When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[Timtofly]

Where does the Bible say Satan sits on the throne declaring himself to be God?

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

 

[Timtofly]

False.
Jesus said his followers are persecuted before he comes in the clouds.
This is the tribulation Jesus spoke of.


Mathew 24
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Mark 13
9 “You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them.

10 And the gospel must first be preached to all nations.
11 Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

12 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.
13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

According to revelation and Daniel ,this persecution lasts 42 months at the hands of the beast.Then the beast and false prophet are destroyed.

Yes, that tribulation has been ongoing for 2 millennia. Do you think it stopped at some point since the first century?

Every person born of the second birth are to persevere until their final breath, the end of their life of suffering for Jesus Christ. That has applied to every generation, not just a single generation.

There is no Scripture stating persecution during those last 42 months. To have one's head chopped off is a personal choice. That is their moment of testimony to their submission to God. These are not martyrs like those who are currently beheaded by Muslims in this generation, or any past generation. They are not believers prior to their head being chopped off. The act of chopping off their head makes them a believer, at the point of death.

No one is trying to persevere as a believer during those last 42 months of the 8th kingdom. You are either physically dead or have the mark. There is not a third option, of avoiding death. To avoid the mark is the act of faith in chopping off one's head.

 

[Timtofly]

No, that is your hallucinatory attempted contortion of inspired interpretive Scripture to conform to your futurized fantasies and fallacies.

You fail again and always.

Because "...the scripture cannot be broken". John 10:35

The only topic here is your projection of your ideology. Nothing in this exchange is about me. The point is your broken record of false accusations.

 

[covenantee]

The only topic here is your projection of your ideology. Nothing in this exchange is about me. The point is your broken record of false accusations.

"...the scripture cannot be broken". John 10:35

No matter how hard you try.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, that tribulation has been ongoing for 2 millennia. Do you think it stopped at some point since the first century?

Every person born of the second birth are to persevere until their final breath, the end of their life of suffering for Jesus Christ. That has applied to every generation, not just a single generation.

There is no Scripture stating persecution during those last 42 months. To have one's head chopped off is a personal choice. That is their moment of testimony to their submission to God. These are not martyrs like those who are currently beheaded by Muslims in this generation, or any past generation. They are not believers prior to their head being chopped off. The act of chopping off their head makes them a believer, at the point of death.

No one is trying to persevere as a believer during those last 42 months of the 8th kingdom. You are either physically dead or have the mark. There is not a third option, of avoiding death. To avoid the mark is the act of faith in chopping off one's head.

False

From the time the second beast appears Israel,the beast has 42 months.
The saints who are murdered for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God and who did not worship the beast or it's image or recieve it's mark die within that ,42 months span.

Revelation13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


These saints are the same saints who are persecuted by the beast for a time ,times and a half in Daniel 7

Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time


Reading revelation 12,we learn that this time,times and a half is 1260 days which is exactly 42 months on the Hebrew calendar.


Yet again in Daniel 11,we find the same persecution before the time of the end which takes place for a time,times and a half.This persecution includes imprisoned and death as it does in revelation 13.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

Again ,this tribulation lasts for a time,times and a half.

Daniel 12:6-7
One of them asked the man dressed in linen, who was now standing above the river, “How long will it be until these shocking events are over?”
The man dressed in linen, who was standing above the river, raised both his hands toward heaven and took a solemn oath by the One who lives forever, saying, “It will go on for a time, times, and half a time. When the shattering of the holy people has finally come to an end, all these things will have happened.”


And as I said ,we learn from revelation 12 that a time,times and a half is 3.5 years.1260 days.
The same amount of time the saints in revelation 13 are given into the hands of he beast which is 42 months.

Revelation 12
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.


Yet again,we see the saints who are persecuted for these 42 months here in revelation 12.

Revelation 12
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


These Israelis do not flee into the wilderness but instead do what Jesus commands them to do in the gospel .Preach the gospel and warn Israel to repent.The kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[tailgator]

Yes, that tribulation has been ongoing for 2 millennia. Do you think it stopped at some point since the first century?

Every person born of the second birth are to persevere until their final breath, the end of their life of suffering for Jesus Christ. That has applied to every generation, not just a single generation.

