Why I believe in the rapture.

[Taken]

...so why are rapturist afraid of the tribulation of satan

Who said "afraid" ?
Who said "tribulation of satan'?

Scripture says "Wrath" during the Tribulation.
Wrath during the Tribulation is:
Wrath of the Lamb, first
Wrath of the Devil, secondly
Wrath of God, lastly
Scripture reveals "the Converted are not appointed to Wrath"

scripture teaches that he (satan) can't harm a hair on your head ,if you have the seal of God.

Correct.
How? How can the "wraths" to come not harm you?

Like scripture says ,satan shall come first , let's look at what happens with those who follow him thinking he's Christ..

Correct.
In brief;
Many will follow satan, not knowing Christ. Satan will kill those who reject him.

The Lamb is in Heaven.
The Lamb begins Opening the SEALS.

Satan is he that shall come First to Earth...
Satan given power to:
Rev 6:1 1st seal opened - conquer
Rev 6:2 2nd seal opened - oppresses peace
Rev 6:5 3rd seal opened - scales
Rev 6:7 4th seal opened - death & hell

Remember: WHERE the Lamb is, WHERE Christ is, WHERE God is:
WHEN...
The Seals are Opened... ? "IN HEAVEN".

Remember: WHERE God WAS, when He destroyed the Earth With WATER...?
(First Great Tribulation)
"IN HEAVEN"

Remember: WHERE the "SAVED" WERE, when the Earth was being flooded "During the First Great Tribulation'?
Rising UP, above the Earth, upon the Face of the Waters.

Heb 4:
[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Thes 1:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Converted are ALREADY DELIVER-ED...
Already Approved. Already In Gods Peace.
Wrath UPON the World, IS NOT Gods PEACE.
Wrath UPON the World, IS the Lambs Anger, the Devils Anger, Gods Anger, being revealed in utter chaos, and destruction.

God did not LEAVE Noah (Gods Saved) ON Earth, during Gods WRATH.
Christ shall not LEAVE (His Saved) ON Earth, during ANY WRATH.

WHO was ON EARTH, during the First Great Tribulation? Those who rejected God.

WHO shall be ON EARTH, during the Last Great Tribulation?

Rom 2:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH ...

Rom 1
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven...
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 5:
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved FROM wrath through him.

Saved "FROM" wrath.
(Not Saved "THROUGH" wrath.)

Same as Noah, was Saved "FROM" wrath, (Not Saved "Through" wrath. )
Noah risen UP:

Gen 7:
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

1 Thes 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thes 5:
[9] ... God hath not appointed us to wrath...

US, are the SAVED.
Why do you believe (the SAVED) shall be appointed TO, Go through, Wrath upon the Earth?

FOR WHAT PURPOSE, ARE THE SAVED "GENTILES"...ON EARTH, during the Last Great Tribulation??

 

[David in NJ]

Who said "afraid" ?
Who said "tribulation of satan'?

Scripture says "Wrath" during the Tribulation.
Wrath during the Tribulation is:
Wrath of the Lamb, first
Wrath of the Devil, secondly
Wrath of God, lastly
Scripture reveals "the Converted are not appointed to Wrath"



Correct.
How? How can the "wraths" to come not harm you?



Correct.
In brief;
Many will follow satan, not knowing Christ. Satan will kill those who reject him.

The Lamb is in Heaven.
The Lamb begins Opening the SEALS.

Satan is he that shall come First to Earth...
Satan given power to:
Rev 6:1 1st seal opened - conquer
Rev 6:2 2nd seal opened - oppresses peace
Rev 6:5 3rd seal opened - scales
Rev 6:7 4th seal opened - death & hell

Remember: WHERE the Lamb is, WHERE Christ is, WHERE God is:
WHEN...
The Seals are Opened... ? "IN HEAVEN".

Remember: WHERE God WAS, when He destroyed the Earth With WATER...?
(First Great Tribulation)
"IN HEAVEN"

Remember: WHERE the "SAVED" WERE, when the Earth was being flooded "During the First Great Tribulation'?
Rising UP, above the Earth, upon the Face of the Waters.

Heb 4:
[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Thes 1:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Converted are ALREADY DELIVER-ED...
Already Approved. Already In Gods Peace.
Wrath UPON the World, IS NOT Gods PEACE.
Wrath UPON the World, IS the Lambs Anger, the Devils Anger, Gods Anger, being revealed in utter chaos, and destruction.

