Where does the Pope get his authority?

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Brakelite

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May I propose a slight correction? If the commandments of your church contradict what you understand to be the commandments of Jesus, you will obey Jesus. Fair?
Well no, not really. I mean, it isn't like anyone could disagree with scripture when Jesus said, "if you love Me, keep My Commandments." Of course, the question everyone then asks, what are Jesus's Commandments? Frankly, it isn't me again, or simply my opinion that declares that Exodus 20:2-17 are the commandments of God, given to Moses through the hands of the Son of God. Scripture states in no uncertain terms that the one who led Israel through the wilderness was Christ. Allow me to show this from scripture.
"For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us." Isaiah 33:22. We have now to consider Christ as in Hebrews 3:1. It is one that naturally results from His position as Creator, for the One who creates must certainly have authority to guide and control. We read in John 5:22, 23 the words of Christ, that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father." As Christ is the manifestation of the Father in creation, so is He the manifestation of the Father in giving and executing the law. A few texts of Scripture will suffice to prove this.
In Numbers 21:4-6 we have the partial record of an incident that took place while the children of Israel were in the wilderness. Let us read it.
"And they journeyed from Mount Hor by the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom; and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died."
The people spoke against God and against Moses, saying, Why have ye brought us up into the wilderness? They found fault with their Leader. This is why they were destroyed by serpents. Now read the words of the apostle Paul concerning this same event:
"Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents." 1 Cor. 10:9. What does this prove? That the Leader against whom they were murmuring was Christ. This is further proved by the fact that when Moses cast in his lot with Israel, refusing to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, he esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt. Heb. 11:26.
Read also 1 Cor. 10:4, where Paul says that the fathers "did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ."
So, then, Christ was the Leader of Israel from Egypt. The third chapter of Hebrews makes clear this same fact. Here we are told to consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful in all His house, not as a servant, but as a Son over His own house. Verses 1-6. Then we are told that we are His house if we hold fast our confidence to the end. Wherefore we are exhorted by the Holy Ghost to hear His voice and not to harden our hearts, as the fathers did in the wilderness.
"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; while it is said, Today if ye will hear His [Christ's] voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke; howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he [Christ] grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?" Verses 14-17.
Here again Christ is set forth as the Leader and Commander of Israel in their forty years' sojourn in the wilderness. The same thing is shown in Josh. 5:13-15, where we are told that the man whom Joshua saw by Jericho, having a sword drawn in his hand, in response to Joshua's question,
"Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?" said,
"Nay; but as Captain of the host of the Lord am I now come."
Indeed, no one will be found to dispute that Christ was the real Leader of Israel, although invisible. Moses, the visible leader of Israel, "endured as seeing Him who is invisible." It was Christ who commissioned Moses to go and deliver His people. Now read
Ex. 20:1-3:- "And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."
Who spoke these words? The One who brought them from Egypt. And who was the Leader of Israel from Egypt? It was Christ. Then who spoke the law from Mt. Sinai? It was Christ, the brightness of the Father's glory and the express image of His Person, who is the manifestation of God to man. It was the Creator of all created things and the One to whom all judgment has been committed. This point may be proved in another way. When the Lord comes, it will be with a shout (1 Thess. 4:16), which will pierce the tombs and arouse the dead (John 5:28, 29).
"The Lord shall roar from on high and utter His voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations; he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord." Jer. 25:30, 3.

Comparing this with Rev. 19:11-21, where Christ as the Leader of the armies of heaven, the Word of God, King of kings, and Lord of lords, goes forth to tread the wine- press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God, destroying all the wicked, we find that it is Christ who roars from His habitation against all the inhabitants of the earth, when He has His controversy with the nations. Joel adds another point, when he says,
"The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake." Joel 3:16.
From these texts, to which others might be added, we learn that in connection with the coming of the Lord to deliver His people, He speaks with a voice that shakes the earth and the heavens--"the earth shall reel to and from like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage" (Isa. 24:20), and "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" (2 Peter 3:10).
Now read Heb. 12:25,26:- "See that ye refuse not Him that speaketh; for if they escaped not who refused Him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him that speaketh from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
The time when the Voice speaking on earth shook the earth was when the law was spoken from Sinai (Ex. 19:18-20; Heb. 12:18- 20), an event that for awfulness has never had a parallel and never will have until the Lord comes with all the angels of heaven to save His people. But note: The same voice that then shook the earth will, in the coming time, shake not only earth, but heaven also, and we have seen that it is the voice of Christ that will sound with such volume as to shake heaven and earth when He has His controversy with the nations. Therefore it is demonstrated that it was the voice of Christ that was heard from Sinai, proclaiming the ten commandments. This is no more than would naturally be concluded from what we have learned concerning Christ as Creator and the Maker of the Sabbath.
This is what Protestantism has traditionally taught, that scripture explains scripture. Scripture doesn't need me to interpret, scripture interprets itself.
When the commandments of the church are contradictory to the commandments of Jesus according to who? YOU!!!
See above.
 

