Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard)

[face2face]

Jesus isn't Yahweh

Correct....where did I say he was?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Today's Lesson: The Protoevangelium

Quote:

The term Protoevangelium refers to the first announcement of the gospel, found in Genesis 3:15. This verse is often seen as the first promise of redemption in the Bible:
In this context, God speaks to the serpent after the fall of Adam and Eve, foretelling the ongoing struggle between humanity and evil. The “Seed of the woman” is interpreted by Christians as a reference to Christ, who would ultimately defeat Satan, though He would suffer in the process12.
This verse is significant because it encapsulates the entire plan of salvation, hinting at the coming of Christ to conquer sin and death, giving His life as the Sacrificial Lamb, whose blood is shed for the remission of sins. It’s a foundational concept in Christian theology, often referred to as the “first gospel” or "first good news"

What is the origin of this word “protoevangelium”…and why was it applied to Gen 3:15?
According to the Catholic Dictionary…..

“PROTOEVANGELIUM
The modern title of the apocryphal Gospel of the Infancy. Also known as the Book of James (the Less). Most likely of Docetist origin, it testifies to the early devotion to Mary, dating from the second century. It is the oldest known apocryphal gospel Protoevangelium (First Gospel) is also applied to the promise of a Redeemer after the Fall. Speaking to the serpent, God said, "I will make you enemies of each other; you and the women; your offspring and her offspring. It will crush your head and you will strike its heel" (Genesis 3:15). Traditionally the woman and her offspring have been understood to mean Mary and her Son.”

So there is the first stumbling block…..it is not of biblical origin. It is of Catholic origin.
I personally accept no teachings of the Catholic Church, which find no basis in Scripture.

It is indeed the Bible’s first prophesy, made immediately after man’s fall into sin. But it remained part of the “sacred mystery” (my·steʹri·on,) that Paul spoke about. (1 Cor 2:7) (also Mark 4:11-12; Matt 13:11; Luke 8:10)

Who were the players in this strange scenario? And when would the ”secret” or “mystery” be revealed to humans, who had wondered for centuries about its meaning? God would reveal it in his due time.

It is “good news” (gospel) for some, but not good news for Adam and his wife who never had the mystery revealed to them. Why? Because they were the cause of the fall. The devil set them up, but he could not force them to do as he wished. He had to deceive the woman, who in turn tempted the man…..Adam was was named as the culprit. (Rom 5:12)

And seeing as how the mystery stayed with God until he revealed it through Christ and his apostles, it’s “foundational concept” was revealed to the first Christians, but lost in the apostasy that Jesus said was to follow. The “weeds” of Christendom, mainly Roman Catholicism, twisted its meaning all out of shape, and introduced concepts for which there is no foundation in any part of the Bible.

We know that the “heel” wound was the execution of the Christ….one that temporarily disabled him, but from which he recovered when, as promised, his Father resurrected him.

The fatal “head” wound to be delivered to the devil, is still a thousand years away…..and will only be dealt when God has finished with his adversary, after the 1000 years he will have spent in his dark prison. He will be let loose “for a little while” (Rev 20:1-3) to try and repeat his first success with now sinless humans. He will use his tried and tested methods, and he will succeed in persuading many to side with him, but after their manifestation in following the lead of the devil, God will despatch them all, where they will be completely eliminated from existence…counted unworthy to become permanent citizens of God’s Kingdom, which will be the only rulership over the human race for the rest of eternity.

The only reason that God has kept satan in existence all this time, is because this evil being who made himself “the devil” has no compunction in creating foul thinking and evil deeds for humans to perpetrate on each other, whilst he watches on in glee at the depths of depravity that can be manifested among them. The word “INHUMAN” is often used when this depravity is carried out, because it is not normal or natural for humans to sink to such depths.…but the devil implants those ideas and only wicked humans carry them out. It separates the ones that will remain faithful to God, (no matter what) from the ones who only think of themselves.

So it is important to understand this prophesy and how its fulfillment will take humanity back to the beginning, where a sinless human race will be delivered by God to continue to live on this earth that he so lovingly created for us to enjoy……once the devil is gone and humans have seen first hand where a knowledge of evil can lead them, who in their right mind would ever want to disrupt God’s purpose again?
The precedents set will last for all eternity, meaning that no rebel will ever be permitted to derail God’s plans for the future again.