God did not LEAVE Noah (Gods Saved) ON Earth, during Gods WRATH.
Christ shall not LEAVE (His Saved) ON Earth, during ANY WRATH.

WHO was ON EARTH, during the First Great Tribulation? Those who rejected God.

WHO shall be ON EARTH, during the Last Great Tribulation?

Rom 2:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH ...

Rom 1
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven...
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 5:
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved FROM wrath through him.

Saved "FROM" wrath.
(Not Saved "THROUGH" wrath.)

Same as Noah, was Saved "FROM" wrath, (Not Saved "Through" wrath. )
Noah risen UP:

Gen 7:
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

1 Thes 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thes 5:
[9] ... God hath not appointed us to wrath...

US, are the SAVED.
Why do you believe (the SAVED) shall be appointed TO, Go through, Wrath upon the Earth?

FOR WHAT PURPOSE, ARE THE SAVED "GENTILES"...ON EARTH, during the Last Great Tribulation??

#1 We, who are in Christ, are NOT appointed to God's Wrath 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10

#2 No Christian is given a guarantee of escaping satan's wrath -
Acts 14:22 "Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

The Thessalonians were suffering under satan's wrath - 1 Thess chapter 1

Apostle Paul who wrote 1 Thessalonians also wrote 2 Thessalonians
The Antichrist is revealed BEFORE the Christ's Return/ the Resurrection/ the Rapture = 2 Thessalonians chapter 2

God said that satan will wear out the saints of the Most High: Daniel 7:25

The Lord Jesus Christ confirmed Daniels Prophecy and Pauls Teaching on the Rapture: Revelations 13:8-9 Revelations 16:15
"And the beast opened its mouth to speak blasphemies against God and to slander His name and His tabernacle—those who dwell in heaven. Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all who dwell on the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world in the Book of Life belonging to the Lamb who was slain.…

 

[Oseas]

The Word is GOD.

And except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.

Matt.24:v.15 and 21-25
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.



Two days was determined to prepare material (Hoseas 6:v.2 combined with John 2:v.19) and also create in the image and likeness of God the heirs of the earth(John 3:v.5-6 and Mat.5:v.5), coheirs with Christ of the kingdom of God.

Revelation 6:v.2 combined with Psalm 45:v.4-5 and Psalm 7:v.-12-13
Rev.6:v.2- I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW;
Ps.45:v.4-5:- 4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things. 5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.


Psalm 7:v.11-13: - 11 God Judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every Day(a Day=1.000 years). 12 If he turn not, he will whet His Sword; he hath bent his BOW, and made it ready. 13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth His ARROWS against the persecutors.


Revelation 7:v.1-4 and 9-10-and 13-14
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth (North South East West), holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth(Israel-the clay-the dry land), nor on the sea(the Gentiles, or peoples, and NATIONS, and multitudes of all tongues) nor on any tree.(the disciples of JESUS, the believers)
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

13 And one of the(24)elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 8:v.1-5 and 6 to 13
1And when he had opened the seventh seal,there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.(around21years(1.000/24~42/2=21)
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.

Revelation 8:v.6 to 13

Punishments and punishments. Punishments and punishments. Punishments and punishments. Punishments and punishments-Revelation 8:v.6 to 12.

13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

And except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.

It seems that those who imagine to escape or and want to escape the days that will be shortenned for the love of the elect, they do not belong to the number of the elect.

Be careful, or get ready

 

[David in NJ]

Oseas said: "It seems that those who imagine to escape or and want to escape the days that will be shortened for the love of the elect, they do not belong to the number of the elect."

I belong to Christ and He did tell us to "Pray that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things." Luke 21:36

Thank YOU Lord Jesus, that you have shortened the days for your elect. We who believe You are now entering the Tribulation spoken of by Daniel, the Apostles and Your Revelation.

 

[marks]

I know symbolism when I see it.

I know symbolism when the Bible says it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yea this vile body needs changed. Would you a changed body, or the permanent one made by God?

The terrestrial body is transformed by putting on the celestial body.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 KJV
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

2 Corinthians 5:1-5 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4) For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5) Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

All of these references are of putting on the heavenly body like we'd put on an overcoat. Except in this case, when we put on the immortal, that's what we are. When put on the incorruptible, that's what we are. The body of our humilition changed to be like His glorious body.

You can call all this symbols, but the Bible does not, and I do not.

Much love!

 

[Oseas]

The LORD is at door.

Luke 13:v.24-25
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the Master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, ...