Brakelite

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You have decided that scripture says the historic Church has fallen away (much like the Mormons) that cannot be found ANYWHERE in scripture, you have decided to accept unbiblical polemics.
The apostles and even Jesus himself warned that there would be a great falling away from truth. That falling away we are told would begin with the demise of the last of the Apostles, and it would result in spiritual divorce, apostasy, a departure from what was originally a right relationship with Christ. There was only one church established by the apostles, but in many different locales. Obviously it wasn't the whole church that fell away, else none of us would be here today to discuss it...at least not as Christians. But one very significant section of them church did fall away, and prophecy offers many evidences by which that particular section could be clearly identified. So. It isn't me who has decided what's what. Scripture gives the evidence, all I need to do, all you need to do, is believe it.
 
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Marymog

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Well no, not really. I mean, it isn't like anyone could disagree with scripture when Jesus said, "if you love Me, keep My Commandments." Of course, the question everyone then asks, what are Jesus's Commandments? Frankly, it isn't me again, or simply my opinion that declares that Exodus 20:2-17 are the commandments of God, given to Moses through the hands of the Son of God. Scripture states in no uncertain terms that the one who led Israel through the wilderness was Christ. Allow me to show this from scripture.
"For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us." Isaiah 33:22. We have now to consider Christ as in Hebrews 3:1. It is one that naturally results from His position as Creator, for the One who creates must certainly have authority to guide and control. We read in John 5:22, 23 the words of Christ, that "the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son; that all men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father." As Christ is the manifestation of the Father in creation, so is He the manifestation of the Father in giving and executing the law. A few texts of Scripture will suffice to prove this.
In Numbers 21:4-6 we have the partial record of an incident that took place while the children of Israel were in the wilderness. Let us read it.
"And they journeyed from Mount Hor by the way of the Red Sea, to compass the land of Edom; and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died."
The people spoke against God and against Moses, saying, Why have ye brought us up into the wilderness? They found fault with their Leader. This is why they were destroyed by serpents. Now read the words of the apostle Paul concerning this same event:
"Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents." 1 Cor. 10:9. What does this prove? That the Leader against whom they were murmuring was Christ. This is further proved by the fact that when Moses cast in his lot with Israel, refusing to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, he esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt. Heb. 11:26.
Read also 1 Cor. 10:4, where Paul says that the fathers "did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them; and that Rock was Christ."
So, then, Christ was the Leader of Israel from Egypt. The third chapter of Hebrews makes clear this same fact. Here we are told to consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful in all His house, not as a servant, but as a Son over His own house. Verses 1-6. Then we are told that we are His house if we hold fast our confidence to the end. Wherefore we are exhorted by the Holy Ghost to hear His voice and not to harden our hearts, as the fathers did in the wilderness.
"For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end; while it is said, Today if ye will hear His [Christ's] voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke; howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he [Christ] grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness?" Verses 14-17.
Here again Christ is set forth as the Leader and Commander of Israel in their forty years' sojourn in the wilderness. The same thing is shown in Josh. 5:13-15, where we are told that the man whom Joshua saw by Jericho, having a sword drawn in his hand, in response to Joshua's question,
"Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?" said,
"Nay; but as Captain of the host of the Lord am I now come."
Indeed, no one will be found to dispute that Christ was the real Leader of Israel, although invisible. Moses, the visible leader of Israel, "endured as seeing Him who is invisible." It was Christ who commissioned Moses to go and deliver His people. Now read
Ex. 20:1-3:- "And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."
Who spoke these words? The One who brought them from Egypt. And who was the Leader of Israel from Egypt? It was Christ. Then who spoke the law from Mt. Sinai? It was Christ, the brightness of the Father's glory and the express image of His Person, who is the manifestation of God to man. It was the Creator of all created things and the One to whom all judgment has been committed. This point may be proved in another way. When the Lord comes, it will be with a shout (1 Thess. 4:16), which will pierce the tombs and arouse the dead (John 5:28, 29).
"The Lord shall roar from on high and utter His voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the Lord hath a controversy with the nations; he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the Lord." Jer. 25:30, 3.

