When the saints are overcome

[grafted branch]

It's only a defeat from the enemy's perspective. It's temporary.

Where else in the scriptures do you interpret verses from the enemy’s perspective? You haven’t given any other examples of this.

In Matthew 25:1-13 is the parable of the ten virgins. Let’s say I interpret this from the enemy’s perspective and call the wise virgins wise in the ways of the world and the foolish virgins as being foolish because they believe in Jesus.

I can then come to the conclusion that wise virgins went with the first bridegroom which was really the Antichrist while the foolish virgins went back and read the Bible to get more oil.

Do you see how twisted the Bible becomes when you accept the idea that we need to read the Bible from both the enemy’s perspective and a believers perspective? That is a major, major compromise you’re making, and all for an attempt to hold a premil view.

 

[grafted branch]

To be overcome in the Rev 13 sense is to be Christian and MURDERED. Denying what the Greek manuscripts says will happen is not a valid position to take. The saints WILL BE OVERCOME because God says so.

Right, the saints are overcome because the scriptures say so. But you are denying other scriptures in order to place that overcoming event in the future. We don’t have to accept a personal defeated status when currently nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Romans 8:35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you really hear yourself? You have to say believers need to look at being persecuted as being defeated instead of being more than conquerors and that physical death defeats believers. What are you going to put on your tombstone, “here lies ewq1938 a defeated Christian”?

You are promoting defeatism, give up defeated Premil and come join the rest of us that are victorious. As the song say we are more than conquerors, not we are all defeated.

 

[Marvelloustime]

It as are many govts of the world are under the influence of anti christ leading all to the beast to be as one
under what they all believe is GOD and is LOVE . Remember when i told ya intefaith is of anti christ , of satan .
BELIEVE IT . get in the bible NOW .

@amigo de christo

 

[IronMaiden]

Revelation 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.



So how is the beast overcoming the saints? Before the cross they went to Sheol, so I can see how that could be considered as being overcome but now to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

I would think a believer would count it as an honor to give up their life as a testimony to their faith and in Philippians 1:20 Paul says Christ shall be magnified in his body whether by life or death.

How can the beast overcome a saint if he can’t overcome them by physically killing them?

We might get beaten or even killed but in the end, we’ll have eternal life!
Mark 13 tells us:
Mark 13:9-13 (NKJV) 9 “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 “And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 “But when they arrest [you] and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 “Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father [his] child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

The Antichrist (Satan) will come after the woman’s remnant:
Revelation 12:17 (NKJV) And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And here in Luke 21:
Luke 21:10-19 (NKJV) 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls.

 

[amigo de christo]

We might get beaten or even killed but in the end, we’ll have eternal life!
Mark 13 tells us:
Mark 13:9-13 (NKJV) 9 “But watch out for yourselves, for they will deliver you up to councils, and you will be beaten in the synagogues. You will be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony to them. 10 “And the gospel must first be preached to all the nations. 11 “But when they arrest [you] and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12 “Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father [his] child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

The Antichrist (Satan) will come after the woman’s remnant:
Revelation 12:17 (NKJV) And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And here in Luke 21:
Luke 21:10-19 (NKJV) 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls.

this life is but a vapor my friend . ALL that matters is eternal life forever with the LORD .
This world can do as it feels it has to do , they cannot silence the mouth of a lamb . The cost gonna be the cost .
But what is the worst thing man can do , i mean all they can do is kill the body . A lamb goes home
at the end of its faith . HOME to THE KING WHO saved and kept them .
Just the other day i was talking to a few real old timers . one was eighty six
the other eighty nine . The man is truly withering away now . Age cometh .
But man did he have a smile on his face when i reminded him this life is but a vapor , WE GOTTA A REAL GOOD
HOME at our end . THANKS BE TO GOD AND HIS CHRIST . The old mans eyes even lit up
like the eyes of a fat kid in a candy store . THEY KNOW my friend . Those whose faith be in CHRIST
they KNOW what cometh at the end of our life . So man gonna do as man gonna do
and not matter what GOD allows to come against us , THE LORD IS WITH US THROUGH it all .
Be faithful unto death . THE KING is worthy of all honor , praise and thanksgiving . ALL HELLS
gonna break forth in these last hours against the few lambs who did not conform .
BUT it cannot pluck us from HIS hand . No matter what shall come against us , THE LORD WILL be with us
and HE be our hope , our salvation and our strength . But reader be warned , many gonna bleed for JESUS
in these last hours . Fear not death or to suffer for CHRIST
and never conform to satans all inclusive interfaith anti christ lie . far worse a punishment awaits all who did .