Matthew 25:5 to 12
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


The world of Devil is already being severely punished by the wrath of GOD according prophecies-the Word is GOD-, but it is only starting, the worst is to come in very near future, and what the mankind is not knwoing is that the punishments will be eternal, they will be without end, and they are for ever and ever; Actually, the devil's world is already in death agony. The current DECADE -2020 to 2030- is the last decade of the Devil's world, by the way, the last week of Daniel 9:v.27 is within this current and last decade.

Isaiah 26:v.20-21
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

 

[David in NJ]

The LORD is at door.

Luke 13:v.24-25
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the Master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, ...


Matthew 25:5 to 12
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


The world of Devil is already being severely punished by the wrath of GOD according prophecies-the Word is GOD-, but it is only starting, the worst is to come in very near future, and what the mankind is not knwoing is that the punishments will be eternal, they will be without end, and they are for ever and ever; Actually, the devil's world is already in death agony. The current DECADE -2020 to 2030- is the last decade of the Devil's world, by the way, the last week of Daniel 9:v.27 is within this current and last decade.

The beginning of the last week of Daniel came into play when the Lord Jesus began His ministry here on earth, as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
His ministry lasted 3.5 years.
God has put Time on hold until the fullness of the Gentiles whom God will call unto Christ are brought in. Romans chapter 11
After this is complete the last 3.5 years will start with "the falling away first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition." 2 Thessalonians chapter 2
At the start of the remaining 3.5 year period God will send His two Witnesses to preach in Israel. At the end of their ministry the beast from the bottomless pit will ascend and kill them - after 3.5 days their dead bodies will rise and they are caught up (raptured) to Heaven.

 

[Naomi25]

Bodies coming out of their tombs in Matthew 27:52-53 is a recorded resurrection event.

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

This is not the Revelation 20:4 event. Some amil try to use this as the same event. They claim Satan was bound at the Cross as well.

So there are 2 distinct events.

I know the Matt 27 account. I also know Jesus ‘raised from the dead’ many during his ministry.
The thing we must ask ourselves…were those ‘resurrections’ in the sense that those people never again died because they had received their new resurrection bodies?
Nothing in scripture gives us leave to assume they were. Which means Jesus bought these people back to life…THIS life, in these corruptible bodies, as a sign of who he was and what his ministry was about.
It does not change the fact that scripture tells us that THE resurrection…the time when we receive our resurrection bodies…the first fruits of which was Christ…happens only AT his coming.
So between a clear teaching of scripture, and a vague assumption that some people possibly, might, have been resurrected in glorious bodies before Christ’s return…I’ll take the clear teaching of scripture.

.
Some claim there is one at the end of this 1000 years. Even those who claim the 1000 years is just symbolic. They assume first implies a second. The Cross, the pre-mill, and the post mill cannot be the same singular event, not even by twisting logic into a pretzel.

Only if one follows the logic path you’ve laid out. If you instead follow what the bible tells us outright, and the obvious conclusions from that, there appears to be no problems.

.
I do not claim the GWT is a resurrection event, so no one can accuse me of calling it a resurrection. The Cross was a resurrection event. The end of the tribulation is the only other resurrection event I acknowledge. The tribulation did not end at the Cross. They cannot be the same resurrection, period.

Revelation 20:12-14
[12] And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. [13] And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. [14] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

You say you’ve not claimed the GWT as a resurrection event. Perhaps you should. What else do you call it when “death gives up” the dead to judgment? Could it possibly be this?

John 5:28-29
[28] Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice [29] and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Add that to the fact that, as I said above, the ‘cross’ can not be concluded to be a ‘resurrection event’ for anyone but Christ, he who is the first fruits. For several reasons, but the chief among them is this: the Matt 27 verses that specifies that the dead came out of their graves’, does NOT tell us this was an eternal resurrection How can Christ be the “first fruits” of resurrection bodies, as per 1 Cor 15, if he had gifted a eternal body to people before his own resurrection?
Answer: he couldn’t. Because he didn’t. The people who came back to life before the resurrection of Christ were simply restored to THIS life, in their old bodies.

. The change in mid air. Do those bodies die for lack of oxygen? Or do they evolve quickly to adapt and keep living. The point about the soul leaving this corruptible body is considered death. The soul leaves, the body quits functioning. It is essentially non functioning and returns to dust. Is that death? If the corruptible body is already dead, is that why it cannot enter Paradise as is, even fully functional? If the soul changes bodies in mid air is that not considered death for one and resurrection for the other?