There is no Scripture stating persecution during those last 42 months. To have one's head chopped off is a personal choice. That is their moment of testimony to their submission to God. These are not martyrs like those who are currently beheaded by Muslims in this generation, or any past generation. They are not believers prior to their head being chopped off. The act of chopping off their head makes them a believer, at the point of death.

No one is trying to persevere as a believer during those last 42 months of the 8th kingdom. You are either physically dead or have the mark. There is not a third option, of avoiding death. To avoid the mark is the act of faith in chopping off one's head.

The reason these saints are killed is because they are preaching the gospel of which they are sent to do.They have already recievec the holy Ghost before being sent to testify of Jesus.



Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.



The third option which you say does not exist is to flee into the wilderness for those 1260. Days.I expect at least 100,000 to flee into the wilderness.


Revelation 12
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.


She will be able to return to the land of Israel after the 1260 days.

 

[Timtofly]

False

From the time the second beast appears Israel,the beast has 42 months.
The saints who are murdered for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God and who did not worship the beast or it's image or recieve it's mark die within that ,42 months span.

Revelation13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


These saints are the same saints who are persecuted by the beast for a time ,times and a half in Daniel 7

Daniel 7
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time


Reading revelation 12,we learn that this time,times and a half is 1260 days which is exactly 42 months on the Hebrew calendar.


Yet again in Daniel 11,we find the same persecution before the time of the end which takes place for a time,times and a half.This persecution includes imprisoned and death as it does in revelation 13.

Daniel 11:33-35
Wise leaders will give instruction to many, but these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.
During these persecutions, little help will arrive, and many who join them will not be sincere.
And some of the wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

Again ,this tribulation lasts for a time,times and a half.

Daniel 12:6-7
One of them asked the man dressed in linen, who was now standing above the river, “How long will it be until these shocking events are over?”
The man dressed in linen, who was standing above the river, raised both his hands toward heaven and took a solemn oath by the One who lives forever, saying, “It will go on for a time, times, and half a time. When the shattering of the holy people has finally come to an end, all these things will have happened.”


And as I said ,we learn from revelation 12 that a time,times and a half is 3.5 years.1260 days.
The same amount of time the saints in revelation 13 are given into the hands of he beast which is 42 months.

Revelation 12
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.


Yet again,we see the saints who are persecuted for these 42 months here in revelation 12.

Revelation 12
17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.


These Israelis do not flee into the wilderness but instead do what Jesus commands them to do in the gospel .Preach the gospel and warn Israel to repent.The kingdom of God is at hand.

The only ones who die, are those beheaded at the alter call of the two witnesses.

No one dies of natural causes as a believer during those 42 months. The church left months prior to those 42 months.

Israel was removed before the Gentile wheat was removed. The final harvest is over before the 7th Trumpet sounds.

Those 42 months are the 3rd woe after the 7th Trumpet. The only one preaching the gospel is:

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

How do they worship:

"the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands"

They worship God by chopping their heads off.

Those last 42 months ending with Armageddon are upside down. The Abomination of desolation means one must physically die to have eternal life. To obtain the second death, one must live to receive the mark. The only ones left at the end are the 2 witnesses, and even they are killed, and lay dead for 3.5 days, while the 7 vials of God's wrath are poured out.

Israel as redeemed are not on the earth during those 42 months. The place of safety is the sea of glass. They return on white horses in Revelation 19.

Do you not understand that one is still a saint and in the Lamb's book of life until God removes their name? That is the confirmation of the Atonement Covenant in Daniel 9:27. Those beheaded are the many to whom the Covenant is still strong. But they are not redeemed out of sin, until they chop their head off, and that is the point of their redemption. Satan wants them to worship him, and receive the mark. Receiving the mark is when God removes them from the Lamb's book of life. The war waged is Satan attempting to get the last of humanity to take the mark. That is a spiritual war, not a physical war. Satan is the ruler of the entire world, and mystery Babylon is based in Jerusalem. Satan is sitting on the throne Jesus had been sitting on.

The daily sacrifice, salvation by grace, has been removed from the earth. No one will openly profess Christ. Either one takes the mark and joins Satan's economy or chops off their head. That is the only choice of redemption.

