Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard)

[face2face]

Those "in Christ" will be justified by faith.

 

[face2face]

Those "In Christ" will be made right or justified because being in Christ can receive the promises

 

[face2face]

Those "in Christ" is based on selection.

Simeon has explained how God first concerned himself to select from among the Gentiles a people for his name. Ac 15:14.

James' opening sentence to the gathering is a reflection of the Book of Exodus (ch. 1) when God drew His "son" out of the oppression of Egypt (as Abraham, their father, was drawn out of Ur, Gen 12:1; cp. Josh. 24:14), showing that God's selection work in former times is now expanded to the Gentiles.

@St. SteVen, this selecting work has been fully shown you from both book ends and only those in Christ can be saved.

The first work of God was repeated in the deliverance of a family of Gentiles from the oppression of sin in Acts 10:34-38; 11:14. Simeon's testimony expressed the selection by God of a people for His Name, in four stages:

Visitation, Invitation, Separation and Dedication...all of which are revealed in this verse!

I understand it's the selection which he you issue with, however salvation is the calling of God. Individuals are summoned to respond to His will; and in that sense, the gospel is not a personal choice, but an injunction to be obeyed, for God "now commands all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).

From what I understand of your beliefs repenteance is not required by your god?

The truth is God is taking individuals, as a parent determines to have a child. It is the act of the parent, not that of the child; therefore, having been called by the understanding of the gospel, a person must respond.

The seperation is seen in the word "among" from among the Gentiles God is calling His Children

The dedication is seen in the pupose of His calling - "For His name"

The Family name was declared to identify the purpose of the Father in Exo 3:14; as an object of desire Isa. 26:8; to be feared and considered (Mal. 3:16); to be manifested to others (Jn. 17:6); a protection against enemies (v. 11); as a basis for true love (v. 26).

I understand you do not look this closely at the Word, while others do and have matured in their understanding of God and His plan and purpose with the earth.

The command still stands "now commands all men every where to repent" and when Christ returns he will convince the earth of their sin and reveal righteouness and judgement to all men & women.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, all are in Adam before they are in Christ, but not all are in Christ come Judgment Day, these being reprobate silver.

Those in Christ are NO LONGER in Adam? Will we all not die?

Eph 2:1 You were made alive when you were dead in transgressions and sins,

(Jer 6:30) Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.
(Rom 1:28) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
(2Ti 3:8) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
(Tit 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Reprobation is God's choice, not ours. "... God gave them over to a reprobate mind..." - Rom. 1:28

[

 

[Stumpmaster]

Reprobation is God's choice, not ours. "... God gave them over to a reprobate mind..." - Rom. 1:28

Too bad once God gives reprobates over to their own mind.

None of us had any choice as to our physical birth and our hereditary characteristics, and my experience tells me I had no choice but to lie, cheat, steal, lust and disregard Biblical morality when my sinful nature was in the driving seat. Nature and Nurture are both determining factors when it comes to making choices when it is within our power to make them.

I believe it was inevitable that Adam and Eve gained experiential knowledge of moral failure and that this knowledge would become a feature of God's previously perfect Creation. Thankfully in His foreknowledge of this God made provision for it to be remedied through the incarnation of Christ.

I also believe that having been regenerated by the Holy Spirit we do have to make a conscious choice to abide in Christ and continue in the faith, which is what many NT exhortations deal with.

Heb 2:1-3 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. (2) For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; (3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

The vexed question of Predestined Reprobation whereby it is argued that the likes of Satan, Judas and the ultimate endtimes False Prophet are doomed from the moment they come into existence, is up there with all the other freewill/predestination morsels to be chewed on.

 

[face2face]

Those in Christ are NO LONGER in Adam? Will we all not die?

Yes, and no.

Death for those "in" Christ is spoken of as being asleep.

But now hath Christ been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of them that are asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20

Many more verses confirm the same

F2F

 

[face2face]

Too bad once God gives reprobates over to their own mind.

None of us had any choice as to our physical birth and our hereditary characteristics, and my experience tells me I had no choice but to lie, cheat, steal, lust and disregard Biblical morality when my sinful nature was in the driving seat. Nature and Nurture are both determining factors when it comes to making choices when it is within our power to make them.

I believe it was inevitable that Adam and Eve gained experiential knowledge of moral failure and that this knowledge would become a feature of God's previously perfect Creation. Thankfully in His foreknowledge of this God made provision for it to be remedied through the incarnation of Christ.

I also believe that having been regenerated by the Holy Spirit we do have to make a conscious choice to abide in Christ and continue in the faith, which is what many NT exhortations deal with.

