Why do Catholics…

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Marymog

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Necromancy does not belong in the minds of God's people.....it is the practice of pagans, call it by whatever name you want.
You dodged the questions by changing the subject. Necromancy has nothing to do with what I asked you or what we are discussing
One more try dodgeball: Do you have great respect for the Mother of God who is 'highly favored and blessed among women' (Luke 1:28)? Do you think the NT Christians did? So that we are on the same page: How do YOU define veneration?
 

Marymog

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Pay attention...

I posted a comment.
You copied a portion of my post and responded to it.
Post # 368

If you were not responding to what I said...why take only that portion of my comment....post it...and go off on your negative response?
Hold on, HOLD ON. I want to understand what you are saying.

Me saying that you rely on you to properly interpret Scripture is a "negative response"????
 

Taken

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You and @Taken both believe you are right in your interpretation of Scripture but I am willing to bet my life that both of you disagree with each other even though both of you THINK (feel) like you are being guided by the Holy Spirit.

Absolutely I Believe God is Right, Jesus is Right and the source of Righteousness.

If that is to your disagreement...Seriously I do not care!
AND your little conniving plot to try and instigate @amadeus and my self to turn against each other....IS A FAIL!

Apparently, someone is wrong.

:rolleyes:
 
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Taken

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Yup, you answered me. You listen to God and Jesus. I got that message very clear. Sooooo you FEEL like you are listening to God/Jesus and @amadeus feels like he is listening to God/Jesus but both of you disagree with each other.

Soooo who is confused? God/Jesus or you and amadeus?

Maybe that voice you are hearing is the god of a different realm?

Have you ever seen one of those cutsie signs that say...
Go Jump in the Lake...?
 

Marymog

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* Thereafter Apostles began dying off.
* Thereafter Gentile men, Serving under the Apostles began changing Jesus’ Doctrine, Appointing additional men with Non scriptural Titles.
OK...soooo there were some false teachers in NT times after the Apostles died. After the death of the last Apostle who had the authority to decide if they were a false teacher or if they were adhering to the teaching of The Church?

Do you have a list OR writings from those false teachers? Were the writings of Clement of Rome, Polycarp and Ignatius false writings?
 

quietthinker

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You dodged the questions by changing the subject. Necromancy has nothing to do with what I asked you or what we are discussing
One more try dodgeball: Do you have great respect for the Mother of God who is 'highly favored and blessed among women' (Luke 1:28)? Do you think the NT Christians did? So that we are on the same page: How do YOU define veneration?
You call it a dodge when in fact it is you doing the dodging.
 
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Taken

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Hold on, HOLD ON. I want to understand what you are saying.

Me saying that you rely on you to properly interpret Scripture is a "negative response"????

Ever heard the saying;
Above your pay grade?
 

Marymog

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Absolutely I Believe God is Right, Jesus is Right and the source of Righteousness.

If that is to your disagreement...Seriously I do not care!
AND your little conniving plot to try and instigate @amadeus and my self to turn against each other....IS A FAIL!



:rolleyes:
You crack me up.....and you always have. If you can not see the fallacy of your argument I feel sorry for you.

What you are really saying here is that you believe that YOU believe that God and Jesus are giving you the right interpretation of Scripture. And this is what I have been saying all along...YOU trust YOU to come to the truth because YOU feel like They are talking to YOU.
 

Marymog

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You call it a dodge when in fact it is you doing the dodging.
One more try dodgeball: Do you have great respect for the Mother of God who is 'highly favored and blessed among women' (Luke 1:28)? Do you think the NT Christians did? So that we are on the same page: How do YOU define veneration?

If you don't answer this time it will be your 3rd dodge.....
 

amadeus

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Hey amadeus,

Nope, I never, not once, said I am right. I said The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of TRUTH, is right. The Church, who decides who is to be ex-communicated, is right. Whoever has the TRUTH and has the authority to enforce that Truth is right.
But you have decided who and what the Church is. Do you not consider yourself to be right in that?
Do you believe you are right (on doctrinal issues)?
Mary

I believe that when I in the Spirit and following the lead of the Spirit of God that I am right.
 
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amadeus

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You and @Taken both believe you are right in your interpretation of Scripture but I am willing to bet my life that both of you disagree with each other even though both of you THINK (feel) like you are being guided by the Holy Spirit.