Well…that’s a whole bunch of assumptions based on nothing more than inventive reading.
Does the bible tell us we’ll “die for lack of oxygen” when meeting Christ in the air and be given our new bodies? In point of fact, does the bible give us any detail at all on how our old bodies will be transformed into our new ones? Not really, just that it will be ‘in the air’ and in ‘a twinkling of an eye’. So, your ideas cannot be merited, or viewed as anything but speculation and fancy. Which can be fun to think about, I suppose, but hardly helpful when trying to form solid biblical ideas about such events.

 

[Naomi25]

The spiritual (second) birth has literally nothing whatsoever to do with our soul, our body, nor our spirit.

I’m sorry, but…what?!
“The second birth (born again) has literally nothing whatsoever to do with our soul, our body, nor our spirit”.
That is…farcical.
By saying that becoming born again affects neither spirit NOR body, you’ve basically just made the statement that being born again does NOTHING. How can I say that? Because a person is made up of body and spirit. Therefore it must affect ONE of these to have any affect on the person as a whole.
When the bible tells us repeatedly that being born again moves us from death to life…eternal life, in Christ, it CANNOT be speaking of a physical (body) rebirth. All Christians remain in their old bodies when they become saved. But we know, undoubtably, from multiple scriptures, that the spiritual part of that person, which was dead outside of Christ, moves into life in him.
There is simply no other way to interpret those verses.

. It is all in the person of the Holy Spirit and submitting our will. Unless our will is our soul, then the soul has to follow the will, just as much as the body has to follow our will, and submit to the Holy Spirit.

Ok. And what about the verses that tell us that apart from new birth, we are incapable of submitting to the HS?

Romans 3:9-11
[9] What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, [10] as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
[11] no one understands;
no one seeks for God.


Ephesians 2:1-5
[1] And you were dead in the trespasses and sins [2] in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—[3] among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

.We do not get a different soul. We do not get a different body. We do not get a different spirit. We only submit our will to the Holy Spirit and we are part of the family of God by adoption.

It’s not about “different”…of getting a ‘different’ soul or spirit…which would then NOT be us. It’s about getting a new spirit that lives. A change from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. It’s what ALLOWS us…make us CAPABLE of submitting to the HS.

 

[David in NJ]

Worth repeating
David H. said: Add that to the fact that, as I said above, the ‘cross’ can not be concluded to be a ‘resurrection event’ for anyone but Christ, he who is the first fruits. For several reasons, but the chief among them is this: the Matt 27 verses that specifies that ‘dead came out of their graves’ happens before Christ’s resurrection. How can Christ be the “first fruits” of resurrection bodies, as per 1 Cor 15, if he had gifted that body to people before his own resurrection?
Answer: he couldn’t. Because he didn’t. The people who came back to life before the resurrection of Christ were simply restored to THIS life, in their old bodies.

This does not mean that those who were resurrected by and with Jesus dies again.
"It is appointed to men ONCE to die, after this Judgement." Hebrews 9:27

Perhaps those who were resurrected by and with the Lord Jesus Christ never returned to the grave since that would conflict with Hebrews 9:27 as well as Genesis on forward to the Gospels. These resurrected individuals were obviously saved by receiving Christ's words before they died, just as Abraham believed the Lord and it was credited to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6 and Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3
100% Biblical possibility according to the Scriptures = They could be with the Lord now in bodily form. Maybe with glorified bodies already.
How do I derive this from scripture?
Answer = Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him. Elijah was caught up in a flaming chariot and taken home to the Lord.
These are the Two Witnesses of Revelations whom the beast from the bottomless pit will kill when their ministry is over - thus fulfilling Hebrews 9:27, which satan knows full well, and has made this known to God.

 

[Naomi25]

Why would this resurrection you claim, having a future hour, not apply to Lazarus?
.

As I’ve said before…Christ raising people, like Lazarus, from the dead, is not feasible to consider it truly resurrection. First, because 1 Cor 15 tells us that Christ is the ‘first fruits’ of this sort of resurrection. Therefore anyone given a “new, resurrection body” before Christ was raised, violates the order of this.
Second, when we consider what scripture TELLS us about the nature of resurrection…its not simply ‘having life’…as in, this life. It’s ALL about eternal life.
And that means we’re talking about either eternal life of the spirit (born again) or eternal life of the body (new, resurrection body).
Anything outside of that is just reanimation of our earthly meat suit.

