Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[Eternally Grateful]

The people who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Roman armies (Luke 21:20), who served as Prince Messiah's people to accomplish His purposes of judgment and desolation upon Jerusalem and Israel.

Scripturally and historically.

Success.

lol,

But it is that rinse who will commit the abomination which causes desolation, the same Abomination Jesus said they ill see standing in the holy place.

so it CAN’T Be Jesus

Unless you think Jesus will put an unclean thing in the holy place..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why am I being dishonest?

Because you're denying that an obvious prophecy (Genesis 3:15) is prophecy.

prophecy is God telling us events that will happen in the future.

That's what Genesis 3:15 does.

Jesus told them what Jesus would do.

by the way, You still have not responded to my post on Daniel 9. Why is that? Because you know I put your supposed theory about no gap in doubt?

LOL! I have responded to many posts and here you are complaining that I haven't responded to one particular post yet? You have to be kidding me. Maybe I missed it. Which post are you talking about? It should be very obvious by now that I don't ignore any posts or refrain from responding to your posts.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Malachi 3;1 The Jews knew who John was

Yes,

But it does not say when the messiah will be introduced.

when you look at prophecy, you want a sure thing, if you can not see it literally take place word for word as it says in prophecy, it probably is the wrong interpretation.

there is one prophecy in the OT that tells us when messiah will be introduced.. It says he will come to jerusalem on a donkey.

Zechariah 9:9

The Coming King​

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey

1. It says he brings there salvation. Jesus mentioned this after it happened. If they only knew gthe time of their salvation. But now it is hidden.

2. It tells them literally we en he will be announced and how.

this is the only prophecy which speaks of the messiah to the people. And how he will come. And who he is..





That your fulfillment.. there is no other possibility.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Technically you are placing a gap in the 70 weeks IF I am correct that verse 27 pertains to the 70th week, that none of it is meaning outside of the 70th week.

Honestly, I couldn't care less about that. All that means is that I disagree with your interpretation of that verse. But, my particular interpretation does not put a gap in the 70 weeks because it doesn't include "the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" as being part of the 70 weeks, but rather an eventual end result of what happened during the 70th week.

The way you and others are trying to get around that,

I'm not trying to get around anything. Can you try not saying nonsense like this when you post here?

not all of verse 27 involves events that take place during the 70th week. Only this part does---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

But not this part as well---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yet, if that part is indeed something that happens during the 70th week, and even if you are not applying that to 2000 years into the future but are only applying it to 70 AD instead, that still obviously equals a gap no matter how you look at it, per this scenario.

Yes, of course there would be a gap in that case, but I don't see it that way. So, I have no gap in my view which is all I care about. I don't care if my view would create a gap according to your view. Why should that matter to me?

The onus is on you to show in the prophecy itself that there is any indication whatsoever that it's not talking about a continuous 490 year time period by the end of which the things referenced in Daniel 9:24 would be fulfilled.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That isn't what I was talking about. I left out a detail in my post that I should have included there, so it would be more clear as to what I was talking about. I edited that post to make it more clear (post #191). What I was referring to was Truth7t7's claim that the part in Daniel 9:26 that refers to the Messiah being cut off is not a reference to the death of Jesus. I don't know how any Christian would not recognize that the Messiah being cut off is a reference to the death of Jesus on the cross.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

Who said he was right? I did not. So i am confused as to why you are mentioning me,

I am talking about the rest of your interpretation

You cant say any christian should see, when you yourself have trouble seeing..

in other words.. just stick to facts no need for all the strawman

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, it isn't. You are adding to scripture. There is no indication that the prophecy in Daniel 9 would extend beyond a continuous 70 week/490 year time period.

I never said it did. When the 70th week is completed, it will be completed. And everything which Gabriel said would happen, will have happened

They have not happened yet..

There was an allotted time period, 490 years, by the end of which the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 would be fulfilled. In particular, the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 had to be fulfilled by the end of that time period. And they were.

No they were not.

Thats the problem, Your taking a prophecy given to and concerning Israel and trying to make it fit the church. This is called replacement theology.. and is in error.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Because you're denying that an obvious prophecy (Genesis 3:15) is prophecy.

Its not.

That's what Genesis 3:15 does.


LOL! I have responded to many posts and here you are complaining that I haven't responded to one particular post yet? You have to be kidding me. Maybe I missed it. Which post are you talking about? It should be very obvious by now that I don't ignore any posts or refrain from responding to your posts.

Yet I have posted the same post twice now and you have yet to respond to it.

