Revelation 15:2 (KJV) And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Who Are These That Win and When Does It Happen
- Thread starter Cyd
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Galgal
Member
The beast from the sea is the animal instinct of people to strive for wealth, for the comfort of life in civilization. This desire to make their lives independent of God, made people build empires, from the Sumerians to the United States.
"The image of the beast" is the president of the United States, carnal Christians are very concerned about who will take the post of the antichrist for the next term. Any president of the United States is the antichrist, because, firstly, any antichrist must come from among Christians. Secondly, as a president, he is busy building the kingdom of this world, instead of building the Kingdom of God within ourselves. As one ancient saint said: "If you made a vow to God to lay up treasures in heaven and not on earth, why do you feed the dog that guards your earthly wealth?" The president is a dog that carnal Christians elect to protect their mammon (property).
"The mark of the beast" is the habit of lying for one's own benefit (the mark on the head), and the habit of stealing - the illegal usury of banks, and "surplus value".
"The number of the beast's name" is ID, passport, tax number, cadastral number, any identification in the state, in the "beast" system. There is identification in God - the saints remember those who helped them in life. And there is identification in the beast - ID. The number of saints is 144,000. The number of the beast is 666. Both are conditional values.
The saints who defeat the beast now will renounce their earthly citizenships.
"The image of the beast" is the president of the United States, carnal Christians are very concerned about who will take the post of the antichrist for the next term. Any president of the United States is the antichrist, because, firstly, any antichrist must come from among Christians. Secondly, as a president, he is busy building the kingdom of this world, instead of building the Kingdom of God within ourselves. As one ancient saint said: "If you made a vow to God to lay up treasures in heaven and not on earth, why do you feed the dog that guards your earthly wealth?" The president is a dog that carnal Christians elect to protect their mammon (property).
"The mark of the beast" is the habit of lying for one's own benefit (the mark on the head), and the habit of stealing - the illegal usury of banks, and "surplus value".
"The number of the beast's name" is ID, passport, tax number, cadastral number, any identification in the state, in the "beast" system. There is identification in God - the saints remember those who helped them in life. And there is identification in the beast - ID. The number of saints is 144,000. The number of the beast is 666. Both are conditional values.
The saints who defeat the beast now will renounce their earthly citizenships.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
It is Israel.
Genesis 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
The glass is from the day of the Lord .
Like the glass from the Hiroshima bomb but I'm sure much more of it.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Revelation 2:26
To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end, To them I will give authority over all the nations.
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Exodus 19:6
you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors
To all who are victorious, who obey me to the very end, To them I will give authority over all the nations.
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Exodus 19:6
you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
Isaiah 14:2
Nations will take them and bring them to their own place. And Israel will take possession of the nations and make them male and female servants in the LORD’s land. They will make captives of their captors and rule over their oppressors
tailgator
Well-Known Member
ewq1938
Well-Known Member
- Jul 11, 2015
- 7,294
- 1,452
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
I think it is more than just the 144000, in the usa we have had the social security number for ages, and drivers license
Galgal
Member
144,000 is the number of assemblies throughout the history of the Church. Therefore, the "number of saints" is conditional. There are a great many people in these assemblies.
No saint could exist on his own. There were always people who helped the saint, listened to his word. The division into saints and ordinary believers is conditional. For example, the first church in Jerusalem was one firstborn of 144,000. How many saints were there in this "firstborn" who achieved perfection? How many ordinary people were there who could not achieve perfection during their lifetime? All the same, they make up one unit in Christ. There are 144,000 such units in total.
Whoever is counted by God as part of one of the 144,000 units is saved in God. And whoever has an ID in his state is recorded in the "beast", the time of whose existence is limited.
Dear Cyd,
The book of Revelation is a spiritual prophecy of the New Covenant. The events depicted in the vision John received are spiritual events which happen within a person. Those spiritual events will be kept by the Elect as they travel to their moment of conversion.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Since the prophecy teaches the pathway to salvation the Elect will travel to their moment of conversion, the time was already "at hand" for the prophecy's fulfillment. The spiritual events are not far off one-time events that only happen near the literal end of this age. They are reoccurring spiritual events that were already happens during John's day.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
Because the "time was at hand", John was told not to seal the prophecy:
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.
Now let's look at Rev 15:2 and who the people are who stand on the sea of glass:
Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
The "sea of glass mingled with fire" represents the place where the converted Elect dwell. The glass represents that the Elect are at peace and the fire represents that they have been judged. Fire is the spirit word for judgment. It was their judgment that removed the "chaff" (all the spiritual things that made them carnally minded and sinful) from within them. After the chaff was removed, the spiritual battles that used to take place within them ended. They now walk by faith and by the Spirit. They are at peace.
The verse also says that they had gotten "victory over the beast". Victory comes to an Elect person when they are converted.
So who is the beast that the Elect get victory over? The beast is a reference to the Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns of Revelation chapter 13.