Heb 2:1-3 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. (2) For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; (3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

The vexed question of Predestined Reprobation whereby it is argued that the likes of Satan, Judas and the ultimate endtimes False Prophet are doomed from the moment they come into existence, is up there with all the other freewill/predestination morsels to be chewed on.

I agree with everything but this comment "remedied through the incarnation of Christ" which is nowhere taught in the Bible.

Hebrews 2:14-17 & Romans 8:1-3 teaches you the truth - leave your Nicene creeds behind and find the true atonement

F2F

 

[Stumpmaster]

I agree with everything but this comment "remedied through the incarnation of Christ" which is nowhere taught in the Bible.

Hebrews 2:14-17 & Romans 8:1-3 teaches you the truth - leave your Nicene creeds behind and find the true atonement

F2F

Huh?

Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming to him and says, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

1Pe 1:17-21 And if you call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to the work of each one, pass the time of your earthly residence in fear, (18) knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers, (19) but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; (20) indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you, (21) those believing in God through Him, He who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope might be in God.

 

[face2face]

Huh?

Joh 1:29 The next day John sees Jesus coming to him and says, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

1Pe 1:17-21 And if you call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to the work of each one, pass the time of your earthly residence in fear, (18) knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, silver or gold, from your vain manner of life handed down from your fathers, (19) but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot; (20) indeed having been foreknown before the foundation of the world, but revealed in the last times for you, (21) those believing in God through Him, He who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope might be in God.

Huh?

You provided two quotes that speak to a lamb? not an incarnate god?

Not sure what you wanted this reply to imply but it didn't hit the mark.

God doesnt give God glory, faith and hope - but He does to the Son of Man.

F2F

 

[Stumpmaster]

Huh?

You provided two quotes that speak to a lamb? not an incarnate god?

Not sure what you wanted this reply to imply but it didn't hit the mark.

God doesnt give God glory, faith and hope - but He does to the Son of Man.

F2F

A Lamb that is the only one who can open the Seven-Sealed Scroll.

Today's Lesson: The Protoevangelium

Quote:

The term Protoevangelium refers to the first announcement of the gospel, found in Genesis 3:15. This verse is often seen as the first promise of redemption in the Bible:

“And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.”

In this context, God speaks to the serpent after the fall of Adam and Eve, foretelling the ongoing struggle between humanity and evil. The “Seed of the woman” is interpreted by Christians as a reference to Christ, who would ultimately defeat Satan, though He would suffer in the process12.
This verse is significant because it encapsulates the entire plan of salvation, hinting at the coming of Christ to conquer sin and death, giving His life as the Sacrificial Lamb, whose blood is shed for the remission of sins. It’s a foundational concept in Christian theology, often referred to as the “first gospel” or "first good news"3.[Copilot etc]

 

[face2face]

A Lamb that is the only one who can open the Seven-Sealed Scroll.

You mean man right? The only man who can open the Seven-Sealed Scroll.

But one man could and how was he defined?

"The Lion of the tribe of Judah"

He is not God - The "root" of David is Yahweh, for all his promised greatness stems from God.

But how can Christ be identified with Yahweh?

In the sense of manifestation. Christ is represented as both "root: and offspring of David" (Rev. 22:16). As "God manifest in the flesh" (1 Tim. 3:16), he is the Root of David; and as the son of Mary, he is his offspring (Luke 1:32-33; Rom. 1:3).

Even in his glorified state Christ still understand his origins are both of God and Man!

“I am the root and the offspring of David,” says Jesus (Revelation 22:16).

Today's Lesson: The Protoevangelium

Quote:

The term Protoevangelium refers to the first announcement of the gospel, found in Genesis 3:15. This verse is often seen as the first promise of redemption in the Bible:

This is true however the JW's do not recognised Genesis 3:15 as the Gospel preached to Adam. I am yet to take them through the importance of this Covenant

In this context, God speaks to the serpent after the fall of Adam and Eve, foretelling the ongoing struggle between humanity and evil. The “Seed of the woman” is interpreted by Christians as a reference to Christ, who would ultimately defeat Satan, though He would suffer in the process12.
This verse is significant because it encapsulates the entire plan of salvation, hinting at the coming of Christ to conquer sin and death, giving His life as the Sacrificial Lamb, whose blood is shed for the remission of sins. It’s a foundational concept in Christian theology, often referred to as the “first gospel” or "first good news"3.[Copilot etc]

You are referring to the enmity between the seed of the woman (Christ / Bride) and the seed of the Serpent (Carnal thinking / Flesh)

And I agree wholeheardily Genesis 3:15 contains the entire plan and pupose of God with the inhabitnants of the earth @Keiw

Once you understand how God through Christ destroyed and crushed the head of the serpent in the body of His Son you will draw closer to the pearl of great price!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Stumpmaster might I add it was Christ's victory over the flesh which opened a new phase in the Divine purpose (Matt 28:18; 1 Pet. 3:22).

