When was the A.O.D fulfilled?

[Davy]

we see them both even in Dan 9

1. The people of the future prince will destroy the city and sanctuary (Luke 21)
2. He (this prince) will confirm a covenant with the many for one week. but in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, (Matt 24) Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.” The great tribulation spoken of By Jesus.

Its not rocket science, we just need to read.

Really though, that Daniel 9:26-27 Scripture must be understood via The Holy Spirit and the rest of The Bible, which is why many who simply read that one Scripture don't understand it.

The identity of the "he" in Daniel 9:27 has to be picked up from the previous Dan.9:26 verse about that "prince" which is about the Roman general Titus' army that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple in 70 A.D. The word 'prince' there in verse 26 is a word that means 'commander', so it's not referring to Lord Jesus. But the previous 25th verse does point to Christ because it uses the word "Messiah" (Anointed One) along with the "Prince" title, which is about Jesus' 1st coming. The KJV translators obviously understood this difference because they capitalized "Prince" in verse 25 about Christ, but not in verse 26 about the Roman general Titus.

Titus served as an "antichrist", and only as a type for the final Antichrist that is prophesied to come at the end of this world. This is why the next phrase after what that "prince" of verse 26 does, it goes into a metaphor about the 'end' with, "and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." When reading that phrase, one must ask what that mention of the 'end' being as a "flood" is about. That is where knowing one's Bible is required, because God used that 'flood' metaphor about how the "Assyrian" comes in like a flood. In Rev.12 Christ used that flood symbol about how water as a flood comes out of the mouth of the serpent after the symbolic 'woman' representing Christ's Church (the symbolic 'woman' of the last Rev.12 verse). And... God sometimes used the title of "the Assyrian" as a type pointing to Satan himself (see Isaiah 30:31-33).

Since many don't study all their Bible, they don't really understand that "flood" idea in Dan.9:26 is pointing to the very END of this world with the final Antichrist. Likewise, that "and unto the end of the war desolations are determined", they don't get it that is actually also about the time of the very 'end', with the war against the saints for the time of "great tribulation" just prior to Christ's future return. Those "desolations" actually point to the events of Christ's coming on the "day of the Lord" per Zechariah 14, and to the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul mentioned will happen on that day per 1 Thessalonians 5. Those who haven't studied enough instead just think that all happened in 70 A.D. by Titus.

 

[Zao is life]

The reason why it matters will help indicate the context of the prophecy. The disciples in Luke were looking at it from INSIDE the temple, the day before the Olivet would begin. Inside the temple is where their eyes would see the gifts and offerings.

Once they got to the Mount called Olivet, only 4 disciples came to Him and asked privately, Peter and James and John and Andrew. There were no poor widows. The people who came to see Him teach everyday in the temple were not there. No scribes, no Pharisees. No beautiful stones or offerings. Jesus had left the building.

"Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God.​

Where in the temple would we expect to find the "gifts dedicated to God"?

Outside the temple wall, or inside the temple wall?

Like in 2 Chronicles 3 where Solomon:

"He overlaid the inside with pure gold. He paneled the main hall with juniper and covered it with fine gold and decorated it with palm tree and chain designs. He adorned the temple with precious stones. And the gold he used was gold of Parvaim. He overlaid the ceiling beams, doorframes, walls and doors of the temple with gold, and he carved cherubim on the walls.​

And like Asa in 1 Kings 15, the sacred gifts are found inside, into the house of the Lord:

"Nevertheless, the heart of Asa was wholly true to the Lord all his days. And he brought into the house of the Lord the sacred gifts of his father and his own sacred gifts, silver, and gold, and vessels.​

When Jesus was "leaving the temple" and walking away at the start of Mathew 24, they could not see the adornment of beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. When they were leaving, they were looking at the outer structure.

All These Things

Jesus asked: “Do you not see all these things?

"Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”​

That was the end of another long day which was spent INSIDE the temple. For everyday He was teaching in the temple, but at night He lodged on the Mount called Olivet.