 

[IronMaiden]

this life is but a vapor my friend . ALL that matters is eternal life forever with the LORD .
This world can do as it feels it has to do , they cannot silence the mouth of a lamb . The cost gonna be the cost .
But what is the worst thing man can do , i mean all they can do is kill the body . A lamb goes home
at the end of its faith . HOME to THE KING WHO saved and kept them .
Just the other day i was talking to a few real old timers . one was eighty six
the other eighty nine . The man is truly withering away now . Age cometh .
But man did he have a smile on his face when i reminded him this life is but a vapor , WE GOTTA A REAL GOOD
HOME at our end . THANKS BE TO GOD AND HIS CHRIST . The old mans eyes even lit up
like the eyes of a fat kid in a candy store . THEY KNOW my friend . Those whose faith be in CHRIST
they KNOW what cometh at the end of our life . So man gonna do as man gonna do
and not matter what GOD allows to come against us , THE LORD IS WITH US THROUGH it all .

HalleluYAH!!!
and look here…
Revelation 3:12 (NKJV) “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

 

[amigo de christo]

HalleluYAH!!!
and look here…
Revelation 3:12 (NKJV) “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

How much worse a punishement for those who TROD CHRIST UNDER FOOT for a fat interfaith lie .
If even under the law by two or three witnesses a man could be put to death
HOW MUCH WORSE for those who trod CHRIST under foot .
and for this reason shall GOD send strong delusion to believe a lie and be damned .
MANY are rejecting the love of the truth whereby they can be saved
and many sure seem to be headed right into a broad path love they think is of GOD
and has made it unnecessary to have to believe ON JESUS the CHRIST .
and boy are many now buying that lie . IT has come to merge the decieved and all
who rejected the love of the truth , THE BELEIVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST GOSPEL , wherebythey could have been saved .
IT LEADS THE DECIEVED to merge as one under what all think is OF GOD and IS HIS LOVE .
ONLY it aint GOD and it sure aint HIS LOVE . IT DENIES THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
and has sold a sin accepting UNBELIEF accepting fat LIE to merge them as one under ANTI CHRIST . they thinks its of GOD
but its of the DEVIL . I NEVER SEEN such a thing grow so fast and specially as of late .
AND THEY ALL THINK its gonna bring them WORLD PEACE N SAFETY .
and now a word . FOR when they shall say peace n safety , IT DONT SAY THEY GET IT
it says SUDDEN destructoin cometh upon them all . ITS ALL COMING TO PASS jus as it was foretold
hundreds and even thousands of years ago . IN A BOOK most now shun and mock .

 

[Marvelloustime]

this life is but a vapor my friend . ALL that matters is eternal life forever with the LORD .
This world can do as it feels it has to do , they cannot silence the mouth of a lamb . The cost gonna be the cost .
But what is the worst thing man can do , i mean all they can do is kill the body . A lamb goes home
at the end of its faith . HOME to THE KING WHO saved and kept them .
Just the other day i was talking to a few real old timers . one was eighty six
the other eighty nine . The man is truly withering away now . Age cometh .
But man did he have a smile on his face when i reminded him this life is but a vapor , WE GOTTA A REAL GOOD
HOME at our end . THANKS BE TO GOD AND HIS CHRIST . The old mans eyes even lit up
like the eyes of a fat kid in a candy store . THEY KNOW my friend . Those whose faith be in CHRIST
they KNOW what cometh at the end of our life . So man gonna do as man gonna do
and not matter what GOD allows to come against us , THE LORD IS WITH US THROUGH it all .
Be faithful unto death . THE KING is worthy of all honor , praise and thanksgiving . ALL HELLS
gonna break forth in these last hours against the few lambs who did not conform .
BUT it cannot pluck us from HIS hand . No matter what shall come against us , THE LORD WILL be with us
and HE be our hope , our salvation and our strength . But reader be warned , many gonna bleed for JESUS
in these last hours . Fear not death or to suffer for CHRIST
and never conform to satans all inclusive interfaith anti christ lie . far worse a punishment awaits all who did .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 54274

