Will The New Heaven And Earth Have The Lake Of Fire Present?

[Truth7t7]

I think it’s difficult, with the Bible, to say something always represents something. Does a serpent always represent satan? No. The serpent on the pole did not represent him. Does leaven always represent the teaching of men? I can think of a parable where it doesn’t. Is every mention of water in the entire book of Revelation never about water? No. I kind of think you might agree with me on that last but not sure.

Revelation 21:1 "Sea" represents multitudes of people as shown, as the whore sits upon waters, multitudes of people, Revelation 13:1 the beast will rise out of the "Sea" multitudes of people

As seen below in Ezekiel 47:8-12 you have the (Eternal Kingdom) present, with the river of life flowing into the "Sea"

Yes this is the Eternal kingdom as verse 12 clearly shows the exact description of the river and Tree if life as seen In Revelation 22:1-2

Conclusion: The Eternal Kingdom in the new earth will have the "Sea" present

Ezekiel 47:8-12KJV
8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

Revelation 22:1-2KJV
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think those without eternal life have no awareness until they are raised again and those that have eternal life are aware but without their new body yet. That’s currently where I am on it.
I sometimes don’t know exactly where I currently am until someone like you questions me and I have to write it all down and convey it exactly what is in my head. :) So thanks.

Ok the wicked are in the grave unaware until the resurrection, what happens to this wicked soul after the resurrection?

 

[Truth7t7]

Ah, here’s one of those odd but numerous places where prophecy jumps forward or backward in time at 65:20. I do not believe that verse is new heavens and earth because death is not yet completely done away with, although it sounds greatly improved.
We have a very good and solid example that prophecy does this jumping forward or back with Jesusstanding up to read from Isaiah and stopping in a certain place that seemed like mid sentence.

Direct Question: Do you believe that Isaiah 65:17-20 & Revelation 21:1-5 seen below, are parallel teachings of the same place?

A simple yes/no will do, I fully read your response above, that didnt answer the direct question

Isaiah 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ok the wicked are in the grave unaware until the resurrection, what happens to this wicked soul after the resurrection?

The judgement. Either life or the second death in the lake of fire or outer darkness.
But I don’t think the judgement is as cut and dried as men make it out to be either, because there is some very powerful and strange parables regarding it that have some stunning things in them.

 

[Truth7t7]

The judgement. Either life or the second death in the lake of fire or outer darkness.

You have given 3 options, and reality is there will be one, please pick your #1 option and explain what it means?

James 1:8KJV
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Direct Question: Do you believe that Isaiah 65:17-20 & Revelation 21:1-5 seen below, are parallel teachings of the same place?

A simple yes/no will do, I fully read your response above, that didnt answer the direct question

Isaiah 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

All except for verse 20, yes.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You have given 3 options, and reality is there will be one, please pick your #1 option and explain what it means?

James 1:8KJV
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Lol! No. I won’t pick one when there is more than one in scripture. :)

 

[Truth7t7]

All except for verse 20, yes.

You believe isaiah 65:17-19 & Revelation 21:1-5 is the same place, and you cancel this as being the eternal kingdom in the new heaven and earth as seen in Isaiah 65:17 in the phrase "The Child shall die an hundred years old" as a literal interpretation, and you then apply Isaiah 65:17-20 into a Millennial Kingdom on this earth

No need to beat a dead horse, we strongly disagree

Jesus Is The Lord

Isaiah 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You believe isaiah 65:17-19 & Revelation 21:1-5 is the same place, and you cancel this as being the eternal kingdom in the new haven and earth as seen in Isaiah 65:17 in the phrase "The Child shall die an hundred years old" as a literal interpretation, and you then apply Isaiah 65:17-20 into a Millennial Kingdom on this earth

We Strongly Disagree

Isaiah 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Well then, death and sinning needs to still exist in the new heavens and earth and I do not accept that as true.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, I have to go get ready to go soon and I never want to leave our good conversations in here! Sigh.

