Why I am leaving this forum

[tomwebster]

No darling skin color is not what this topic is about...My oil is right at the top...thanks for caring...The topic is about how some people think they know all the answers and treat others as stupid, dim witted individuals who just so happen to have different views than they do, so the insults fly and hurt people and people leave, instead of staying around to be insulted by people with less brains than themselves...Nastiness is a sin and treating others as if they have no right to their opinions of God's Word is pure NASTY....that is why I love you Tom, you just right down to the nastiness and insult all who differ from your narrow minded point of view....Forgive me Lord for I have sinned, being nasty is not what I am about...Sorry Tom...check your oil...I think it needs a gallon or two...

You will have to show me where you think I was "nasty." I think you are mistaking honesty and boldness as being "nasty.”

 

[avoice]

There is at my last count 11 open current threads about arguing Pre trib Rapture
does anyone remember the OP its why JD is leaving ....
Not about the merits or punishment of Pre Trib
JD is leaving because he get attacked for Pre trib belief .... Now why is he attacked ? ...

I will say again

THERE IS NO PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE ANYWHERE never was
AND NOT EVEN PRE TRIB TEACHERS AND PREACHERS SAY IT IS WRITTEN.

They say its implied and give verse's to support this implication.

Now if one is of a mind to beilve what is said to be implicated ...so be it ....its their buisness.. and their reward or punishment is God buisness not ours

What the issue here is:

Pretrib believers say that these implied verse's should be held as biblical facts of something
THATS NOT WRITTEN in the first place....

Wether they are right or wrong isnt the issue,
wether they will follow antichrist or not isnt the issue,
wether they will be judged or not is not the issue ....

The only issue in this topic I see is .....
Should any unwritten words, and the verse's said to support these implications ..be considered as scripture ?

It is Pre tribers asking Bible students to accept this premise thats the problem.


The Bible speaks of two comings of Christ a fist and a second thats it

anything else is a matter of personal belief of you and your church ...Not a biblical one.

If everyone respected this fact we wouldnt have these useless never ending arguments
What one believes is not the same issue as what is written.

Believe what you ever you choose but dont get upset with those who wont study or accept your beliefs or those of your church ......as the written Word of God .

 

[veteran]

Tom darling...we all know the antichrist is coming and if we have read the scriptures and understand the time and the events we will not bow to anyone except the One True Christ.....it does not matter if the rapture happens or not...the truth of God's Word and knowing His Word is the only thing that will stand in the way of the mark and the antichrist for followers of Christ....Yes some will be like the foolish virgins and do as the Word says they will...but any true child of Christ will know....I imagine the antichrist will try to look like our concept of Jesus...One that has been used as a painting for years....We seem to forget that Jesus is not white...He was born in the Middle East ....

Excuse me, but I feel I must say something here,

Shep, you're first statement shows two opposing clauses, which is a sign that you really haven't understood Scripture of what the Antichrist is coming to do.

For if one does "read the scriptures and understand the time and the events" they will know that it does matter very much to get the timeline of Christ's return and our gathering correct. It's the very reason our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us so many warnings about the times and the seasons of His coming.

 

[tomwebster]

There is at my last count 11 open current threads about arguing Pre trib Rapture
does anyone remember the OP its why JD is leaving ....
Not about the merits or punishment of Pre Trib
JD is leaving because he get attacked for Pre trib belief .... Now why is he attacked ? ...

I will say again

THERE IS NO PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE ANYWHERE never was
AND NOT EVEN PRE TRIB TEACHERS AND PREACHERS SAY IT IS WRITTEN.

They say its implied and give verse's to support this implication.

Now if one is of a mind to beilve what is said to be implicated ...so be it ....its their buisness.. and their reward or punishment is God buisness not ours

What the issue here is:

Pretrib believers say that these implied verse's should be held as biblical facts of something
THATS NOT WRITTEN in the first place....

Wether they are right or wrong isnt the issue,
wether they will follow antichrist or not isnt the issue,
wether they will be judged or not is not the issue ....

The only issue in this topic I see is .....
Should any unwritten words, and the verse's said to support these implications ..be considered as scripture ?

It is Pre tribers asking Bible students to accept this premise thats the problem.


The Bible speaks of two comings of Christ a fist and a second thats it

anything else is a matter of personal belief of you and your church ...Not a biblical one.

If everyone respected this fact we wouldnt have these useless never ending arguments
What one believes is not the same issue as what is written.

Believe what you ever you choose but dont get upset with those who wont study or accept your beliefs or those of your church ......as the written Word of God .

And maybe you should look and see who started those 11 threads avoice. The responses you list above are all correct statements.