Once they made that familiar trip, down the temple mount, across the Kidron Valley, and up to the Mount called Olivet, the disciples must have been tired. They must have been ready for sleep time. But the seriousness of the subject sinks in with four of the disciples. They are wondering what was Jesus talking about? They are wondering was Jesus talking about something much more sinister than just the destruction of Jerusalem. Was Jesus talking about all the stones of the whole City of Jerusalem? Every stone, every building everywhere on earth? They must have recalled the OT prophecies of the earth utterly broken apart, the earth is split open, the earth is shaken violently, the earth sways to and fro like a drunkard. Was this what Jesus was talking about with saying there would not be left here one stone upon another?

When Jesus said: "all these things, could He have been talking about every man made building on the earth?

When Jesus said: there will not be left "here", does He mean every building here on the earth?

Four disciples came to Him privately and asked when shall these things be?

"And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?”​

When we are here after the thousand years are finished, the lost are going to be brought back to life. They are going to march across the broad plain of the earth. The earth will be turned into a "broad plain".

The earth will be turned into a "broad plain" because every island and mountain will have been moved out of it's place, and every man made wall will be thrown down when the earth staggers to and fro like a drunkard. There will not be left here, on the planet, one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.

All of Matthew 24, all of the Olivet discourse, is speaking about our modern days now. From WW1 and WW2, Israel becoming a nation again, and right up to and including the time we are living in now.

Peaceful Sabbath.

I agree with a great deal of what you say and have said the same in this thread and others about most of what you said.

Aside from pointing out that He was on the Temple Mount when He spoke about the destruction of the physical temple in Jerusalem, I've also tried to point out that in all three synoptic gospels the very first thing Jesus began to speak about after He sat down on the Mount of Olives was not the physical temple but the persecution and tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would endure, and this is in the context of talking about the end of the age and His return.

But though this is fact, it's no use. It's like trying to punch a paper nail through a brick wall. Good luck.

PS: The abomination of desolation that was placed in the holy place by A4E did not result in the destruction of the city or temple but Daniel 9:26 links the abominations of Daniel 9:27 to the destruction of both.

You're looking at a biblical type of an abomination that is coming when you read about the AoD in Daniel - the 1290 days in Daniel is linked to the taking away of the daily sacrifice - something that will not occur when the AoD of Matthew 24:15 appears. The holy place is not a physical temple anymore either - nor was the temple destroyed in 70 AD the holy place.

The veil in that sanctuary was torn between 37 and 40 years before 70 AD. The word used for the temple structure in Jerusalem is hieron. It contained the naos - the sanctuary. The verses talking about Jesus in the temple all use the word hieron - the Lord was not a priest in terms of Mosaic law and was not allowed into the holy place (naos), but the verses where it records Him referring to His body as the temple use the word naos.

The verses telling of the tearing of the veil use the word naos. That's the last time the word naos is used in reference to any part of the temple in Jerusalem. After that it's only used in reference to:

Acts 7:48a
But, the Most High does not dwell in a temple sanctuary (Greek: naos) made with (human) hands.

-- the church & the temple in heaven --
(word used: naós)​

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:1-2; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22

Notice 2 Thessalonians 2:4 because Paul used the word hieron the one time he referred to the temple in Jerusalem (which is the word used multiple times in Acts in reference to the temple in Jerusalem)

but Paul only used the word naos in reference to the church. So if he was referring to a physical temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 he would not have used the word naos. But he did use the word naos.

Naos is the word refers to the actual sanctuary of God. In the gospels is used in reference to the sanctuary (naos) in the temple (hieron) in Jerusalem only until the verses telling us about the tearing of the veil - and never again after that.

Revelation calls New Jerusalem the holy city three times. The other cities are Babylon the Great, the city spiritually called Sodom and Egypt, and the cities of the nations that fell when the 7th bowl is poured out.

Revelation 11:1-2 is talking about the holy city and the naos.