Do i have to post it a third time? You have heard the old saying, three strikes your out.. do I have to go to the three, or can you humble yourself and look back?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about that. All that means is that I disagree with your interpretation of that verse. But, my particular interpretation does not put a gap in the 70 weeks because it doesn't include "the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" as being part of the 70 weeks, but rather an eventual end result of what happened during the 70th week.


I'm not trying to get around anything. Can you try not saying nonsense like this when you post here?


Yes, of course there would be a gap in that case, but I don't see it that way. So, I have no gap in my view which is all I care about. I don't care if my view would create a gap according to your view. Why should that matter to me?

The onus is on you to show in the prophecy itself that there is any indication whatsoever that it's not talking about a continuous 490 year time period by the end of which the things referenced in Daniel 9:24 would be fulfilled.

How can you not see it that way, I have explained it in great detail twice now

oh wait, you keep ignoring that post!!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Who said he was right? I did not.

I didn't say that you said he was right. Good grief. Just stay out of that particular discussion if you can't understand what is being discussed.

So i am confused as to why you are mentioning me,

I wasn't mentioning you. Goodness sakes. I was talking to Truth7t7 when I said what I did and you decided to respond to what I said to him.

I am talking about the rest of your interpretation

You cant say any christian should see, when you yourself have trouble seeing..

I have no trouble seeing that the reference to the Messiah being cut off is a reference to the death of Jesus on the cross. Do you? Because that's what I was talking about. I've clarified that and you're still not getting it, so just bow out of this particular discussion and I'll just talk to Truth7t7 about that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How can you not see it that way, I have explained it in great detail twice now

How can I not see what in what way exactly?

oh wait, you keep ignoring that post!!

What is wrong with you? Seriously. You're coming across as unhinged here. I respond to many posts and you know darn well I don't ignore posts. So, which post are you talking about? Maybe I missed it. The posts are coming fast and furious on here and I could have easily missed one. You are delusional if you think I'm afraid to address one of your posts.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Its not.

Yet I have posted the same post twice now and you have yet to respond to it.

Do i have to post it a third time? You have heard the old saying, three strikes your out.. do I have to go to the three, or can you humble yourself and look back?

Am I asking to much for you to tell me which post you're talking about here? I have responded to many of your posts, but you foolishly think I'm ignoring one of them for some inexplicable reason? What is wrong with you?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I never said it did.

You don't have to say it. Do you know what a 490 year continuous time period means? It means no gaps. But, you add a huge gap to the prophecy. You have so much trouble understanding what is being talked about here. I think you are in over your head here.

When the 70th week is completed, it will be completed.

It already was completed. There is no indication whatsoever that there would be a gap in the prophecy. You are adding that to the scripture.

And everything which Gabriel said would happen, will have happened

They have not happened yet..

No they were not.

Thats the problem, Your taking a prophecy given to and concerning Israel and trying to make it fit the church. This is called replacement theology.. and is in error.

That is wrong. All you have to offer is lies. I'm talking about what Jesus did to fulfill the prophecy and He did it for Israel. It just so happens that He also did it for everyone else, but no one is being replaced here. When someone has to resort to blatant lies like this, you know you have nothing to support your doctrine. You instead desperately lie in an attempt to make the opposing doctrine look bad. But, anyone with discernment can see through that.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Imagination.

The birth, ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ were all physical and spiritual events.

So was the destruction of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21 said otherwise. The temple, sacrifice, city, woman, people, congregation, etc. points to Christ. Funny, that you said, "and spiritual events".

 

[Truth7t7]

The new covenant made half way through the week is active until the end.

Your claim has 33AD calvary in the new covenant being the 70th week, when scripture states after 62 weeks Messiah is Cut Off, Messiah isn't Cut Off in the 70th week

You openly stated the consummation is the second coming and end, and you run from the fact the consummation is seen in Daniel 9:27

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I didn't say that you said he was right. Good grief. Just stay out of that particular discussion if you can't understand what is being discussed.

I was not discussing that discussion.

i was just telling you to practice what you preach.

I wasn't mentioning you. Goodness sakes. I was talking to Truth7t7 when I said what I did and you decided to respond to what I said to him.


I have no trouble seeing that the reference to the Messiah being cut off is a reference to the death of Jesus on the cross. Do you? Because that's what I was talking about. I've clarified that and you're still not getting it, so just bow out of this particular discussion and I'll just talk to Truth7t7 about that.