 

[face2face]

What is the origin of this word “protoevangelium”…and why was it applied to Gen 3:15?
According to the Catholic Dictionary…..

Neither do I...though you are yet to understand the Covenant made with Adam and the Covering Process which ratified the Covenant.

At the present time you have a god who is merciless, who failed to deal with sin and made no covenant with the first pair.

Put plainly Jane - you have no foundation to your beliefs at all

F2F

 

[face2face]

Neither do I...though you are yet to understand the Covenant made with Adam and the Covering Process which ratified the Covenant.

At the present time you have a god who is merciless, who failed to deal with sin and made no covenant with the first pair.

Put plainly Jane - you have no foundation to your beliefs at all

F2F

@TheHC tuff position to be in! What we are seeing is no less than 4 members who cannot explain how God dealt with the sin of A&E - in fact, it seems "condemnation" was the path of lest resistant for your community.

And trying to show you the divine principles has only been met with resistance.

Sad...but true

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The forbidden tree placed where it had to be confronted often.

Why was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
placed in the center (midst) of the orchard (garden) of Eden?

Interestingly, Adam and Eve had to be deceived to "eat thereof".

It seems they had no intention of eating from the forbidden tree.

What was going on here?

Whether you take the story as literal or figurative, it begs many questions.

could give you tons of opinion given teh bible is silent about the why. But the sure answer is- "that is where God decided to place it". Everything else is conjecture.

 

[St. SteVen]

could give you tons of opinion given teh bible is silent about the why. But the sure answer is- "that is where God decided to place it". Everything else is conjecture.

Agree.
But was the placement of the tree meaningless, or meaningful.

Imagine telling your young children that they can play with any toy in the nursery except one that you placed in the middle of the floor.
Video cameras were set to record what happened and then you left the room. What do you suppose would happen?

[

 

[face2face]

Agree.
But was the placement of the tree meaningless, or meaningful.

Imagine telling your young children that they can play with any toy in the nursery except one that you placed in the middle of the floor.
Video cameras were set to record what happened and then you left the room. What do you suppose would happen?

[

God knew Adam & Eve would sin that's why the consequence (2nd tree) was placed in the Garden. The Lord Jesus Christ was not plan B, he was always Plan A.

Mortal earthy flesh nature will always sin!

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Mortal earthy flesh nature will always sin!

That being the case, answer the topic question.

Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard) ???​

[

 

[face2face]

That being the case, answer the topic question.

Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard) ???​

[

How can God place a commandment against the fruit of that tree if the tree isnt there?

11:6 Now without faith it is impossible to please him, for the one who approaches God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. Heb 11:6

This is the premise of all He does - the first pair must have their faith tested - without faith its impossible to please him

F2F

 

[Wick Stick]

The forbidden tree placed where it had to be confronted often.

Why was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
placed in the center (midst) of the orchard (garden) of Eden?

Interestingly, Adam and Eve had to be deceived to "eat thereof".

It seems they had no intention of eating from the forbidden tree.

What was going on here?

Whether you take the story as literal or figurative, it begs many questions.

I take this story as figurative, but once you de-code the symbols, it tells literal history. As I figure it, the trees here represent different kings or kingdoms. This interpretation comes from Ezekiel 31:

Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs. The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

Why are there multiple trees here? Because multiple empires were vying for control of the area.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Agree.
But was the placement of the tree meaningless, or meaningful.

Imagine telling your young children that they can play with any toy in the nursery except one that you placed in the middle of the floor.
Video cameras were set to record what happened and then you left the room. What do you suppose would happen?

[

Well teh Bible gives no clue as to if it was meaningful or not so for us to spend time pondering this is an endeavor in futility. We cannot know if we hit the right answer or not until we get to heaven, for all we have is our "best guess".

 

[dad]

The forbidden tree placed where it had to be confronted often.

Why was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
placed in the center (midst) of the orchard (garden) of Eden?

Interestingly, Adam and Eve had to be deceived to "eat thereof".

It seems they had no intention of eating from the forbidden tree.

What was going on here?

Whether you take the story as literal or figurative, it begs many questions.

There was a clear choice for us. Since that is the or one of the central reasons man was created, it makes sense. Jesus wants people who choose Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

What is the origin of this word “protoevangelium”…and why was it applied to Gen 3:15?
According to the Catholic Dictionary…..