Comparing this with Rev. 19:11-21, where Christ as the Leader of the armies of heaven, the Word of God, King of kings, and Lord of lords, goes forth to tread the wine- press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God, destroying all the wicked, we find that it is Christ who roars from His habitation against all the inhabitants of the earth, when He has His controversy with the nations. Joel adds another point, when he says,
"The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake." Joel 3:16.
From these texts, to which others might be added, we learn that in connection with the coming of the Lord to deliver His people, He speaks with a voice that shakes the earth and the heavens--"the earth shall reel to and from like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage" (Isa. 24:20), and "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" (2 Peter 3:10).
Now read Heb. 12:25,26:- "See that ye refuse not Him that speaketh; for if they escaped not who refused Him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him that speaketh from heaven; whose voice then shook the earth; but now He hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."
The time when the Voice speaking on earth shook the earth was when the law was spoken from Sinai (Ex. 19:18-20; Heb. 12:18- 20), an event that for awfulness has never had a parallel and never will have until the Lord comes with all the angels of heaven to save His people. But note: The same voice that then shook the earth will, in the coming time, shake not only earth, but heaven also, and we have seen that it is the voice of Christ that will sound with such volume as to shake heaven and earth when He has His controversy with the nations. Therefore it is demonstrated that it was the voice of Christ that was heard from Sinai, proclaiming the ten commandments. This is no more than would naturally be concluded from what we have learned concerning Christ as Creator and the Maker of the Sabbath.
This is what Protestantism has traditionally taught, that scripture explains scripture. Scripture doesn't need me to interpret, scripture interprets itself.

See above.
Nice try dodge ball. You are off topic. My question is based on authority of church leaders, your church leaders, so it is more on topic than most of your posts here. Please answer the question:

If you don't believe your elders, do you get disciplined?
 

Marymog

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Still off topic.
Nice try dodge ball. Look back at most of your post on this thread. They are OFF TOPIC. Lets try again:

If you don't believe your elders, do you get disciplined?
 

Marymog

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Catholics dont enjoy talking to me, because i reveal their denomination in a way that causes them to have to realize it.
And that is not pleasant.
This particular Forum, allows for it, so, i always appreciate this, very much.
Lol....YOU are telling ME why I don't enjoy talking to you? How about if you just ASK instead of presuming why I don't like talking to you?
 

Marymog

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I'm not sure what direction you are heading, or the purpose, as this thread topic isn't about me. Care to elaborate on the agenda you are following?
Lol.....The agenda I am following???? You crack me up Brakelite. As the walls start crumbling in on you you deflect and start pointing fingers or just refuse to answer my questions. I have learned that about you!!

This thread is about where the Pope gets his authority. Staying on the topic of authority and where it comes from, I asked you, and you haven't answered: Does the SDA teach the truth? Is that why you joined? Now I know you want to pretend that YOU haven't strayed from the topic and yet you still accuse me of straying from the topic because I make you uncomfortable with my questions about the authority of the men of YOUR church. You dodged the question, If you don't believe your elders, do you get disciplined? Why did you dodge that question and deflect? Because I made you uncomfortable! Or maybe, just maybe, you don't know the answer.

Your men, your elders, you religious leaders have given you rules over how to dress (Page 152), modern media (154), Recreation and Entertainment and music (155). Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage (chapter 14) and General Conference the Highest Authority (pg 31). Your denomination has a reason for and process of discipline (67,68). Your church manual literally says that bread/wine offered at communion are symbols representing His body. Yet Jesus said this IS my body/blood and Paul later re-affirmed that it IS a participation in His body and blood.

Where did your SDA men (and EG White) get their authority? Who authorized EG White to go against what Paul said and say communion is a symbol when Paul said that communion IS His body and blood, it IS Holy and if you defile it, you are guilty of SIN?
 
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Marymog

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'"DOING Penance""", in the Catholic sense is : "100 hail mary's and some ash Wed"...