The AoD will appear in the naos. It's the antitype of the idol A4E placed in the temple in Jerusalem that did not result in the destruction of either the temple or the city - unlike the abominations mentioned in Luke 9:27 which are linked to the destruction of temple and city in Luke 9:26.

The 1290 days you mention are linked to a taking away of the daily sacrifice. It was a type. It's not the thing that's still coming - but that prophecy fits both that idol and the coming one, and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Matthew 24:15. It will not cause the destruction of the sanctuary of God but the sanctuary will be defiled:

"And what agreement does a temple [naós] of God have with idols? For you are the temple [naós] of the living God, as God has said, "I will dwell in them and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." 2 Corinthians 6:16.

"Do you not know that you are a temple [naós] of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If anyone defiles the temple [naós] of God, God shall destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which you are." -- 1 Corinthians 3:16-17.

"Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For the Day of Christ shall not come unless there first comes the apostasy, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple [naós] of God, setting himself forth, that he is God." -- 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

It's the abomination of desolation.

 

[Douggg]

I am still very sure that the Abomination of desolation spoken of by the Prophet Daniel, from Matthew 24 and Mark 13, (Let The Reader Understand), has to do with the second coming. And it's happening now, we are in the days of the Abomination now.

Dave, go here and read through my post #384. I addressed the abomination of desolation, and the 1290 days and the 1335 days of Daniel 12, as I walk through the 7 years. It is a fairly short, brief walk through.

The Prophetic Timeline: Why Jesuit Futurists/Jesuit Preterists Ignore It

The two verses, Rev. 17:10-11 are two different thoughts,. 17:10 is about the 7 kingdoms of the 3 beast kingDOMS, shown in Daniel: 1- Babylon 1- Medio-Persia 1- Grecian- Alex the Great 4- Grecian- four generals. Totalling to 7 kingdoms. The sixth king was ruling at the time of John. So the...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Zao is life]

Even if they did have time to build another temple, would that make it a "holy place"?

No, it wouldn't

I'm sure it's not going down the way of a rebuilt temple. But like I say, I could be wrong.

Peaceful Sabbath.

I agree with the above. Nice and refreshing seeing someone mention some of the exact same things I've also mentioned.

"When shall these things be?" the disciples asked Him on the Mount of Olives.

is there any evidence in Acts or the epistles or even the Revelation or at the close of the gospels that the disciples knew either when the temple in Jerusalem would be destroyed or when Christ would return?

How do we know Jesus did not answer that question? Aside from the above, we know because in all three synoptic gospels the first thing Jesus launched into talking about after arriving on the Mount of Olives was a discourse about the persecution and tribulation that the living stones of the New Testament Temple would experience - in the context of talking about the end of the age and His return.

 

[IndianaRob]

Many claim the abomination of desolation (AOD)spoken of by Daniel and Jesus has not been fulfilled yet, and another Temple needs to be rebuilt in the future in Jerusalem in order to fulfill this prophecy.

The easiest way I have found to prove this doctrine is false is by Jesus’ own words. Below both Jesus and the apostles, were speaking of the Temple and buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes."

The words of God confirm this truth.....
Mark 13:1-413 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, seewhat manner of stones and what buildings are here!
2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

So Jesus was telling them about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes."
Notice in Mark's account above there is only one question asked about when shall these buildings be destroyed, and what sign would there be prior to this event, concerning the abomination of desolation.
But in Matthew's account pay attention to the question and the prophecy, as 2 separate questionsare asked of Jesus.

Matthew 24:1-3
24 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

So in Matthews account not only was Jesus asked about the destruction of the Temple they were looking at "with their own eyes", but also about the signs of Christ’s second coming and also about the end of the world.

Now to Luke's account…..

Luke 21:5-7

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but whenshall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Again notice they are speaking of the Temple and buildings they are looking at "with their own eyes." And so Jesus tells them "the signs" given before the temple is to be destroyed….

Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” ( This is the abomination of desolation event spoken of in Daniel)

This event concerning the destruction of the cityof Jerusalem that Jesus and the apostles were looking at "with their own eyes "is also confirmed by Jesus in
Luke 19:41-44 “And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it. Saying, If thou hast known, even thou, at least in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.”

So the common mistake here is to think that the abomination of desolation concerning the destruction of the Temple is yet future, and has anything to do with the second coming of Christ and the end of the world almost 2 thousand years later.
But when you understand the questions asked of Jesus was in two parts, then hopefully you will see these 2 events are separate from one another and are many, many years apart. Also the time line concerning "when" the AOD was fulfilled has nothing to do with the timeline 70 week prophecy in Daniel.

The end of the 70 week prophecy, and the fulfilling of the AOD prophecy are about 40 years apart from one another.
And it is also very clear in all accounts given in Matthew, Mark, and Luke that Jesus and the apostles were talking about the Temple and surrounding buildings they were looking at "with their own eyes".

There is no need for a future Temple to be built to fulfill this AOD prophecy, as it has already been fulfilled in 70 a.d. when the Roman army surrounded, and then destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. Both the words of Jesus and history prove this to be true. With the abomination of desolation events already being fulfilled, we can now focus on the events leading up to Christ's second coming, and on the signs concerning the end of this world.

Prove all things by the words of God. Peace and God bless

Why wouldn't the abomination of desolation be the murder of Jesus? Jesus literally said that he would desolate Jerusalem for murdering the prophets with Jesus being The Prophet murdered by the Jews.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Why wouldn't the abomination of desolation be the murder of Jesus? Jesus literally said that he would desolate Jerusalem for murdering the prophets with Jesus being The Prophet murdered by the Jews.

It was all the abominations of the people that brought on the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The destruction coming upon the earth will be for the same reason, “for the overspreading of abominations”

 

[IndianaRob]

It was all the abominations of the people that brought on the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem.

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The destruction coming upon the earth will be for the same reason, “for the overspreading of abominations”

What is the abomination that stands in the holy place?

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

What is the abomination that stands in the holy place?

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

This is speaking of the same event…

Luke 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

 

[strepho]

And that proves it?

Who do i trust. The historians who were their and witnessed it, or you?

So you listen to men? And so I should listen to you? I listened to a man for many years also. And trusted him with everything, only to find he was wrong in some areas.. I don’t hold it against him

Well, your not.

Ok with me too.. But discuss don;t speak as fact..

Sir. Many shepherds don't have holy spirit. They don't understand deep truth of God's word.

Isaiah chapter 29 talks about the shepherds ,and leaders. They have spirt of stupor.

Those with spirit of stupor don't understand seals and trumps of revelation, or old testament.

They go to seminary schools. And think thier equipped to teach God's word.

Matthew chapter 24:,2

Truly, I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another, every one will be thrown down.

Sir. Wailing wall of old Jerusalem is still there. That temple was built by nehemiah and scribe Ezra.

Ezra chapter 3:7 to 3:18

REBUILDING THE TEMPLE.

Nehemiah played part in building the temple.

King of Persia appointed Nehemiah as governor.

Nehemiah chapter 1 to chapter 7

REBUILDING the wall of Jerusalem.

Titus didn't destroy all of it in 70 ad.

Wailing wall is still there.

At the 7th trump.

Jesus will turn the current temple into ashes and the wailing wall.

Ezekiel chapter 43.

Jesus will establish new temple during the millennium.

And anyone who has the holy spirit, will never go against God's truth !

There are many false preachers who don't have holy spirit. They are servants of satan.

Teaching false doctrine. Lying to people.

1 Timothy chapter 4

Now the spirit speaks expressly that in latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devil's.

Fake shepherds who don't have holy spirit.
They serve satan. Lying to people.

2 Corinthians chapter 13:8

For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

Man of God or woman of God, will tell you the truth. They wont go against the holy spirit.

Only satan's ministers will lie to people. They don't have holy spirit.