. You seem to want it for those in sheol, and for those not even named in the Lamb's book of life. Yet most refuse to allow this very same resurrection for Lazarus. Lazarus was proof the "hour" was already available before the Cross. I think we only disagree that it can only happen at one defined particular hour

It’s got nothing to do with “what I want”. Ug!
The BIBLE tells us that the dead will be “resurrected” to eternal judgment and punishment.
That’s not me inserting my fondest wishes, or making stuff up. That’s there…clearly in the text.

If ‘resurrection’ can happen and has happened at multiple stages in history, why are we told, specifically, in scripture…that we ought to be looking for a particular day? Let me show you:

Daniel 7:22; 26-27
[22] until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, and the time came when the saints possessed the kingdom…..
[26] But the court shall sit in judgment,
and his dominion shall be taken away,
to be consumed and destroyed to the end.
[27] And the kingdom and the dominion
and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;
his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’

Matthew 12:36
[36] I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

John 5:24; 28-29
[24] Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life….
[28] Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice [29] and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

John 11:24-25
[24] Martha said to him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” [25] Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,

1 Corinthians 15:23; 52
[23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ….
[52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

Romans 2:5
[5] But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.

2 Corinthians 5:10
[10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Hebrews 6:1-2
[1] Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [2] and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Hebrews 9:27-28
[27] And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, [28] so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

2 Peter 2:9
[9] then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,

1 Corinthians 15:48-52
[48] As was the man of dust, so also are those who are of the dust, and as is the man of heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. [49] Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven.
[50] I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. [51] Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

2 Timothy 2:18
[18] who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some.

1 Peter 1:3-5
[3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [4] to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, [5] who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


Okay…I know theres a lot there. But we can see two clear things begin to emerge. The judgment of both righteous and wicked happen together…they are intertwined with the gifting or punishment of an eternal nature, of the resurrection. And we can also see that the bible points to A DAY, or even AN HOUR.
There is nothing here that supposes physical resurrections….of the eternal life nature…happens repeatedly and is ongoing. In point of fact, I would say that 2 Tim 2:18; John 5:28-29 and 1 Cor 15:20-25, 48-52 tells us directly the opposite.

 

[Naomi25]

There is a logical explanation for 3 different battles.

Refusing to identify the reason and claim the same words mean the same thing, you still fail to point out the reason, but you have a single battle for no reason at all, but the word battle.

Being able to come up with a “logical” outworking for what you think to be a chain of events is, perhaps, fine. Most people won’t believe something unless they can make it fit logically.
The problem, however, with just saying “I can see how that might work, logically” still doesn’t mean that it is IN scripture, or the outworking of reading scripture as it is meant to be read.
I mean…case in point…look at the Catholic Church with something like transubstantiation. There is no real, biblical support that the communion elements “magically turn into” Christ’s actual body and blood. But they’ve managed to pull around that idea a couple of ‘logical’ steps to make it make sense. Something about the philosophical idea that every ‘thing’ has a ‘mystery’ (I think they call it)…which is the outwards appearance of a thing. And then it has its inner nature…WHAT it truly is. They say that in transubstantiation the ‘mystery’ remains the same, but miraculously the ‘inner part’ of the bread and wine have turned into Christ.
Sure….its logical thinking in that one can see how they’ve made the jumps or conclusions. But again…SO not in scripture.

 

[Oseas]

Revelation 13:v.1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

The Man Beast of sea
I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a Beast rise up out of the sea,...>sea=>peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-Revelation 17:v.15 - The Man Beast of sea is a Gentile Beast;

... a Beast of the sea having seven heads...
The Beast of sea did rise up out of the Gentile nations. The nations are located in Europe, and Asia, Africa, Oceania(Australia), North America, Central America and South America, in fact 7 regions of the Earth; One of this 7 regions will be wounded to death or mortally wounded by a Sword, in fact a sharp Sword. (In my view South America);

...having also 10 horns...
The MAN Beast of sea in this moment is working only with his 7 heads. The 10 horns will be linked to the Beast of sea in very near future, as soon as the MAN Beast of the earth(earth here is Israel-the clay, the dry land) manifest himself like a lamb,actually a false lamb,a false messiah,an esoteric,and kabbalistic,and spiritist messiah in fulfilment of JESUS said(John 5:v.43-this is prophecy), who has two horns, but he speaks as a Dragon;

...and upon his horns 10 crowns...
The esoteric and kabbalistic false messiah(John 5:v.43-this is prophecy)is of the tribe of Dan(Gen.49:v.17), and he is the main ruler of the kingdom of Israel and its 10 crowned tribes symbolized as 10 toes-Daniel 2:v.42, and also symbolized as 10 kings in Revelation 17:v.3 and 7;