It was the Masters sinnlessness (obedience) which qualified him to open the Scroll - it was a victorious Lamb stumpmaster and not just a Lamb but a resurrected Lamb - the first of his kind in this creation! Firstfruits of them that sleep in the earth, firstbegotten of the Father.

F2F

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic alert.

A Word for the church (four actually) concerning worship.

My wife shared a point from her devotional reading this morning. "You praise until the spirit of worship comes, you worship until the glory comes, then you stand in the glory." - Ruth Ward Heflin - Praise - Worship - Glory - Stand What it means to me. Praise is the obedient action that we use...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Taken]

Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard)

The particular Trees…
* Tree of Life…was in the midst of the Garden;
Gen 2:9
* Tree of Good and Evil…was in the midst of the Garden:
Gen 3:3

Midst…indicating each tree was openly visible…likely surmising from historical facts….Paths, roads, etc. lead to and from the center of importance, city, town, in this case particular trees in a garden.

The WHY…is Because of the “importance” of each of those Trees.

The More IN DEPTH WHY…is Because of:
1) Gods’ early revealing of HIS Divisions …
(Light/Dark, Up/Down, With/Without, Life/Death…and the consequences thereof of either choice, according to ones choosing)
2) The FREE”WILL”, of every individuals option TO Choose, and subjection to the consequence there-after.

God IS JUST….and even when an individual chooses an Option with a Negative consequence….
“As long as that individual IS still bodily Alive, that individual has an opportunity to ask for forgiveness and opt to choose that with a Favorable, Positive consequence.”

Interestingly…when Adam and Eve decided (reasoning irrelevant)…to eat from the forbidden tree, with negative consequences….
….ALSO in the midst of the Garden…within their eyesight and physical closeness…WAS the TREE of LIFE….

As Adam and Eve were being sent out of the Garden….(their negative consequence…ie. separation from God…spiritually equated with non-physical Death)….

WHAT??
They COULD HAVE reached out, plucked the fruit from the Tree of Life, Ate it…AND?
Never AGAIN would become Separated from God!

HOWEVER…
They did not choose to exercise their freewill and take advantage of that option…at that time.

Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It is the SAME broad spectrum circumstances revealed over and over and over throughout the ancient days, the historical days and to this day regarding particular individual men….

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

Because they do not want to?
Those who do not know God, did not WANT to?

As one who has been witnessing about Jehovah and his Kingdom for most of my life, and conversing with people of all faiths, it is clear that those who worship false deities, do not want to know about the God that I worship. They are happy to keep worshipping their own gods. They see no need to transfer their affections to another god of whom they know nothing…..and because there is only one of him, they often see him as inferior to the many gods whom they believe take care of various aspects of their lives, as long as they follow their rituals and repeat their prayers.

The one outstanding thing about Jehovah is that he is nothing like the false gods that satan has invented.

In craving the worship that he can receive from flawed humans, the devil made sure that these false deities were nothing like the God from whom he defected. So most of the false worship he receives by default is exclusively his. OTOH, he also made sure that the false god of the apostate Christians resembled the true God in only small ways, disguising him and presenting him as the one described in their Scripture……but that god is a counterfeit in so many ways.

The God of the Jews was a singular entity….unlike the religions of the nations, genuine monotheism formed the basis of their entire belief system.
Christendom invented a singular god, but in three different ”gods” who inhabit one “head”……nowhere is this god found in the Bible……in fact, their god did not resemble the God of the Jews in any way. This god can talk to himself as another person, can pray to himself, and somehow be his own mediator, (which means that there is no real “go between” to intercede for us because he has taken up both roles) A mediator is one who facilitates communication between two estranged parties…..can God be his own mediator?

Is he his own servant, (which again means he is both master and slave) (Acts 4:27)

And can he be his own High Priest…..(which puts him in the role of the served as well as the servant in guiding his people in worship.) Nowhere in Scripture are both roles applied to God….only to those serving him.

So the god of Christendom is an enigma….a mysterious Being who uses human terminology to describe himself and his relationship to his “firstborn” son, so that we can understand why Jesus calls him “OUR Father”. (John 20:17)

If God is a multiple personality, then those who manifest such a condition among us humans are the only ones truly created in his image and likeness…..yet we call it a “disorder”…..something that needs medical treatment.

The God of the Jews is the God of Jesus…the one he taught us how to worship when the Jews went completely off track, as they often did. The Jewish leadership failed to recognize their own savior and had him put to death. Why? Because he did not present himself the way they thought he should. He did not elevate them, but exposed them as frauds and hypocrites.…(Matt ch 23)…hence their intense hatred.