Did you not post an implication that the 2 witnesses only go around killing people, instead of leading them to Christ? Do you not see that the only way to Christ is chopping one's head off? Post trib people think one has to endure until the end to be saved, when the only salvation is chopping one's head off. They certainly think many will still be alive to be "caught up" at Armageddon from "somewhere?".

The time of Jacob's trouble was during the first 6 Trumpets. That is when one must endure if one must. But enduring has been ongoing since the Cross. Many have had to endure to the end of their life, even as they were being physically martyred. Being faithful to God has not been for just a single future generation. You are confusing the past persecution and spread of the Gospel to a time post the Second Coming, when there is no Gospel preached except by an angel.

You are mistaken in your eschatology, because you do not place Jesus and His angels as being on the earth between the 6th Seal and the 7th Trumpet. Matthew 13 states that Jesus is personally on earth "sowing the seed". Matthew 25 states clearly Jesus is on the earth on a throne in Jerusalem when the sheep are being gathered live from all nations to stand in judgment in Jerusalem. This coming is the 5th and 6th Seal. This places Jesus on the earth when the 144k are sealed. They then follow Jesus wherever He goes on the earth or off the earth. They are the second coming (Prince on the earth) disciples like the 12 disciples at the first coming. Obviously from every nation, and they have a broader ministry than just the ME. But not even the 144k are on the earth for those last 42 months. Only the 2 witnesses going around "killing people" as you put it. Those beheaded, don't go around spreading the gospel. They are physically dead once their head is severed from the body. They are not "born again", until their head is removed.

 

[tailgator]

The only ones who die, are those beheaded at the alter call of the two witnesses.

No one dies of natural causes as a believer during those 42 months. The church left months prior to those 42 months.

Israel was removed before the Gentile wheat was removed. The final harvest is over before the 7th Trumpet sounds.

Those 42 months are the 3rd woe after the 7th Trumpet. The only one preaching the gospel is:

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters."

How do they worship:

"the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands"

They worship God by chopping their heads off.

Those last 42 months ending with Armageddon are upside down. The Abomination of desolation means one must physically die to have eternal life. To obtain the second death, one must live to receive the mark. The only ones left at the end are the 2 witnesses, and even they are killed, and lay dead for 3.5 days, while the 7 vials of God's wrath are poured out.

Israel as redeemed are not on the earth during those 42 months. The place of safety is the sea of glass. They return on white horses in Revelation 19.

Do you not understand that one is still a saint and in the Lamb's book of life until God removes their name? That is the confirmation of the Atonement Covenant in Daniel 9:27. Those beheaded are the many to whom the Covenant is still strong. But they are not redeemed out of sin, until they chop their head off, and that is the point of their redemption. Satan wants them to worship him, and receive the mark. Receiving the mark is when God removes them from the Lamb's book of life. The war waged is Satan attempting to get the last of humanity to take the mark. That is a spiritual war, not a physical war. Satan is the ruler of the entire world, and mystery Babylon is based in Jerusalem. Satan is sitting on the throne Jesus had been sitting on.

The daily sacrifice, salvation by grace, has been removed from the earth. No one will openly profess Christ. Either one takes the mark and joins Satan's economy or chops off their head. That is the only choice of redemption.

Did you not post an implication that the 2 witnesses only go around killing people, instead of leading them to Christ? Do you not see that the only way to Christ is chopping one's head off? Post trib people think one has to endure until the end to be saved, when the only salvation is chopping one's head off. They certainly think many will still be alive to be "caught up" at Armageddon from "somewhere?".

The time of Jacob's trouble was during the first 6 Trumpets. That is when one must endure if one must. But enduring has been ongoing since the Cross. Many have had to endure to the end of their life, even as they were being physically martyred. Being faithful to God has not been for just a single future generation. You are confusing the past persecution and spread of the Gospel to a time post the Second Coming, when there is no Gospel preached except by an angel.