Lol

I reiterate practice what you preach..

don’t tell someone else to do something, when you have not done it yourself.

forgive me if you have not figured out what I was saying yet. I hope now you do.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim has 33AD calvary in the new covenant being the 70th week, when scripture states after 62 weeks Messiah is Cut Off, Messiah isn't Cut Off in the 70th week

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The "threescore and two weeks" comes right after the "seven weeks", so that means it's saying the Messiah would be cut off after the first 69 weeks were completed. It doesn't indicate how long after that He would be cut off. So, it only follows that since He would be cut off after the first 69 weeks have finished, He would be cut off some time during the 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I was not discussing that discussion.

i was just telling you to practice what you preach.

I do. Thanks.

Lol

I reiterate practice what you preach..

don’t tell someone else to do something, when you have not done it yourself.

forgive me if you have not figured out what I was saying yet. I hope now you do.

What are you talking about? Can you try being specific so I don't have to guess as to what you're talking about here? I hope I'm not asking too much. What exactly am I preaching that I'm supposedly not practicing?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

This 3.5 year tribulation is this supposed to be meaning the last half of this literal 490 days? That it involves this 3.5 years tribulation? If yes, was math anything you were ever any good at? You do know how many years 490 literal days involve, right? It's around 1.36 years if we assume 360 day years. It's around 16.3 months if we assume 30 day months. And look what you are doing here, lol, you're trying to fit something into something it can't even fit. You would have us believe that 3.5 years can fit 245 literal days? It can't even fit 490 literal days, let alone half of that. Why others are wasting time debating this nonsense with you is beyond me?

Nice job of illustrating just how nonsensical his view of the 70 weeks as being 490 literal days really is. And you ask a good question here that I can't really answer. I don't know why I bother wasting time refuting something that only he believes. There's really no point in doing that. It's not as if I have any concern that he'll convince someone else to agree with him on that nonsense. So, I'm going to try to just let that go from now on. If he wants to insist on believing something that can't possibly be true without violating basic math, I can't stop him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How can I not see what in what way exactly?


What is wrong with you? Seriously. You're coming across as unhinged here. I respond to many posts and you know darn well I don't ignore posts. So, which post are you talking about? Maybe I missed it. The posts are coming fast and furious on here and I could have easily missed one. You are delusional if you think I'm afraid to address one of your posts.

OMG

i do not know if you are being serious and just overlooked it. Or are still trying to act like you did nto see it because you do not want to answer It.

Post 142

Again, How can you look at the passage and say this?

25. Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem

This was fulfilled in Neh 2 when Nehimiah was given the command to restor Jerusalem

Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The [h]street shall be built again, and the [i]wall,
Even in troublesome times.

This was fulfilled when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey as the prophet prophesied his entrance

Zechariah 9:9

The Coming King​

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey

Also note Up until this time, jesus continued to say, it is not my time yet. This is what he was talking about. He could not enter jerusalem as king until his time.

Up until now. 69 weeks (7 plus 62) has been literally fulfilled. You would think the 70th week would start the next day. However what does the text say


26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

The first event after the 69th week, is messiah would be cut off. This happened immediately after he entered jerusalem as he was arrested, tried and crucified.

then there is another event


And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

This happens after Jesus is cut off. almost 40 years later.. Yet we still have not begun the 70th week yet

This destruction will not just be an event, it will continue for a time

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The end of this destruction will come at a time when these war desolations, which continue today, are determined to continue.

We still have not started the 70 weeks, yet we have 2000 years almost since the 69th week ended..

No Gap???

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

here we have the beginning of the 70th week. We do not know what covenant, or even literally who confirms it, all we know is that he comes from rome, as he is the prince of the people who destroyed the city of Jerusalem.

What happens during this 70th week?


But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

1. In the middle of the week is this abomination which causes desolation. This causes sacriice and burnt offering to cease.
2. Jesus gave a warning, when you see this, Then run, because then there will be great tribulation such as has never been seen before.
3. We also know this great tribulation will be so severe, that nothing on earth has been like it before or after, So bad is it that all life on earth is threatened (see matt 24)
4. We know that this will culminate in the return of the king, jesus himself. Who the kings of the earth will witness his return and his destruction of the gentile rulers (at this time, Dan 2, Dan 7 Dan 9 Dan 11 and Dan 12 will be fulfilled.)

non of this has happened yet? Why? Because it is NOT YET FULFILLED

So please. Stop saying there is no GAP and stop mocking people who believe it is. Because in reality, the fact you can not see a GAP is really amazing, if we get down to it

I quoted myself again in post 186, and asked you to respond to it.

@Spiritual Israelite

No comment on the above message?

