When does the judgment happen?

[Hobie]

..for the Believers and for the Wicked.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

So when does this judgment happen?

 

[Hobie]

Now take into account that the Bible speaks of a Judgment for the Believers as they lay claim to be worthy to be redeemed by Christ at His Second Coming.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God ?

Now we see again that the Bible speaks about a Judgment Day......

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

And we see where God sets up a courtroom for judgement that is described in both Daniel and Revelation..

Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice that the book life and books are mentioned as being used, its the same judgement event. But this cannot be for the saints as they have already been judged as Christ clearly lays out..

Matthew 25:33
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

So the house of God, the saints, are judged before they "inherit the kingdom prepared for you". And we see it says that "judgment was given to the saints of the most High" in Daniel before "the saints possessed the kingdom."..
Daniel 7:22
Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

And its clear that Christ is who will judge, both the house of God and those who have chosen condemnation by continuing in the bondage of sin.

 

[Hobie]

Now its clear that both the saints and the wicked will be judged by Christ as some claim they get by without it. Lets take a look at scripture:


Matthew 12.36-37
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
John 5.22
For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:
5.27 And has given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Romans 14.10-12
We shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
2 Cor. 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to what he has done, whether it be good or bad.
Acts 3.18-19
But those things, which God foretold by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he has so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Acts 17:30-31
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent: Because he has appointed a day, (can also be translated, time) in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom he has ordained; He has given assurance of this to all men, by raising him from the dead.
Romans 2:15-16
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments" for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

We also find many that claim it's only the wicked that are judged, but the Bible clearly indicts that all will appear before the judgment throne of God, some will receive the judgment of condemnation, others will be judged worthy by the blood of the Lamb.
2 Thessalonians. 1:5
5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Now notice what Peter says:

1 Peter 4:17-18
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

So its clear the saints will be judged before they are given their reward when Christ comes at the Second Coming, so now the question is when do the wicked receive their judgement.

 

[Hobie]

The wicked will see there judgement before Christ in the courtroom scene of Daniel 7 and Revelation 20 we saw before..
Daniel 7:9-10
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Now the idea of books in heaven with our deeds and names recorded in them is also all through the Bible and what can happen.

Malachi tells us about heavenly books containing our records:
Malachi 3.16-17
Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spares his own son that serves him.

Some claim that once they follow God they cannot fall, but the scripture doesnt say that. It shows that you can be blotted out as we see in the Old and the New Testament.

Exodus 32:33
And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

David understood this and He desperately wanted his sins blotted out of those books, and his life cleansed so he could stand at the judgment while God remained just in His dealings.
Psalm 51.1-4
Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy loving kindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

Psalm 51.9-10
Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

The apostle Peter urges us:
Acts 3.19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And we see in Revelation..
Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Hobie]

When Christ stands up, investigative judgment is complete. The book of life contains all the names of the saved.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Then the declaration will go forth as found in Revelation.

Revelation 22:11-14
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings Hobie,

When does the judgement happen? ..for the Believers and for the Wicked.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
So when does this judgment happen?

Jesus will Judge the faithful and unfaithful at the Judgement Seat when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years:
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Daniel 12:1-3 (KJV): 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[ScottA]

The actual time of the Judgement is declared as "from the beginning of the world." But "when" it was not thought of or realized until Peter, having received it from our Father in heaven, declared it as beginning with the saints of that time. Which was then elaborated by Paul to include both the time of the Judgement of the dead and also of the living, as being "but each one in his own order."

However, if one only looks at the timing from within the context of this world and its historic timeline--then error and misunderstanding have already occurred, have already eluded by setting the context limit to the times of this world--which simply is not "all truth."

In other words, we are [individually] created into this world (and its limited context) from eternity, and then leave this world, being [individually] raised up returning to eternity (some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt), but each in our own order or time. Which, from our limited worldly context perspective is going to appear to be "future"--until our time in this world is finished; and yet with God--like "the lamb slain before the foundation of the world"...is not actually a matter of time or of this world.

But what mind, but the mind of Christ, can even comprehend without remaining captive to this world, if only in part?

 

[Davy]

When Jesus returns, that is an initial judgment to separate His sheep from the goats (Matt.25).

And on that same last day of His coming, the 'dead' will be resurrected, some to the "resurrection of life" and others to the "resurrection of damnation" (John 5:28-29).

That "resurrection of life" are Christ's elect that will reign with Him with the "rod of iron" over the unsaved "nations". These elect saints of the "resurrection of life" are called the "first resurrection" in Rev.20. They only will be allowed to approach Christ in that future "thousand years" time and serve Him at His table (Ezekiel 44).

The "nations" mentioned in Rev.20 are not saved, which is what Christ's "rod of iron" is for during that "thousand years" period. We also know they are unsaved because once Satan is loosed after the 1,000 years one final time, he will go to deceive many of those unsaved in those nations, and lead them to attack the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" upon the earth, as written in Rev.20:7-9.

