Are the trumpets and vials running in parallel like some insist?

[TribulationSigns]

You have already been on my ignore list for quiet a while now.

Yet you could not resist from reading my posts and replied like you did lately. LOL.

 

[WPM]

Yet you could not resist from reading my posts and replied like you did lately. LOL.

That was my initial thought. Lol.

He is going to end up talking to himself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There you go then. Since that obviously is not an example of good logic, how is it any different if one is insisting that the trumpets and vials parallel?

It's very different from that as I don't have any of the seals, trumpets or vials going out of order like he does. there are clearly parallels in the book of Revelation and it is clearly not all in chronological order. To Deny that requires paying no attention to the details i nthe book.

Your avoidance of answering my question about whether you believe the seventh trumpet is the same as the last trumpet says it all. You're all talk. When your view gets challenged, you disappear. Do you have no answer to that simple question?

Seal 6 is when God's wrath begins, is it not? And that a number of us, including you, agree the 6th seal involves the 7th trumpet, right? Except some of you have the 1st trumpet already involving God's wrath the fact you insist the 1st vial is poured out during trumpet 1.

You keep repeating yourself over and over and over again, but won't ever answer simple questions that I ask you for clarification of what you believe. So, you apparently believe that Jesus returns at the 6th seal or just after that at the 7th seal and it is the same time as the 7th trumpet. Is that correct? So, how can a bunch of things occur after that since that is when He actually returns? What is your understanding of what will happen on the day He returns? Please explain that to me so I can know exactly what you expect to happen.

Since you believe that all of the vials follow the 7th trumpet, then how long do you think it takes for what is described as happening in relation to them? Stop being so wordy and get to the point for once. Tell me exactly what you think will happen on the day Jesus returns and how long you think it will take for the events related to the seven vials to occur.

Revelation 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.
7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

According to some of you, vial 1 is meaning during trumpet 1.

Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


According to some of you this is involving the 7th trumpet.

Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7 ¶The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

What and who are you talking about? I do not believe that the first trumpet involves the seventh trumpet. Where are you getting that from?

According to some of you verse 7 isn't meaning after when Revelation 6:17 is meaning. It is meaning before when Revelation 6:17 is meaning. Well at least you are being logical about that.

So, suddenly, we're being logical when we don't believe the first trumpet follows the sixth (and seventh) seal chronologically, but if we also believe the fist vial doesn't follow the seventh trumpet then we're not being logical anymore? Where is the logic in that? It's very ironic that you talk so much about logic when you're so illogical so often.

Why are you then being illogical about Revelation 16:2 by insisting God's wrath begins during trumpet 1 even though the 6th seal is already plainly telling us by also comparing to the 7th trumpet in Revelation 11, that God's wrath doesn't even begin until the 7th trumpet? Can't some of you see that you are contradicting things here rather than having all these things agreeing with each other?

I have no idea of what you're saying here. Can you please try to communicate more clearly? There is no contradiction that I can see in how we interpret Revelation and you certainly are doing nothing to make me think otherwise.

What we believe is that the wrath of the Lamb (see Rev 6:12-17) occurs when Christ returns. We don't see the vials as all being about the wrath of Christ when He returns as you do. It would be helpful if you would explain how long you think that wrath will occur. Paul described it as "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" (1 Thess 5:2-3). Does that match your understanding of the vials? Do you not take other scripture into consideration when interpreting Revelation?

Since the first trumpet can't be following the 6th seal events if those are involving the 7th trumpet, what event/s does the first trumpet follow? Are there any clues in that that inform us the 7 last vials of wrath begin with the first trumpet?

It's the first vial only that we relate to the first trumpet, not all 7 vials. And then the second vial to the second trumpet and so on.

In my mind, though it is not reasonable that Revelation 8:7 follows after when Revelation 6:17 is meaning, assuming it is meaning the 7th trumpet, the same can't be said of Revelation 16:2 and Revelation 6:17 too, that it is not reasonable that it follows Revelation 6:17. Of course it is reasonable. And the way it is reasonable is simple. Revelation 16:2 is not meaning when Revelation 8:7 is meaning. Revelation 16:2 is meaning when Revelation 6:17 is meaning. Simple.

There's nothing simple about the way you communicate. If this really all simple as you claim, then why can't you explain it simply? Please tell me exactly what you believe the seven vials entail and how long they willl last. When do you see them starting? On the day Christ returns? Do you take the descriptions of them all literally? If this is all so simple, then you should be able to give a simple answers to my questions.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am putting you on my ignore list also.

