Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

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face2face

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The issue with this thread is seen in the reluctance of Christians to understand in what way was Christ the firstborn from the dead Col 1:18

What was born?

Christians would say "nothing was born" and in doing so, they place themselves outside of Christ's death and resurrection.

Dangerous teaching that one!

F2F
 

Taken

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Ronald

Lets assume your understanding of these matters for a moment.

How can the "spirit" go back to God who gave it, (Ecc. 12:7) and yet be imprisoned in hades?

F2F

Body is one thing.
Soul is another thing.
Spirit is another thing.

Jesus prepared body died….buried.
Jesus’ Living soul departed his dead body…. AND preached to living souls in hell.
 

Taken

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Wow if you properly understood hell to mean grave and soul to mean life then you would be onto something but I'm thinking you have a lot of mythology going on in that response lol

The “GrAVe” is not properly understood to mean HELL.

Grave, is a place to bury a stinking rotting corpse’….

Hell, is a place deep within the earth for departed living souls to continue living separated from God.
 

face2face

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Body is one thing.
Soul is another thing.
Spirit is another thing.

Jesus prepared body died….buried.
Jesus’ Living soul departed his dead body…. AND preached to living souls in hell.
Body is the Physical.
Soul is whole Life.
Spirit is Mind.

by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit 1 Pe 3:18.

How?
 

face2face

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Hell, is a place deep within the earth for departed living souls to continue living separated from God.
Within the Earth you say?

Nothing is seperated from God!

Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths (of the earth), you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. Psalms 139:7-12
 

Taken

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Body is the Physical.
Soul is whole Life.
Spirit is Mind.

by being put to death in the flesh but by being made alive in the spirit 1 Pe 3:18.

How?

Receipt of the SEED of God.
For a HUMAN, that ONLY applies once Gods Books receives testimony a HUMAN BODY Has DIED … IN BELIEF.

Humans ARE a Body, HAVE a soul, HAVE a spirit. (All names and pronouns of the Body, apply also to the mans soul and spirit.)

The Lord God IS a Spirit, HAS a soul, HAS a body.
 

Taken

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Within the Earth you say?

Nothing is seperated from God!

Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths (of the earth), you are there. If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. Psalms 139:7-12

God DIVIDES and God SEPARATES…
God IS Invisible…
God KNOWS, SEES, ALL things….
(Even though man can NOT)….

IN CONTEXT, your quoting of Psalms was KNOWLEDGE during THAT era…

IN that ERA, “ALL departed living souls went to Hell”…..SAVED and UNSAVED….they could NOT intermingle…
Saved souls were in Comfort with the Spirit of God…
Unsaved sous were in Agony with-OUT the Spirit of God.

What were the Saved souls WAITING FOR?

He who IS FIRST, BEORE all things…JESUS…
(Col 1:17)

Once Jesus’ body was crucified….His Soul went to Hell to Preach….to WHO? Those saved souls being held captive…

Once Jesus’ soul Left Hell…and returned to Heaven ….SO ALSO COULD all the Living saved souls Leave Hell and rise up to Heaven, where they WAIT for Judgement day.
And thereafter All saved departed living souls go directly to heaven to WAIT for Judgement day.
 

Taken

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How? Jesus did not have this seed already?

How was he made alive?

Christ IS the SEED of God…
It is soul saved humans that receive the Seed of God.

Jesus was not MADE alive…Jesus the same, yesterday, today and forever.

AND BTW….your giggle retort reveals you are not familiar with …
* underground oceans…scripturally called fountains of the deep, which gushed forth upon the earth, during the day of the FLOOD and RAIN….then asswaged back into the earth allowing earth to again be revealed…
* and the magma in the earth that even shoot up fire … commonly called a volcano eruption….

You should study before taking a stance in material you are unfamiliar with

Glory to God,
Taken
 

face2face

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Christ IS the SEED of God…
It is soul saved humans that receive the Seed of God.

Jesus was not MADE alive…Jesus the same, yesterday, today and forever.