I moved on to other subjects.
Peace.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Anyone that is arguing that 70 AD is meant by Matthew 24:21, that is basically what they are arguing. Which then contradicts what Jesus said in that verse and it contradicts reality, when even WW1 and WW2 were greater in scale than 70 AD. How you have not heard that interpretation before, puzzles me? I don't interpret that verse in that manner, but some of those you are debating in here, such as @covenantee and @Spiritual Israelite, certainly do if they are applying that verse to 70 AD.

What can be of greater scale than a flood that killed all but 8 people on the earth? You are very clearly taking Matthew 24:21 out of context. You are interpreting a verse that relates to tribulation in Judea to be talking about global tribulaton. That is nonsense.

You see both a local and global tribulation described in Luke 21. So, why not Matthew 24 and Mark 13, also? I'll tell you why not. It's because of doctrinal bias. Your doctrine requires the abomination of desolation to occur in the future rather than in the past. That is the only reason you inexplicably don't see Luke 21:20-24a as a parallel passage to Matthew 24:15-21 (and Mark 13:14-19). That is the only reason you inexplicably believe that both Matthew and Mark did not record Jesus's answer to the disciples' first question.

 

[IndianaRob]

I don’t think there will ever be greater tribulation on this planet than what God did when Jesus was murdered.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Really though, that Daniel 9:26-27 Scripture must be understood via The Holy Spirit and the rest of The Bible, which is why many who simply read that one Scripture don't understand it.

The identity of the "he" in Daniel 9:27 has to be picked up from the previous Dan.9:26 verse about that "prince" which is about the Roman general Titus' army that destroyed Jerusalem and the 2nd temple in 70 A.D. The word 'prince' there in verse 26 is a word that means 'commander', so it's not referring to Lord Jesus. But the previous 25th verse does point to Christ because it uses the word "Messiah" (Anointed One) along with the "Prince" title, which is about Jesus' 1st coming. The KJV translators obviously understood this difference because they capitalized "Prince" in verse 25 about Christ, but not in verse 26 about the Roman general Titus.

Nonsense. The Greek word translated as "prince" in verse 26 (nāḡîḏ) is the same Greek word translated as "Prince" in verse 25. So, your comment that the word means commander in verse 26 and it can't refer to Jesus makes no sense since the same word is used to describe the Messiah in verse 25. This really shows your doctrinal bias.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t think there will ever be greater tribulation on this planet than what God did when Jesus was murdered.

There is a sense in which this is true, which shows that we have to discern what the context is of Matthew 24:21. Is it talking about a tribulation greater in scope than any other before? Or is it talking about tribulation in a local place or a city like Jerusalem unlike anything before or since?

It simply refers to a time of tribulation unlike anything before or since, and it doesn't say it has to be greater in scope than anything before or since. If it was meant to be understood as tribulation greater in scope than anything before or since than how can it be greater in scope than the flood in Noah's day when only 8 people in the world survived? It can't mean that. So, it has to be unlike any other tribulation in some other sense than that. And what happened in 70 AD in Judea and Jerusalem was unlike anything that had ever happened before or since. It involved the complete destruction of a city by armies. The entire city of Jerusalem was burned to the ground by the Roman armies with no stone left upon another, just as Jesus prophesied (Luke 19:41-44). Nothing like that had ever happened before or since.

 

[IndianaRob]

There is a sense in which this is true, which shows that we have to discern what the context is of Matthew 24:21. Is it talking about a tribulation greater in scope than any other before? Or is it talking about tribulation in a local place or a city like Jerusalem unlike anything before or since?

It simply refers to a time of tribulation unlike anything before or since, and it doesn't say it has to be greater in scope than anything before or since. If it was meant to be understood as tribulation greater in scope than anything before or since than how can it be greater in scope than the flood in Noah's day when only 8 people in the world survived? It can't mean that. So, it has to be unlike any other tribulation in some other sense than that. And what happened in 70 AD in Judea and Jerusalem was unlike anything that had ever happened before or since. It involved the complete destruction of a city by armies. The entire city of Jerusalem was burned to the ground by the Roman armies with no stone left upon another, just as Jesus prophesied (Luke 19:41-44). Nothing like that had ever happened before or

I'm going from the prophesies in Psalm 18 and 2 Samuel 22.