...and upon his (7) heads the NAME of blasphemy...
Vicarius Filii Dei

Revelation 13:v.2 - the Dragon will give to the MAN Beast of sea his Power, and his Seat (in Jerusalem), and great Authority-the Pope will sit on a Throne is Jerusalem-Israel-a great delusion; The COURT which is without the temple...is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city -Jerusalem- shall they tread under foot forty and two(42)months. THE FIRST HALF OF THE LAST WEEK

Revelation 13:v.5 - And there was given unto him (unto the MAN Beast of sea) a MOUTH(Rev.16:v.13) speaking great things and blasphemies;and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. THE FIRST HALF OF THE LAST WEEK

Revelation 13:v.6-9
6 And he opened his MOUTH in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make War with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth-the Jews-Israel- shall WORSHIP him (great delusion), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.


Daniel 12:v. 11 - THE SECOND HALF OF THE LAST WEEK - Matthew 24:V.15
11 And from the time that the...the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. 1.290 days

Daniel 12:v. 12 - The glorious, the wonderful, the marvelous day 1335
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 1.260 + a gap of 30 days + a gap of 45 days = GREAT DAY 1.335

 

[n2thelight]

Who said "afraid" ?
Who said "tribulation of satan'?

Scripture says "Wrath" during the Tribulation.
Wrath during the Tribulation is:
Wrath of the Lamb, first
Wrath of the Devil, secondly
Wrath of God, lastly
Scripture reveals "the Converted are not appointed to Wrath"



Correct.
How? How can the "wraths" to come not harm you?



Correct.
In brief;
Many will follow satan, not knowing Christ. Satan will kill those who reject him.

The Lamb is in Heaven.
The Lamb begins Opening the SEALS.

Satan is he that shall come First to Earth...
Satan given power to:
Rev 6:1 1st seal opened - conquer
Rev 6:2 2nd seal opened - oppresses peace
Rev 6:5 3rd seal opened - scales
Rev 6:7 4th seal opened - death & hell

Remember: WHERE the Lamb is, WHERE Christ is, WHERE God is:
WHEN...
The Seals are Opened... ? "IN HEAVEN".

Remember: WHERE God WAS, when He destroyed the Earth With WATER...?
(First Great Tribulation)
"IN HEAVEN"

Remember: WHERE the "SAVED" WERE, when the Earth was being flooded "During the First Great Tribulation'?
Rising UP, above the Earth, upon the Face of the Waters.

Heb 4:
[3] For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

1 Thes 1:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Converted are ALREADY DELIVER-ED...
Already Approved. Already In Gods Peace.
Wrath UPON the World, IS NOT Gods PEACE.
Wrath UPON the World, IS the Lambs Anger, the Devils Anger, Gods Anger, being revealed in utter chaos, and destruction.

God did not LEAVE Noah (Gods Saved) ON Earth, during Gods WRATH.
Christ shall not LEAVE (His Saved) ON Earth, during ANY WRATH.

WHO was ON EARTH, during the First Great Tribulation? Those who rejected God.

WHO shall be ON EARTH, during the Last Great Tribulation?

Rom 2:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH ...

Rom 1
[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven...
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 5:
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved FROM wrath through him.

Saved "FROM" wrath.
(Not Saved "THROUGH" wrath.)

Same as Noah, was Saved "FROM" wrath, (Not Saved "Through" wrath. )
Noah risen UP:

Gen 7:
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

1 Thes 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thes 5:
[9] ... God hath not appointed us to wrath...

US, are the SAVED.
Why do you believe (the SAVED) shall be appointed TO, Go through, Wrath upon the Earth?

FOR WHAT PURPOSE, ARE THE SAVED "GENTILES"...ON EARTH, during the Last Great Tribulation??

No your whole premise is wrong, Christians are the only people that can be deceived, and they will be ,satan can't go around killing people pretending to be Christ.

Those who are deceived , most will come out of her, per the below

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

Now the next scripture is when some will come out of confusion ,the next time true tongues shall be spoken

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

Now the next verse is what happens to those who don't come out (confusion)


Revelation 6:15 "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;"

All mankind except for God's elect, the remnant, and the 144,000 of chapter seven, will be part of Satan's [Antichrist's] kingdom. When the rest of the Christians see our Lord Jesus Christ coming, they will all know immediately what they have done. Then the shame will be great, to the point of wishing to perish, if it were possible. But it will not be possible for all souls will be changed into their incorruptible bodies at the coming of Christ. I Corinthians 15:50-54 reveals that no flesh and blood can nor will exist at that time, nor will any of the things dealing with the flesh body exist.