Then after that, per Rev.20:11-15, God's Great White Throne Judgment happens, and the Book of Life is opened to see if any more names are written in it. This Judgment is not for Christ's elect of the "first resurrection", for they were already judged by Christ at His coming, and separated unto Him. It is not their names being looked for in that Book of Life, for their names were already written in it.

IMPORTANT:
Just by mention of a "first resurrection", that automatically implies there will be another second resurrection like it. It cannot mean a resurrection of the wicked dead, because Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 that ALL... the dead are raised on the day of His coming. And since the "first..." resurrection is about Christ's gathered saints, it has to mean the implied 'second' resurrection will also be unto Eternal Life in Christ Jesus.

Will there be more names found in that Book of Life at God's Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:11-12? I believe so. I believe there will be 'converts' to Christ of those unsaved nations during His future "thousand years" reign, and their names will be found in that Book of Life mentioned in the Rev.20:12 verse. Like Peter said, God is long suffering, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3).

 

[Hobie]

Greetings Hobie,

Jesus will Judge the faithful and unfaithful at the Judgement Seat when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years:
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Daniel 12:1-3 (KJV): 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Kind regards
Trevor

No my brother,
Jesus will judge the church first...
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

And this is before the 1000 years as it is at the Second Coming as we see Christ declare...
Matthew 25:31-33
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Matthew 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Jay Ross]

^^ When does the judgement happen? The answer is in around 1,050 years from now, give or take a year or two.

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Hobie,

Jesus will judge the church first...
1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
And this is before the 1000 years as it is at the Second Coming

Yes and this will contain the faithful who will receive everlasting life, and the unfaithful will be rejected and eventually suffer the Second Death.
Daniel 12:1–2 (KJV): 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV): For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Hobie]

Greetings again Hobie,

Yes and this will contain the faithful who will receive everlasting life, and the unfaithful will be rejected and eventually suffer the Second Death.
Daniel 12:1–2 (KJV): 1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV): For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Kind regards
Trevor

We need to line by line and precept upon precept as this one is hard. The faithful are those raised up in the First Resurrection and Christ takes to heaven at the Second Coming, the unfaithful are left behind and only after the 1000 years are they brought up in the resurrection of shame and contempt or damnation as we see.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And we see it in context..
Revelation 20:6
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

At His Second Coming, Christ takes His followers to heaven, to the dwelling places He has prepared for them in heaven.
John 14:2
In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The Saints reign with Christ during the 1000 years of the millennium. It is during the millennium that Christ will fulfill His promise to give the overcomers "power over the nations" as says.
Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Daniel saw that after the destruction of Christ's enemies "the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High".
Daniel 7:27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Those whom Christ raises in the first resurrection will reign with Him for a thousand years as we see in Revelation 20:4.
Revelation 20:6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But in what sense can the saints be said to reign if they are in heaven and all the wicked are dead? Their reign will consist of involvement during the 1000 years of the millennium, the judgment of the wicked. John saw that during the millennium the saints would be involved in judgment; he saw "thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them". This is the time of the judgment of Satan and his angels that Scripture shows.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

It's the time when Paul's declaration that the saints would judge the world and even the angels will come to pass.
1 Corinthians 6:2-3
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Hobie,

We need to line by line and precept upon precept as this one is hard. The faithful are those raised up in the First Resurrection and Christ takes to heaven at the Second Coming, the unfaithful are left behind and only after the 1000 years are they brought up in the resurrection of shame and contempt or damnation as we see.

The detail of the events as revealed in Daniel 12, 2 Timothy 4 and 1 Peter 4:17 is that Jesus returns to set up his Kingdom upon the earth. He raises the many of Daniel 12 and included in this many are the household of faith. Jesus will judge the household of faith first and some of these will be rejected. There will be others among the many raised of Daniel 12, such as the Pharisees and Sadducees who crucified Jesus, but who did not repent after the event. These will be judged and rejected.

There will then be general judgements on the nations, commencing with the Battle of Armageddon, and the outcome of this will be the conversion of a significant remnant of the nation of Israel and the start of the subjugation of the nations with further judgements and these nations will then learn the ways of God Micah 4:1-8, Isaiah 2:1-4. Jesus and the faithful will reign over these nations for the 1000 years as kings and priests.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[GracePeace]

..for the Believers and for the Wicked.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

So when does this judgment happen?

I like this question--justification or condemnation follow judgment.

When judgment, assessment, occurs, justification or condemnation, the adjudication, follows--when we believe, we are justified and at peace (Ro 5:1), so we must have been judged at that time, yet, also, we are justified or condemned on an ongoing basis (Ro 14:23), thus, we must be being assessed and judged on an ongoing basis, and, then, there will also be a final judgment and adjudication after everything is said and done (Ro 2:6-16).

I don't claim to understand Christianity, only I can read and believe the Bible as best I can (which is imperfect understanding)--God is merciful.

