What is the basis for the unbeliever's condemnation?

[face2face]

It would benefit the whole forum to have these posts pinned!

 

[Johann]

It would benefit the whole forum to have these posts pinned!

--and see who is falling OUT of this race.

J.

 

[Earburner]

is it really assumed that running off lots of scriptures makes a matter more true?

There is no such thing as the Gospel according to "Quietthinker" or "Earburner".
Only Jesus is the Gospel, and therefore is the ONLY authority about the KoG.
All else is commentary, of which is coming from either the carnal mind of human wisdom, or that of the spiritual mind of Christ, His Holy Spirit.

The NT scriptures ARE that authority of Christ. Please learn to quote from it, and NOT that of your own carnal human wisdom.
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [anointing] of God.

 

[KUWN]

Incorrect-read the Scriptures.

J.

I will take this response as you have no intelligent reply.

 

[Earburner]

So how can a person truly be in Christ and know for certain they are?

John 3
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye MUST BE born again.
(See also John 14:23).

Rom. 8:8-11
[8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 John 5:11-13
[11] And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
[12] He that HATH the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
[13] These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No! No one is pre-ordained to be saved. Only Jesus was pre-ordained for the giving of the Gift of God's salvation, which is Jesus Himself.
He, who is the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sin of the world, was freely GIVEN to ALL OF US (the world), so that "whosoever will" may come to God in repentance, having free access to God's free Gift of His salvation, by having faith in Jesus.

The "whosoever" is a message to us for our perspective only; since we do not have omniscience, we do not know the future and so it is presented that way to us. But God alone knows the beginning and the ending of all things. This is in the realm of His foreknowledge, His sovereignty. He has a Perfect Plan.
A perfect plan designed cannot be altered by mankind. If it could, it would not be perfect. He is the Author of our faith - so our story is written by Him.. Prophecy could not be fulfilled with hair splitting accuracy throughout history if God did not really know the details. Do you really think salvation comes to Him each day by surprise? If our salvation was predicated by our choices alone, ( our so called "free will"), He would not be sovereign, He could not claim to be the Author, just a hopeful advocate, wondering how many will come into the Kingdom. Angels jump for joy because they don't know and are surprised. Satan does not know, but God does. Sheep are given to Christ by the Father - before they are saved. No one can come to the Father unless He first draws them.
Now this drawing power/ influence, the inner and outer calling, requires years and sometimes a lifetime of God's guidance, lessons, witnesses and Gospel seeds planted that sometimes remain dormant but eventually lead to that moment, the divine appointment -- all designed by and within the Providence of God.

For instance, in reference to the salvation of a remnant in Israel during the Great Tribulation, God states that 1/3 will be saved and 2/3 not. If there are 7,208,000 million Jews in Israel today, if He intends on saving 1/3 of them to Christ (see Rom. 11), then there's a precise number that He had in mind long ago. And btw, that 1/3 happens to apply to Christians as well. Currently there are 8.1 billion living souls and 2.7 billion Christians (1/3).
In the year 1900, there were 1.6 billion souls living on the planet and about 1/3 were Christians.
Mankind did not by chance coincidence (the whosoevers) fell on those ordained numbers.

 

[quietthinker]

There is no such thing as the Gospel according to "Quietthinker" or "Earburner".
Only Jesus is the Gospel, and therefore is the ONLY authority about the KoG.
All else is commentary, of which is coming from either the carnal mind of human wisdom, or that of the spiritual mind of Christ, His Holy Spirit.

The NT scriptures ARE that authority of Christ. Please learn to quote from it, and NOT that of your own carnal human wisdom.
1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power [anointing] of God.

One can quote infinitum Eb, however if ones paradigm is faulty/ skewed, what is the good of it? It will be made to say things not intended. The devil's quoting of scripture to Jesus in the desert and how the Jews used it to condemn Jesus are examples of this.

I have no interest in participating in a 'club' where individuals outdo each other in quoting scripture as if the more one can quote the greater kudos one has....and further, the righter one thinks one is.....even making charges against those who don't follow this pattern. It's just a toss to even have and practice values along those lines!

 

[face2face]

I have no interest in participating in a 'club' where individuals outdo each other in quoting scripture as if the more one can quote the greater kudos one has....and further, the righter one thinks one is.....even making charges against those who don't follow this pattern. It's just a toss to even have and practice values along those lines!

Every instance where you've attempted to quote Scripture has backfired on you, so I'm not surprised that you hold this position and dismiss those who disagree.

 

[quietthinker]

Every instance where you've attempted to quote Scripture has backfired on you, so I'm not surprised that you hold this position and dismiss those who disagree.

I certainly hope you understand the principle of objectivity and how it varies from subjectivity!

 

[Earburner]

One can quote infinitum Eb, however if ones paradigm is faulty/ skewed, what is the good of it? It will be made to say things not intended. The devil's quoting of scripture to Jesus in the desert and how the Jews used it to condemn Jesus are examples of this.

I have no interest in participating in a 'club' where individuals outdo each other in quoting scripture as if the more one can quote the greater kudos one has....and further, the righter one thinks one is.....even making charges against those who don't follow this pattern. It's just a toss to even have and practice values along those lines!