 

[aspen]

There is at my last count 11 open current threads about arguing Pre trib Rapture
does anyone remember the OP its why JD is leaving ....
Not about the merits or punishment of Pre Trib
JD is leaving because he get attacked for Pre trib belief .... Now why is he attacked ? ...

I will say again

THERE IS NO PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE ANYWHERE never was
AND NOT EVEN PRE TRIB TEACHERS AND PREACHERS SAY IT IS WRITTEN.

They say its implied and give verse's to support this implication.

Now if one is of a mind to beilve what is said to be implicated ...so be it ....its their buisness.. and their reward or punishment is God buisness not ours

What the issue here is:

Pretrib believers say that these implied verse's should be held as biblical facts of something
THATS NOT WRITTEN in the first place....

Wether they are right or wrong isnt the issue,
wether they will follow antichrist or not isnt the issue,
wether they will be judged or not is not the issue ....

The only issue in this topic I see is .....
Should any unwritten words, and the verse's said to support these implications ..be considered as scripture ?

It is Pre tribers asking Bible students to accept this premise thats the problem.


The Bible speaks of two comings of Christ a fist and a second thats it

anything else is a matter of personal belief of you and your church ...Not a biblical one.

If everyone respected this fact we wouldnt have these useless never ending arguments
What one believes is not the same issue as what is written.

Believe what you ever you choose but dont get upset with those who wont study or accept your beliefs or those of your church ......as the written Word of God .

Unbelievable! Kicking a guy in the ass on his way out.....
This behavior is why Christians are reviled - we place doctrinal correctness ahead of people.
I am starting to believe this is the definition of legalism.

 

[rockytopva]

In reference to my work on the seven churches (The Seven Church Ages) I have come to believe after reviewing the posts of this forum, that a doctrine of the Laodiceans is not to believe in the rapture...

The seven churches...

Ephesus - The Apostolic church age
Smyrna - The Martyr church age (read the foxes book of martyrs ten days = ten general Roman persecutions)
Pergomos - The Orthodox age - Syrna is myrthh in the Greek and Pergomos is towers representing their ages.
Thyatira - The Catholic Age - The spirit of Jezebel is to dominate and control
Sardis - The Protestant Age - 'Name that they lived' They thought they arrived...
Philadelphia - The revived church age - They did arrive!
Laodicea - The material church age - Oh brother!

I believe the doctrine of the rapture is Philadelphian church age unique... In which... Tom Webster... I call thee Laodicean.


It has to be this way... After the Laodiceans totally debunk what they believe is the error of the rapture that day will come upon them at unawares... As a thief in the night!

 

[aspen]

You will have to show me where you think I was "nasty." I think you are mistaking honesty and boldness as being "nasty.”

Tom, you have consistently proven that you are blind to how your words affect people. Countless people have pointed out the condescending, arrogant tone in your posts and instead of considering that there might be some truth in it, you have declared yourself right and the universe wrong.

Based on your description of your approach 'bold', you see your approach as virtuous.

Here is an interesting truth......not one active abuser (wife beater, child beater, those who commit assault) believe they are in the wrong. Instead, they truly believe they are providing a service or fulfilling the duties of their role in the family. I am not calling you a criminal Tom, but you do suffer from the same blindness in this area.

Ok, enough truth-telling.

Shep you have a kind heart!

 

[avoice]

Unbelievable! Kicking a guy in the ass on his way out.....
This behavior is why Christians are reviled - we place doctrinal correctness ahead of people.
I am starting to believe this is the definition of legalism.

That was not my intent at all Aspen but to explain why they get attacked if you got that or JD did I humbley apoligize

 

[tomwebster]

There is at my last count 11 open current threads about arguing Pre trib Rapture
does anyone remember the OP its why JD is leaving ....
Not about the merits or punishment of Pre Trib
JD is leaving because he get attacked for Pre trib belief .... Now why is he attacked ? ...

I will say again

THERE IS NO PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE ANYWHERE never was
AND NOT EVEN PRE TRIB TEACHERS AND PREACHERS SAY IT IS WRITTEN.

They say its implied and give verse's to support this implication.

Now if one is of a mind to beilve what is said to be implicated ...so be it ....its their buisness.. and their reward or punishment is God buisness not ours

What the issue here is:

Pretrib believers say that these implied verse's should be held as biblical facts of something
THATS NOT WRITTEN in the first place....

Wether they are right or wrong isnt the issue,
wether they will follow antichrist or not isnt the issue,
wether they will be judged or not is not the issue ....

The only issue in this topic I see is .....
Should any unwritten words, and the verse's said to support these implications ..be considered as scripture ?

