What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?

[Earburner]

long suffering = patiently waiting.....and he will wait till we nigh destroy ourselves as a planet/ people....then, the rescue mission which all God's people long for.

Who are God's people?

 

[quietthinker]

Maybe this is close as you can get to being honest?

Maybe I recognise when taking it further with you, my ole mate, is futile.
I have noticed you misrepresent to suit your narrative. Engaging in this environment only promotes a shit fight.....and I don't care for shit fights.

 

[quietthinker]

Who are God's people?

All who have aligned themselves and desire God's reality and those longing for Jesus' return.

 

[Earburner]

God requires obedience and love and that is all. While God can be angry, this is not the method of reconciling the world to Himself.

Rom. 8
[6] For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded [in Christ] is life and peace.
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity [at war] against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

@Earburner
God revealed through His Son what he delights in and Paul recorded this for our learning: Psalm 40:7–8; Hebrews 10:5–10; John 10:18; Philippians 2:8

You are preaching to the choir! Please see my post #78, 81 and 84.

 

[Earburner]

All who have aligned themselves and desire God's reality and those longing for Jesus' return.

Very vague! Where are your scripture quotes?
Never mind, I notice that you are a person of many words, but hardly anything from "The Word".
This might help:
Rom. 8:8-11
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not [only] in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[quietthinker]

Very vague! Where are your scripture quotes?
Never mind, I notice that you are a person of many words, but hardly anything from "The Word".
This might help:
Rom. 8:8-11
[8] So then they that are in the flesh [only] cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not [only] in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

is it really assumed that running off lots of scriptures makes a matter more true?

 

[face2face]

Maybe I recognise when taking it further with you, my ole mate, is futile.
I have noticed you misrepresent to suit your narrative. Engaging in this environment only promotes a shit fight.....and I don't care for shit fights.

No, the number of unanswered posts speaks for itself. We've discussed the distance you maintain from the Word and from conversations that aim to correct your misguided theology. There's no need to resort to insults to make this point. The question is whether you choose to remain in this state like the prodigal son, or come to your senses and seek His truth.

No need to fling human excrement around!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Very vague! Where are your scripture quotes?
Never mind, I notice that you are a person of many words, but hardly anything from "The Word".

Maybe he has a fear of losing his own objectivity which is why he remains non-committal?

F2F

 

[face2face]

is it really assumed that running off lots of scriptures makes a matter more true?

The text is an offense?

 

[quietthinker]

No, the number of unanswered posts speaks for itself. We've discussed the distance you maintain from the Word and from conversations that aim to correct your misguided theology. There's no need to resort to insults to make this point. The question is whether you choose to remain in this state like the prodigal son, or come to your senses and seek His truth.

No need to fling human excrement around!

F2F

Your imagination it seems knows no bounds when it comes to making unwarranted and untrue charges f2f. I wonder if that is the process you use to elevate yourself in your own understanding or is it just the default of the human nature?

 

[quietthinker]

The text is an offense?

Above is a good example of interpreting a question in the worst light.
Maybe you are not aware that when you engage with me you use this principle to make charges, further bouncing your assumptions off your own negative constructs as grounds to blame.

 

[face2face]

Above is a good example of interpreting a question in the worst light.
Maybe you are not aware that when you engage with me you use this principle to make charges, further bouncing your assumptions off your own negative constructs as grounds to blame.

It seems as though you are resistant to Scriptural evidence. Is this your issue? Clearly I am not the only one who has highlighted this issue with you.

Also, even if the above had any resemblence of truth why would you not take some ownership?

F2F

 

[ScottA]

I have intentionally made the topic rather vague to bring out the two aspects of condemnation. There are two, distinct condemnations mentioned in Scripture. The first condemnation is called 'positional' condemnation. This is given to each person born into the world. In other words, it is the condemnation of being "in Adam." See Romans 5 for the contrast between Christ and Adam's positional truth. God condemns each person who enters this world with positional condemnation (i.e., in Adam). With this positional condemnation, we are immediately born qualified to be the recipients of God's grace and mercy. This is illustrated in Rom 11.32.

The other condemnation is 'eternal' condemnation. This is what happens when a person rejects Christ as Savior, see Matt 12.37. A person is eternally condemned by rejecting Jesus as Savior. It is by his words that he is condemned. The important thing to remember is nobody is born eternally condemned, only positional condemnation. As an illustration of this, see 2 Sam 12. David's new born child died and went to Paradise. This is why David says he will see his son again, because there is no basic for the child's eternal condemnation, only positional condemnation.

Another important point to bring out is that unbelievers are not eternally condemned for their personal sins. All sins were paid for by Christ on the Cross. That is why the gospel is the good news to unbelievers. The issue is no longer sin, but a Son. Go to any judgment passage for believers or unbelievers, you will not see the word sin mentioned. For the believer, he goes to the Rewards Ceremony (mistranslated Judgment Seat of Christ) after being rewarded for his works. For the unbeliever, he goes to the Lake of Fire based on his works (his works will not get him into heaven). Not by works of righteousness which we have done...

I will reread this post after I get back tonight. Didn't have time to edit it yet.

You have asked a good question. But you yourself have not answered it well.

The "basis" for condemnation, is that there is only One begotten--only One born out of this world into life everlasting; and unless one is in Him (Christ Jesus), this life in this world is all there is. Which is its own gift, but also its form of condemnation--because eternal life was and is offered to all, although many do not receive it.