Apparently, someone is wrong.
I believe that most believing people quench the Holy Spirit at times and when they do... they are following the wrong head and are wrong. That would certainly include me. The Church is not the Head! Jesus is the Head!

Are all practicing Catholics always following Jesus?

What did Jesus' prayer for us accomplish?

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." John 17:20-23

Was Jesus not a righteous man?

"... The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much." James 5:16
 

quietthinker

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One more try dodgeball: Do you have great respect for the Mother of God who is 'highly favored and blessed among women' (Luke 1:28)? Do you think the NT Christians did? So that we are on the same page: How do YOU define veneration?

If you don't answer this time it will be your 3rd dodge.....
Your demands define you irrespective of what label you give others.
 
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Taken

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You crack me up.....and you always have. If you can not see the fallacy of your argument I feel sorry for you.

What you are really saying here is that you believe that YOU believe that God and Jesus are giving you the right interpretation of Scripture. And this is what I have been saying all along...YOU trust YOU to come to the truth because YOU feel like They are talking to YOU.
[/QUOTE]

Wow...shocking. You actually figured it out. Nothing I have not plainly said.
And...not shocking YOU do not believe, Gods Understanding of Gods Word, comes from God, just as Scripture teaches.

Scripture IS NOT of men’s private’s interpretation.
Seems you never learned where Gods interpretation, Gods understanding of His own words comes from!

Some dead students of the Apostles?
 

Taken

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One more try dodgeball: Do you have great respect for the Mother of God who is 'highly favored and blessed among women' (Luke 1:28)? Do you think the NT Christians did? So that we are on the same page: How do YOU define veneration?

If you don't answer this time it will be your 3rd dodge.....

Dodgeball is a game. Your game playing is old and boring.
Open the Bible, read.
God is without beginning, without a mother!
Mary a human maiden, was highly favored, and just before she was told she was highly favored, she was told WHY. Luke 1;27.
Odd the Catholics missed Mary’s highly favoritism was her being betrothed to Joseph, of the House of David.
Jesus is Lawfully entitled to sit on King Davids Throne BECAUSE OF Joseph’s lineage!
And Oddly Catholics make statues of a woman they never saw, (nor do such statues look like a woman of the Jewish race,) and bow down to those statues.

Seeing How you trust to believe, Students of the Apostles teaching.......where did God, did Jesus, did the Apostles teach ANYTIME anywhere to build statues of Mary or anyone, and bow down before them?
 

Illuminator

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Dodgeball is a game. Your game playing is old and boring.
Open the Bible, read.
God is without beginning, without a mother!
Mary a human maiden, was highly favored, and just before she was told she was highly favored, she was told WHY. Luke 1;27.
Odd the Catholics missed Mary’s highly favoritism was her being betrothed to Joseph, of the House of David.
Jesus is Lawfully entitled to sit on King Davids Throne BECAUSE OF Joseph’s lineage!
And Oddly Catholics make statues of a woman they never saw, (nor do such statues look like a woman of the Jewish race,) and bow down to those statues.

Seeing How you trust to believe, Students of the Apostles teaching.......where did God, did Jesus, did the Apostles teach ANYTIME anywhere to build statues of Mary or anyone, and bow down before them?
Only STUPID people think that veneration of wood or plaster is worship. Here's a clue: we venerate who the statue represents, not the statue itself. Your stupid insults are automatic with you.
You objection to bowing (as an act of veneration) is not biblical. You've invented a new man made tradition.

Deut. 5:9 – God’s command, “you shall not bow down to them” means “do not worship them.” But not all bowing is worship. Here God’s command is connected to false worship.

Rev. 3:9 – Jesus said people would bow down before the faithful members of the church of Philadelphia. This bowing before the faithful is not worship, just as kissing a picture of a family member is not worship.

Gen. 19:1 – Lot bowed down to the ground in veneration before two angels in Sodom.

Gen. 24:52 – Abraham’s servant bowed himself to the earth before the Lord.

Gen. 42:6 – Joseph’s brothers bow before Joseph with the face to the ground.

Jos. 5:14 – Joshua fell to the ground prostrate in veneration before an angel.

