Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?
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2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Apparently, Peter agrees with you. I see it making zero sense that Peter was still looking for righteousness in the future if it was already there. Maybe there were no 21st century Christians around back then to tell him righteousness has already been brought in , everlasting righteousness on top of that, therefore, he is waiting in vain for something in the future since it is already here now. After all, what can trump everlasting righteousness? Can what Peter was looking for in the future trump it? Or is it more logical that what Peter was looking for in the future is this same everlasting righteousness that is brought in when the 70 weeks are finished, that these are one and the same?
Imagine this happening first---everlasting righteousness being brought in. Then later in the future the righteousness that Peter was still looking for, it is brought in. Implying that the former was not sufficient, that everlasting righteousness can actually be trumped with even better righteousness, apparently.
If the righteousness in the verses I cited was not everlasting righteousness, when did it end?
Truth7t7
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Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained "Future"?
Daniel's 70 weeks are literal 7 day periods, or 490 literal days.
If Daniel meant 490 years he would have written
(Four Hundred Ninety Years)
Daniel had no restrictions in "Writing" exact numerology as seen below.
Daniel 6:1KJV
It pleased Darius to set over the kingdom an hundred and twenty princes, which should be over the whole kingdom;
Daniel 8:14KJV
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Daniel 12:11KJV
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Below in Daniel 10:2-3 we see just another example of Daniel's literal weeks, as Daniel mourned and fasted for 3 literal weeks or 21 days.
Daniel 10:2-3KJV
2 In those days I Daniel was mourning three full weeks.
3 I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine in my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, till three whole weeks were fulfilled.
Below in Daniel 9:24-27 we see 70 literal "Future" weeks or 490 days.
When the "Future" call/commandment goes out in Jerusalem to build unto the Jewish Meshiach/Messiah that they wait for (They Denied Jesus Christ) this will start the 7 week period in preparing to build.
62 literal weeks will be in building, and Meshiach/Messiah will be cut off by the armies surrounding Jerusalem, this stops the building.
The 70th literal week will see (The Antichrist) revealed in making a covenant, and in the middle of this literal week he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate church, to start a Millennium on earth.
The 3.5 year tribulation starts at this time.
Daniel 9:24-27KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
If you can disprove Matthew 15:24, please do so.
Why are you such a coward about Genesis 3:15?
As to this, who knows, but maybe 21 years is meant? Back in those days some of those people could do some pretty extrordinary things at times. Take what Ezekiel did per the following, for example.
Ezekiel 4:4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
I can't see myself making it through an entire day of that, let alone how long Ezekiel had to do those things.
Speaking of everlasting righteousness, well we have this recorded in the OT, yet what Daniel 9:24 is pertaining is something that is not brought in until 70 weeks are accomplished first.
Psalms 119:142 ¶Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Right back at you with the same question. So when did this end? It must have ended if it needs to be brought in upon the completion of the 70 weeks. The point being, what you arguing is irrelevant since everlasting righteousness has existed the entire time, yet Peter was still looking for righteousness in the future, and that it has to be the same everlasting righteousness that is brought in upon the completion of the 70 weeks. So it is a matter of what is being meant by this and when is it initially applicable?
Eternally Grateful
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I do not look outside to see christ.
But I do know y looking outside. Gods promise is not yet fulfilled.
Oh it has been??
lol
whatever dude
Oh he is not a disappointment for me, I know he will do his plan. Sadly you think he will fail. He made promises he does not intend to keep etc etc
He still has more to accomplish, and nothing you say or do will stop him..
My God keeps his promises..
Eternally Grateful
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sadly people only see what they want to see,
It’s like the pharisee who say the miracles jesus performed. And hardened his heart because it did nto fit his belief system, So bad did it get that when jesus rose a man from the dead, that pharisee set out to Kill Jesus
its like jesus said, The blind he will make see, and those that think they see he has blinded.
That might be explained by doctrinal bias, which apparently only applies to someone such as you and me, but not them as well.
Keraz
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Inability to see or understand the Prophesies, is because God has locked people into their delusions.
People who choose to believe false teachings and wrong doctrines, have failed to properly study all the scriptures. For that omission, God's response is to make it very difficult to comprehend the Truths of Prophecy. Isaiah 29:9-12
The end times events will come as a nasty shock to most, especially to those fooled by the 'rapture to heaven' theory. When they remain on earth, as disaster strikes all around, they may renounce God for not doing what they expected Him to do.
It will be our great test of faith; 1 Peter 4:12
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
The 70 weeks must be over then.
Jesus was recognized as the Messiah at his baptism by his forerunner.
This is clearly stated to take place AFTER 69 weeks have passed.
24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to
finish the transgression,
to make an end of sins,
to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness,
to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God),
to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet,
and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it will be built again, with [a city] plaza and moat, even in times of trouble.
Jesus was Anointed at his baptism and began the ministry that Father had sent him to do.
Jn 17
4 I have glorified You [down here] on the earth by completing the work that You gave Me to do. 5 Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed.
The Lord accomplished all these points, not just one in the allotted 70 weeks.
He anointed the most Holy place and secured eternal redemption,
Heb 9
11 But when Christ appeared as a High Priest of the good things to come [that is, true spiritual worship], He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not a part of this [material] creation. 12 He went once for all into the Holy Place [the Holy of Holies of heaven, into the presence of God], and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, having obtained and secured eternal redemption [that is, the salvation of all who personally believe in Him as Savior].