Oh no. How can I recover from this? LOL.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Spiritual Jew on Christianforums? Well nice to meet with you again here.

Yes, that's me. You know we've talked on this forum here several times already, right? But, sure, nice to meet you again here.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have already been on my ignore list for quiet a while now.

I'm sure he's devastated to hear about that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am putting you on my ignore list. So I will not be seeing any more of your posts.

Instead of apologizing to him and to me for your nonsense like an adult, you run away with your tail between your legs like a coward. You're totally in the wrong here, but you try to blame us for it. Unbelievable. I hope you know that no one here takes you seriously.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yet you could not resist from reading my posts and replied like you did lately. LOL.

LOL. Kind of pointless for him to put you on his ignore list when he still reads your posts, anyway, right? LOL

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That was my initial thought. Lol.

He is going to end up talking to himself.

LOL. True. He's definitely running out of people to talk to who aren't on his ignore list. I wonder if he even wonders if maybe he is the problem instead of all the people on his ignore list? Probably not.

 

[WPM]

LOL. True. He's definitely running out of people to talk to who aren't on his ignore list. I wonder if he even wonders if maybe he is the problem instead of all the people on his ignore list? Probably not.

He was getting very uncomfortable because we moved him away from his erroneous charts. He was having to actually address Scripture.

The 2 questions he will not answer are:

• So, in your estimation, is Jesus coming to rapture His Church a "coming" (or parousia) of Christ?
• So, what name do you have for your 3rd coming before your future millennium? What biblical terms uniquely describe that?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Yes, that's me. You know we've talked on this forum here several times already, right? But, sure, nice to meet you again here.

Yes. I was being silly.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He was getting very uncomfortable because we moved him away from his erroneous chaters. He was having to actually address Scripture.

The 2 questions he will not answer are:

• So, in your estimation, is Jesus coming to rapture His Church a "coming" (or parousia) of Christ?
• So, what name do you have for your 3rd coming before your future millennium? What biblical terms uniquely describe that?

Right. So, he's trying to find any excuse he can to avoid answering those questions, including trying to make us out to be the bad guys despite him falsely accusing us of being the same person just because he can't imagine two people agreeing on things since no one agrees with him about anything. He won't apologize for even suggesting such nonsense.

 

[WPM]

Right. So, he's trying to find any excuse he can to avoid answering those questions, including trying to make us out to be the bad guys despite him falsely accusing us of being the same person just because he can't imagine two people agreeing on things since no one agrees with him about anything. He won't apologize for even suggesting such nonsense.

Exactly! What do they have? I started a thread with all their supposed proof-texts and I could not get one Pretribber to address it without the usual evasive insults and name-calling; They are totally frustrated.

Another one bites the dust!!!

 

[Timtofly]

The vials and trumpets parallel each other.

In an alternate universe, of human imagination.

Do you think the earthquake in Revelation 11:13 that some claim is the 6th Trumpet, the same as the earthquake in Revelation 16:18-19, because the same word is used, since using the same words is the basis of your argument? Are there 2 earthquakes that destroy this city? Or is the 6th Trumpet parallel to the 7th vial and the 7th Trumpet, so they happen at the same time?

The 5th Trumpet is the release from chains under darkness, those angels from the original rebellion. Jude 1:6

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

How is that parallel with the 5th vial? If the angels are loosed in the 5th Trumpet, would that not be in the 7th Trumpet they are cast out of heaven one last time? Between causing suffering on earth at the 5th Trumpet, and the 7th Trumpet they have made it a war against heaven as well. How do these rebel angels fit into the vials?

Are they cast out of heaven at the 7th vial? The vials are poured out on mystery Babylon. At what point in Revelation is mystery Babylon even established? Are you saying the mark has always been around, or only during a specific time frame? You do not even have a specific time frame for the events you claim are in parallel. You think that all the parallels cover the last 2 millennia. You have Satan both bound, and passing out the mark on earth at the same time. At what point have these angels been loosed from the pit? Did a third of the trees burn up in the first 300 years after the Cross? Was mystery Babylon happening even prior to the Reformation?

How can you say these events all started 1994 years ago, and yet all happen at the same time, even though none of them have happened yet?

