Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[covenantee]

Well then consider me for calling you out for missing something that every christian should recognize.

The prince who is to come is NOT the messiah.

As for Truth7T7
, I stopped paying attention to him along time ago. He has some weird beliefs..

The prince that shall come is Messiah the Prince, who did come.

Messiah is the only individual identified as a prince in the passage.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why are you being so dishonest here? Had Genesis 3:15 been fulfilled yet when it was written? Obviously not. It talks about something that would happen in the future. You know what that's called? Prophecy. But, here you are denying that.

Why am I being dishonest?

prophecy is God telling us events that will happen in the future.

Jesus told them what Jesus would do.

by the way, You still have not responded to my post on Daniel 9. Why is that? Because you know I put your supposed theory about no gap in doubt?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The prince that shall come is Messiah the Prince, who did come.

Messiah is the only individual identified as a prince in the passage.

No it is not

By the time of the destruction of jerusalem, Messiah came and went. It did not say the price that came, it said the prince who would come.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The prince that shall come is Messiah the Prince, who did come.

Messiah is the only individual identified as a prince in the passage.

See my last post.

Your comment does not make sense more does it fit the passage..

Nice try

 

[TribulationSigns]

The prince that shall come is of the people who destroyed the temple and sanctuary, i.e. the Romans.

The problem is that you got the prince and the people all wrong. The WHOLE context of Daniel 9 is about God and HIS PEOPLE with Christ being Messiah the Prince. It is the same prince in all context. Not some third party or evil prince apart from Christ!

Jesus was a Jew, not a Roman.

Jesus was a Jew and the Jews are his people, the congregation that represented him. Daniel 9 is not about Romans at all!

The gap between the 69th week and the 70th week is the time of the Gentiles - controlling of Jerusalem, while the Jews were taken captives into the nations.

False Gap theory of the premillennialism.

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The Jews returned to the land of Israel, following WWII, and in 1948 became a nation again back in the land.

In 1967, the Jews regained control of Jerusalem, ending the time of the Gentiles.

People like you are reading into Matthew 24, Luke 21 and Mark 13 as if these are the prophesies only apply to Jews, physical city, physical country, physical temple in the Middle East. But this is NOT the case. After the fall of Old Testament congregation as a representation of God's Kingdom (ie. Matthew 24:1-2, etc.), Christ was prophesying about the fall of His New Testament congregation, the church, right in the end right before the Second Coming.

 

[covenantee]

No it is not

By the time of the destruction of jerusalem, Messiah came and went. It did not say the price that came, it said the prince who would come.

And He did come.

Some 535 years after Daniel's prophecy.

 

[wooddog]

wrong, It takes us up until the time he is introduced to the people of israel. Riding on a donkey

The anointing by John might be a better starting point. And 3 1/2 years later a reconciliation for iniquity.

 

[covenantee]

See my last post.

Your comment does not make sense more does it fit the passage..

Nice try

It makes complete sense.

Grammatically, Scripturally, and historically.

Success.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And He did come.

Some 535 years after Daniel's prophecy.

Yep

Before the people who destroyed the city. Who were the people who were of the prince who was YET to come

nice try

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The anointing by John might be a better starting point. And 3 1/2 years later a reconciliation for iniquity.

Nope

because 1 it does not fit the timeline, and 2. The OT did not say the people would know their messiah because he was baptized by some dude in the wilderness.

prophecy must fit.. we can;t make it fit our belief system, we have to make our belief system fit the word

 

[Davidpt]

Stop lying. It is a sin to lie. I do not put a gap into Daniel's 70 weeks. You are falsely representing my view. Are you so lacking in confidence in your own view that you have to resort to lying about my view? Pathetic.

Technically you are placing a gap in the 70 weeks IF I am correct that verse 27 pertains to the 70th week, that none of it is meaning outside of the 70th week. The way you and others are trying to get around that, not all of verse 27 involves events that take place during the 70th week. Only this part does---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease

But not this part as well---and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yet, if that part is indeed something that happens during the 70th week, and even if you are not applying that to 2000 years into the future but are only applying it to 70 AD instead, that still obviously equals a gap no matter how you look at it, per this scenario. But once again, the way you and others are trying to get around that is by making Gabriel look like someone who can't even remain consistent about anything.

Gabriel starts off by making it crystal clear to the reader that verse 25 is only focusing on the first 69 weeks, nothing outside of that. But then when he gets to what we know as verse 27, he switches gears all of a sudden. Now he is no longer being consistent. Now he's trying to confuse the reader. Instead of verse 27 only focusing on the 70th week the same way verse 25 is only focusing on the first 69 weeks and nothing outside of that, he is all all over the place in verse 27. First he is focusing on the 70th week itself, then out of nowhere he changes focus to something not even occurring during the 70th week.

It's funny how we sometimes complain, thus point it out, when one is not being consistent about things via the way they are interpreting what ever it might be at the time. Then we turn right around and have Gabriel doing exactly what we are complaining about, and that is, not being consistent about things.

The way Pretribbers apply this gap, clearly that has to be rejected. But that's not the only way to apply this gap, that if it means some of the 70th week is fulfilled in the future, that it has to be meaning in the literal sense involving the literal city Jerusalem and a literal rebuilt temple there. It's clearly involving a temple alright, and it is clearly involving the future, but not a rebuilt one in the future, but the same one 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is involving and what all that is connected with, then applying those things spiritually not literally.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It makes complete sense.