You are mistaken in your eschatology, because you do not place Jesus and His angels as being on the earth between the 6th Seal and the 7th Trumpet. Matthew 13 states that Jesus is personally on earth "sowing the seed". Matthew 25 states clearly Jesus is on the earth on a throne in Jerusalem when the sheep are being gathered live from all nations to stand in judgment in Jerusalem. This coming is the 5th and 6th Seal. This places Jesus on the earth when the 144k are sealed. They then follow Jesus wherever He goes on the earth or off the earth. They are the second coming (Prince on the earth) disciples like the 12 disciples at the first coming. Obviously from every nation, and they have a broader ministry than just the ME. But not even the 144k are on the earth for those last 42 months. Only the 2 witnesses going around "killing people" as you put it. Those beheaded, don't go around spreading the gospel. They are physically dead once their head is severed from the body. They are not "born again", until their head is removed.

"Do you not see that the only way to Christ is chopping one's head off? "


So you chopped your own head off before coming to Christ?

Really,?

Did you use an ax or a sword to remove your own head?

 

[Timtofly]

"Do you not see that the only way to Christ is chopping one's head off? "


So you chopped your own head off before coming to Christ?

Really,?

Did you use an ax or a sword to remove your own head?

This only applies to those 42 months. It is not symbolic of anything.

The Atonement of salvation was taken away. Why do you think that taken away means still available?

 

[tailgator]

This only applies to those 42 months. It is not symbolic of anything.

The Atonement of salvation was taken away. Why do you think that taken away means still available?

People do not testify of Christ by chopping their own heads off.
They are beheaded by other people for testifying of Christ.People testify of Christ by spreading the gospel .Teaching of Jesus and his sacrifice .

Jesus never instructs anyone to chop their own heads off.Have you never read the gospel of Jesus Christ where he tells his followers they will be persecuted before he comes?


Mathew 10

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.





These people are not dying from chopping their own head off.
Jesus followers are instructed to preach the gospel right up to the day he comes..And he tells them they will be persecuted and killed for doing so.Jesus does not tell his followers to kill themselves.

 

[CTK]

I do not believe that I have replied to any of the 49 pages of responses / comments on this topic. If I may, can anyone first tell me their interpretation of just what is the "AOD?" I am sure there are more than one or two major interpretations - perhaps some preterist and many futurist... thanks.

 

[covenantee]

I do not believe that I have replied to any of the 49 pages of responses / comments on this topic. If I may, can anyone first tell me their interpretation of just what is the "AOD?" I am sure there are more than one or two major interpretations - perhaps some preterist and many futurist... thanks.

Matthew 24:15 is interpreted by its parallel synoptic verse in Luke 21:20.

The AOD was the armies surrounding Jerusalem.

 

[tailgator]

I do not believe that I have replied to any of the 49 pages of responses / comments on this topic. If I may, can anyone first tell me their interpretation of just what is the "AOD?" I am sure there are more than one or two major interpretations - perhaps some preterist and many futurist... thanks.

My interpretation of what the Abomination of desolation is ,is a nuke.
Daniel wrote that the armed forces of the king of he north set it in Jerusalem and Jesus said there would be great tribulation at that time.
The people in judea see it from their rooftops and fields and flee into the mountains in haste.
Jesus and revelation describes a great earthquake and fearful signs in the heavens and the heavens departing as a scroll being rolled together.

The great tribulation caused by this takes place after the king of the north goes forth to destroy and annihilate many

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.


I believe it is Israel's policy called the Samson option which is to bring down the house upon all of israels enemies both inside and outside of Israel after Israel has been overrun.I believe the United states is the country to do it and all of the middle east will lay waste from Iran to Egypt


The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, romanized: b'rerat shimshon) is Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.[1]



Many nukes in many cities.

 

[CTK]

Matthew 24:15 is interpreted by its parallel synoptic verse in Luke 21:20.

The AOD was the armies surrounding Jerusalem.

Thank you.

 

[CTK]

My interpretation of what the Abomination of desolation is ,is a nuke.
Daniel wrote that the armed forces of the king of he north set it in Jerusalem and Jesus said there would be great tribulation at that time.
The people in judea see it from their rooftops and fields and flee into the mountains in haste.
Jesus and revelation describes a great earthquake and fearful signs in the heavens and the heavens departing as a scroll being rolled together.