It is Pre tribers asking Bible students to accept this premise thats the problem.


The Bible speaks of two comings of Christ a fist and a second thats it

anything else is a matter of personal belief of you and your church ...Not a biblical one.

If everyone respected this fact we wouldnt have these useless never ending arguments
What one believes is not the same issue as what is written.

Believe what you ever you choose but dont get upset with those who wont study or accept your beliefs or those of your church ......as the written Word of God .

avoice, I guess I'm not sure what you intensions were for this post, I might have misunderstood what you were trying to do. I think you have agreed with those of us that see the "rapture" is a false doctrine, correct? You might have been pointing out the fact that most of the current pre-trb Rapture posts have been started be Rapture members.

 

[aspen]

That was not my intent at all Aspen but to explain why they get attacked if you got that or JD did I humbley apoligize

I re-read your post after you responded and I need to apologize to you.

I am sorry I mis-read your post - I was jumping to my own conclusions


blessings

 

[goodshepard55]

Excuse me, but I feel I must say something here,

Shep, you're first statement shows two opposing clauses, which is a sign that you really haven't understood Scripture of what the Antichrist is coming to do.

For if one does "read the scriptures and understand the time and the events" they will know that it does matter very much to get the timeline of Christ's return and our gathering correct. It's the very reason our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave us so many warnings about the times and the seasons of His coming.

Darling you can say anything you like...however, please don't assume you know me or my knowledge or lack of knowledge on scripture....If you are so concerned that you will be lead astray by the antichrist...I can only assume you do not know scripture....See, I have no knowledge of your scriptural background.....or how much you understand or don't understand....I do believe we know what to expect from the Word of God...and if we are so foolish to fall for the lies and pretty wrappings coming to tempt us in those days...well we never knew the Truth then....

JD...sweetheart...we have been here in topics like this before and had the nastiness come out and things get heated....the battle belongs to God....However, people get very upset when topics bring questions to their minds and it challenges their beliefs...so they strike back with the only things they have..... by twisting scripture to fit their thinking....Now we both know the only thing that will guarantee a trip to the pits of hell is not accepting Jesus as Lord and King....So get your backside back in here and I am trying to bring more of the troop here...much is to be done....

 

[tomwebster]

Darling you can say anything you like...however, please don't assume you know me or my knowledge or lack of knowledge on scripture....If you are so concerned that you will be lead astray by the antichrist...I can only assume you do not know scripture....See, I have no knowledge of your scriptural background.....or how much you understand or don't understand....I do believe we know what to expect from the Word of God...and if we are so foolish to fall for the lies and pretty wrappings coming to tempt us in those days...well we never knew the Truth then....

JD...sweetheart...we have been here in topics like this before and had the nastiness come out and things get heated....the battle belongs to God....However, people get very upset when topics bring questions to their minds and it challenges their beliefs...so they strike back with the only things they have..... by twisting scripture to fit their thinking....Now we both know the only thing that will guarantee a trip to the pits of hell is not accepting Jesus as Lord and King....So get your backside back in here and I am trying to bring more of the troop here...much is to be done....

veteran will not be deceived because veteran knows the Word of God. We are concerned for the many souls the false doctrine being taught on this board will lead astray. You also need to understand the purpose of the millennium. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. Those being taught will be spiritually dead until they are tested at the end of the millennium. If they don’t pass the final test they will cease to exist.

 

[rockytopva]

veteran will not be deceived because veteran knows the Word of God. We are concerned for the many souls the false doctrine being taught on this board will lead astray. You also need to understand the purpose of the millennium. It will be a time of teaching and discipline. Those being taught will be spiritually dead until they are tested at the end of the millennium. If they don’t pass the final test they will cease to exist.

tomwebster = false doctrine..

 

[goodshepard55]

This has got to be one of the funnest threads I have read on this board......Mercy...Do you Tom really want us to believe that you are here out of concern for the many souls that are on here......

Honey no need to worry about that...God is in the Soul Business not us.....all we can do is state the scriptures that support our opinions...and leave the rest up to the Lord

 

[tomwebster]

This has got to be one of the funnest threads I have read on this board......Mercy...Do you Tom really want us to believe that you are here out of concern for the many souls that are on here......

Honey no need to worry about that...God is in the Soul Business not us.....all we can do is state the scriptures that support our opinions...and leave the rest up to the Lord

No, I am not concern about what you believe, I'm more concerned for those that want to hear the truth and are not filled up with the tradition of man.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

1 Corinthians 13

Love Is the Greatest
[sup]1[/sup] If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. [sup]2[/sup] If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. [sup]3[/sup] If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it; but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing. [sup]4[/sup] Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud [sup]5[/sup] or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. [sup]6[/sup] It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. [sup]7[/sup] Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

[sup]8[/sup] Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! [sup]9[/sup] Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! [sup]10[/sup] But when full understanding comes, these partial things will become useless.

