Why are some interpreters not being honest with the text involving Daniel 9:27?

[jeffweeder]

Please give me "direct passage citation" to accout for the 483 years of building the wall and street covering the continous time before AD 33 Calvary in your suggested 70th week, waiting?

What scripture suggests that the rebuilding takes 483 years.?
As far as I can tell the decree is given to the exiles to return and rebuild, and then to expect Messiah after 7 and 62 weeks. The Prophets of that restoration period attest to this.

 

[Truth7t7]

What scripture suggests that the rebuilding takes 483 years.?
As far as I can tell the decree is given to the exiles to return and rebuild, and then to expect Messiah after 7 and 62 weeks. The Prophets of that restoration period attest to this.

We're on the third round, and no scripture is referenced nor recorded historical account has been given?

Do you believe the 69 weeks are literally 483 days or 483 years?

If days when did this 483 days of building start, no mention of this is in scripture prior to 33AD Calvary?

What exiles to return and rebuild for 483 days or 1.3 years prior to 33AD Calvary, please give scripture reference in support or a historical record explaining this time, waiting?

 

[jeffweeder]

We're on the third round, and no scripture is referenced nor recorded historical account has been given?

Do you believe the 69 weeks are literally 483 days or 483 years?

483 years. Decrees were given in Ezra and Nehemiah and the Israelites clearly returned to rebuild lol. Ezra returned in 457BC to restore proper worship. 483 years later brings you to 26 AD, the year Jesus was baptized and was recognized as the long-awaited Messiah.

(Remember Dan 9:25, 69 weeks until Messiah)
Jn 1
26 John answered them, “I baptize [only] in water, but among you there stands One whom you do not recognize and of whom you know nothing. 27 It is He [the preeminent One] who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie [even as His slave].” 28 These things occurred in Bethany across the Jordan [at the Jordan River crossing], where John was baptizing.

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel.” 32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have [actually] seen [that happen], and my testimony is that this is the Son of God!”

If days when did this 483 days of building start, no mention of this is in scripture prior to 33AD Calvary?

Clearly not future days as Jesus has already come and Atoned for sin.

24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God), to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it will be built again, with [a city] plaza and moat, even in times of trouble.

70 weeks for all those points, proving they were all fulfilled in the 70th week when Jesus arrived as Messiah after the 69 weeks.

 

[Truth7t7]

483 years. Decrees were given in Ezra and Nehemiah and the Israelites clearly returned to rebuild lol.

Thanks for the response, you believe 70 weeks means 490 years, the standard teaching in Dispensationalism

Once again please give the citations in Ezra and Nehemiah with the decree to build, thanks

 

[TribulationSigns]

More of blind leading the blind here.

 

[Davidpt]

Thanks for the response, you believe 70 weeks means 490 years, the standard teaching in Dispensationalism

Once again please give the citations in Ezra and Nehemiah with the decree to build, thanks

You seriously need to get with the program and maybe read Genesis 29 again, maybe even numerous mores times until you grasp what is meant by a week per some contexts such as Daniel 9. Guess what you are not going to find mentioned anywhere in Genesis 29? You are not going to find anything involving 7 literal days. But you will find things involving 7 literal years. You're intelligent. Pursue Genesis 29 like a good detective might and then see if it can be deduced anywhere in the text that a week is meaning 7 days rather than 7 years.

Where do you think the idea came from to begin with that the 70 weeks are meaning years not days, if not via Genesis 29 for one? Get back to us when you can find one single thing in Genesis 29 involving a week, where it can then be logically deduced that a literal 7 days is meant rather than 7 years.

 

[wooddog]

The leader/king of a future people a Jew and he will make a false covenant of peace with muslims that will surround a future Jerusalem with armies, in response to future Jews that have taken their holy mosque on the dome of the rock, to build a future Jewish Temple

This is the man of iniquity who declares himself the prince of God, the false messiah, a jew and the leader of the first beast of revelation 13.

 

[wooddog]

483 years. Decrees were given in Ezra and Nehemiah and the Israelites clearly returned to rebuild lol. Ezra returned in 457BC to restore proper worship. 483 years later brings you to 26 AD, the year Jesus was baptized and was recognized as the long-awaited Messiah.

(Remember Dan 9:25, 69 weeks until Messiah)
Jn 1
26 John answered them, “I baptize [only] in water, but among you there stands One whom you do not recognize and of whom you know nothing. 27 It is He [the preeminent One] who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie [even as His slave].” 28 These things occurred in Bethany across the Jordan [at the Jordan River crossing], where John was baptizing.

29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I and has priority over me, for He existed before me.’ 31 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah]; but I came baptizing in water so that He would be [publicly] revealed to Israel.” 32 John gave [further] evidence [testifying officially for the record, with validity and relevance], saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not recognize Him [as the Messiah], but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this One is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I myself have [actually] seen [that happen], and my testimony is that this is the Son of God!”

Clearly not future days as Jesus has already come and Atoned for sin.