EVEN SO , COME LORD JESUS . this old earth and old heavens is not HOME .
THE KING SITS OVER OUR HOME . and man do i look forward to the new heavens and new earth forever WITH THE LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

HalleluYAH!!!
and look here…
Revelation 3:12 (NKJV) “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

 

[Marvelloustime]

How much worse a punishement for those who TROD CHRIST UNDER FOOT for a fat interfaith lie .
If even under the law by two or three witnesses a man could be put to death
HOW MUCH WORSE for those who trod CHRIST under foot .
and for this reason shall GOD send strong delusion to believe a lie and be damned .
MANY are rejecting the love of the truth whereby they can be saved
and many sure seem to be headed right into a broad path love they think is of GOD
and has made it unnecessary to have to believe ON JESUS the CHRIST .
and boy are many now buying that lie . IT has come to merge the decieved and all
who rejected the love of the truth , THE BELEIVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST GOSPEL , wherebythey could have been saved .
IT LEADS THE DECIEVED to merge as one under what all think is OF GOD and IS HIS LOVE .
ONLY it aint GOD and it sure aint HIS LOVE . IT DENIES THE DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST
and has sold a sin accepting UNBELIEF accepting fat LIE to merge them as one under ANTI CHRIST . they thinks its of GOD
but its of the DEVIL . I NEVER SEEN such a thing grow so fast and specially as of late .
AND THEY ALL THINK its gonna bring them WORLD PEACE N SAFETY .
and now a word . FOR when they shall say peace n safety , IT DONT SAY THEY GET IT
it says SUDDEN destructoin cometh upon them all . ITS ALL COMING TO PASS jus as it was foretold
hundreds and even thousands of years ago . IN A BOOK most now shun and mock .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

EVEN SO , COME LORD JESUS . this old earth and old heavens is not HOME .
THE KING SITS OVER OUR HOME . and man do i look forward to the new heavens and new earth forever WITH THE LORD .

Oh so do I. Cannot wait to get out this hole of a life.

 

[amigo de christo]

HalleluYAH!!!
and look here…
Revelation 3:12 (NKJV) “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

Reader and all take note . NEW JERSUALEM . HEAVENLY JERUSALEM
MOUNT ZION . The CITY OF THE LORD .
Wherein the beleivers OF CHRIST JESUS shall forever be .
Earthen Jerusalem is still in bondage with her children .
He or she , whether jew or gentile WHO DENIES GOD will be damned .
Reader and all beware , IF ONE DENIES JESUS THE CHRIST , THEY HAVE DENIED GOD . a little fact
IT SEEMS MOST no longer want to believe .
SO allow me to post some of johns own words .
HE who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON , calls GOD HIMSELF A LIAR .
a LIAR . watch out for interfaith for it is leading and will lead all to the LIE .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Reader and all take note . NEW JERSUALEM . HEAVENLY JERUSALEM
MOUNT ZION . The CITY OF THE LORD .
Wherein the beleivers OF CHRIST JESUS shall forever be .
Earthen Jerusalem is still in bondage with her children .
He or she , whether jew or gentile WHO DENIES GOD will be damned .
Reader and all beware , IF ONE DENIES JESUS THE CHRIST , THEY HAVE DENIED GOD . a little fact
IT SEEMS MOST no longer want to believe .
SO allow me to post some of johns own words .
HE who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of HIS SON , calls GOD HIMSELF A LIAR .
a LIAR . watch out for interfaith for it is leading and will lead all to the LIE .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

Oh so do I. Cannot wait to get out this hole of a life.