Grammatically, Scripturally, and historically.

Success.

Nope

Only in your mind.

those who actually study, would never see it this way unless they were taught that way..

 

[covenantee]

Yep

Before the people who destroyed the city. Who were the people who were of the prince who was YET to come

nice try

The people who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Roman armies (Luke 21:20), who served as Prince Messiah's people to accomplish His purposes of judgment and desolation upon Jerusalem and Israel.

Scripturally and historically.

Success.

 

[wooddog]

Nope

because 1 it does not fit the timeline, and 2. The OT did not say the people would know their messiah because he was baptized by some dude in the wilderness.

prophecy must fit.. we can;t make it fit our belief system, we have to make our belief system fit the word

Malachi 3;1 The Jews knew who John was

 

[wooddog]

The people who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Roman armies (Luke 21:20), who served as Prince Messiah's people to accomplish His purposes of judgment and desolation upon Jerusalem and Israel.

Scripturally and historically.

Success.

little prince satan

 

[covenantee]

little prince satan

Big Prince Messiah.

 

[TribulationSigns]

The people who destroyed the city and sanctuary were the Roman armies (Luke 21:20), who served as Prince Messiah's people to accomplish His purposes of judgment and desolation upon Jerusalem and Israel.

Scripturally and historically.

Success.

Failure.

Daniel 9:26

• "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Who are the people of the Prince who God said to destroy the City and Temple (John 2:19)? ...Is it the Romans of 70 AD, or is it the people of Messiah (read in context) whom He had come to save? Both the city and the Temple were destroyed and leveled so that there was nothing left of them IF we understand the prophecy as God intended, as the spiritual Temple And City Jerusalem that was "Completely" destroyed/removed from the people, where not one stone was left standing (The people of that Temple and City). Where the Temple and Holy City were rebuilt/restored in three days with lively stones (people), with Christ being the chief cornerstone of that rebuilding.

Selah! Read wisely:

Matthew 21:33-45

• "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
• And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
• And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
• Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
• But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
• But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
• And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
• When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
• They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
• Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

This is what the Lord is talking about. Christ and his Congregation! The Meaning of Christ's parable is clear. The city and people were destroyed completely, and Christ is the cornerstone of a rebuilding that is kept from the eyes of the obstinate. Nothing ot do with physical city and Roman soldiers!! It is written:

Acts 15:14-18

• "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
• And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
• After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
• That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
• Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world."

God did not have to wait until 70AD in order to have physical temple and city destoryed by Romans. This is NOT the case. Remember Christ rebuilt the temple in THREE DAYS, meaning that Old Testament congregation fell and their kingdom representative was taken from them and gave to the Church. The Church as already went into the world long before 70AD.

 

[covenantee]

Failure.

Daniel 9:26

• "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Who are the people of the Prince who God said to destroy the City and Temple (John 2:19)? ...Is it the Romans of 70 AD, or is it the people of Messiah (read in context) whom He had come to save? Both the city and the Temple were destroyed and leveled so that there was nothing left of them IF we understand the prophecy as God intended, as the spiritual Temple And City Jerusalem that was "Completely" destroyed/removed from the people, where not one stone was left standing (The people of that Temple and City). Where the Temple and Holy City were rebuilt/restored in three days with lively stones (people), with Christ being the chief cornerstone of that rebuilding.

Selah! Read wisely:

Matthew 21:33-45

• "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
• And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
• And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
• Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
• But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
• But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
• And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
• When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
• They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
• Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

This is what the Lord is talking about. Christ and his Congregation! The Meaning of Christ's parable is clear. The city and people were destroyed completely, and Christ is the cornerstone of a rebuilding that is kept from the eyes of the obstinate. Nothing ot do with physical city and Roman soldiers!! It is written:

Acts 15:14-18

• "Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
• And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
• After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
• That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
• Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world."

God did not have to wait until 70AD in order to have physical temple and city destoryed by Romans. This is NOT the case. Remember Christ rebuilt the temple in THREE DAYS, meaning that Old Testament congregation fell and their kingdom representative was taken from them and gave to the Church. The Church as already went into the world long before 70AD.

Imagination.

The birth, ministry, death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ were all physical and spiritual events.

So was the destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The prince that shall come is of the people who destroyed the temple and sanctuary, i.e. the Romans.

The prince who is to come is NOT the messiah.

That isn't what I was talking about. I left out a detail in my post that I should have included there, so it would be more clear as to what I was talking about. I edited that post to make it more clear (post #191). What I was referring to was Truth7t7's claim that the part in Daniel 9:26 that refers to the Messiah being cut off is not a reference to the death of Jesus. I don't know how any Christian would not recognize that the Messiah being cut off is a reference to the death of Jesus on the cross.

Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No

its right out of Daniel 9 and the rest of scripture

No, it isn't. You are adding to scripture. There is no indication that the prophecy in Daniel 9 would extend beyond a continuous 70 week/490 year time period. There was an allotted time period, 490 years, by the end of which the prophecy in Daniel 9:24-27 would be fulfilled. In particular, the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 had to be fulfilled by the end of that time period. And they were.