24 “Seventy weeks [of years, or 490 years] have been decreed for your people and for your holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make atonement (reconciliation) for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness (right-standing with God), to seal up vision and prophecy and prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. 25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it will be built again, with [a city] plaza and moat, even in times of trouble.

70 weeks for all those points, proving they were all fulfilled in the 70th week when Jesus arrived as Messiah after the 69 weeks.

I have to ask what is the transgression and is it finished? Do the antichrist Jews still transgress the Law?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The feeling is mutual.


For one thing that wording is a bit awkward and can potentially be taken in multiple ways. Can you acknowledge that?

No. It says what it says, the only way I would try to take it any other way is to make it fit something I believe, but is not really in the text.

It could be taken to mean the covenant itself lasts for 1 week, as you do, but it also can be taken to be saying it will take 1 week to confirm a covenant of unspecified duration,

But it does not say that, That would be worded different, It would be worded something like and he will take 1 week to write up and confirm a covenant. Language does not support your notion

as I do. Not sure why you can't understand this. It must be your doctrinal bias preventing you from being objective.

Or maybe it is the word and the way it is written will not allow me to see this? That seems to be lost on people.

LOL. Of course not. Have you completely lost your mind at this point. Over and over again I have indicated that I believe Daniel 9:27 is talking about Jesus confirming the new covenant and you're asking me this question?

Thank you. You have confirmed what I have been saying, that you think this is Jesus. so I was correct in what I said.

yet you called me a liar. that is sad.

No, I'm saying He did and I've given an explanation for what I believe that means.

I have utterly no idea how you can come up with that explanation as it is written. there is no basis for it. (well there is one, but I already went down that rabbit trail)

Wake up and just read what I'm saying. It's not that hard.

Once again, When you read what is written, then you hear someone make an explanation that does not fit what is said in any way. you are going to question what that person is saying, That person should be humble enough to acknowledge this, and not say things like wake up.

You can say 2 + 2 = 5 until your blue in the face, anyone with a sense of math will tell you you are in error. 2 + 2 = 4. You telling them to wake up they are not listening to you, 2 + 2 = 5, well I hope you get the point.

The text says he (the prince who is to come) shall confirm a covenant for 1 week. 7 years.

We also look at the rest of the text. But in the middle of that week. he will do something

this shows that the covevant is a 1 week, or 7 year covenant.

and again, Jesus mentioned the abomination of desolation in Matt 24. and said when you see it run.

so there is absolutely nothing in the text to show that maybe just maybe he was writting the covenant for 7 years and confirmed it at the end (especially when you look, And you say Jesus confirmed it with his death, at 3.5 years in,, the last 3.5 years is meaningless. this also shows the issue with your thinking. and why I can not see it.

I have repeatedly indicated that I believe Daniel 9:27 is talking about Jesus confirming the eternal new covenant and that it took 7 years to confirm the new covenant. What is so hard to understand about that? Whether you agree with me or not, you should be able to understand what I'm saying.

Its hard to understand because there is nothing in the text to indicate that is even a remote possibility.

You want me to accept something that is not there. then get mad when I can not even contemplate that this is even a possibility.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The grammatical referent of the "He's" in verse 27 is "the prince" in verse 26, the referent of which is "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25.

Daniel 9 is all about Messiah the Prince.

No

Dan 9 is Daniel praying for his people and his Holy City because the 70 years is almost up and Israel had not repented yet. Daniel is being christlike and trying to make intecession for his people. and begs God to shew mercy on his people. and his holy city

Gabriel is sent to answer Daniels prayer, He even says, 70 weeks are determined FOR YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR HOLY CITY

That is the context, and what the whole message is about..

But I understand where your coming from. You reject the idea That God will restor Israel. so you can not accept that interpretation.. And thats fine..

Just don't expect people to come to your view. when they study and read the passage and can not see what you claim

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If Jesus has nothing to do with the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 (only talking about verse 24 itself here) as you seem to be saying, then tell me how reconciliation for iniquity can be accomplished apart from Jesus.

Did Jesus cause the sin of Israel to cease?

Come on man, There are how many things Gabriel said woud be accomplished by the end of the 70 weeks. You want to focus on 1. and claim that proves you right, Jesus must do everything?

Israel was punished for their sin.
Daniel prayed for God to show mercy on Israel and his city (jerusalem) called by His name
Gabriel was sent to give Daniel an answer, because God cares
Gabriel said, 70 weeks are determined for YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR HOLY CITY

Its not about the messiah, Its About the nation of Israel and the city of Jerusale, which in that day lay in ruins, and As the prophecy suggests, would be rebuilt. but then destroyed again, because Israel is still in sin.

but at the end of that 70 week period CONCERNING ISREAL AND JERUSALEM, They would make an end of their sin, repent, and be restored.