This beast is a spiritual representation of the "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) version of mankind (a spiritually worsened child of the Devil). In other words, the beast is a spiritual representation of an apostate believer; a "man of sin". It is this apostate believer who is the physical image of the spiritual beast which speaks:
Rev 13:15 And he (the second beast) had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
The second beast who "gives life unto the beast" represents the spirit of anti-Christ.
Note: The horns of the beast represent the ruling beliefs of a person (a child of the Devil/mankind). The crowns on the horns represent that Satan rules over those beliefs via the spirit of anti-Christ. These crowns make the beast a worsened child of the Devil; a man of sin/apostate believer. Revelation chapter 17 shows the spiritual process that causes the Seven Headed Beast with ten horns w/no crowns (mankind/children of the devil) to become the same beast with the crowns added (an apostate believer with the spirit of anti-Christ; the second beast).
Christ describes this spiritual process below in Mat 12:43-45.
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.
Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.
This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.
Because the Elect will "keep" the sayings of the prophecy (includes Rev ch. 13 & 17), all the Elect since the death of Paul will become apostate after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit. The small measure of the Spirit is what causes a person to make a confession of faith and enter the church. They are the babes in Christ who can only draw milk as presented in the verse below:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes who draw milk) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ).
Below are some additional verses to consider:
1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (Day of conversion/salvation) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder (voice of God) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (have become apostate), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king (Satan).
Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (the Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in an apostate condition).
Conversion requires an Elect person to receive both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, followed by judgment (Day of the Lord). It is by the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit that the Elect person is "born again" as a child of God. It is by Christ's judgment that destroys the "chaff" from within them which caused them to become a "man of sin". The chaff is the spirit of anti-Christ and the person's "marred" spirit (represented by the Great Harlot/Mystery Babylon the Great city/earthly Jerusalem) which caused them to become carnally minded and sinful.
It is by Christ's spiritual work of conversion that gives an Elect person their victory over the beast.
Joe
Last edited:
This is interesting, I have never heard it all being a spiritual thing. I think it also represents a physical happening also not just spiritual. Thanks for the spiritual look though.
Dear Cyd,
The teachings of Christ under the New Covenant are 100% spiritual. They do not have physical fulfillments, too.
Consider what Christ said below to Peter:
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword?
If we understand this verse in a carnal way (outwardly and physically) rather than in a spiritual way (inwardly), that statement can easily be proven to be FALSE. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.
Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?
The spiritual language of the Word of God utilizes the Hebrew and Greek languages. However, Christ assigns meanings to the Hebrew and Greek words which are different from how they are commonly defined:
1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word SWORD to teach us a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...
From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spirit word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.
Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (happens when a person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit and begins following Christ), must perish by the Sword (death of the child of the devil at conversion). This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), followed by the Baptism of Fire (judgment):
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.
After a person receives both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, they will be "born again" as a child of God. This new birth will then be immediately followed by judgment (baptism of Fire). This judgment will remove and destroy all the spiritual things (man's marred spirit/Great Harlot & the spirit of anti-Christ) within the person which has made them carnally minded and sinful. After they are removed and destroyed, the child of the devil will be dead. This death happens by the Sword of Christ.
After the person has been converted, they will finally be at peace because the spiritual war within them has ended. The spiritual war started earlier within the person after Christ gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The spiritual war within them was between the Holy Spirit and the marred & carnal spirit (called the Great Harlot) which made the child of the devil "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45) when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt the unconverted babe.
The point of conversion is when the Elect have "victory over the beast".
So when you see verses like the one below, understand that being "slain" with the Sword only happens to a person AFTER they have been born again as a child of God. The one who is "slain" is the child of the devil. This all occurs during the conversion process.
Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God/Christ/Truth) will the LORD plead with all flesh (all mankind/children of the devil): and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
After the last person of mankind has been slain, this verse will be testified to be true:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joe
Last edited:
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
You are right, it will be much more than just 144,000. Revelation 7 is often misinterpreted.
The 144,000 mentioned represent only the 'seed' of Israel that will not be deceived, and are sealed with God's seal for the tribulation. They represent Christians among the seed of Israel. And one the mistakes many make about that 144,000 is not realizing that only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi represent Jews, while all the other tribes mentioned represent lost ten tribes that were scattered first. (This is first revealed starting in 1 Kings 11 when God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms.)
Then at Revelation 7:9, the "great multitude" John saw is pointing to believing Gentiles that also will be 'sealed' with God's seal for the tribulation.
The whole Rev.7 chapter is actually about the 'sealing' of Christ's elect in prep for the "great tribulation". That sealing is by The Holy Spirit (Eph.1:13 and 4:30).
The "great multitude" representing sealed Gentiles is shown John in a post-tribulation view, with Christ at His throne. That is not... about a pre-trib rapture like some wrongly preach. It is actually showing John the future "thousand years" Millennial time of Christ upon David's earthly throne with His elect priests and kings.
The way you speak, the good you do and the distinction you keep - are all tested by God (that is the point of the tribulation)
Similar threads