Nothing "supernatural" about it.

Please try to be honest, @Jude Thaddeus , or you'll have to confess to your priest and then do some penance.

So, be careful.
Lol...You ask @Jude Thaddeus to be honest after you were dishonest? Who do you confess to (James 5:16)? :IDK:

Page #372-375 of the Catechism talks about Penance. So if you are going to be honest, which I know you won't be, quote ALL of what The Church teaches about Penance instead of bearing false witness that it is 100 Hail Mary's and some ash.

It makes me sad that @Pearl, who is a "Staff Member" and part of the Encounter team of this website, would "like" a comment by a member that bears false witness.

Mary

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Behold

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Lol....YOU are telling ME why I don't enjoy talking to you? How about if you just ASK instead of presuming why I don't like talking to you?

Hello,

Well, im glad you enjoy talking to me.
I enjoy talking to deceived Catholics.
I was telling another "cult of the virgin" member, who didnt like to see those Photos of 40 Ft Tall Plastic Mary's with the Pope praying to this Idol.... that just because i expose his cult's Theology, and demonic intent... this is not "personal".
Its not an attack on the Catholic Forum Member, as the Catholic is simply deceived by the 2nd Worst and oldest "christian" cult that the Devil ever created.

I told them that i am a great admirer of many historical Catholics, regarding their mystical relationship to the spiritual realm. as i can totally relate to this perspective.
I despise their false Doctrine, but completely relate to their spirituality.

A few ??

St. Francis

Mary of Egypt

Dionysius The Areopagite

Margeurite Porette

Hildegard of Bingen

Bernard of Clairvaux

Angela of Foligno
 

Behold

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what The Church teaches about Penance

When is the last time you had to do any penance?

How about "the first day of Lent".........you are told to Repent.......that you have a need to do it.

So, if you are REPENTING............ then you are committing carnal deeds.......or you are repenting for nothing.

Which is it?

So, Lets find out who is the liar....
 

Marymog

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Hello,

Well, im glad you enjoy talking to me.
I enjoy talking to deceived Catholics.
I was telling another "cult of the virgin" member, who didnt like to see those Photos of 40 Ft Tall Plastic Mary's with the Pope praying to this Idol.... that just because i expose his cult's Theology, and demonic intent... this is not "personal".
Its not an attack on the Catholic Forum Member, as the Catholic is simply deceived by the 2nd Worst and oldest "christian" cult that the Devil ever created.

I told them that i am a great admirer of many historical Catholics, regarding their mystical relationship to the spiritual realm. as i can totally relate to this perspective.
I despise their false Doctrine, but completely relate to their spirituality.

A few ??

St. Francis

Mary of Egypt

Dionysius The Areopagite

Margeurite Porette

Hildegard of Bingen

Bernard of Clairvaux

Angela of Folign
I asked you 2 questions dodgeball and you didn't answer them:

YOU are telling ME why I don't enjoy talking to you? How about if you just ASK instead of presuming why I don't like talking to you?
 

Marymog

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When is the last time you had to do any penance?

How about "the first day of Lent".........you are told to Repent.......that you have a need to do it.

So, if you are REPENTING............ then you are committing carnal deeds.......or you are repenting for nothing.

Which is it?

So, Lets find out who is the liar....
How about this kiddo. Stop partially quoting what I said and address everything that I said. I accused you of bearing false witness. Are you going to address your lie or continue your childish, gibberish rant promoting your anti-Catholic agenda?

Like I said in my post, of which you partially quoted to meet your deceitful agenda: So if you are going to be honest, which I know you won't be,

I was right, you refuse to be honest even after I called you out on it. :jest:

I already have you figured out and I barely even know you. :coff
 

Marymog

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Hello,

Well, im glad you enjoy talking to me.
I enjoy talking to deceived Catholics.
I was telling another "cult of the virgin" member, who didnt like to see those Photos of 40 Ft Tall Plastic Mary's with the Pope praying to this Idol.... that just because i expose his cult's Theology, and demonic intent... this is not "personal".
Its not an attack on the Catholic Forum Member, as the Catholic is simply deceived by the 2nd Worst and oldest "christian" cult that the Devil ever created.

I told them that i am a great admirer of many historical Catholics, regarding their mystical relationship to the spiritual realm. as i can totally relate to this perspective.
I despise their false Doctrine, but completely relate to their spirituality.