Your posts do not explain anything. They just raise more questions, than give answers. Anyone can match up words. That is all you did, as you did not match up the events associated with those words.

Mystery Babylon does not even exist until after the 7th Trumpet has sounded.

The 7th Trumpet declares the 7th world kingdom. Mystery Babylon is an 8th and temporary world kingdom, and that can only happen after a 7th Kingdom. Revelation 17:11

"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

"And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Mystery Babylon is only that city under the 8th king, who is Satan. That city has not always been mystery Babylon. That is a title that can only work at a certain point in history. How can you explain this:

"And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire."

Even these 10 kings "destroy" this city, and attempt to purge this city of what they think needs to be removed. Is this prior to or after the earthquake or both earthquakes? Is this prior to the 6th Seal, where everything is also destroyed? How has the 8th kingdom been in place at the same time as the 4th kingdom?

The Trumpets involve the earth as a whole, even if the judgment is directed at the same element as the vial, such as the rivers and the sea. The vials are directed at the 8th kingdom which is the entire earth, but so gutted, that nothing has been left recognizable. The vials are the end of the end. The Trumpets are the beginning of the end. Neither judgments have even happened yet.

 

[Timtofly]

Lol. Just because two people do the same thing that means they're the same person? That is ridiculous. That exemplifies what we are dealing with here. You're totally blind to the folly of your charts and the impotence of your argument.

You are obviously not listening to what other people have told you about your charts.

Wow, so two people are not the same person...

...but two seperate times of judgment coming from God have to be the same thing, just because you say so?

 

[Davy]

Some of this you brought up is Shepherd's Chapel teachings. Therefore, irrelevant, since some of us reject Shepherd's Chapel teachings. I recognize Shepherd's Chapel teachings when I see them. I have been aware of Shepherd's Chapel since the mid 90s. IOW, to use Shepherd's Chapel teachings as an argument is not a valid argument. That aside, though.

What is silly is your false accusation with Shepherd's Chapel.

I have already backed up what I showed with Bible Scripture, even more than once on this Forum.

But you, all you are doing is lashing out with relying on your own small limited bias about Shepherd's Chapel? Look at your Bible, not Shepherd's Chapel, nor any man, you silly mocker!

 

[Davy]

For example, vial 1. It is plain silly it is poured out during trumpet 1 if the time of trumpet 1 is not even involving the reign of the beast yet. IOW, in order for during trumpet 1 for vial 1 to be poured out, this would have to mean the 42 month reign of the beast precedes trumpet 1.

One may 'assume' that only.
There is NO proof of what you say with that 1st trumpet. What you are trying to do is try and prove that if one seal-trumpet-vial combination can't be shown happening at the same period in parallel, then the whole parallel idea is false.

Obviously then, you show that you haven't understood the Seals of Rev.6, because what is the 1st Seal about there? It's about the Antichrist on the white horse trying to imitate Jesus' coming on a white horse of Rev.19. The false-Messiah/Antichrist doesn't even appear until a later Seal, so why did Jesus give that one first?

The answer of course is because that was Jesus' FIRST WARNING SIGN about the end that He gave in His Olivet discourse, to not allow any man to deceive us. And that is especially... what the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist is coming at the end to do, to deceive the whole world. But notice that later in Christ's Olivet discourse, He specifically warns of a pseudo-Christ that others will claim is Jesus having come (Matthew 24:23-26 with "false Christs" which Dr. James Strong defined to actually mean "a spurious Messiah" - NT:5580).

It would have to look like this.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Followed by trumpet 1 and vial 1.

That speculation is just all over the place, which is NOT what I have shown from Bible Scripture. You're pretty much just MAKING THAT FALSENESS UP.

The Rev.13:1-8 Scripture simply defines the 1st beast, and who is over it, and how long the "dragon" will have power over the nations, and that he will overcome the saints also, and shows end of all military wars, and even hints in verse 8 that the only ones that will not be deceived are those who's names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

In other words, those Rev.13 Scriptures do NOT tell us which Trumpet-Seal-Vial that is. So you cannot just ADD to that Bible Scripture like you are trying to claim, and is something I NEVER DID.

Rather than this. Trumpet 1 followed by Revelation 13:1-5 followed by vial 1.

Though, it is logical that trumpet 1 precedes the beginning of the 42 month reign of the beast, it is not also logical that so does vial 1. From what I can tell, the beast begins it's 42 month reign during the 6th trumpet, not before the first trumpet.

