When are God's Elect Justified?

[JBO]

The question is not whether we are chosen and predestined to become conformed to the image of Jesus Christ, called, justified and glorified. The question that must be answered is what the basis upon which God chooses is. Both Paul and Peter say that basis for God's choosing is His foreknowledge. So now the question becomes how, specifically, is God's foreknowledge the basis for being chosen.

I would argue that question is answered in Romans 8:28. God, in His foreknowledge, knows even from before all creation, who will love Him. It is that foreknowledge of those who will love Him that determines who He predestines.

 

[KUWN]

There are 3 phases/tenses to Salvation.
1. Past - initial Justification (not the second justification in James 2:24)
2. Present - ongoing Sanctification
3. Future - future Glorification

About
1. Past - initial Justification - this is to be declared righteous before God (the second justification before man)
2. Present - ongoing Sanctification - becoming more and more Christ-like, GJohn 17.17
3. Future - future Glorification - this is when we receive our glorified bodies

Rom 8:30 οὓς δὲ προώρισεν, τούτους καὶ ἐκάλεσεν· καὶ οὓς ἐκάλεσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδικαίωσεν· οὓς δὲ ἐδικαίωσεν, τούτους καὶ ἐδόξασεν.
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

The Greek tense of "glorified" is the Aorist Tense (the past tense). Our future glorification is put in the past tense to indicate the certainty of it happening. Just like in Eph 2.6 says we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies (it is a certain future event, hence, Aorist tense).

One final observation in Eph 1.4
καθὼς ἐξελέξατο ἡμᾶς ἐν αὐτῷ πρὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου, εἶναι ἡμᾶς ἁγίους καὶ ἀμώμους κατενώπιον αὐτοῦ
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

This verse shows that we were chosen IN HIM (Evangelicalism), not OUT OF HIM (Calvinism). We are said to possess the 3 phases of Salvation once we are IN HIM, which occurs at the moment of faith in Christ.

Just some random thoughts.

 

[brightfame52]

@JBO

The substance and evidence existing previously is God's word. We hear or read from God's word. We believe what it says about God, about Christ, about the gospel and we then believe in God.

Believe what about Christ ? What did He accomplish and for who, and how did He do it ? Faith believes Christ Justified them He died for by His Blood Rom 5 :9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Do you believe that ?

 

[brightfame52]

The substance and evidence existing previously is God's word. We hear or read from God's word. We believe what it says about God, about Christ, about the gospel and we then believe in God. That is faith. That is the faith that saves. That is the faith through which God justifies and regenerates.

Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:22 That is why his (Abraham's) faith was "counted to him as righteousness." 23 But the words "it was counted to him" were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, 25 who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.

To believe in the name of the Saviour, is to believe in the Person and Work of Jesus Christ: Who He is, what He has done and for whom He has done it !

 

[brightfame52]

@JBO

That is the faith that saves. That is the faith through which God justifies and regenerates.

Faith does none of those things, it believes in the one who does and did those things, God Justifies, God regenerates, God saves, all by His Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

All those who are Justified by His Blood as Per Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by or in his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

All as such have been Justified before God from Eternity, because Christ being slain and redeeming them by His Blood as per Rev 5:9

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This was in the Mind of God from Everlasting, as if had already been done Rom 4:17

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not[as yet in time] as though they were [already accomplished]

For instance, He called Abraham the Father of Many Nations [Gen 17:5], when he was not yet a father at all !

Therefore it stands to sanctified reason, all for whom He died, were already Justified by His Blood as Early as the Eternal Mind could conceive of it ! 6

 

[brightfame52]

@KUWN

There are 3 phases/tenses to Salvation.
1. Past - initial Justification (not the second justification in James 2:24)
2. Present - ongoing Sanctification
3. Future - future Glorification

There's an eternal phase of Salvation due to Gods eternal doings and Purpose 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[JBO]

@KUWN



There's an eternal phase of Salvation due to Gods eternal doings and Purpose 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

In all such passages, Paul intends works of law; believing is a work (John 6:29) but not a work of law. When Paul said that we are saved by grace, not by works, he does not preclude our needing to do something in order to be saved. We must believe (John 6:47).

 

[brightfame52]

In all such passages, Paul intends works of law; believing is a work (John 6:29) but not a work of law. When Paul said that we are saved by grace, not by works, he does not preclude our needing to do something in order to be saved. We must believe (John 6:47).