“PROTOEVANGELIUM
The modern title of the apocryphal Gospel of the Infancy. Also known as the Book of James (the Less). Most likely of Docetist origin, it testifies to the early devotion to Mary, dating from the second century. It is the oldest known apocryphal gospel Protoevangelium (First Gospel) is also applied to the promise of a Redeemer after the Fall. Speaking to the serpent, God said, "I will make you enemies of each other; you and the women; your offspring and her offspring. It will crush your head and you will strike its heel" (Genesis 3:15). Traditionally the woman and her offspring have been understood to mean Mary and her Son.”

So there is the first stumbling block…..it is not of biblical origin. It is of Catholic origin.
I personally accept no teachings of the Catholic Church, which find no basis in Scripture.

This is funny Aunty Jane
First you quote from a Catholic Dictionary,,,,
to explain something that happened in the Garden.

Then you proclaim that you accept nothing the CC teaches.

ALMOST EVERYTHING the CC teaches is biblical except for some recent dogma.

In case you didn't know...
ALL DENOMINATIONS teach something or other that is not 100% biblical - although some fragment of the teaching can be found in the bible.

It is indeed the Bible’s first prophesy, made immediately after man’s fall into sin. But it remained part of the “sacred mystery” (my·steʹri·on,) that Paul spoke about. (1 Cor 2:7) (also Mark 4:11-12; Matt 13:11; Luke 8:10)

Now you claim that it is indeed prophecy....the covering from an animal - the first sacrifice
and
that Mary's children and satan's children would clash.

Who were the players in this strange scenario? And when would the ”secret” or “mystery” be revealed to humans, who had wondered for centuries about its meaning? God would reveal it in his due time.

It is “good news” (gospel) for some, but not good news for Adam and his wife who never had the mystery revealed to them. Why? Because they were the cause of the fall. The devil set them up, but he could not force them to do as he wished. He had to deceive the woman, who in turn tempted the man…..Adam was was named as the culprit. (Rom 5:12)

And seeing as how the mystery stayed with God until he revealed it through Christ and his apostles, it’s “foundational concept” was revealed to the first Christians, but lost in the apostasy that Jesus said was to follow. The “weeds” of Christendom, mainly Roman Catholicism, twisted its meaning all out of shape, and introduced concepts for which there is no foundation in any part of the Bible.

Could you post some?
Are you aware that if it were not for the CC, you wouldn't be posting on this forum today?
Give some credit where credit is due.

We know that the “heel” wound was the execution of the Christ….one that temporarily disabled him, but from which he recovered when, as promised, his Father resurrected him.

The fatal “head” wound to be delivered to the devil, is still a thousand years away…..and will only be dealt when God has finished with his adversary, after the 1000 years he will have spent in his dark prison. He will be let loose “for a little while” (Rev 20:1-3) to try and repeat his first success with now sinless humans. He will use his tried and tested methods, and he will succeed in persuading many to side with him, but after their manifestation in following the lead of the devil, God will despatch them all, where they will be completely eliminated from existence…counted unworthy to become permanent citizens of God’s Kingdom, which will be the only rulership over the human race for the rest of eternity.

The only reason that God has kept satan in existence all this time, is because this evil being who made himself “the devil” has no compunction in creating foul thinking and evil deeds for humans to perpetrate on each other, whilst he watches on in glee at the depths of depravity that can be manifested among them. The word “INHUMAN” is often used when this depravity is carried out, because it is not normal or natural for humans to sink to such depths.…but the devil implants those ideas and only wicked humans carry them out. It separates the ones that will remain faithful to God, (no matter what) from the ones who only think of themselves.

WHY is satan still in existance?
I think I missed your reason...

So it is important to understand this prophesy and how its fulfillment will take humanity back to the beginning, where a sinless human race will be delivered by God to continue to live on this earth that he so lovingly created for us to enjoy……once the devil is gone and humans have seen first hand where a knowledge of evil can lead them, who in their right mind would ever want to disrupt God’s purpose again?
The precedents set will last for all eternity, meaning that no rebel will ever be permitted to derail God’s plans for the future again.

Of course.

 

[GodsGrace]

That being the case, answer the topic question.

Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard) ???​

[

Apparently SS you have something in mind.
Here's my thinking...based on life in general....

The tree was placed in the center of the Garden so that it could be visible and accessable.
If it was hidden away somewhere, Adam may never have found it - or, at the very least, it would have been out of his thoughts.