Till we depart , ONWARD in them trenches sister .
THERE is only ONE reason a beleiver remains , TO POINT TO JESUS and exhort one another with all his lovely truth .
Till we depart , WHICH i invite all to take a peek at the signs of the times , March onwards in the LORD
never compromising a word of TRUTH . Interfaith is the SONG OF THE WHORE
whose father is the devil and it is of anti christ who by peace shall destroy many .
This so called interfaith they believe gonna usher in peace in the middle east and the world
GONNA usher something in all right and it wont be peace either , IT BE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION from above
BY THE GOD and CHRIST THEY DENIED to attain this so called peace .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Till we depart , ONWARD in them trenches sister .
THERE is only ONE reason a beleiver remains , TO POINT TO JESUS and exhort one another with all his lovely truth .
Till we depart , WHICH i invite all to take a peek at the signs of the times , March onwards in the LORD
never compromising a word of TRUTH . Interfaith is the SONG OF THE WHORE
whose father is the devil and it is of anti christ who by peace shall destroy many .
This so called interfaith they believe gonna usher in peace in the middle east and the world
GONNA usher something in all right and it wont be peace either , IT BE SUDDEN DESTRUCTION from above
BY THE GOD and CHRIST THEY DENIED to attain this so called peace .

@amigo de christo

 

[amigo de christo]

HalleluYAH!!!
and look here…
Revelation 3:12 (NKJV) “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And [I will write on him] My new name.

Onward in the trenches . the call has been made . ITs all out war for the souls of men .
And interfaith will grave all and save none . JESUS SAVES . TIME to preach that NAME to all .

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That has nothing to do with Premil. There are some Premils that believe only OSAS is Biblical and that NOSAS isn't. And there are some Premils that believe both are Biblical. The same is true of Amils and probably Preterists as well. NOSAS has zero to do with Eschatology positions. But I will say this, though. It makes zero sense that one can be Amil while agreeing that NOSAS is Biblical since NOSAS contradicts Amil's interpretation of the first resurrection.

LOL! First, you said "NOSAS has zero to do with Eschatology positions" and then you contradicted yourself by implying that one can't be both NOSAS and Amil, which would mean that NOSAS can have something to do with Eschatology positions in that case.

Yet there are some that insist both Amil and NOSAS are Biblical. Except it is impossible that once someone has part in the first resurrection that they can somehow lose part in, thus be cast into the LOF instead. That's exactly what Amil and NOSAS teach.

It's only YOU who says that one can't have part in the first resurrection and later lose part in it. But, you try to force YOUR understanding of the first resurrection onto Amil, which is ridiculous and unfair. We don't claim that the first resurrection is the mass bodily resurrection of believers that will occur when Christ returns, so there's no reason to think that someone can't lose part in the first resurrection based on how WE understand that. In my view, when someone initially has part in the first resurrection, it is exactly the SAME event as being born again/saved.

So, when looking at it that way, if someone can lose their salvation, then they can also lose their part in the first resurrection. For you to say that can't be the case is ludicrous because you don't take into account how Amils understand what it means to have part in the first resurrection. You only take into account your own understanding of what that means. Of course NOSAS wouldn't be possible if having part in the first resurrection had to do with being bodily resurrected, but that isn't how Amils understand it.

But anyone reading Revelation 20:6 can plainly see that once anyone has part in the first resurrection they never lose part in it.

Oh, really? And what is that based on? What if someone said something similar about John 3:16? What if someone said that anyone reading John 3:16 can plainly see that anyone who believes in Jesus can never perish and will for certain have eternal life? That isn't what you believe, but if you read that verse similarly to how you read Revelation 20:6, then that is what you would have to conclude. So, why don't you read a verse like John 3:16 in a similar way that you read Revelation 20:6? Where is the consistency in your approach to scripture? It's not there and never has been.