Even after his resurrection, Jesus still calls his Father “my God”. (Rev 3:12)

So unless we really “know” Jehovah and his son (John 17:3) as they present themselves in Scripture, we will find ourselves in the same situation as those apostate Jews back in the first century…..alienated and lost, failing to understand much of anything in God’s purpose for putting us here on planet Earth in the first place….

 

[St. SteVen]

As one who has been witnessing about Jehovah and his Kingdom for most of my life, and conversing with people of all faiths, it is clear that those who worship false deities, do not want to know about the God that I worship. They are happy to keep worshipping their own gods.

That saw cuts both ways. (tribalism)

[

 

[Stumpmaster]

Once you understand how God through Christ destroyed and crushed the head of the serpent in the body of His Son you will draw closer to the pearl of great price!

And you also . . .

 

[Aunty Jane]

Those in Christ are NO LONGER in Adam? Will we all not die?

All remain “in Adam” whilst ever we are in imperfect flesh…..and yet it is not the flesh that makes us imperfect…it is the sin in the flesh as Paul stated…

Romans 7: 14-25…..
“For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”

This is true of all mankind…..until that sin is completely removed, none of us will be able to stand before God, whose original purpose was for mankind to inhabit a carefully prepared earth as their permanent home….with no sin, and therefore no sickness, old age or death. Everlasting life in paradise on earth was God‘s first purpose for his human creation….and that never went away. (Isa 55:11)
Living forever on earth was God’s intention for us…and he provided the means to extend life indefinitely. (Gen 3:22-24)

Reprobation is God's choice, not ours. "... God gave them over to a reprobate mind..." - Rom. 1:28

No, it is God’s choice to allow some to be who they really are, and whom he knows to be incorrigible and not redeemable.
By allowing them to be who they are, he does what he did to Pharaoh in allowing his proud heart to remain stubborn. It resulted in his undoing.…not only did he lose his firstborn son (a ‘deity’ who would have succeeded his father as King) but his actions took his entire army to death in the Red Sea.

What are the lessons? What is God teaching us by his permission of evil?….a knowledge of which he tried to keep from his earthly children. If only our first parents had remained obedient, death would never have touched us, nor the pain of living in an evil world, ruled by his adversary.

Unless we understand why, nothing will make any cohesive sense. The Bible is one story…what we lost in Genesis due to disobedience, is restored in Revelation. Everything in between is how God gets us there, whilst keeping the gift of free will at the forefront. We all have choices….and they should be informed ones.

 

[Aunty Jane]

That saw cuts both ways. (tribalism)

All will be happy serving the god(s) of their choice…..but only those who serve the true God will “remain” living when the disobedient ones are removed.

1 John 2:17…
”Furthermore, the world is passing away and so is its desire, but the one who does the will of God remains forever.”

That word “remains” (menō) is often translated “lives” but it means to “remain” as Strongs says…

“to remain, abide

1. in reference to place
   
   1. to sojourn, tarry
   2. not to depart
      
      1. to continue to be present
      2. to be held, kept, continually
2. in reference to time
   
   1. to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure
      
      1. of persons, to survive, live.”

So it doesn’t just mean to “live forever”, but to continue to live on the earth forever, where God first put us.

Not all humans have the heavenly calling (Heb 3:1) because only a selected few are chosen for a role in heaven with Christ….as “kings and priests” and they are chosen by God. (Rev 20:6)
They will rule over redeemed humans on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)

 

[Keiw]

You mean man right? The only man who can open the Seven-Sealed Scroll.

But one man could and how was he defined?

"The Lion of the tribe of Judah"

He is not God - The "root" of David is Yahweh, for all his promised greatness stems from God.

But how can Christ be identified with Yahweh?

In the sense of manifestation. Christ is represented as both "root: and offspring of David" (Rev. 22:16). As "God manifest in the flesh" (1 Tim. 3:16), he is the Root of David; and as the son of Mary, he is his offspring (Luke 1:32-33; Rom. 1:3).

Even in his glorified state Christ still understand his origins are both of God and Man!

“I am the root and the offspring of David,” says Jesus (Revelation 22:16).


This is true however the JW's do not recognised Genesis 3:15 as the Gospel preached to Adam. I am yet to take them through the importance of this Covenant

You are referring to the enmity between the seed of the woman (Christ / Bride) and the seed of the Serpent (Carnal thinking / Flesh)

And I agree wholeheardily Genesis 3:15 contains the entire plan and pupose of God with the inhabitnants of the earth @Keiw

Once you understand how God through Christ destroyed and crushed the head of the serpent in the body of His Son you will draw closer to the pearl of great price!

F2F

Jesus isn't Yahweh