God made a Covenant with Adam....I'd say that God wanted Adam to obey the commandment of the Edenic Covenant...
How could God have the reason for either accepting Adam or banishing him from the Garden if Adam did not make his choice himself?

So the tree was in the center. Just as God is in the center of our life and of this world -even for those that do not wish to accept Him or the Christian paradigm. On an every day basis we're called to choose either good or evil. The choices are always before us, just as the tree was always before Adam.

And, just as in our every day life, satan used the tree, just as satan tempts us using all kinds of things that are in our every day life.
So it had to be in the middle - visible and accessible....

As are our every day choices for either good or evil.
Romans 6:16 is a pivotal verse for me.
16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

 

[GodsGrace]

Neither do I...though you are yet to understand the Covenant made with Adam and the Covering Process which ratified the Covenant.

At the present time you have a god who is merciless, who failed to deal with sin and made no covenant with the first pair.

Put plainly Jane - you have no foundation to your beliefs at all

F2F

What ratified the Covenant?
And are you talking about the Edenic or the Adamic Covenant?

 

[St. SteVen]

There was a clear choice for us. Since that is the or one of the central reasons man was created, it makes sense. Jesus wants people who choose Him.

What does Jesus have to do with the placement of the tree in the garden? (orchard)

[

 

[dad]

What does Jesus have to do with the placement of the tree in the garden? (orchard)

[

Jesus created us. That is a reason. He had reasons in mind, so that is a reason. One of those reasons was choice. To choose Jesus or Satan, the tree of life or the other one. Jesus has everything to do with creation.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This is funny Aunty Jane
First you quote from a Catholic Dictionary,,,,
to explain something that happened in the Garden.

Then you proclaim that you accept nothing the CC teaches.

Actually, I gave you the Catholic definition of the word “Protoevangelium” which is defined as…. Traditionally the woman and her offspring have been understood to mean Mary and her Son.”

So Catholic tradition is responsible for this definition, not the Bible.
Genesis 3:15 has nothing to do with Mary, who is not the source of Jesus’ life, but the means through which he was born as a human.

ALMOST EVERYTHING the CC teaches is biblical except for some recent dogma.

My research shows otherwise. 99% of Catholic doctrine is not scripturally based, which is the main reason why they claim “sola scriptura” is invalid. If they had to substantiate all of their doctrines scripturally, they would have difficulty finding any of them as teachings of Jesus Christ.

In case you didn't know...
ALL DENOMINATIONS teach something or other that is not 100% biblical - although some fragment of the teaching can be found in the bible.

The whole of Christendom falls under that definition….but the parable that Jesus gave about the “wheat and the weeds” (tares) explains that a counterfeit “Christianity” would be sown by the devil, in “the world”, (not just the church). The effect is global. That explains why we see so many denominations in all nations, claiming to teach Bible truth, but in most cases accepting the flawed foundation of Roman Catholicism…..
Whatever you build on a faulty foundation, will not stand.

Now you claim that it is indeed prophecy....the covering from an animal - the first sacrifice
and
that Mary's children and satan's children would clash.

I made no such claim…..why would I, as I do not believe that any animals were sacrificed to produce clothing for Adam and his wife. There is no scripture that say so, and no sacrifice was ever made by either of them for the sin they committed. As sinless beings, there was no basis upon which to forgive them.
The first mention of sacrifice was in connection with Cain and Abel, which resulted in Abel’s murder by his jealous brother.

The animosity between “the seed of the woman” and “the seed of the devil” that was prophesied, is not what you have stated. We first have to identify the real “mother” of Jesus Christ…..he did not originate on earth, but came from heaven, to be born as a sinless human in order to redeem the human race. Mary is not the woman. His Father had a figurative “wife”.

Although Jehovah honorably fulfilled his role as “Husband”, the nation of Israel became an unfaithful wife. “As a wife has treacherously gone from her companion,” Jehovah said, “so you, O house of Israel, have dealt treacherously with me.” (Jer 3:20) God accused Israel of ”adultery”….like an unfaithful wife who sought to betray her husband with another man, Israel committed spiritual adultery in he unfaithfulness to her “husband”.