[sup]11[/sup] When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. [sup]12[/sup] Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.[sup][c][/sup] All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.

[sup]13[/sup] Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

 

[veteran]

Darling you can say anything you like...however, please don't assume you know me or my knowledge or lack of knowledge on scripture....If you are so concerned that you will be lead astray by the antichrist...I can only assume you do not know scripture....See, I have no knowledge of your scriptural background.....or how much you understand or don't understand....I do believe we know what to expect from the Word of God...and if we are so foolish to fall for the lies and pretty wrappings coming to tempt us in those days...well we never knew the Truth then....

We don't have to personally know a person to realize whether or not what they speak aligns with God's Word or not.

Understanding God's Word about Christ's coming and our gathering to Him after the tribulation per Matt.24 is not a difficult Truth in God's Word. When someone disagrees with it as written, they aren't disagreeing with those who do heed it as written. They are disagreeing with The Word of God.

And that's something some here need to get straight, instead of claiming a bunch falseness of how they've been mistreated simply for pushing their 'opinion' of the pre-trib rapture doctrine. That's the oldest child trick in the book, break down crying when someone doesn't let you have your way. It's a huge sign of immaturity.

 

[veteran]

JD's point is that many of those here who disagree with his belief in the Pre-Tribulation rapture didn't treat him as a brother.

The attacks on those who believe the Pre-Tribulation have not been kind and do not reflect well on the body of believers.

That exactly is one of things I'm talking about, trying to use a false idea of persecution when pre-trib believers here on this board have been just as guilty, and in some cases more... guilty when a post-trib believer tries to get them to stay focused within simple Scripture. Even with Joshua and I, we were pretty well reasonable with each other when debating the pre-trib rapture, but he ended it before I had a chance to give all the Scripture evidences that I wanted to show for the post-trib view in Scripture.

 

[australia]

JD is leaving...

...because he's been raptured?

 

[goodshepard55]

We don't have to personally know a person to realize whether or not what they speak aligns with God's Word or not.

Understanding God's Word about Christ's coming and our gathering to Him after the tribulation per Matt.24 is not a difficult Truth in God's Word. When someone disagrees with it as written, they aren't disagreeing with those who do heed it as written. They are disagreeing with The Word of God.

And that's something some here need to get straight, instead of claiming a bunch falseness of how they've been mistreated simply for pushing their 'opinion' of the pre-trib rapture doctrine. That's the oldest child trick in the book, break down crying when someone doesn't let you have your way. It's a huge sign of immaturity.

Darling I have not said whether I am pre trib or post trib...does not matter either way...and I don't believe I have post any other opinion on the rapture except to say it does not depend on us getting to heaven...nor posted any scripture for or against....I am simply stating that a brother has felt he is not welcome here by the treatment of his opinions....When someone has been made to feel what they hold in their heart on the Word of God is dear to them.... inferior or not worthy and made to feel like their peers are strongly suggesting their on a one way train to hell ...and for others to try and force their opinions on others and when they do not change their opinions...to suggest they are babes or do not understand God's word or in simply language ...made to feel as others are condemning them for their opinions....debating a topic is one thing...however to make one feel inferior or unwelcome is down right NASTY....

Most of the time anyone can say anything to me and I just turn the other cheek, does not bother me in the least..I know where I am in the Lord Jesus, I know who I am to Him, I know my authority...I know His Word....so yes most of the time it is laughable to me....But when others try to tear down a brother or sister in Christ...I happen to get very upset because it makes my heart hurt to see people that are suppose to love each other go out of their way to be cruel, nasty and then try to turn the tables as if butter would not melt in their mouth....To me they might know the Word of God, but sure as heck can not walk it....so instead of trying to tell me I don't know God's Word or trying to tell me I am claiming falseness or I am immature...sugar you should be asking God and someone else to forgive you....you nor anyone else on here has all the answers on God's Word....I don't ...you don't...but I can tell you one thing...we ALL can be wrong...You are not loved by God more than me nor are you loved less.....and sugar go back to the op and see this was about someone leaving not the rapture being true or false or before the tribulation or after....it is about being made to feel as he was going to hell for his opinions on the rapture...and sweetheart that ain't gonna happen ...........all our opinions will not get us in heaven...all our works will not get us to heaven...only one thing will....Accepting Christ as our Lord and Savior.... now you show me scripture where that is false....cause sugar you can not....