That post was about the eternal phase of Salvation 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[brightfame52]

The Eternal Justification of God's Elect is foundationed upon Christ's Eternal Suretyship, and we know He was an Surety of a better Covenant from here Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

The question is when did this take place ? I believe it reaches as far back as from Everlasting Micah 5:2

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

John Gill writes of this verse :

By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. Or "covenant", for the word signifies both; and what is intended may be called both a testament and a covenant; a testament, because it is founded in the good will and pleasure of God, and respects an inheritance bequeathed by God the Father to his children, which was confirmed and comes to them by the death of Christ the testator; and a covenant, it being a compact or agreement made by the Father with Christ, as the representative of all the elect; in which promises and blessings of all sorts are provided and secured for them in him; and is called in Scripture a covenant of life and peace, because these are things concerned in it; and is commonly by men called the covenant of grace, because it springs from the grace of God, the subject matter of it is grace, and the end of it is the glory of God's grace: now this is better than the covenant of works broken by man, and which exposes him to the curse and condemnation of the law; or than the covenant of the Levitical priesthood, by which was no perfection; and the form of administration of it under the Gospel dispensation is better than that under the law, for it is now revealed more clearly, and administered without types, shadows, and sacrifices; and the extent of its administration is larger, reaching to Gentiles as well as Jews; and besides, it is now actually ratified and confirmed by the blood of Christ, which is therefore called the blood of the everlasting covenant: and of this testament or covenant Christ is the "surety"; the word signifies one that draws nigh: Christ drew nigh to his Father in the council of peace, and undertook to be the Saviour and Redeemer of his people he substituted himself in their place and stead; he interposed between the creditor and the debtor, and became surety for the payment of the debts of the latter, and so stood engaged for them, and in their room: Christ is not the surety for the Father to his people, but for them to the Father; as to satisfy for their sins, to work out a righteousness for them, to preserve and keep them, and make them happy; which is an instance of matchless love.

Now let us look at the word surety, its the word eggyos:

I.a surety, a sponsor

Now what is a sponser ? Its defined as:

a person who vouches or is responsible for a person or thing. or it can be in the plural as for persons !

I believe it was in the Everlasting Covenant, a Covenant formed by the Triune God before the World began, that the Son of God was made Surety of God's People of the Elect Heb 13:20, and in this Eternal Suretyship, the Sins and Condemnation of the Elect were agreed upon to be His responsibility to Satisfy all of their Violations of God's Law, and so, by this agreement, as far as God's Law and Justice was concerned, they were Justified from all their sins and free from any punishment due to them personally, but it would be meted out in the Person and Work of their Surety, and they were Justified from all sin then !

 

[brightfame52]

Eternal Justification of the Elect !

Just as important as the Elect's Justification before God by the death of Christ alone before any Gospel Obedience by the Justified, just as true and factual was their Justification from the Punishment of their sins by Christ's Suretyship engagement for them in the Everlasting Covenant, when He was constituted their Surety from Everlasting Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Now even though He did not actually die in Eternity past, He did in Eternity Past become responsible for our guilt, as Surety, hence their punishment due to them was due unto Him instead of them because of Surety Responsibility. This Eternal Surety was based upon what He would do in for them enduring their wrath and punishment, after having been made of a women and under the Law Gal 4:4-5

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Since His Death of Redemption was appointed for the before the foundation 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you. AMP

So this being True, so did they have Justification before God's Law and Justice from the Punishment of their sins before the foundation of the world !6

 

[brightfame52]

Denying Eternal Justification is quite serious !

Denying Eternal Justification is quite serious in that it disregards God as a Judge, also it disregards what is from scripture, an obvious Judgment of God from before the foundation, this we know from scriptures like Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain[In Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11] from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Foreordained for what Purpose ? 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Foreordained for certain foreknown Elect Individuals 1 Pet 1:2 to be redeemed by the Precious blood of the Lamb, which was slain from the foundation Rev 13:8 !

Now by this it is very clear that God the Judge has already decided that the sins of the Elect foreknown should be laid on Christ, thus He should be slain for them and again raised for their Justification Rom 4:25, for this obviously He had already decided as Judge before all worlds.

Now when a case of a person has been thus decided for that individual, their Justification or condemnation, that official decision stands from the date thereof . Now when was the date of God's decision on redeeming His Elect by the Blood of Christ ? 1 Pet 1:18-20

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

He was manifest in time for specifically these 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Peter was very specific on this, for He wrote manifested FOR YOU !

Now this also means that God before the foundation had Judged and determined not to impute the transgressions of the elect upon them, but instead on Christ the Lamb for them, and by virtue of the Divine Reckoning, Christ was a slain Lamb from the foundation, slain for the sins of specific foreknown individuals, and these foreknown Individuals were recorded in the Lambs Book of Life Rev 13:8;17:8, and His coming to accomplish the Work Heb 10:7,9 ; Ps 40:6-8, and those whose names that had been written in the Book of Life, also had imputed to them, based upon the coming of Christ for them, Justification of Life, so if their Names were written in the Lambs Book of Life before the foundation, then also was God's Judging them to Justification of Life ! Denying this is very serious and anti gospel ! 6

 

[KUWN]

We were chosen in him before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1.3). Theologically, this is known as Positional Truth. Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, but the PLAN was chosen. So, God predetermined a PLAN that included justifying all those who are found IN HIM. How one enters him is through faith in Christ as Savior. So, I became justified at the moment I accept Christ as Savior back in 1978. That is when I entered union with Christ. Christ is the chosen One, and those who are IN HIM share his election. Repeat, individuals are not elected to salvation, individuals are elected to salvation at the moment they accept Christ as Savior.