Revelation 6:16 "And said to the mountains and the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:"

This bears repeating, but if you simply cannot understand that the Antichrist comes first, before Jesus Christ's return, you will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ. This verse is describing how you will feel when you see the true Christ at the seventh trumpet. The fear will be so great that it will be a terror to your mind for the sins that you have committed in worshipping the false christ.

Revelation 6:17 "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Many Christians have been taught that at Christ's coming, the wrath of God is out to bury you, and destroy the entire earth. God, in the minds of most Christians, has the image of a harsh destroyer, instead of the loving and compassionate friend that we have in Him. By their own teaching, most of the church world condemn themselves.

The wrath of the lamb, will not let one soul slip from Him in ignorance. The judgment comes following 1000 years of Christ's kingdom [the millennium]. Revelation 6:16-17 sets the frame of mind for all those who have allowed the Kenites to interpret the Scriptures for them. They will have listened to false teachings in ignorance and not what God's Word had promised us.

This entire chapter leads us to that one great "Day of the Lord", and Christ's return at the seventh trumpet.

Those who do not heed what the Spirit teaches are those whom though changed are still spiritually dead and stand to die the 2nd death , which is the death of the soul.

Again Christians will be deceived ,as they are the only ones who can be

 

[Taken]

This bears repeating, but if you simply cannot understand that the Antichrist comes first,

Uh huh, Already addressed that;

before Jesus Christ's return,

* The (Devil) anti-Christ and
* his False Prophet anti-Christ and
* demonic cohorts anti-Christs and
* human followers anti-Christ
will appear with power before the Son of mans return...
The Lamb in Heaven Opens the first four Seals for them to be revealed!

you will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ.

False accusation.
By your post, you should be concerned for yourself, because you are utterly unaware of who Scripture is speaking about.

This verse is describing how you will feel when you see the true Christ at the seventh trumpet. The fear will be so great that it will be a terror to your mind for the sins that you have committed in worshipping the false christ.

Talking about Spiritual things with "YOUR CARNAL MINDED UNDERSTANDING" is a fail.
Catholics are taught to think, talk, understand, logically conclude Spiritual things, with Carnal Minded philosophies of men. Open the Bible, read it, and learn why that IS a FAIL and HOW TO leap out of that trap.

Again Christians will be deceived ,as they are the only ones who can be

"Christians" are not the highlight....
Read the Scriptures. The ONLY Spectacular thing you should desire to be called IS:
Converted IN Christ.

 

[n2thelight]

"Christians" are not the highlight....
Read the Scriptures. The ONLY Spectacular thing you should desire to be called IS:
Converted IN Christ.

Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works'.

Matthew 7:23 "And then will I profess unto them, 'I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity' ."

Jesus Christ is saying here, and you had better get this now, when there is time. If you do not follow the path that Jesus Christ is teaching you in this sermon on the mount, Jesus response to you will be, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

This is the generation that better know the difference between God's doctrine and the doctrines of demons. They both sound very good, and they both sound right and true. However, any doctrine that isn't one hundred percent backed by the Word of God is a fake. So the time is here to get down and know what is in the Scriptures.

Both Christ and the devil offer peace, and prosperity, however, only Jesus Christ can offer eternal life. The eternal life should be foremost in the doctrine. Why does Jesus not want them? They worship the traditions of Men, and their church system, and they in fact do not even teach God's letter to His children. What they do quote from the Bible is twisted to satisify their own desires.

Christians are the highlight

Hear from Paul , and maybe you will understand the above

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

Paul had converted these Corinthians and taught them enough to get their church on the move. Paul is speaking here about and directing attention to those people that are meddling with the church that he has established. Paul is having righteous jealousy over the converts that he brought to salvation, and he is telling them that he has made each of them part of "the bride of Jesus Christ", the anointed One.

This isn't hard to understand, for most everyone knows what a virgin is. A virgin is an untouched woman. Paul is saying that he wants to present each of these Corinthians as a chaste virgin to Christ, in as much as they are the bride of Christ. Paul is saying that He doesn't want Christ's bride messed with by any of these super-preachers that are causing the divisions within the churches.

For a young woman to be "espoused" to her husband means that she is completely committed to him, even before the vows have been exchanged. Paul is using this relationship whereby we could understand the emotions of Christ towards His bride. The feeling and commitment goes both ways, and applies to the man as much as it applies to the woman. It is no great secret what causes virginity to be lost, for it is being unfaithful sexually to the one you are espoused to marry.

