Why I Would Not Like Jesus

[Jericho]

Deeper truths can't always be grasped right away, especially when it comes to spiritual matters. Jesus said a lot of things about his death and resurrection that his apostles didn't understand at the time, though they would later. I believe this was strategic. 1 Corinthians 2:8 says, "None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." Rulers can have both a political and spiritual context. Jesus had to keep some things veiled, so as to not tip his hand to the enemy.

In the context of Matthew 16, the place might have been before his audience humbly said they didn't understand. In another place in Scripture Jesus was mocked for saying a dead girl was 'sleeping' but he eventually admitted the simple truth that she was dead. He didn't do that in Matthew 16.

Was it just for the audience or was it also for us today, two thousand years later? I think it was also the latter. Jesus said a lot of things that didn't always make sense at the time, but what does that do? It caused them and us to ask questions and search for the deeper meaning. Sometimes, Jesus answered a question with a question. While this might drive those with analytical minds crazy, it also leads to greater insights over time. Jesus very much employed the Socratic method in this regard.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus had to keep some things veiled, so as to not tip his hand to the enemy.

Agreed. One thing this post implies that overly spiritualized Christians today don't want to acknowledge is that there is a spiritual war going on now, where deception is a vital tool for both sides as it is in any war. (Silly to pretend deception/lie is not included with "keep some things veiled." It is the same thing).

He should say that if that is the case, not speak in a way intended NOT to effectively communicate.

 

[lforrest]

God does not owe anyone an explanation. So IMO everyone should be grateful for the words of Jesus even when he did not speak plainly. When he didn't speak plainly it was not lying, because his words were true when properly understood. Improper understanding does not diminish the truthfulness of a statement. Our definitions should not lump God in with the fallen beings as being liars. Obligatory, "Let God be true and every man a liar."

Those who accept Jesus will receive the Spirit and the ability to interpret his words properly in his timing. As again, God owes us nothing and revelation of his word is a kindness for the benefit of his kingdom which we are part of.

Those who do not have the Spirit rejected or ignore the call.

 

[Gottservant]

Can you discuss science with a barbarian? Does Shakespeare make sense to a neandertal?

I think the Holy Spirit will be more interesting than you give Jesus credit for?

 

[Spyder]

Our definitions should not lump God in with the fallen beings as being liars. Obligatory, "Let God be true and every man a liar."

Those who accept Jesus will receive the Spirit and the ability to interpret his words properly in his timing.

Those who do not have the Spirit rejected or ignore the call.

After years of improper Bible examination, I discovered that my assumed position as a Christian did not automatically make my understanding correct. After studying, I asked God to validate or correct my understanding. I learned to wait on Him. When He gave me correction/validation, I didn't automatically like it. I did, however, accept it.

 

[Lambano]

What in your view Lambano is The Kingdom of God?

I hear tell it's like a mustard seed...

How do you put words to something that has no words?

 

[quietthinker]

I hear tell it's like a mustard seed...

How do you put words to something that has no words?

This is how I would. Let's say we start with Matthew 5:1-16; the beautiful attitudes.

 

[Windmill Charge]

lying of the Messiah.

If you are correct then Jesus was not the messiah, he did not as the sinless lamb of God take away our sins.

So who or what are you trusting in for your salvation.

 

[Wrangler]

If you are correct then Jesus was not the messiah, he did not as the sinless lamb of God take away our sins.

So who or what are you trusting in for your salvation.

I reject your claim that lying is necessarily a sin.

 

[Raccoon1010]

If you are easily offended stop reading now.












I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say. This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

I get it! Jesus is the son of God and was given all authority. That really doesn't change anything about the truth of what I'm saying.

We are Christians and love Jesus. The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are God to us and God the Father loves his Son Jesus the Christ. He is Lord of the heavens and earth, which is all of the Universe of creation. His throne is almighty together with the Father and Holy Ghost.

There are many parables in the bible including the book of Revelation. I'm not even sure why people like to interpret them and dissect them. I read them, then ask God, and if I don't receive an answer, then I find it best and move on. What do I do then? I ask God to feed me with good fruits of works where I can serve God in helping others of his flock. There is much to do in the world today, and complaining about God or scripture takes away from the focus of the Christian appeal, which is being a good people thru the power and love God provides us.

I also liked what @lforrest said in post #23.

Cheers :)

 

[Aunty Jane]

After years of improper Bible examination, I discovered that my assumed position as a Christian did not automatically make my understanding correct. After studying, I asked God to validate or correct my understanding. I learned to wait on Him. When He gave me correction/validation, I didn't automatically like it. I did, however, accept it.

This……when we are corrected…humbly accept it, rather than trying to justify ourselves because we think we cannot be wrong. God will not alter for us…it is we who must alter to accept what God says through his son.
The test of humility is in accepting what you don’t understand and waiting on God to reveal it. A humble person does not shake their fist at God for his own lack of understanding. Who can accuse Christ of being a bad teacher because they cannot grasp the meaning of his teachings?