Quoting NT scripture for support of one's faith is providing evidence that one understands the Doctrine of Christ, as opposed to the doctrines of church-ianity, of which does hatch the doctrines of men.

 

[face2face]

I certainly hope you understand the principle of objectivity and how it varies from subjectivity!

I've looked for the principle of integrity and I continue to look....

 

[Earburner]

The "whosoever" is a message to us for our perspective only; since we do not have omniscience, we do not know the future and so it is presented that way to us. But God alone knows the beginning and the ending of all things. This is in the realm of His foreknowledge, His sovereignty. He has a Perfect Plan.
A perfect plan designed cannot be altered by mankind. If it could, it would not be perfect. He is the Author of our faith - so our story is written by Him.. Prophecy could not be fulfilled with hair splitting accuracy throughout history if God did not really know the details. Do you really think salvation comes to Him each day by surprise? If our salvation was predicated by our choices alone, ( our so called "free will"), He would not be sovereign, He could not claim to be the Author, just a hopeful advocate, wondering how many will come into the Kingdom. Angels jump for joy because they don't know and are surprised. Satan does not know, but God does. Sheep are given to Christ by the Father - before they are saved. No one can come to the Father unless He first draws them.
Now this drawing power/ influence, the inner and outer calling, requires years and sometimes a lifetime of God's guidance, lessons, witnesses and Gospel seeds planted that sometimes remain dormant but eventually lead to that moment, the divine appointment -- all designed by and within the Providence of God.

For instance, in reference to the salvation of a remnant in Israel during the Great Tribulation, God states that 1/3 will be saved and 2/3 not. If there are 7,208,000 million Jews in Israel today, if He intends on saving 1/3 of them to Christ (see Rom. 11), then there's a precise number that He had in mind long ago. And btw, that 1/3 happens to apply to Christians as well. Currently there are 8.1 billion living souls and 2.7 billion Christians (1/3).
In the year 1900, there were 1.6 billion souls living on the planet and about 1/3 were Christians.
Mankind did not by chance coincidence (the whosoevers) fell on those ordained numbers.

The simple words: "For God so loved world, that He GAVE his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.", is to EVERY person. Though God, through His foreknowledge will know who shall come and who will not, no one is preordained into the KoG, or out of the KoG.
All of it, for whatever their decision, is by their own free will.

 

[quietthinker]

Quoting NT scripture for support of one's faith is providing evidence that one understands the Doctrine of Christ, as opposed to the doctrines of church-ianity, of which does hatch the doctrines of men.

Every interpretation is subjective. In other words it is how one sees/ hears/ understands the words. Understand them well or those very words one hangs so much value on could be opposed to you!

Luke 8:18
So beware how you listen, for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.”

 

[quietthinker]

I've looked for the principle of integrity and I continue to look....

Objectivity and subjectivity are the words I've used.

 

[Johann]

Every interpretation is subjective. In other words it is how one sees/ hears/ understands the words. Understand them well or those very words one hangs so much value on could be opposed to you!

Luke 8:18
So beware how you listen, for whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has shall be taken away from him.”

1Pe_3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

J.

 

[face2face]

Objectivity and subjectivity are the words I've used.

I'm still looking for integrity...

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The simple words: "For God so loved world, that He GAVE his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.", is to EVERY person. Though God, through His foreknowledge will know who shall come and who will not, no one is preordained into the KoG, or out of the KoG.
All of it, for whatever their decision, is by their own free will.

Have it your way.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The simple words: "For God so loved world, that He GAVE his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.", is to EVERY person. Though God, through His foreknowledge will know who shall come and who will not, no one is preordained into the KoG, or out of the KoG.
All of it, for whatever their decision, is by their own free will.

Yah and prompt the whosoever is drawn first by God. Remember Jesus simple words in John 6:44: No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the Last Day
John 6:37: "All that the Father gives me will come to me."
And before they hear and come they were predestined, then called.
John 10:26
Jesus reiterated that these people were not His sheep and were practically deaf to the voice of God.

Here we have those who have not yet heard His call and were already His.
And some already belong to the Devil, reprobates.

John 10:4
Jesus said that those who belong to God recognize His voice, but those who belong to the Devil do not respond when called by Christ.

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:30
Here we see Rebecca children elect before they were born:
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls) Rom. 9:10-11

 

[quietthinker]

Yah and prompt the whosoever is drawn first by God. Remember Jesus simple words in John 6:44: No man can come to Me unless the Father who hath sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the Last Day
John 6:37: "All that the Father gives me will come to me."
And before they hear and come they were predestined, then called.
John 10:26
Jesus reiterated that these people were not His sheep and were practically deaf to the voice of God.

Here we have those who have not yet heard His call and were already His.
And some already belong to the Devil, reprobates.

John 10:4
Jesus said that those who belong to God recognize His voice, but those who belong to the Devil do not respond when called by Christ.

And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Romans 8:30
Here we see Rebecca children elect before they were born:
And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls) Rom. 9:10-11

You can be certain that those who persist in vilifying others (even if it is under the cover of anonymity) are on a slipperier slope than is realised.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You can be certain that those who persist in vilifying others (even if it is under the cover of anonymity) are on a slipperier slope than is realised.

What the heck are you talking about???
Sharing scriptures here.