God is telling daniel WHEN these things will happen.

everything in the passage is to show daniel and those who read his words what will happen, when messiah will come (69 weeks) The fact that messiah will be cut off. The fact Jerusalem will again be destroyed by the people of a future prince. The fact that Jerusalem will lie desolate for a predetermined time only Known to God. the fact, that at a future day, That future prince will confirm some covenant for 7 years. But in the middle of that seven years. he will break his own covenant, and will place an abominable object in the holy place (an abomination of desolation) of the newly rebuilt temple causing sacrifice and burnt offering to cease. And he will be allowed to do this until a time determined,

We know from other prophets including other prophecies from daniel. at the end of this 3.5 year of desolation (tribulation) Christ will return, Israel will repent and prophecy will be fulfilled including the prophecy of the 70 weeks.

This is what the passage says, there is no other interpretation if one take it as written.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good question.
All 6points are accomplished by the cross of Jesus in the midst of the final week.

He took my iniquity , sin , transgressions upon himself and gave to me his everlasting righteousness. The holy Spirit then came upon the disciples to confirm the new cov for the second half of the week for Daniels people.

The Gospel then immediately went to the Gentiles.

This would be in error

To finish the transgression, - Israel is still in sin, this was not accomplished by Christ
[f]To make an end of sins, - There is only a remant of Isreal in this day, One day all Israel will be saved (romans 11) this was not fulfilled by CHrist.
To make reconciliation for iniquity, - Yes he did this
To bring in everlasting righteousness, - Look at the world. do you think this is accomplished?? if this is a peacful righteous world. I want nothing to do with it
To seal up vision and prophecy, - There is still alot of prophecy to be fulfilled yet. so no Jesus did not complete this on the cross
And to anoint [g]the Most Holy. - this will happen when in fulfilment of the davidic covenant, Jesus takes up residence in Jerusalem.

The messiah accomplished 1 thing out of al these on the cross..

 

[covenantee]

You can protest the rules of grammar all you want.

But you cannot change them.

Gabriel is sent to answer Daniels prayer, He even says, 70 weeks are determined FOR YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR HOLY CITY

SI and I have explained repeatedly how the ministries of Messiah and His disciples during the 70th week were to Israel, but you reject it.

But I understand where your coming from. You reject the idea That God will restor Israel. so you can not accept that interpretation.. And thats fine..

Just don't expect people to come to your view. when they study and read the passage and can not see what you claim

Scripture is clear that the Israel that God will save, and that by grace, is His faithful obedient remnant. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27; Romans 11:5.

Salvation is by grace, not race.

God is not a racist, nor can He be contorted into one.

 

[covenantee]

To bring in everlasting righteousness, - Look at the world. do you think this is accomplished?? if this is a peacful righteous world. I want nothing to do with it

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


Lotsa righteousness there and here.

Don't forget to tell God that it doesn't exist.

If you'd stop looking at the world, and start looking at Christ, you'd find things looking a lot different.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You can protest the rules of grammar all you want.

But you cannot change them.

I am not the one trying to change them, you are

SI and I have explained repeatedly how the ministries of Messiah and His disciples during the 70th week were to Israel, but you reject it.

Scripture is clear that the Israel that God will save, and that by grace, is His faithful obedient remnant. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27; Romans 11:5.

Salvation is by grace, not race.

God is not a racist, nor can He be contorted into one.

See. You just proved my point

Its not about the remnant, there was a remnant in Daniels day when he prayed the prayer he prayed in Dan 9.

Its about the whole nation.

Keep talking, I love it when you all talk. It further proves to myself how I could never believe as you do and strengthens my own faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 5:17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)


Lotsa righteousness there and here.

Don't forget to tell God that it doesn't exist.

If you'd stop looking at the world, and start looking at Christ, you'd find things looking a lot different.

lol..

I look outside, I watch the news.

I do nt see righteousness God said will come in the end.

But hey, if you think this is it.. If this is all God can accomplish on this world. well so be it

I have faith God can and will accomplish when he said he would.

 

[covenantee]

I look outside, I watch the news.

That's why you don't see Christ.

I do nt see righteousness God said will come in the end.

It's been here for 2,000 years, as Scripture declares.

But hey, if you think this is it.. If this is all God can accomplish on this world. well so be it

God's obviously a disappointment for you. He's not for me and multitudes of others who trust Him.

I have faith God can and will accomplish when he said he would.

I know that God has accomplished what He said He would.

 

[Truth7t7]

SI and I have explained repeatedly how the ministries of Messiah and His disciples during the 70th week were to Israel, but you reject it.

It states absolutely nothing about what you claim above, same applies to Matthew 24:30 being 70AD judgement on Israel, all man made fairy found in reformed preterist eschatology

 

[covenantee]

It states absolutely nothing about what you claim above, same applies to Matthew 24:30 being 70AD judgement on Israel, all man made fairy found in reformed preterist eschatology

Matthew 15
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Go back to bed.

 

[Truth7t7]

Matthew 15
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Go back to bed.

Has absolutely nothing to do with Daniel's literal future 70 weeks