24 For Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but [He entered] into heaven itself, now to appear in the very presence of God on our behalf; 25 nor did He [enter into the heavenly sanctuary to] offer Himself again and again, as the high priest enters the Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer over and over since the foundation of the world; but now once for all at the consummation of the ages He has appeared and been publicly manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And just as it is appointed and destined for all men to die once and after this [comes certain] judgment, 28 so Christ, having been offered once and once for all to bear [as a burden] the sins of many, will appear a second time [when he returns to earth], not to deal with sin, but to bring salvation to those who are eagerly and confidently waiting for Him.
It is finished (accomplished)
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
Everlasting righteousness is found on the NHNE because God tabernacles with redeemed man there.
Its all about his righteousness.
Phill 3
9 and may be found in Him [believing and relying on Him], not having any righteousness of my own derived from [my obedience to] the Law and its rituals, but [possessing] that [genuine righteousness] which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.
Spiritual Israelite
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Yes, I confirmed what I had already said several times. Congrats on reading what I said this time.
Not about this. You either have horrible reading comprehension skills or a terrible memory. Which is it?
First of all, what you need to recognize is that the "he" of verse 27 is referring back to the last individual who is in focus which is Messiah the Prince. Regardless of who the prince is in verse 26, the prince is not in focus in that verse. It says the people of the prince would destroy the city and the sanctuary. The prince is only mentioned there in order to indicate which people would be destroying the city and the sanctuary. So, there's no question that verse 27 is talking about Jesus since the Messiah is the last individual in focus in the prophecy before verse 27.
Also, to confirm the covenant for 1 week does not mean the covenant only lasts for 1 week. Even written the way it is does not imply what you think it means. You are just acting as if it says the covenant lasts for 1 week because of your doctrinal bias. It does not explicitly say that no matter how badly you want it to or how much you try to claim that it does.
No, it does not. That's ridiculous logic. All that says is what he would do in the middle of the time allotted to confirm the covenant. The duration of the covenant is not specified no matter how much you try to claim that it is.
There is nothing to indicate that seeing the abomination of desolation has to occur during the 70th week. That is your assumption based on your doctrinal bias.
You continue to make ridiculous comments. Who said the last 3.5 years is meaningless? No one. Why do you lie like that? I, and others, have said that the remaining 3.5 years consisted of the preaching of the gospel of Christ to the Israelites through the power of the Holy Spirit. That was part of confirming the new covenant.
You aren't even trying. Your beliefs are based entirely on speculation and assumptions. You interpret Daniel 9 in such a way that contradicts other scripture, but that means nothing to you, apparently.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
How do you interpret this verse:
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
How will the transgression be finished? What will the end of sins be made? How does reconciliation get made for iniquity? How will everlasting righteousness be brought in? How is the vision and prophecy sealed up? How is the most Holy anointed?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Did you have trouble understanding my question? Are you unable to answer it? Let me try again. How will reconciliation be made for iniquity? Once you answer that question, I will address what you said in your post.
I didn't want to overwhelm you by talking about all six things at once. I thought I'd make it simple by starting with one of them. I purposely picked the one that I believed you'd have the most trouble explaining away. So, can we just start there instead of trying to address all six things at once?
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
How can you not recognize that making reconciliation for iniquity is related closely to finishing the transgression and making an end of sins? Why would you think that Jesus would only fulfill one of the six things listed? You are far too literal for your own good. It causes you to have many false interpretations. To make an end of sins is the same as taking away sins. Did Jesus not accomplish that on the cross?
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
This is what finishing the transgression and making an end of sins is about. It's not talking about the literal end of sin. It's about Jesus making a way for people to have their sins taken away (forgiven).
Again you are taking this too literally. That is not about the literal bringing in of everlasting righteousness. If it was about that then the 70th week wouldn't end until the eternal new heavens and new earth were ushered in. Is that when you think the 70th week will end? I'm sure it isn't. So, your hyper-literal approach does not work here.
Bringing in everlasting righteousness has to do with making the way for everlasting righteousness to be possible which is what Jesus did with His death and resurrection. That provided the opportunity for eternal life and everlasting righteousness for those who believe in Him.
It's talking about the particular vision and prophecy, not literally all visions and prophecy. You again are taking the text too literally. You think that interpreting scripture is no different than reading a news article. But, scripture itself does not support that approach. Scripture itself says it must be spiritually discerned (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). That wouldn't be the case if it was all completely literal as you think it is.
You are sadly mistaken. He accomplished all of those things, as I have explained. How do you not know that Jesus was already anointed long ago? You need to start actually reading scripture and praying for understanding instead of making things up in your mind.
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, it looks like it is your belief that the 70th week won't end until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. In the literal sense that you are talking about, everlasting righteousness would not be brought in until a thousand years (plus Satan's little season) after the return of Christ. Is that when you think the 70th week will end? I'm pretty sure you don't. So, you might want to rethink your interpretation of what it means to bring in everlasting righteousness and think about whether or not it's talking about the literal bringing in everlasting righteousness or talking about the time when the opportunity for everlasting righteousness would be made possible (which Jesus did with His death and resurrection).
Assuming you are correct, why would the text list that last when it is the very first thing a view such as yours has being accomplished? You have that accomplished first, something last on the to do list, meaning there are still 5 more things to accomplish if that is accomplished first. Something not right about that picture, that the last thing on the list is the very first thing accomplished, being the point.
If I'm not mistaken I think some take the most holy to be meaning the most holy place. And if that is correct to do so, the OT never has the most holy place to be meaning a person as far as I can tell. Or if it does, I guess I never noticed.
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Even though I'm Premil, yet unlike typical Premils that don't agree that the 2nd coming is when the NHNE begin, I OTOH agree with Amils in this case, that it does. Right or wrong, at least it can fit my view. It can even fit your view except you seem unable or unwilling to interpret the 70 weeks in any other manner, thus it can only be interpreted in a Preterist manner. Anything else is out of the question, period.
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