 

[Truth7t7]

Lol! No. I won’t pick one when there is more than one in scripture. :)

It's my opinion at this time you desire to hide your true belief in the unsaved wickeds fate, there isnt more than one option as you suggest

It's my "Opinion" your beliefs follow that of 7th Day Adventism, and when asked if you were associated no response was given

7th Day Adventist also believe the soul is in the grave "Unaware" "Sleeping" until the resurrection as you do

They believe the unsaved wicked souls will be given to the lake of fire and destroyed at the resurrection and judgement, ceasing to exist (Annihilation)

 

[Truth7t7]

Well then, death and sinning needs to still exist in the new heavens and earth and I do not accept that as true.

It's your opinion literal death and sinning is seen, you have been shown otherwise, we disagree

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah…I’m not a member of any denomination. No, I’m not sda. I didn’t see you ask me if I was, sorry. I’ve never even attended any church I tried more than two times before I fled it. You are very quick to tag and label people into tidy compartments based on some certain understanding they have. You are also very convinced you understand everything. It’s not until you see you understand very little that you begin to understand more.
Shower time for me. Thank you for the conversation. :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's your opinion literal death and sinning will be seen in the New Heaven Earth, you have been shown otherwise, we disagree

Tsk! No it isn’t. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…

 

[Truth7t7]

Ah…I’m not a member of any denomination. No, I’m not sda. I didn’t see you ask me if I was, sorry. I’ve never even attended any church I tried more than two times before I fled it. You are very quick to tag and label people into tidy compartments based on some certain understanding they have. You are also very convinced you understand everything. It’s not until you see you understand very little that you begin to understand more.
Shower time for me. Thank you for the conversation. :)

Thanks for the response and explanation of you church affiliation, I have no axe to grind with you,we are in debate concerning biblical truths

I mentioned what is fact, your belief that the soul is unaware in the grave is 7th day Adventist doctrine and belief, not found in scripture

You have taught that the "Smoke" of the soul goes up in eternal torment, but not the soul, this would also be in alignment with 7th day Adventist doctrine, as they believe the souls are destroyed in the lake of fire and ceases to exist, not found in scripture

I dont hold anything against you, Its my opinion your belief is in alignment with 7th day Adventist doctrine and I've shown why, I disagree with your beliefs as I have posted

There will be a literal place of conscious eternal torment for the wicked in the lake if fire as you have been shown

Isaiah 65 is the eternal kingdom and not a millennial kingdom as many claim

Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this heaven and earth by fire (The End)

"In Love" Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Tsk! No it isn’t. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…

Correction to my post as seen below

Original Truth7t7: "It's your opinion literal death and sinning will be seen in the New Heaven Earth, you have been shown otherwise, we disagree

Correction Truth7t7: "It's your opinion literal death and sinning is seen, you have been shown otherwise, we disagree"

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I mentioned what is fact, your belief that the soul is unaware in the grave is 7th day Adventist doctrine and belief, not found in scripture

As always, some scriptures seem to say one thing and others seem to say the opposite. Is God merciful or is God severe?

 

[Truth7t7]

As always, some scriptures seem to say one thing and others seem to say the opposite. Is God merciful or is God severe?

God is merciful, that's why he uses human believers to preach and teach his truth, so believers can get their feet on the right path, and not be carried away by false doctrine in deception

Ephesians 4:14KJV
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

 

[stunnedbygrace]

God is merciful, that's why he uses human believers to preach and teach his truth, so believers can get their feet on the right path, and not be carried away by false doctrine in deception

Ephesians 4:14KJV
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

He is both.
Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

 

[Truth7t7]

He is both.
Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.

I agree, I was focused on mercy concerning my response

Yes God is a God of mercy, and a God of judgement

However you dont believe God is severe as you claim, as you deny Gods eternal judgment of the wicked in the lake of fire, it appears that you see only mercy in your belief, smiles!