A few ??

St. Francis

Mary of Egypt

Dionysius The Areopagite

Margeurite Porette

Hildegard of Bingen

Bernard of Clairvaux

Angela of Foligno
Lol....You do know that individual Catholics don't make doctrine for The Church? Right? So the names you listed can not make doctrine for The Church any more than I can. You crack me up...

But let's stay in your anti-Catholic, lack of knowledge about your own Christian history or The Church you hate so much.

The Church teaches false doctrine according to who? YOU? Since you KNOW that the doctrines of The Church are false, you must know what is TRUE. From whom did you get true doctrine?

Curious Mary

PS: I know you won't answer but at least I am giving you a chance to reveal to everyone what men you follow and trust to give you the truth
 

Behold

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I asked you 2 questions dodgeball and you didn't answer them:

YOU are telling ME why I don't enjoy talking to you?

So you enjoy our discussions?
As you have to read them. .and in them, i expose why you are doing penance, and i show you your POPE worshipping a Plastic statue.

on and on .....

You enjoy this?

Really?

Maybe you can get back to reality., or just try to be honest.
 

Brakelite

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Nice try dodge ball. You are off topic. My question is based on authority of church leaders, your church leaders, so it is more on topic than most of your posts here. Please answer the question:

If you don't believe your elders, do you get disciplined?
This thread topic is about Papal authority, you are asking me about biblical church authority, an entirely different fish and one which my church does subscribe to.

We reject the following as tyrannical, despotic, and satanic.


The Pope's "authority" is not merely to the "church" but the claim of the Magisterium of Rome, is that the "Pope" has authority over all states (political entities, whether Kings, Emperors, Presidents, &c, as the ideology teaches that the spiritual should rule over, control, the secular). To this end, the current Canon Law of Rome, clearly states that:

" … Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one. …" [Roman Catholic Canon Law; BOOK VII PROCESSES; Part I. TRIALS IN GENERAL (Cann. 1400 – 1403); TITLE I. THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)] - Code of Canon Law: Table of Contents

" … Can. 1406 §1. If the prescript of ⇒ can. 1404 is violated, the acts and decisions are considered as not to have been placed.

§2. In the cases mentioned in ⇒ can. 1405, the incompetence of other judges is absolute. …" [Roman Catholic Canon Law; BOOK VII PROCESSES; Part I. TRIALS IN GENERAL (Cann. 1400 – 1403); TITLE I. THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)] - Code of Canon Law: Table of Contents

" … Can. 1405 §1. It is solely the right of the Roman Pontiff himself to judge in the cases mentioned in ⇒ can. 1401:

1/ those who hold the highest civil office of a state;

2/ cardinals;

3/ legates of the Apostolic See and, in penal cases, bishops;

4/ other cases which he has called to his own judgment.

§2. A judge cannot review an act or instrument confirmed specifically (in forma specifica) by the Roman Pontiff without his prior mandate.

§3. Judgment of the following is reserved to the Roman Rota:

1/ bishops in contentious matters, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 1419, §2;

2/ an abbot primate or abbot superior of a monastic congregation and a supreme moderator of religious institutes of pontifical right;

3/ dioceses or other physical or juridic ecclesiastical persons which do not have a superior below the Roman Pontiff. …" [Roman Catholic Canon Law; BOOK VII PROCESSES; Part I. TRIALS IN GENERAL (Cann. 1400 – 1403); TITLE I. THE COMPETENT FORUM (Cann. 1404 - 1416)] - Code of Canon Law: Table of Contents

This is confirmed by the Online Catholic Library, Encyclopedia, and by Augustine:

"...We are informed by the texts of the gospels that in this Church and in its power are two swords; namely, the spiritual and the temporal. For when the Apostles say: "Behold, here are two swords" [Lk 22:38] that is to say, in the Church, since the Apostles were speaking, the Lord did not reply that there were too many, but sufficient. Certainly the one who denies that the temporal sword is in the power of Peter has not listened well to the word of the Lord commanding: "Put up thy sword into thy scabbard" [Mt 26:52]. Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Library, New Advent Online, Church Documents; Unam Sanctam; His Holiness Pope Boniface VIII; November 18, 1302]

-------

"...Then follow some principles and conclusions concerning the spiritual and the secular power:

Under the control of the Church are two swords, that is two powers, the expression referring to the medieval theory of the two swords, the spiritual and the secular. This is substantiated by the customary reference to the swords of the Apostles at the arrest of Christ (Luke 22:38; Matthew 26:52).