The great tribulation caused by this takes place after the king of the north goes forth to destroy and annihilate many

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.


I believe it is Israel's policy called the Samson option which is to bring down the house upon all of israels enemies both inside and outside of Israel after Israel has been overrun.I believe the United states is the country to do it and all of the middle east will lay waste from Iran to Egypt


The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, romanized: b'rerat shimshon) is Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.[1]



Many nukes in many cities.

Thank you.

 

[CTK]

Ok, I was hoping there might be a few more different interpretations.... there are certainly a few out there I believe. Unless I am not seeing them all, at least the top few interpretations, there maybe 3 to consider?

1) futurist view that predicts the war of all wars kind of thing... coming of a mythical (my opinion) anti-christ figure and all of this is within the unscriptural (my opinion) 7 year tribulation theory,

2) a preterist view that goes back to the time of AE when he placed a pig in the Temple and killed many Jews,

3) a 3rd view that connects with the destruction of everything in 70 AD.

As you can see, these are very, very different interpretations and they are supported by those scholars, academics and theologians from at least the past 300 years... So, you are all in good company but it does show just how complicated the Book of Daniel truly is! The good news is (for me) is that you just can't take your eyes off of Daniel - it is such a colorful, unbelievable and enigmatic book that covers over 2600 years with no extra words, letters, etc., and without any mistakes within the 12 chapters. And if our hands each had 6 fingers, they would all come together so perfectly as the 12 chapters, they would fit seamlessly and have one perfectly interlaced storyline.

So, if I may, there are two parts to the AOD that are connected by the word "caused":

The abomination ................... causes.................. desolation.

What are your definitions of these two words..... thanks.

 

[IndianaRob]

Ok, I was hoping there might be a few more different interpretations.... there are certainly a few out there I believe. Unless I am not seeing them all, at least the top few interpretations, there maybe 3 to consider?

1) futurist view that predicts the war of all wars kind of thing... coming of a mythical (my opinion) anti-christ figure and all of this is within the unscriptural (my opinion) 7 year tribulation theory,

2) a preterist view that goes back to the time of AE when he placed a pig in the Temple and killed many Jews,

3) a 3rd view that connects with the destruction of everything in 70 AD.

As you can see, these are very, very different interpretations and they are supported by those scholars, academics and theologians from at least the past 300 years... So, you are all in good company but it does show just how complicated the Book of Daniel truly is! The good news is (for me) is that you just can't take your eyes off of Daniel - it is such a colorful, unbelievable and enigmatic book that covers over 2600 years with no extra words, letters, etc., and without any mistakes within the 12 chapters. And if our hands each had 6 fingers, they would all come together so perfectly as the 12 chapters, they would fit seamlessly and have one perfectly interlaced storyline.

So, if I may, there are two parts to the AOD that are connected by the word "caused":

The abomination ................... causes.................. desolation.

What are your definitions of these two words..... thanks.

The abomination that left Jerusalem desolate (the abomination of desolation) was the Jews murdering Jesus.

 

[tailgator]

Ok, I was hoping there might be a few more different interpretations.... there are certainly a few out there I believe. Unless I am not seeing them all, at least the top few interpretations, there maybe 3 to consider?

1) futurist view that predicts the war of all wars kind of thing... coming of a mythical (my opinion) anti-christ figure and all of this is within the unscriptural (my opinion) 7 year tribulation theory,

2) a preterist view that goes back to the time of AE when he placed a pig in the Temple and killed many Jews,

3) a 3rd view that connects with the destruction of everything in 70 AD.

As you can see, these are very, very different interpretations and they are supported by those scholars, academics and theologians from at least the past 300 years... So, you are all in good company but it does show just how complicated the Book of Daniel truly is! The good news is (for me) is that you just can't take your eyes off of Daniel - it is such a colorful, unbelievable and enigmatic book that covers over 2600 years with no extra words, letters, etc., and without any mistakes within the 12 chapters. And if our hands each had 6 fingers, they would all come together so perfectly as the 12 chapters, they would fit seamlessly and have one perfectly interlaced storyline.

So, if I may, there are two parts to the AOD that are connected by the word "caused":

The abomination ................... causes.................. desolation.