1 Sam. 28:14 – Saul bows down before Samuel with his face to the ground in honor and veneration.

1 Kings 1:23 – the prophet Nathan bows down before King David.

2 Kings 2:15 – the sons of the prophets bow down to Elisha at Jericho.

1 Chron. 21:21 – Ornan the Jebusite did obeisance to king David with his face to the ground.

1 Chron. 29:20 – Israelites bowed down to worship God and give honor to the king.

2 Chron. 29:29-30 – King Hezekiah and the assembly venerate the altar by bowing down in worship before the sin offerings.

Tobit 12:16 – Tobiah and Tobit fell down to the ground in veneration before the angel Raphael.

Judith 14:7 – Achior the Ammonite kneels before Judith venerating her and praising God.

Psalm 138:2 – David bows down before God’s Holy Temple.

Dan. 2:46 – the king fell down on his face paying homage to Daniel and commands that an offering be made to him.

Dan. 8:17 – Daniel fell down prostrate in veneration before the angel Gabriel.
SAINTS AND INTERCESSORY PRAYER - Scripture Catholic

“Catholics worship statues!” People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: “You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them” (Ex. 20:4–5).

It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.

Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, “God has forbidden the use of images in worship” (281). Yet if people were to “search the scriptures” (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!

God Said to Make Them
People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: “And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be” (Ex. 25:18–20).

David gave Solomon the plan “for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all” (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, “On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim.”

The Religious Uses of Images
During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to “make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live” (Num. 21:8–9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these “graven” images, they would be practicing the “idolatry” of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images.

It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus, when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named “Nehushtan”), the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).
Do Catholics Worship Statues?.

Where in the Bible is Scripture in art form forbidden? NOWHERE.
Where in the Bible is the command for bare white walls in places of worship? NOWHERE.

27905656.Reformateurs_1.jpg


At the centre of the monument, four 5 metre-tall statues of Calvinism's main proponents are depicted:


But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations.
 

Marymog

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....And Oddly Catholics make statues of a woman they never saw, (nor do such statues look like a woman of the Jewish race,) and bow down to those statues.

Seeing How you trust to believe, Students of the Apostles teaching.......where did God, did Jesus, did the Apostles teach ANYTIME anywhere to build statues of Mary or anyone, and bow down before them?
Hey Taken,

Well, The Church doesn't have any doctrine that says one must bow down to or build a statue! Soooooo what's your point? Do you want to talk about doctrines that The Church does have and discuss those? Or do you wish to continue going on tangents that are off topic?

Yup, I trust and believe what the students of the Apostles teach over what YOU teach? That is a no brainer!! :rolleyes: Who do you "trust to believe"? (i know, i know, you trust you)

Also, some of your fellow Protestant brothers and sisters "make statues of a woman they never saw"! When you articulate your complete and utter disdain for people building statues to honor the Mother of God then please include your Protestant brethren in your criticism. I am not sure why any Christian would criticize another Christian for honoring the Mother of God....but hey, to each his own.

Curious Mary
 
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theefaith

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So, you believe you are right. Solomon wrote 3000 years ago that every man believed himself to be right. Apparently, someone is wrong.

Should I change my beliefs simply because you say it is the best thing to do? If not for that reason, then why?

Christ founded the church to teach all men matt 16;18 Matt 28:19
 

theefaith

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Briefly;
* There was A Chief Priest Appointed by God, (Aaron), thereafter that Aarons sons, (according to God,) thereafter the Levite’s, (traveling Priests) there after Levite in the Synagogs.
*During the days of the Synagogs, Jesus’ arrived and personally taught His chosen disciples to Be Apostles and go and teach in the Synagogs.
* Also during the days of Jesus, The Roman Government Magistrate (in charged of overseeing Jesus’ trial) Appointed a Roman Gentile, as the pseudo “chief priest” over the trial.
* Thereafter the Apostles were sent teaching, starting, Churches, and they began appointing Gentiles to Church leadership positions.
* Thereafter Jesus Appointed Saul/Paul as Jesus’ Servant to Preach to the Gentiles.
* Thereafter Apostles began dying off.
* Thereafter Gentile men, Serving under the Apostles began changing Jesus’ Doctrine, Appointing additional men with Non scriptural Titles.
* So there ya go....the Divided Catholics, with their titles, and Doctrine.
* And the Divided Protestants, with Jesus’ Doctrine.

Christ is not a Levite but of Judah
And high priest not according to Arron but melchisedec so there Must be low priests of the same order