You can't prove or disprove that, so you are just speculating on Scripture like playing roulette, no basis in the actual Scripture itself.

You must... go to the Revelation Scriptures that mention the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials.

Revelation 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

It makes zero sense to place this during trumpet 1 if it is not even until trumpet 6 that the beast begins reigning 42 months to begin with. Once again, it is silly to pour out vial 1 on these before they are even doing these things first. Until the beast starts it's 42 month reign during the 6th trumpet, in the meantime no one has the mark of the beast nor are worshiping his image yet. That can't happen until the beast rises out of the pit first, and another rises out of the earth. None of those things are true before the 1st trumpet sounds.

Like I said before, Jesus in His Olivet discourse covered the SIGNS of His Book of Revelation, and that's the initial order of everything, excepting the rider on the white horse, which IF YOU LOOK at Rev.6:1-2, there is NO mention that it is the 1st Seal. It is only assumed... to be the 1st Seal.

Why would Jesus do that in Rev.6? I already told you, it's because the coming false-Messiah/Antichrist is His main warning about the end of this world, and... in the Matthew 24:23-26 verses He is more specific about the rider on the white horse of Rev.6.

Matt 24:4-5
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in My name, saying, "I am Christ"; and shall deceive many.
KJV

Jesus begins His Olivet discourse SIGNS with that warning against deception by a false-Christ. In the above, it's a parallel to the "many antichrists" of 1 John 2:18. But in the later Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture it is a parallel to a specific 'pseudo-Christ' ("a spurious Messiah" per Strong's), which is the singular "antichrist" of 1 John 2:18.

Why would Jesus give those SIGNS like that? Simple, it's because He was warning us ESPECIALLY about the false-Christ concept, not just with the "many antichrists" that would come only claiming... to be Christ with no power of miracles, but mainly about the coming pseudo-Christ/antichrist at the end of this world that will have power to do great signs, wonders, and miracles to deceive the whole world! (Matt.24:23-26; Rev.13:11-16).

Why are some Premils reasoning some of these things like Amils do?

Why do you push false ideas that have no relation to the Bible Scripture? I am Premill, but I do not accept the false pre-trib rapture theory of men, so have you bothered to figure that out yet? You cannot TRY and associate Amill with Premill, that is ludicrous. The false theory of Amillennialism began in the 2nd century A.D., and most likely came from the Christian Gnostics. All the 1st century Church fathers were Premill.

Apparently, some Premils would prefer to continue reasoning things like Amils rather than actually agreeing with the texts involved, that it is not until trumpet 6 that the beast begins it's 42 month reign.

Again, that's an irrelevant and ludicrous biased statement that does not prove a thing.

I agree with the ACTUAL Bible text, but I haven't seen you agreeing with them that much here. Instead, you act like you are trying disprove something you clearly don't even understand that's written in God's Word.

And besides, if seal 6 is meaning the 7th trumpet, no way then can trumpet 1 be meaning after seal 6. It has to be meaning before seal 6. That obviously places what trumpet 1 is involving before that of what seal 6 is involving. But it doesn't also place vial 1 before that of what seal 6 is involving.

The events of the 6th SEAL are in 2 parts. The idea of the stars falling from heaven and "untimely figs" idea, can only point to the time of "great tribulation" at the end when the "dragon" comes with his angels, as per the written Scripture (where's that written? Easy, in Rev.12:7 forward, and Daniel 12:1 when Archangel Michael makes a stand in Heaven).

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Meaning trumpet 1 and vial 1 are the same event. Trumpet 2 and vial 2 are the same event. So on and so on.

Let's start with these 2 verses.

Revelation 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.


If these are the same event, when does the 2nd angel quit blowing his trumpet and then start pouring out his vial?

I will explain why some people see the Judgments overlapping, its mainly because they do not understand the Seals DO NOTHING except prophesy what's coming soon, when the DOTL finally hits.


The Seals are Jesus opening up the Scrolls that contain the Trumpet Judgments, there are only 7 Judgments, not 21. The number 7 = Divine Completion. So Jesus starts opening the seals in the midst of the pre trib. raptured saints in heaven JUST BEFORE the DOTL falls upon mankind.