Luke 10:21-22…
Jesus ”said: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children. Yes, O Father, because this is the way you approved. 22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.”

So, who are those to whom “the Son is willing to reveal” all the things we need to know about his Father?

Jesus’ words again…..
John 6:44….”No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him”…..

It is God who “draws” people to his truth…a truth that was taught by his son…..so no one comes to Christ without God’s prior evaluation as to worthiness first.

John 6:65…”This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
If God detects a proud heart or one that cannot be corrected, or to accept something new or different….there will never be an invitation to “understand” what Jesus taught.

We cannot ever come to an understanding of the truth if we have the wrong attitude or heart condition.

God is at this time using his Christ to evaluate every person on this planet as to fitness and worthiness to reside under the rule of his incoming kingdom. No unteachable person will gain citizenship there. The humble “sheep” will be ushered in……but the stubborn “goats“ will not be granted citizenship because they lack the one necessary characteristic that God is looking for in his worshippers…..unless we are humbly obedient and teachable “like young children” we will not make the cut when the appointed judge comes to pass sentence. (Matt 7:21-23)

We cannot make God change his ways for us…we have to change for him…..and he alone knows if that change is possible…..we may not.

 

[St. SteVen]

I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah.

Interesting topic.
Here's where I thought you might be going. "... lying of the Messiah."
One day I was considering this scripture below and it hit me...

John 18:20 NIV
“I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied.
“I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.

--- COMPARE ---

Luke 8:8-12 NIV
Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.”
When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
9 His disciples asked him what this parable meant.
10 He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you,
but to others I speak in parables, so that,
“‘though seeing, they may not see;
though hearing, they may not understand.’[a]
11 “This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those along the path are the ones who hear,
and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts,
so that they may not believe and be saved.

[

 

[Lambano]

False Alternative. I'm not suggesting anyone ignore the lord of heaven and Earth. I just don't like over-use of metaphors causing communication to not happen and frustration by both sides.

Well, we who prefer direct and unambiguous speech are in good company with some of Jesus's contemporaries:

 

[PGS11]

I think God sums it up pretty well - your ways are not my ways your thoughts are not my thoughts.

 

[Wrangler]

Well, we who prefer direct and unambiguous speech are in good company with some of Jesus's contemporaries

The funny thing about John 10:24 is Jesus did NOT come right out and tell them he was the Christ even though they directly asked him.

Generally, I think this is very bad on multiple levels and can only be excused in one condition, war/duplicity. And I do believe that was the case with the religious leaders asking him.

In other words, they weren’t asking him because they were ready to kneel before him and worship him as God’s emissary. They were asking to use his answer against him.

I never understood Mark 14:60-62. How they determined his great I am, I am the Anointed one, constitutes blasphemy makes no sense. Someone has to be the Messiah, how it is blasphemous for the Messiah to say A is A, that he is the Messiah? Duplicity. They weren’t after the truth. They were after revenge.

 

[St. SteVen]

I think God sums it up pretty well - your ways are not my ways your thoughts are not my thoughts.

Does that mean that there is no way we can ever hope to understand God, or what he wants with us?

[

 

[Lambano]

Does that mean that there is no way we can ever hope to understand God, or what he wants with us?

[

How's our track record so far?

 

[JLB]

If you are easily offended stop reading now.












I'm not sure what forum this should be in. I put it in the Ethics and Morality forum because the basis of my dislike is grounded in a sacred cow, lying of the Messiah. Of course, no one will admit this is lying because of the sacred cow. What do you call it when you deliberately use words incorrectly, deceptively, unnecessarily and overly figuratively? Politicians are hated for this; speaking with a forked tongue; saying one thing but meaning another.

This pattern is seen throughout the Gospels and Jesus admitted using parables to fulfill prophecy. However, today's devotional reading is no kind of parable and reveals why I would not like Jesus especially concisely. In Matthew 16:11 Jesus asks, "Why can't you understand that I am not talking about bread?"

The simple answer is 'because words have meaning and you are using the word bread.' V12 explains they finally understood he was talking about the deceptiveness (of the teaching of the religious leaders).
A is A.
Bread is bread.
Deceptiveness is deceptiveness.

I was taught a good communication technique is to say what you mean and mean what you say. This is not only effective communication but effective teaching. Jesus may have been a teacher but he obviously was not an effective teacher using any objective standard. Imagine any other teacher whose own students don't understand him and his teachings ended up getting him killed? Enter the sacred cow. Oh but from a spiritual perspective ...

I get it! Jesus is the son of God and was given all authority. That really doesn't change anything about the truth of what I'm saying.

Are you saying Jesus lied?

 

[St. SteVen]

How's our track record so far?

Perhaps that's why I focus on questions.
All the answers are wrong, all the questions are at least half right. - LOL

[

 

[Wrangler]

Are you saying Jesus lied?

Yes. See post # 22.