 

[Jay Ross]

^^ When does the judgement happen? The answer is in around 1,050 years from now, give or take a year or two.

It seems that people are not able to put this timespan together to come to a similar conclusion as to when the judgement of humanity will happen.

I do not think that Hobbie has the brain cells to be able to rebut the suggested time frame from now, with all of his "religious" knowledge.

 

[Davy]

Greetings again Hobie,

Yes and this will contain the faithful who will receive everlasting life, and the unfaithful will be rejected and eventually suffer the Second Death.
....

That interpretation of Daniel 12 of course does not include the 'details' given by Christ in the Revelation 20 Chapter, nor the details of Zechariah 14:16-19 about the leftovers of the nations that will have come up against Jerusalem being made during Christ's future reign to come up to Jerusalem from year to year and worship Him, and keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Throughout Church history, it has been a favorite tactic to preach fire and brimstone going to hell style preaching in order to try and 'scare' folks to accept The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So those preachers seek out verses that scoot around those other Detailed Scriptures about Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His "rod of iron" over the unsaved nations that will STILL exist after His future return.

 

[Hobie]

Greetings again Hobie,

The detail of the events as revealed in Daniel 12, 2 Timothy 4 and 1 Peter 4:17 is that Jesus returns to set up his Kingdom upon the earth. He raises the many of Daniel 12 and included in this many are the household of faith. Jesus will judge the household of faith first and some of these will be rejected. There will be others among the many raised of Daniel 12, such as the Pharisees and Sadducees who crucified Jesus, but who did not repent after the event. These will be judged and rejected.

There will then be general judgements on the nations, commencing with the Battle of Armageddon, and the outcome of this will be the conversion of a significant remnant of the nation of Israel and the start of the subjugation of the nations with further judgements and these nations will then learn the ways of God Micah 4:1-8, Isaiah 2:1-4. Jesus and the faithful will reign over these nations for the 1000 years as kings and priests.

Kind regards
Trevor

My brother, those left behind are not the saints, that is Satan lie. The saints are taken to heaven as He promised, only after the 1,000 years when the New Jerusalem comes down with Christ and the saints do we see a New Heaven and New Earth as the former is past away...

 

[TrevorHL]

Greetings again Hobie,

My brother, those left behind are not the saints, that is Satan lie. The saints are taken to heaven as He promised, only after the 1,000 years when the New Jerusalem comes down with Christ and the saints do we see a New Heaven and New Earth as the former is past away...

I am very conscious of SDA theology concerning the 1000 years, but your theology and the present post is in complete denial of the clear testimony of the OT prophecies and the NT affirmation of these. As well as Isaiah 65:17-25 that speaks of the New Heavens and Earth and that mortals will be present, Isaiah 2, Zechariah 14 and Malachi 4 also teach this and give relevant detail of what will occur. These prophecies are like bookends to all the writing prophets. There are numerous prophecies in between these that also confirm the detail of the 1000 years upon the earth.

Peter affirms these prophecies by speaking of the fact that Jesus will not be in heaven during the 1000 years, but will return and bring times of refreshing and restoration to the earth and its inhabitants. He clearly states that this is what ALL the prophets teach, but the SDAs teach a burnt and desolate earth.

Acts 3:19-21 (KJV) 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Hobie]

I like this question--justification or condemnation follow judgment.

When judgment, assessment, occurs, justification or condemnation, the adjudication, follows--when we believe, we are justified and at peace (Ro 5:1), so we must have been judged at that time, yet, also, we are justified or condemned on an ongoing basis (Ro 14:23), thus, we must be being assessed and judged on an ongoing basis, and, then, there will also be a final judgment and adjudication after everything is said and done (Ro 2:6-16).

I don't claim to understand Christianity, only I can read and believe the Bible as best I can (which is imperfect understanding)--God is merciful.

There comes a close of probation as Christ declares..

Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

And then the application of the judgement, the punishment which is final..
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[Hobie]

Greetings again Hobie,

I am very conscious of SDA theology concerning the 1000 years, but your theology and the present post is in complete denial of the clear testimony of the OT prophecies and the NT affirmation of these. As well as Isaiah 65:17-25 that speaks of the New Heavens and Earth and that mortals will be present, Isaiah 2, Zechariah 14 and Malachi 4 also teach this and give relevant detail of what will occur. These prophecies are like bookends to all the writing prophets. There are numerous prophecies in between these that also confirm the detail of the 1000 years upon the earth.

Peter affirms these prophecies by speaking of the fact that Jesus will not be in heaven during the 1000 years, but will return and bring times of refreshing and restoration to the earth and its inhabitants. He clearly states that this is what ALL the prophets teach, but the SDAs teach a burnt and desolate earth.

Acts 3:19-21 (KJV) 19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Kind regards
Trevor

And when does this happen my brother, read Gods Word...

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.

2 Peter 3:13
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.


Revelation 21:1
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.