I can't imagine that Jesus was not pointing to this prophecy when he told them to head for the hills immediately when they saw the abomination "stand in the holy place".

In addition to whats given in 2 Samuel, Ezekiel's "dry bones" were unearthed and 3 days later they stood up and walked the streets of Jerusalem. I think AD 70 pales in comparison to this.

2 Samuel
Chapter 22

5 When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid;
6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
7 In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears.
8 Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth.
9 There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.
11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.
13 Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled.
14 The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
15 And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.
16 And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
17 He sent from above, he took me; he drew me out of many waters;

 

[grafted branch]

I don’t think there will ever be greater tribulation on this planet than what God did when Jesus was murdered.

What about the Daniel 12:1-2 “time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time”? There was a resurrection associated with this time of trouble, wouldn’t this then make the events at the cross the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6?

 

[tailgator]

I don’t think there will ever be greater tribulation on this planet than what God did when Jesus was murdered.

God doesn't place the abomination of desolation

The armed forces of the north do.Imagine Hiroshima on a much larger scale.

And yes,The atom bomb being dropped on Hiroshima was far greater tribulation than Christ offering himself for the sins of the world.
I understand it would have been very painful for Jesus but you also have to take into account 100,000 people being burned to death.

 

[tailgator]

The abomination that causes desolation resembles a great lake of fire to me departing as a scroll being rolled together.

 

[IndianaRob]

What about the Daniel 12:1-2 “time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time”? There was a resurrection associated with this time of trouble, wouldn’t this then make the events at the cross the first resurrection in Revelation 20:6?

In my opinion the bible teaches only 2 resurrections, the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. In Daniel 12:2 MANY but not all of the dead were raised some to everlasting life and some to ever lasting shame and contempt.

Daniel
Chapter 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew
Chapter 27
50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Compare Daniel 12:2 to the language of Matthew 27 50-53. The exact same language is given MANY but not ALL. The reason many and not all were raised is because the resurrection has nothing to do with the raising of dead earthly bodies but it is the raising of the soul from death to eternal life. 1 Corinthians lays out "what" gets raised in the resurrection and it is not dead earthly bodies.

It just so happened (not really, God planned it that way) that the resurrection took place at a time when MANY but not all dead bodies were raised up in judgement against the unbelieving Jews.

 

[IndianaRob]

God doesn't place the abomination of desolation

The armed forces of the north do.Imagine Hiroshima on a much larger scale.

And yes,The atom bomb being dropped on Hiroshima was far greater tribulation than Christ offering himself for the sins of the world.
I understand it would have been very painful for Jesus but you also have to take into account 100,000 people being burned to death.

I believe the Roman soldiers placed the abomination that made Jerusalem desolate. Not that Jesus was an abomination but the murder of Jesus was the abomination.

 

[grafted branch]

In my opinion the bible teaches only 2 resurrections, the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the unjust. In Daniel 12:2 MANY but not all of the dead were raised some to everlasting life and some to ever lasting shame and contempt.

Daniel
Chapter 12
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew
Chapter 27
50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Compare Daniel 12:2 to the language of Matthew 27 50-53. The exact same language is given MANY but not ALL. The reason many and not all were raised is because the resurrection has nothing to do with the raising of dead earthly bodies but it is the raising of the soul from death to eternal life. 1 Corinthians lays out "what" gets raised in the resurrection and it is not dead earthly bodies.

It just so happened (not really, God planned it that way) that the resurrection took place at a time when MANY but not all dead bodies were raised up in judgement against the unbelieving Jews.

Ok, I do agree with you on this but I think they were bodily raised in Matthew 27:52-53.

Do you also place Michael standing up in Daniel 12:1 with Revelation 12:7 where Michael and his angels fight the dragon in heaven?