Both swords are in the power of the Church; the spiritual is wielded in the Church by the hand of the clergy; the secular is to be employed for the Church by the hand of the civil authority, but under the direction of the spiritual power.


The one sword must be subordinate to the other: the earthly power must submit to the spiritual authority, as this has precedence of the secular on account of its greatness and sublimity; for the spiritual power has the right to establish and guide the secular power, and also to judge it when it does not act rightly. When, however, the earthly power goes astray, it is judged by the spiritual power; a lower spiritual power is judged by a higher, the highest spiritual power is judged by God.

This authority, although granted to man, and exercised by man, is not a human authority, but rather a Divine one, granted to Peter by Divine commission and confirmed in him and his successors. Consequently, whoever opposes this power ordained of God opposes the law of God and seems, like a Manichaean, to accept two principles.

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff" (Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanae creaturae declaramus, dicimus, definimus, et pronuntiamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis).


The Bull is universal in character. … In the registers, on the margin of the text of the record, the last sentence is noted as its real definition: "Declaratio quod subesse Romano Pontifici est omni humanae creaturae de necessitate salutis" (It is here stated that for salvation it is necessary that every human creature be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff). ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia, New Advent Online; section on Unum Sanctum]

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"...Its chief concepts are as follows (Hergenröther-Kirsch, 4th ed., II, 593): (1) There is but one true Church, outside of which there is no salvation; but one body of Christ with one head and not two. (2) That head is Christ and His representative, the Roman pope; whoever refuses the pastoral care of Peter belongs not to the flock of Christ. (3) There are two swords (i.e., powers), the spiritual and the temporal; the first borne by the Church, the second for the Church; the first by the hand of the priest, the second by that of the king, but under the direction of the priest (ad nutum et patientiam sacerdotis). (4) Since there must be a co- ordination of members from the lowest to the highest, it follows that the spiritual power is above the temporal and has the right to instruct (or establish--instituere) the latter regarding its highest end and to judge it when it does evil; whoever resists the highest power ordained of God resists God Himself. (5) It is necessary for salvation that all men should be subject to the Roman Pontiff--"Porro subesse Romano Pontifici omni humanæ creaturæ declaramus, dicimus, definimus et pronunciamus omnino esse de necessitate salutis". ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia, New Advent Online; Pope Boniface VIII; (BENEDETTO GAETANO)]

Now the quote of Bellarmine, states that "All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope."

Therefore, all names of Christ, as scripture gives to Him, Bellarmine states are also the names as applied to the "Pope". Some of the very names of Christ in scripture are "I AM" (John 8:58), "God" (Hebrews 1:9), "Lord" ("JEHOVAH", Hebrews 1:10), "Everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6), etc. Christ is "Head" (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 4:15, 5:23; Colossians 1:18, 2:10) over the church.
 
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Behold

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Lol....You do know that individual Catholics don't make doctrine for The Church?

1.) "Perpetual virgin" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

2.) "ascension of Mary" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

3.) "Rosary // Prayer" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

4.) "Born again BY water"...... = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

5.) "Peter is the 1st POPE" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine.

6.) "Mary is "co-author of Salvation" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

7.) "Ash Wednesday" = Man made Catholic nonsense

8.) "Priests supernaturally turn the cookie into the literal body of Christ".. = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

9.) "Water baptizing babies". = Man made Catholic Doctrine

10.) "confirmed into the Catholic Cult" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

11.) "Purgatory " = Man made Catholic Doctrine

12.) "penance" = Man made Catholic Doctrine

13.) "Exorcists on Vatican Staff" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

15.) Feast Days of Mary : include :

  • Mother of God - 1st January.
  • Our Lady of Lourdes - 11th February.
  • Annunciation - 25th March.
  • The Visitation - 31st May.
  • The Assumption of Mary - 15th August.
  • Our Lady's Birthday - 8th September.
  • Our Lady of the Rosary - 7th October.
  • Immaculate Conception - 8th December.
  • All Saints (*Days)....
All this is man made Catholic nonsense.
 
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Jude Thaddeus

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Lol....You do know that individual Catholics don't make doctrine for The Church? Right? So the names you listed can not make doctrine for The Church any more than I can. You crack me up...