Seals 1-5 is Jesus opening seals, then prophesying about a soon to come man who will 1.) Conquer and rule for 42 (White Horse) months 2.) Whose rule will bring 42 months(Red Horse) of Wars 3.) Jesus foretells about a man who will bring 42 months (Black Horse) of Famine. 4.) He foretells about this man's coming 42 months (Pale Green Horse) of Death, Destruction and the Grave/Hades he brings. 5.) Then finally Jesus foretells about this soon to come mans 42 months of murdering the saints.

In Seal #6 God then turns from this man's actions to God's soon to come ACTIONS or the Wrath of God or the Day of the Lord. Jesus opens this seal and foretells of the Rev. 8 Asteroids destruction unto this evil world. It ends with these words, the Sun & Moon will go Dark (SEE Trump #4)

Rev. 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake(Jesus is speaking about the Asteroid IMPACT here); and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (Here, Jesus tells of Trump #4 being fulfilled, and all the FIRES via the 1/3 trees burning in Trump #1 the IMPACT in Trump #2 and the Sun and Moon going Dark via all the smoke in Trump #4)

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs,(I think this is both an Asteroid Impact, but also Satan being cast to earth at the 1260 events of the DOTL) when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

DOTL hits here.................

Now God's Wrath starts via Rev. 8 that is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, that's why there is 30 minutes of silence. The Angels take no joy in having to slay billions of humans, it repented God when He had to flood the whole earth. Thus the silence shows a reverent duty, not a joyous action. By the way, now we can see the 7 Thunders were the 7 Trumps, and why John eating the little book was sweet in the mouth and bitter in the belly. He knew judgment com in meant eternal life with God, but he also knew it mean billions of humans would die.

The first Four Trumps are ONE ASTEROID IMPACT. The Tress bur before the Impact in 1/3 of the world, not 1/3 of the trees, that is a DESTNATION (Think New World) and the Pacific Ocea covers exactly 1/3 of the worlds surface also. The Old World will be left intact for Jesus' 1000 year reign, they will be killed via plagues instead (that is Trump #1. Then in Trump #2 we get the IMPACT. Then in Trump #3 we get a FALLOUT of sorts, thus the fresh waters in the New World will be poisoned. Finally in Trump #4 we see the SUN & MOON going dark by 1/3 and the moon turns blood red, but why? The Fires on earth give it a red hue of course !! Now, Rev. 8:13 tells us the Last Three Trumps yet to Sound are the Three Woes !!

Woes 1 & 2 can be seen in Rev. 9. Woe #3 is seen in Rev. 16, the 7 Vials emit from the blowing/sounding of the 7th Trump thus the 7 Vials in full are the 3rd Woe. Thus in these 7 Vials the Wrath of God is [FINALLY] FILLED UP. Thus all 7 Trumps = the Full Wrath of God.

The Trumps do not Overlap the Vials because the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump. BUT....if one pays attention, the Seals are FORETELLING the coming 7 Trumpet Judgments.

 

[Davy]

I will explain why some people see the Judgments overlapping, its mainly because they do not understand the Seals DO NOTHING except prophesy what's coming soon, when the DOTL finally hits.

That idea is clearly false, and easy to disprove. In Revelation 6, Lord Jesus was giving the SAME SIGNS of the 'end' that He gave first in His Olivet discourse.

Brethren in Christ: know this about those stuck on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory -- their preachers wrongly teach them that Christ's Olivet discourse are mostly for the Jews, since Jesus was speaking to His Jewish disciples upon the Mount of Olives. Their preachers do NOT... want their pre-triber deceived brethren to study those SIGNS of the end that Jesus gave there (Matt.24; Mark 13). Otherwise, they might begin grasping that Rev.6 is Jesus outlining those same SIGNS of the end!

And what's the LAST SIGN Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse?? The SIGN of His 2nd coming to gather His saints AFTER... the "great tribulation"! Well, what do ya know, Jesus covered that SIGN of His coming in the 6th Seal verses of Rev.6 too!

What the deceived on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory do to Christ's Revelation, is try and make it look like the Church is gone, raptured to Heaven by the fourth Revelation chapter, thus ADDING to the Revelation Scripture!

Likewise, those on men's Preterist and Historicist doctrines are messed up too, as they treat most of the Book of Revelation as already having been fulfilled in the past!

 

[Douggg]

And what's the LAST SIGN Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse?? The SIGN of His 2nd coming to gather His saints AFTER... the "great tribulation"!

Davy, what bible verse are you referring to ?