 

[Johann]

I have intentionally made the topic rather vague to bring out the two aspects of condemnation. There are two, distinct condemnations mentioned in Scripture. The first condemnation is called 'positional' condemnation. This is given to each person born into the world. In other words, it is the condemnation of being "in Adam." See Romans 5 for the contrast between Christ and Adam's positional truth. God condemns each person who enters this world with positional condemnation (i.e., in Adam). With this positional condemnation, we are immediately born qualified to be the recipients of God's grace and mercy. This is illustrated in Rom 11.32.

The other condemnation is 'eternal' condemnation. This is what happens when a person rejects Christ as Savior, see Matt 12.37. A person is eternally condemned by rejecting Jesus as Savior. It is by his words that he is condemned. The important thing to remember is nobody is born eternally condemned, only positional condemnation. As an illustration of this, see 2 Sam 12. David's new born child died and went to Paradise. This is why David says he will see his son again, because there is no basic for the child's eternal condemnation, only positional condemnation.

Another important point to bring out is that unbelievers are not eternally condemned for their personal sins. All sins were paid for by Christ on the Cross. That is why the gospel is the good news to unbelievers. The issue is no longer sin, but a Son. Go to any judgment passage for believers or unbelievers, you will not see the word sin mentioned. For the believer, he goes to the Rewards Ceremony (mistranslated Judgment Seat of Christ) after being rewarded for his works. For the unbeliever, he goes to the Lake of Fire based on his works (his works will not get him into heaven). Not by works of righteousness which we have done...

I will reread this post after I get back tonight. Didn't have time to edit it yet.

The basis for the unbeliever’s condemnation is primarily rooted in their rejection of God and failure to respond to His revealed truth. Several scriptures highlight this:

John 3:18-19: "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

This passage makes it clear that condemnation stems from rejecting the light of Christ and clinging to sin.

Romans 1:18-20: "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

This emphasizes that God’s revelation in creation leaves people without excuse, as they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
This verse shows the universal condition of sin, which leads to condemnation apart from salvation in Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9: "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power."

Condemnation is tied to both ignorance of God and disobedience to the gospel.

Revelation 20:12-15: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. ... And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Here, final condemnation comes from being judged according to deeds and not having one’s name in the Book of Life.

The consistent message is that unbelief, rejection of God's revelation (both general and specific), and sin are the foundations for condemnation.

J.

 

[quietthinker]

It seems as though you are resistant to Scriptural evidence. Is this your issue? Clearly I am not the only one who has highlighted this issue with you.

Also, even if the above had any resemblence of truth why would you not take some ownership?

F2F

The title of this thread is...

What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?​

Perhaps we could rename it,

What is the basis for the believer's condemnation?​

Whatcha say?

 

[Johann]

The title of this thread is...

What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?​

Perhaps we could rename it,

What is the basis for the believer's condemnation?​

Whatcha say?

For the believer, there is no condemnation, as they are justified in Christ. This truth is clearly expressed in several passages of Scripture:

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
This verse declares that those who are in Christ are no longer under condemnation because they have been set free from the law of sin and death.

John 5:24: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Believers have already transitioned from death to life, and condemnation is no longer their portion.

Colossians 2:13-14: "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."
Christ has fully dealt with the debt of sin, removing the believer’s guilt and any grounds for condemnation.

Isaiah 53:5-6 (prophecy fulfilled in Christ): "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
Christ bore the punishment for sin, ensuring that those who trust in Him are no longer under judgment.

2 Corinthians 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
The believer’s condemnation is removed because Christ took their sin and credited His righteousness to them.

The basis for the believer’s lack of condemnation is not in their own righteousness or works but solely in the finished work of Christ on the cross. His atoning sacrifice, coupled with faith in Him, removes all grounds for condemnation, replacing it with reconciliation and eternal life.

J.

 

[quietthinker]

For the believer, there is no condemnation, as they are justified in Christ. This truth is clearly expressed in several passages of Scripture:

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
This verse declares that those who are in Christ are no longer under condemnation because they have been set free from the law of sin and death.

John 5:24: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."
Believers have already transitioned from death to life, and condemnation is no longer their portion.

Colossians 2:13-14: "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."
Christ has fully dealt with the debt of sin, removing the believer’s guilt and any grounds for condemnation.

Isaiah 53:5-6 (prophecy fulfilled in Christ): "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."
Christ bore the punishment for sin, ensuring that those who trust in Him are no longer under judgment.

2 Corinthians 5:21: "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
The believer’s condemnation is removed because Christ took their sin and credited His righteousness to them.

The basis for the believer’s lack of condemnation is not in their own righteousness or works but solely in the finished work of Christ on the cross. His atoning sacrifice, coupled with faith in Him, removes all grounds for condemnation, replacing it with reconciliation and eternal life.

J.

Johann....you have missed the immediate context of my conversation with f2f. It is on the nature of our exchange that (in humour) a thread title change was suggested.

 

[face2face]

The title of this thread is...

What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?​

Perhaps we could rename it,

What is the basis for the believer's condemnation?​

Whatcha say?

The title would be irrelevant to your wordplay.

 

[face2face]

For the believer, there is no condemnation, as they are justified in Christ. This truth is clearly expressed in several passages of Scripture:

Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."
This verse declares that those who are in Christ are no longer under condemnation because they have been set free from the law of sin and death.

How will a person be found to be "in" Christ Jesus?

 

[Johann]

How will a person be found to be "in" Christ Jesus?

You don't know?

J.