What are your definitions of these two words..... thanks.

Abomination is a really bad mojo.
Desolation is utter destruction.Without inhabitant.

Egypt is described as being desolate without inhabitant for 40 years.No foot of man or beast will pass through it.

Ezekiel 29
11 No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

12 And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.


Which leads us back to that old king of the north in Daniel when he goes forth to destroy and annihilate many.

Daniel 11:42
He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape.



Now I wonder what the king of the north could do to Egypt where no one would be able to live there for 40 years?

That some bad mojo.I bet Donald Trump could do it.Give it about 4 years.

 

[CTK]

Abomination is a really bad mojo.
Desolation is utter destruction.Without inhabitant.

Egypt is described as being desolate without inhabitant for 40 years.No foot of man or beast will pass through it.

Ezekiel 29
11 No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

12 And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.


Which leads us back to that old king of the north in Daniel when he goes forth to destroy and annihilate many.

Daniel 11:42
He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape.



Now I wonder what the king of the north could do to Egypt where no one would be able to live there for 40 years?

That some bad mojo.I bet Donald Trump could do it.Give it about 4 years.

Ok and thanks. This is a fourth interpretation that we can discuss.

 

[covenantee]

Ok, I was hoping there might be a few more different interpretations.... there are certainly a few out there I believe. Unless I am not seeing them all, at least the top few interpretations, there maybe 3 to consider?

1) futurist view that predicts the war of all wars kind of thing... coming of a mythical (my opinion) anti-christ figure and all of this is within the unscriptural (my opinion) 7 year tribulation theory,

2) a preterist view that goes back to the time of AE when he placed a pig in the Temple and killed many Jews,

3) a 3rd view that connects with the destruction of everything in 70 AD.

As you can see, these are very, very different interpretations and they are supported by those scholars, academics and theologians from at least the past 300 years... So, you are all in good company but it does show just how complicated the Book of Daniel truly is! The good news is (for me) is that you just can't take your eyes off of Daniel - it is such a colorful, unbelievable and enigmatic book that covers over 2600 years with no extra words, letters, etc., and without any mistakes within the 12 chapters. And if our hands each had 6 fingers, they would all come together so perfectly as the 12 chapters, they would fit seamlessly and have one perfectly interlaced storyline.

So, if I may, there are two parts to the AOD that are connected by the word "caused":

The abomination ................... causes.................. desolation.

What are your definitions of these two words..... thanks.

The Roman armies were an abomination to the monotheistic Jews because of the idolatrous ensigns which they worshiped and carried in battle.

The Roman armies brought desolation upon Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Adam Clarke:
The abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel - This abomination of desolation, St. Luke, (Luke 21:20, Luke 21:21), refers to the Roman army; and this abomination standing in the holy place is the Roman army besieging Jerusalem; this, our Lord says, is what was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, in the ninth and eleventh chapters of his prophecy; and so let every one who reads these prophecies understand them; and in reference to this very event they are understood by the rabbins. The Roman army is called an abomination, for its ensigns and images, which were so to the Jews. Josephus says, (War, b. vi. chap. 6), the Romans brought their ensigns into the temple, and placed them over against the eastern gate, and sacrificed to them there. The Roman army is therefore fitly called the abomination, and the abomination which maketh desolate, as it was to desolate and lay waste Jerusalem; and this army besieging Jerusalem is called by St. Mark, Mark 13:14, standing where it ought not, that is, as in the text here, the holy place; as not only the city, but a considerable compass of ground about it, was deemed holy, and consequently no profane persons should stand on it.

Albert Barnes:

"The abomination of desolation means the Roman army, and is so explained by Lu, xxi. 20. The Roman army is further called the abomination on account of the images of the emperor, and the eagles, carried in front of the legions, and regarded by the Romans with divine honours" (Matthew p. 254)

C.H. Spurgeon:

This portion of our Saviour's words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ's disciples saw �the abomination of desolation,� that is, the Roman ensigns, with their idolatries, �stand in the holy place,� they knew that the time for their escape had arrived; and they did flee to the mountains. (Matthew: The Gospel of the Kingdom. . p. 215).