AND BTW….your giggle retort reveals you are not familiar with …
* underground oceans…scripturally called fountains of the deep, which gushed forth upon the earth, during the day of the FLOOD and RAIN….then asswaged back into the earth allowing earth to again be revealed…
* and the magma in the earth that even shoot up fire … commonly called a volcano eruption….

You should study before taking a stance in material you are unfamiliar with

Glory to God,
Taken
You're not registering your problem.

God IS Spirit, so how can the Spirit make Jesus ALIVE

What died?
 

face2face

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@Taken I think the penny will drop eventually.

It's one of those situation's where you can't have it both ways. Some of the more learned ones in this forum have explored the reality of this.

F2F
 

Aunty Jane

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From this you assume pre-existence.

You may need to further consider John's teachings in John 3:13

"even the Son of man which is in heaven". Did the Son of man literally come down from heaven?

If you so believe, then Flesh can glory in His Presence!

This begs the question Brakelight...in what way can it be said the Master came from Heaven? What about John 6:33, 38 & 51?

The other nuance to Johns teaching which you need to explore is the Old Testament language of theophany (God appearing). A manifestation of divine power is referred to as "God coming down". The completion of the theophany is God "going up" or ascending. (Genesis 11:5; 18:21; Exod. 3:7, 8; 19:11, 18, 20; 34:5; Psa. 18:9, 10; Isa. 64:1.)
And yet the word “theophany” does not appear in any biblical manuscripts.

If God appeared to man, it would be a fatal exercise.....(Exodus 33:17-20)
The apostle John said.....”No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.” (John 1:18)
How many people saw Jesus?
The one who was “with God”, “at the Father’s side”, for eons before creation, explained to others who he was, and always will be.....the “one God” of Israel. (Deut 6:4; John 17:3)

God never “came down” as he is the Almighty and does not need to reduce himself in any way to accomplish his will and purpose. He does that by empowering his servants to do what is necessary to make adjustments in his responses to their decisions.

The flood of Noah’s day is a prime example of that. God did not save Noah out of that world....he instructed Noah about how to save himself and his family. It would require monumental effort.
If God’s instructions are followed, good is accomplished, but if it is ignored or rejected, trouble is not far away.

God’s purpose will stand, no matter what choices his free willed children might make to counter it. Jesus is called “God’s holy servant”....something not mentioned in Christendom as it would expose a great deal of false teaching. (Acts 4:27, 30) Can God be his own “servant”?
Can God be his own “apostle and High Priest”? (Heb 3:1)
Also, Jesus did not literally come down from Heaven.
He said he did...John 6:38....whom should we believe?
He was God’s “master workman” in creation. (Prov 8:30-31)
His origin was heavenly, (as the context states - John 3:31), in-so-far as he was conceived by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven and his teaching was not his own but his Father's. (Luke 1:35; John 7:16; 17:14).
His life was in existence in the spirit realm before he became a human through the power of God’s spirit.
He is the very beginning of God’s creation (Rev 3:14)....he is the “us” and “our” in Gen 1:26. God’s “firstborn”. (Col 1:15-17) He was a glorious spirit creature before he became Jesus the human, (John 17:5, 24) willing to sacrifice his life on behalf of those whose lives were turned upside down by the actions of one man. Adam could have altered the course of history if he had only remained obedient. The death of the entire human race was laid squarely at his feet. (Rom 5:12)
If, you study this for yourself, which I know you will do, the truth will become clear.
We can say the same to you.....you too could be misled by the great deceiver......Jesus will make it known soon enough who is a “sheep” and who is a stubborn “goat”. (Matt 7:21-23)
 
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face2face

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And yet the word “theophany” does not appear in any biblical manuscripts.

If God appeared to man, it would be a fatal exercise.....(Exodus 33:17-20)
The apostle John said.....”No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.” (John 1:18) How many people saw Jesus? The one who was “with God”, “at the Father’s side”, for eons before creation, explained to others who he was, and always will be.....the “one God” of Israel. (Deut 6:4; John 17:3)

God never “came down” as he is the Almighty and does not need to reduce himself in any way to accomplish his will and purpose. He does that by empowering his servants to do what is necessary to make adjustments in his responses to their decisions.
Jane are you running away with your own mind again?

