When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[Wick Stick]

"False"

Luke 21:20 in Jerusalem being surrounded by armies is a future event unfulfilled, in the fulfilling of the gentiles also seen in Revelation 11:2 as the book of Revelation was written in 96AD when John was imprisoned by Emperor Domitian that reigned in 81-96AD years "After" Your 70AD claim in fulfillment

Dating Revelation is complicated. There is a very real possibility that part of the book was written earlier and part of it later.

 

[Davidpt]

Sure, if we go that route then I can say the millennium is representative rather than literal, and use Revelation 6:10-11 as an example. Or I can go even further and claim both GWT and NHNE are representative rather than literal. I don’t think any of that will fly with Premils.

Personally, though I'm not disputing the idea of souls in heaven prior to their bodily resurrection, it is likely meaning in this sense, such as the latter below.

Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

 

[grafted branch]

Personally, though I'm not disputing the idea of souls in heaven prior to their bodily resurrection, it is likely meaning in this sense, such as the latter below.

Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Yes, I agree, Genesis 4:10 certainly needs to be considered.

In Matthew 23:35 all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias will come on Jerusalem. Whatever Jerusalem is or represents it dwells on the earth when the souls in Revelation 6:10 ask the question about when their blood will be avenged.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Personally, though I'm not disputing the idea of souls in heaven prior to their bodily resurrection, it is likely meaning in this sense, such as the latter below.

Genesis 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

What is the difference between your view and soul sleep? Do you believe that the souls of the dead in Christ are doing literally nothing in heaven?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

God's words below silence your claims of a 70AD fulfillment of Matthew 24:21 the "Great Tribulation"

No, they do not.

Daniel clearly states that at the time of great tribulation the final judgment (Everyone Found Written In The Book) and the resurrection of "All" takes place, we know well this takes place at the Lord's second coming

Matthew below is in perfect agreement with Daniel, (Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days, They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming) verse 31 shows the angels harvesting in the last day resurrection at the second coming

Conclusion: The great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 is "Future" and immediately after this "Future" great tribulation the second coming, resurrection, and final judgement takes place, your claim in 70AD fulfillment of Matthew 24:21 is 100% "False"

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 24:21 & 29-31KJV
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The Olivet Discourse followed Jesus saying that the temple buildings would be destroyed. So, one of the questions He was asked was about that.

Mark 13:1 And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! 2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

So, the question is, where in the Olivet Discourse did Jesus answer that question? You quoted from Matthew 24:21 and then skipped to Matthew 24:29 and you assume that what Jesus was talking about in Matthew 24:21 is the same as what He was talking about in Matthew 24:29. But, you are missing that "the times of the Gentiles" occur after what is described in Matthew 24:15-21 up until what is described in Matthew 24:29-31.

Have you never read Luke 21?

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Luke 21:20-24 is parallel to Matthew 24:15-21. When the Roman armies surrounded Jerusalem in 70 AD they proceeded to destroy it, including its temple buildings, just as Jesus said would happen. Many of them fell by the edge of the sword and many others were "led away captive into all nations". Believers, heeding Jesus's warning, fled to the mountains before all that happened. That is exactly what happened in 70 AD. And Jerusalem has been trampled upon by the Gentiles ever since during the times of the Gentiles. So, the tribulation of those days has to occur sometime during the times of the Gentiles, not during what is described in Matthew 24:15-21 (Mark 13:14-20, Luke 21:20-24).

And, what about this passage:

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

This passage describes things that would occur some time AFTER what is described in Matthew 24:15-21. But, you have Jesus returning immediately after what is described in Matthew 24:15-21 instead, which doesn't allow for what is described in Matthew 24:23-26 to occur after that. How do you explain that? This passage matches up with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 which indicates that the type of tribulation that will occur right before Jesus returns is related to a high level of deception and wickedness, not to physical destruction.