But let's stay in your anti-Catholic, lack of knowledge about your own Christian history or The Church you hate so much.

The Church teaches false doctrine according to who? YOU? Since you KNOW that the doctrines of The Church are false, you must know what is TRUE. From whom did you get true doctrine?

Curious Mary

PS: I know you won't answer but at least I am giving you a chance to reveal to everyone what men you follow and trust to give you the truth
He drank 1/5th KoolAid of Alexander Hislop, 2/5th from paranoid funnymentalists, and 2/5th from Ku Klux Klan theology, shaken, not stirred, with crushed ice from the internet.:p
 

Behold

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He drank 1/5th KoolAid of Alexander Hislop, 2/5th from paranoid funnymentalists, and 2/5th from Ku Klux Klan theology, shaken, not stirred, with crushed ice from the internet.:p

@Jude Thaddeus

""Popular Catholic Cult lies...""


1.) "Perpetual virgin" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

2.) "ascension of Mary" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

3.) "Rosary // Prayer" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

4.) "Born again BY water"...... = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

5.) "Peter is the 1st POPE" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine.

6.) "Mary is "co-author of Salvation" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

7.) "Ash Wednesday" = Man made Catholic nonsense

8.) "Priests supernaturally turn the cookie into the literal body of Christ".. = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

9.) "Water baptizing babies". = Man made Catholic Doctrine

10.) "confirmed into the Catholic Cult" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

11.) "Purgatory " = Man made Catholic Doctrine

12.) "penance" = Man made Catholic Doctrine

13.) "Exorcists on Vatican Staff" = Man Made Catholic Doctrine

15.) Feast Days of Mary : include :

  • Mother of God - 1st January.
  • Our Lady of Lourdes - 11th February.
  • Annunciation - 25th March.
  • The Visitation - 31st May.
  • The Assumption of Mary - 15th August.
  • Our Lady's Birthday - 8th September.
  • Our Lady of the Rosary - 7th October.
  • Immaculate Conception - 8th December.
  • All Saints (*Days)....
All this is man made Catholic nonsense.
 
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RedFan

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Now the quote of Bellarmine, states that "All names which in the scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that he is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope."

Therefore, all names of Christ, as scripture gives to Him, Bellarmine states are also the names as applied to the "Pope". Some of the very names of Christ in scripture are "I AM" (John 8:58), "God" (Hebrews 1:9), "Lord" ("JEHOVAH", Hebrews 1:10), "Everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6), etc. Christ is "Head" (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 4:15, 5:23; Colossians 1:18, 2:10) over the church.
Methinks you are overreaching a bit with this one, my friend. Names in Scripture suggesting Christ as head of the church were indeed suggested by Cardinal Bellarmine as applicable to the Pope (1 Corinthians 11:3; Ephesians 4:15, 5:23; Colossians 1:18, 2:10). But that's as far as he went. He would be appalled to see you ascribe to him any suggestion that the Pope should be called "I AM" (John 8:58), "God" (Hebrews 1:9), "Lord" ("JEHOVAH", Hebrews 1:10), "Everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

His full quote (my translation) is "all the names, which in the scriptures are attributed to Christ, proving him to be above the Church, are in the same manner attributed to the Pontiff: as first, Christ is head of the family in his house, which is the Church, the Pontiff is highest manager in the same [house], that is, head of the family in place of Christ." (For you Latin fans out there, "omnia nomina, quae in scripturis tribuuntur Christo, unde constat eum esse supra Ecclesiam, eadem omnia tribuuntur Pontifici: ac primum, Christus est paterfamilias in domo sua, quae est Ecclesia, Pontifex in eadem, est summus oeconomus, id est, paterfamilias loco Christi.")
 

Brakelite

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Historical and Prophetic claim to global supremacy and authority, and the biblical denunciation of such principles.