Silence speaks loudly

Now here is the third time, PS. I have looked at every post you have made since post # 142 and you have yet to even mention it.

so here, This will be the third time, are you still going to ignore it?

In response your post n which you said that there is NOTHING IN THE TEXT THAT WOULD EVEN SUGGEST A GAP. I wrote this (again for the third time)

Again, How can you look at the passage and say this?

25. Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command to restore Jerusalem

This was fulfilled in Neh 2 when Nehimiah was given the command to restor Jerusalem

Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The [h]street shall be built again, and the [i]wall,
Even in troublesome times.

This was fulfilled when Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey as the prophet prophesied his entrance

Zechariah 9:9

The Coming King​

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey

Also note Up until this time, jesus continued to say, it is not my time yet. This is what he was talking about. He could not enter jerusalem as king until his time.

Up until now. 69 weeks (7 plus 62) has been literally fulfilled. You would think the 70th week would start the next day. However what does the text say


26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

The first event after the 69th week, is messiah would be cut off. This happened immediately after he entered jerusalem as he was arrested, tried and crucified.

then there is another event


And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

This happens after Jesus is cut off. almost 40 years later.. Yet we still have not begun the 70th week yet

This destruction will not just be an event, it will continue for a time

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

The end of this destruction will come at a time when these war desolations, which continue today, are determined to continue.

We still have not started the 70 weeks, yet we have 2000 years almost since the 69th week ended..

No Gap???

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

here we have the beginning of the 70th week. We do not know what covenant, or even literally who confirms it, all we know is that he comes from rome, as he is the prince of the people who destroyed the city of Jerusalem.

What happens during this 70th week?


But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.”

1. In the middle of the week is this abomination which causes desolation. This causes sacriice and burnt offering to cease.
2. Jesus gave a warning, when you see this, Then run, because then there will be great tribulation such as has never been seen before.
3. We also know this great tribulation will be so severe, that nothing on earth has been like it before or after, So bad is it that all life on earth is threatened (see matt 24)
4. We know that this will culminate in the return of the king, jesus himself. Who the kings of the earth will witness his return and his destruction of the gentile rulers (at this time, Dan 2, Dan 7 Dan 9 Dan 11 and Dan 12 will be fulfilled.)

non of this has happened yet? Why? Because it is NOT YET FULFILLED

So please. Stop saying there is no GAP and stop mocking people who believe it is. Because in reality, the fact you can not see a GAP is really amazing, if we get down to it

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The blood of bulls and goat NEVER took away sin.

In fact, the very high priest that did the sacrifice on that day was lost. As he had rejected Gods provision, and had Jesus crucified.

Yes I am being literal. Anyone who reads prophesy should be literal. You can not be too literal. Failure to do so will cause you to miss What God is saying.

He said THEY WILL CEASE.. THEY DID NOT CEASE. HENcE THE PROPHECY WAS NOT FULFILLED.

You're not getting it. Of course the blood of bulls never took away sins. But, the old covenant animal sacrifices were REQUIRED by God up until Jesus made His once for all sacrifice. After that, they CEASED to be required. That's what the prophecy is about.

anyone who says otherwise, is misinterpreting prophecy!

Making claims like this is pointless. We all think that anyone who disagrees with our interpretations of prophecy is misinterpreting prophecy. That goes without saying. But, are you humble enough to acknowledge that you are giving your interpretations and not facts?

You don’t get it, Personal sin was not what Gabriel was talking about. He is talking about the particular sin that caused god to disperse them, and caused the city and sanctuary to remain desolate.

Wrong. All of the things listed in Daniel 9:24 are things that only Jesus could accomplish. And He did that by way of His death and resurrection.

Making an end of sin? Only Jesus could do that.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Make reconciliation for iniquity? Only Jesus could do that.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

If you want to know what sin, read lev 26..

lol. This is concerning DAVID’s PEOPLE.

Not the world.

Did Jesus not die for David's people? Of course He did. So, just because He also died for the rest of the world doesn't mean His death and resurrection can't relate to making and end of sin and bringing reconciliation for Israel.

DAVIDS PEOPLE still reject God. They are still in sin.. hence the 70 weeks are not fulfilled. Or God LIED.

there is no other option

No other option in your limited mind. Not all Israelites reject God. Why are you acting as if they all do? The prophecy isn't about what the people of Israel would do, it's about what Jesus would do for them.

If you think that making an end of sin is talking about the literal end of sin, then does this mean you don't believe the 70th week will end until after the thousand years and after Satan's little season? Sin will continue until that time.