If a woman has been unfaithful, and is with child, how could she expect that she could be accepted by the man she was espoused to, when she is carrying another man's child? Paul is afraid that if Christians start listening to these fairy-tale preachers, they will be taken by the wrong christ, or Satan the Antichrist [the instead of Christ]. Then when Jesus Christ returns at the seventh trumpet, they will be found unworthy to be part of "the bride of Christ". Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 24:19; "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!" He was not referring to a mother with a child in her womb, but spiritually speaking, Christians that have given themselves over to the wrong husband. In ignorance they will have been deceived into climbing into the spiritual bed of Satan, and their hearts have been given over to the Satan.

If you are one of the whores of Satan, than you cannot be one of the virgins of Christ waiting with your lamps full of oil [which is the truth from God's Word] that is waiting for the coming of the bridegroom, which is Jesus Christ. Paul now is putting it into a language that most anyone can understand. Paul is saying; "I'm afraid that one of these false teachers is going to seduce you."

Again, only a Christian can be deceived , and so you know, I have accepted Christ but that's just the beginning ,get off the milk and get you some meat!!!!

 

[Taken]

Jesus Christ is saying here, and you had better get this now, when there is time. If you do not follow the path that Jesus Christ is teaching you in this sermon on the mount, Jesus response to you will be, "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

And? What exactly have I said that you think You are telling me something new?

Again, only a Christian can be deceived, and so you know, I have accepted Christ but that's just the beginning ,get off the milk and get you some meat!!!!

Utter nonsense.
* ANY man, Not "CONVERTED IN Christ, can be deceived.
* And NOT Every man "CONVERTED IN Christ, is called "A Christian".
* And NOT every man Calling himself a Christian "IS" Converted IN Christ.

The LABEL "Christian" IS NOT what JESUS Himself called a man, "IN" Christ.

Go read a GOOD Book and Eat a Steak!

 

[n2thelight]

And? What exactly have I said that you think You are telling me something new?



Utter nonsense.
* ANY man, Not "CONVERTED IN Christ, can be deceived.
* And NOT Every man "CONVERTED IN Christ, is called "A Christian".
* And NOT every man Calling himself a Christian "IS" Converted IN Christ.

The LABEL "Christian" IS NOT what JESUS Himself called a man, "IN" Christ.

Go read a GOOD Book and Eat a Steak!

Any man not converted in Christ is already deceived
How can one be converted in Christ and not be a Christian

I'll leave the last one

What exactly is a Christian ?


Steak sounds good though

 

[Taken]

Any man not converted in Christ is already deceived
How can one be converted in Christ and not be a Christian

I'll leave the last one

What exactly is a Christian ?


Steak sounds good though

Christian is a term, non-followers of Jesus' teachings called men who followed and believed and taught Jesus' teachings.

Fully aware a man NOT converted IN Christ, is already deceived, and have never said otherwise.

There are approx. 7.5 million Jews world wide.
Daily Jews are converting IN Christ...
There are approx. 250,000 Jews IN Christ, calling themselves Messianic Jews...(not Christians).

Millions of Gentiles, calling themselves Christians, are not Converted IN Christ.
Which is WHY;
You can visit any Protestant Church, attend any Revivial meeting, attend any Evangelical Meeting event....and observe people calling themselves "Christians", publically testifying they are giving their Life TO Christ, accepting His offering of Salvation.

As well, you can hear of men publically and proudly testifying, "they used to be a Christian", dipped in a vat of water, but never believed, or stopped believing.
THAT ^ Was NEVER a Converted man.
THAT ^ Is a man who is revealing He LIED to God and Woe unto him, it would have been better for him, that he had Never been born.

Calling oneself A CHRISTIAN...is one thing.
Calling oneself A CONVERTED CHRISTIAN or a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN...has a totally different meaning.
And Because Christians primarily DO NOT, specifiy, but rather speak in General terms...AS IF, ALL "Christians" are the SAME..."the so called Christians themselves",
Between the converted, and non-converted...
Disagree continually.

AS WELL, "outsiders"...with no affiliation to Christianity....FIND the whole of "Christianity" a hokey, Religion, making no sense...
*That "SOME" ... so called Christians, preach,
Forever with the Lord God...
*While "OTHER" ...so called Christians, preach, You have to DO really good works to KEEP yourself in good graces with the Lord God, or He'll Leave you.

Christian IS NOT THE HIGHLIGHT.
Converted IN Christ IS the HIGHLIGHT.