"theophany" is a word which means a visible manifestation to human kind of God, which He did through His Son - you believe this, as you have taught this many times in this forum.

He has manifested himself through Holy Angels (Divine) through Prophets and Holy Men & Women of old and we are told in the Last days He did so through His Son

in these last days he (God) has spoken to us in a son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he created the world Heb 1:2

Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory. 1 Tim 3:16

Your assumptions and ignorance bores me Jane - you say I'm on ignore, then you respond to my posts and you draw to wrong conclusions without asking me a question to confirm what is being conveyed. You fail to respond to the posts which you have no answers for!

What would you do If you were in my shoes having to deal with your double mindedness?

For your information I wasn't teaching God literally came down from Heaven and appeared to Mankind as I've said hundreds of times in this forum no flesh can glory in His presence and would be consumed! What is meant is "He who has seen me has seen the Father" in character and this is "how" God has revealed himself to mankind!

F2F
 

face2face

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@Aunty Jane @TheHC

Theophany should be regarded as one of the means whereby God reveals himself to humanity. Whereas God’s special revelation may be divided into the broad categories of word and deed, God’s revelatory deeds occur as either theophany or miracle. A theophany is a form of divine revelation wherein God’s presence is made visible (or revealed in a *dream) and is recognizable to humanity
M. F. Rooker, "Theophany Dictionary of the Old Testament: Pentateuch (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 2003), 859–860.

Why didn't you just ask how I was using the word Jane, rather than writing your diatribe?

The irony is, you actually agree with the word as it describes the many ways God reveals Himself to mankind, its just that you took an extreme view and decided to "have a go".

Either leave me on ignore, or engage and be honest and genuine.

F2F
 

face2face

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@Aunty Jane, also do me the curtesy to say "I'm not responding to your replies to this post", so I don't waste my time casting pearls.
F2F
 

Aunty Jane

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You do you F2F…..your own tangents are a sight to behold……out on that limb all by yourself. Does yelling at me somehow make you feel better…? IMO your beliefs could not be further from the truth…..you seem to have been to the big supermarket in the sky, shopping for beliefs that suit your own ideas……it appears as if you have your very own religion.

Either leave me on ignore, or engage and be honest and genuine.
Been there, done that. I am always honest and genuine……I just strongly disagree with you. I can see that you chafe when people disagree with your far fetched ideas.

I’ll keep you anywhere I choose…..that is not your call. It’s a public forum.
 
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face2face

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You do you F2F….
You think you have it all sown up but the gaps in your knowledge are evident in many areas of these threads.

I recall asking you a simple question "why did Adam name Eve life" and you couldn't answer and you still can't answer for fear of learning something, which your congragation would reject. So many more divine principles you scoffed at!

.your own tangents are a sight to behold……out on that limb all by yourself. Does yelling at me somehow make you feel better…?

I'm not yelling, just telling it how it is - even your response shows no humility at all. You could have said "yeah, I jumped the gun on "Theophany", but that would expose you to correction, and to the possiblity that you are wrong, and a JW, as indoctrinated as you, cannot have this in a public forum.

IMO your beliefs could not be further from the truth…..you seem to have been to the big supermarket in the sky, shopping for beliefs that suit your own ideas……it appears as if you have your very own religion.

Go back over all the threads and discussions and see how many times you either could not respond, or would come back with nothing that relates to the text at hand. You run Jane, you ran from everything Genesis 3 was teaching, you also ran from our Ezek 28 discussion, because deep down you knew what the text was teaching you, unknown things, and that made you feel uncomfortable.

Been there, done that. I am always honest and genuine……

That's no true Jane, and you know it! Your replies are infrequent and rarely do they deal with the Scripture only what you want to project onto it.

I just strongly disagree with you. I can see that you chafe when people disagree with your far fetched ideas.

I’ll keep you anywhere I choose…..that is not your call. It’s a public forum.
This is about as far as you can go Jane in your defence of your truth.

Do me a favour...next time you want to correct me, first find out what it is I'm conveying before you launch into diatribe mode.

Sad part about all this is you have some good things to say more than not, but when proven wrong you riposte and then run.

F2F
 
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