KJV Revelation 13:2
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

That dragon was the same dragon that stood before the woman to destroy the child; that dragon stood there in the guise of the Roman puppet king, Herod. That same Roman power in later centuries in the guise of the emperor Justinian, gave the bishop of Rome his official sanction to rule over all the churches. This power... This Roman seat... This papal throne... Was granted to the bishop of Rome by Justinian as part of what became known as Justinian's Code, a rule of law that would dominate European politics and religion for over a 1000 years. More on that shortly. This took place in 533ad. While the Catholic power in Rome wained back and forth over the centuries, Justinian's Code laid the legal and prophetic foundation for the rise of the Papacy.
AD March 533: Justinian's letter to John reads:

"Justinian: victor, pius, fortunate, ever Augustus, to John, the most holy Archbishop and patriarch of the noble city of Rome. Paying honor to the Apostolic See and to Your Holiness, as always has been and is our desire, and honoring your Blessedness as a father, we hasten to bring to the knowledge of Your Holiness all that pertains to the condition of the churches , since it has always been our great aim to safeguard the unity of your Apostolic See and the position of the holy churches of God which now prevails and abides securely without any disturbing trouble. Therefore we have been sedulous to subject and unite all the priests of the Orient throughout its whole extent to the See of Your Holiness. Whatever questions happen to be mooted at present , we have thought necessary to be brought to Your Holiness' knowledge, however clear and unquestionable they might be, and though firmly held and taught by all the clergy in accordance with the doctrine of Your Apostolic See; for we do not suffer that anything which is moored to Your Holiness, however clear and unquestionable, pertaining to the state of the churches, should fail to be known to Your Holiness, as being the head of all the churches. For as we have said before, we are zealous for the increase of the honor and authority of your See in all respects."2 Croly quotes a letter of March 25, 533 from Justinian to Epiphanius where Justinian repeats the parts of the statement above, which had been sent earlier in March, that the Bishop of Rome is: "head of all Bishops and the true and effective corrector of heretics [sic]."

Justinian's Code in the edicts of the "Novellae;" in the preamble of the ninth it states:



"that the elder Rome was the founder of the laws; so was it not to be questioned that in her was the supremacy of the pontificate." In the 131st; chap. II, on the ecclesiastical titles and privileges it states: "We therefore decree that the most holy Pope of the elder Rome is the first of all the priesthood, and that the most blessed Archbishop of Constantinople, the new Rome, shall hold the second rank after the holy Apostolic chair of the elder Rome."

Pagan Rome, not the Apostles nor Christ, laid the legal political and prophetic foundation for the establishment of the Papacy. 533ad was the date of the legal granting of civil and religious power to the bishop of Rome.

There is a twist to all this however, because Rome at that time was under an occupying power, and enemies to the Byzantine emperor, it was necessary that the city be liberated before the pontiff could exercise his new found authority. Legal authority is useless unless it could be put into effect right? This is where prophecy comes to the fore. This took place in 538ad when Bellisarius defeated the Goths and that Arian kingdom could no longer exercise power over the bishop, for until that time the Gothic king Theodosius had the final say on appointing bishops. So you can mark 538ad on your prophetic calendar.
Prophecy gives us however a clue that history attests to as a remarkable confirmation of the identity of the beast.

KJV Revelation 13:5
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The above time span is repeated 7 times in scripture in the form of 1260 days, times, time and half a time ( 3 and half years), and 42 months. (Daniel 7:25; 12:7 Rev. 11:2,3; 12:6, 14; 13:5.)
Not only in reference to the life of the Antichrist, but also to the time when the church is persecuted by the Antichrist and is therefore in survival mode in the wilderness, Revelation 12:6.
So, the question, did anything happen to the Papacy 1260 days, 42 months, or times time and half a time later,? No. Not if you take those times as literal. But if you use scripture to interpret scripture, precedent reveals that one prophetic day equals one literal year. Then the question is, did anything take place 1260 years after 538ad? And the answer is an emphatic yes.
1798 was a year of dramatic change for the Papacy. This was for several reasons.
According to Daniel 7:25, the little horn was to have power over the saints (the church) for 1260 days, or in real time, 1260 years. The rule of the papacy, as I mentioned in a previously, began in 538AD with the final expulsion of the Ostrogoths from Rome, the last of the 3 horns to be uprooted. It’s rule continued until 1798 when Napoleon’s general, Berthier, entered Rome and took the pope captive. The college of cardinals was disbanded and Rome declared a republic. All papal states were confiscated. The pope died in exile 2 years later. To all intents and purposes, the Roman Catholic church as a church/state union was finished. No longer was there a pope holding civil authority in Rome, and thus the secular authority she used to try and execute who she branded as heretics was over. Exactly 1260 years after it began.
This represents another prophetic fulfillment.
KJV Revelation 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.