Jehovah uses family relationships—husband and wife, mother and children—to convey profound spiritual truths because such symbols are meaningful to humans….we understand those relationships.
Ancient Jerusalem on Mount Zion, when it was a city faithful to Jehovah and his worship, was a prophetic picture of the spiritual Jerusalem on the heavenly Mount Zion….”the Jerusalem above” whom Paul said was their “mother”. Since Jesus called them “brothers”, they have the same mother.
Gal 4:22-26…
”….it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the servant girl and one by the free woman; 23 but the one by the servant girl was actually born through natural descent and the other by the free woman through a promise. 24 These things may be taken as a symbolic drama; for these women mean two covenants, the one from Mount Siʹnai, which bears children for slavery and which is Haʹgar. 25 Now Haʹgar means Siʹnai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.”

The Scriptures themselves tell us who the “woman” is…..
”Jerusalem above” is in the position of a figurative “wife” to Jehovah, the great Father and Life-Giver. When earthly Jerusalem was used as the chief city of God’s chosen nation, it, too, was spoken of as a woman, married to God, being tied to him by holy bonds in a covenant relationship. (Isa 54:5)
So it stood for, or was representative of, the entire congregation of God’s human servants. “Jerusalem above” therefore represents the entire congregation of Jehovah’s loyal spirit servants In heaven, where Jesus originated.

Could you post some?
Are you aware that if it were not for the CC, you wouldn't be posting on this forum today?
Give some credit where credit is due.

I give no credit at all to the RCC…..It was the brainchild of a very astute politician, who sought to unite his divided empire by fusing together pagan Roman concepts and celebrations with weakened Christianity, and apparently, it was accepted without much protest…..those who did protest were not heeded….weak voices in the wilderness, drowned out by the weight of opposition to the truth. The power of the church resulted in much corruption, as Jesus and the apostles said it would.

Those who teach the existence of a god who is nothing like the “one God” of Israel (Deut 6:4) taught by Jesus himself….immortality of the soul, which is of pagan origin, (Eccl 9:5, 10)….and a hell of eternal conscious torture for the wicked, also borrowed from pagan ideas, have no basis in Scripture at all. (Rev 20:12-15) And since when was “Pontifex Maximus” a “Christian” title for a pope?
None of these teachings came from Jesus or his apostles…but most permeate Christendom as a whole. Where can one find “the only true God” in that divided mess? (John 17:3)

WHY is satan still in existance?
I think I missed your reason...

Jehovah hasn’t finished with him yet. The devil wanted to “be like God” and gain the worship of the human race, so God allowed him to do his best to prove that he was a better ruler for mankind. (Luke 4:5-7) He slandered his Creator and now we are in the process of being “witnesses”, either for the prosecution…or for the defense….by the stance we take, we will prove which side we support.

It was the devil who wanted to be “the god of this world”.…(2 Cor 4:3-4)…but he has the ability to “blind the minds of unbelievers”…..which means that none of the senses, which can give the minds of those unbelievers a chance to gain access to the truth, will acknowledge it. The darkness of the devil’s rule will never allow that truth to “shine through”. They will believe that they are Christians in good standing….yet complete rejection awaits them. (Matt 7:21-23) “Few” will be found on the difficult road to life. (Matt 7:13-14)

Only God can dispel that darkness….no one can come to the Father except through the son….and no one can come to the son unless it is granted by the Father (John 6:44; 65)….do we understand what that means?

 

[MA2444]

The forbidden tree placed where it had to be confronted often.

Why was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
placed in the center (midst) of the orchard (garden) of Eden?

Interestingly, Adam and Eve had to be deceived to "eat thereof".
It seems they had no intention of eating from the forbidden tree.

What was going on here?
Whether you take the story as literal or figurative, it begs many questions.

I think it's a nutty question. It had to go somewhere. Eve would have been deceived even if it was way over on the side of the Garden. So it was in the center of the (orchard), so what? Is it significant that it was in the center of it?

They have banks in the center of my town, I see them every time I have to go somewhere. I do not have to keep telling myself, dont rob it, dont rob it! It was the girl fault man. But Adam loved her so didnt want to see her get into trouble all alone. I guess Eve didnt get the common sense gene from Adam? That's why satan was able to appeal to Eve's vanity and trick her.

Putting one tree out there that they couldnt eat wasnt a set up. If there was a set up, it was in the woman! He puts a tree out there and says you have one rule, dont eat from this one tree...and then he makes Adam a woman so beautiful that Adam simps to her, and her woth no common sense, lol! There's your setup!

 

[face2face]

What ratified the Covenant?
And are you talking about the Edenic or the Adamic Covenant?

The sacrifice of an animal and the clothing / covering of the first pair.