Yet NOSAS is Biblical. It presents no problem for Premil because the first resurrection isn't meaning a spiritual resurrection that takes place millions of times per this age, it is a bodily resurrection that only takes place when Christ returns.

NOSAS presents no problem for Amil, either, when you actually take into account how Amil understands what it means to have part in the first resurrection. Which you don't. You don't even attempt to look at it from the Amil perspective, so you end up falsely thinking that NOSAS and Amil aren't compatible. But, they are.

Obviously, once someone puts on bodily immortality when Christ returns, thus the first resurrection, they can't then lose that resurrection somehow.

Of course! No Amil would say otherwise. However, Amils don't believe putting on bodily immortality when Christ returns has anything to do with having part in the first resurrection. Can you understand that? So, you can't force your own understanding of having part in the first resurrection on Amil and then declare what is or isn't possible to be true along with Amil. That isn't fair. You need to look at how we understand the meaning of having part in the first resurrection and then look at whether it is possible from OUR Amil perspective (not YOUR premil perspective) for NOSAS to be true. But, you never do that.

Per Amil they can since Amil interprets the first resurrection to be involving initially being saved. NOSAS means to lose one's salvation.

Per Premil anyone that falls away, thus NOSAS, are then never part of the first resurruction to begin with. Therefore, they obviously can't lose part in the first resurrection because they already fell away before the first resurrection even occurs. Per Amil though, they already have part in the first resurrection before they fall away, thus if they fall away they lose having part in the first resurrection. Which then contradicts Revelation 20:6 since not one person who has part in the first resurrection is going to end up in the LOF instead. But that is what Amil and NOSAS teaches. If Amil was the correct position every single Amil would be of the OSAS camp and that NOSAS would not be Biblical. Except NOSAS is Biblical. So even if every single Amil were of the OSAS camp it still wouldn't make that the correct position since NOSAS is Biblical. IOW, NOSAS and Amil are not compatible with each other. Only OSAS and Amil are compatible with each other, except NOSAS is Biblical which then throws a monkey wrench into it, so to speak.

LOL. Total nonsense, as everyone here can see except you. You are either unable or unwilling to try to look at things from the Amil perspective, so you end up making false claims about Amil frequently.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Where in the Bible are believers considered to be overcome by a physical act?

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

This verse, which relates to the two witnesses, clearly associate being overcome with being physically killed. Surely, it's not talking about the two witnesses being spiritually overcome, right? This is how Revelation 13:7 should be understood as well. It's about physical persecution. You are aware that many Christians have been physically persecuted over the past almost 2,000 years, aren't you?

 

[amigo de christo]

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

This verse, which relates to the two witnesses, clearly associate being overcome with being physically killed. Surely, it's not talking about the two witnesses being spiritually overcome, right? This is how Revelation 13:7 should be understood as well. It's about physical persecution. You are aware that many Christians have been physically persecuted over the past almost 2,000 years, aren't you?

THE WHORE HAS POURED HERCUP unto all false religoins and unto christendom .
ALL not in the lambs book of life GONNA DRINK that cup and merge under what they believe is GOD and LOVE .
That will result in the greatest hour of all out tribulation to come against the saints who DID NOT bend the knee
who did not conform , but who by The grace of GOD given them IN CHRIST stood faithful unto GOD unto HIS CHRIST .
What i wrote cannot be stopped , IT has began . It has been at work for a long long time
and now in the end has come to gather all into the darkest hour of rebellion against GOD , CHRIST and the saints .
Tribulations have been , but this one will be the greatest of all and in a short time much blood of the faithful
will have been spilled unto the ground by the FATHER OF LIES whom cain served and who all serve
WHO KNOW NOT and REJECT CHRIST . INTERFAITH IS THE SPAWN OF SATAN and i plan to expose it till my last breath
no matter the cost to me for doing so .