So, you can see that God is not a monster and chooses who he arbitrarily wants to save. God wants all people to come to a knowledge of the true and be saved. Positional Truth explains both election and predestination.

Ron 16.7
Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.

Not Paul did not say we were both chosen before the foundation of the world.

 

[brightfame52]

@KUWN

We were chosen in him before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1.3). Theologically, this is known as Positional Truth. Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, but the PLAN was chosen

False witness

 

[KUWN]

We were chosen in him before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1.3). Theologically, this is known as Positional Truth. Individuals were not chosen before the foundation of the world, but the PLAN was chosen



False witness

scholarly response.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ was slain from the foundation of the World !

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

When Preaching about Christ died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3 we cannot shun the whole counsel of it. 1 Cor 15:3 is only part of a whole, with many more sublime Truths accompanying it, such as He being slain from or before the foundation of the World ! Now because of this, those Christ died for as the Lamb slain before the foundation, they never had their sins and condemnation, which He was slain for, charged directly on them, which fact means their Justification from them and its condemnation. In the Eternal Purpose of Christ Jesus Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

God had predetermined / decreed that Christ should be charged with and die for their sins and condemnation, even though He had not actually died until in Time at the Cross in the fulness of time.

When those who had been chosen in Him before the foundation Eph 1:4, He also before the foundation received with them their liability/ and Suretyship, for their sins and condemnation in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Jesus, again though He did not die before the foundation, He did receive the sentence of Death for their sins before the foundation, to be carried out at an Hour set in Time, and in fact that was the foundation for His Incarnation Heb 10:5-10,14

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 6

 

[brightfame52]

scholarly response.

Try reading the rest of my posts 4 more scholarly comments.

 

[Behold]

The question is not whether we are chosen and predestined to become conformed to the image of Jesus Christ

Actually the end result of Theologically Ignorant and Satanic Calvinism, that misunderstood that "predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ" is not "causing someone to initially have faith by predestination".. is that it produces incredibly confused people.

So, the end result of that backwards and truly ignorant theology, is you produce a deceived disciple of Calvin, with it, and that is about as bad as it gets......as Calvinism, is a Cross denying Lie, and it has this interesting demonic power that causes the believer to believe that God made them Trust in Christ...........which is one more Lie of Calvinism.
And none of them believed that when they were SAVED......unless they were already into Calvinism, and then trusted in Jesus.........So..NO.. most were led to believe this LATER, when they read some Calvinism or heard it.., and it took their mind and caused them to THINK a certain way , (deceived them).. regarding HOW they became a Christian.

Calvinism is a pack of demonic lies, neatly presented, that sound TRUE.. And in general, that is The absolutely perfect understanding of The Satanic Lie, in operation, as a Theological DECEPTION.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ was slain from the foundation of the World ! 2

Jn 6:38

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jesus here makes it plain as to why He came down from Heaven, it was to do His Father's and God will, the same will in Heb 10:7,9-10

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This lets us know that before He came down from heaven, He knew it had to do with His previous Suretyship engagement, to be an Offering for sin Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Thats the Offering in Heb 10:10,14 ! So all the time before His coming into the world, the sins of those He was charged with, were never charged to them, a whole World of men 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Those whom Christ had been charged with their sins, they never legally by God, had them charged to them, which makes them even before the Incarnation, legally Justified, Acquitted from them, and the condemnation of them, even too, when they are dead in trespasses and sins they are Acquitted before God of all sin ! All this is True from the fact that In the Eternal Purpose of Christ, before the foundation, He was already slain by Eternal Decree, which means that God had already determined that Christ should die in their stead for their sin and condemnation, making them free from all condemnation ! 6

 

[brightfame52]

@Behold

Actually the end result of Theologically Ignorant and Satanic Calvinism, that misunderstood that "predestined to be conformed into the image of Christ" is not "causing someone to initially have faith by predestination".. is that it produces incredibly confused people.

Yes it does, because Christ had Faith, and was faithful, those predestinated to be conformed to His image will be caused to have Faith/Trust Heb 2:13

13 And again, I[Jesus] will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I[Jesus] and the children which God hath given me.

That word trust is also faith

So one cannot be conformed to the image of Christ, their elder brother without being given faith

Rom 8 29

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.