What is Holy Spirit?
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Are you suggesting that I am not thinking for myself?
How about if I suggested you are not thinking for yourself? Would you like that?
Where would that get us, except attacking each other's intelligence - another way of saying 'personal attack'?
You believe that, and you are free to believe what you want.
God is a spirit John 4:24, and God has spirit - the holy spirit Luke 11:20; Matthew 12:28.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I have been accused of a whole lot worse so no it would not bother me.
Well we agree that god is Spirit as John 4 says.
As fpor God having Spirit- depends what you mean by that.
And then as 2 Cor. clearly and unambiguously says- God is THE Spirit- the Holy Spirit.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I believe i saw his point . He is saying notice how they recieved the HOLY GHOST BAPTISM , even before being water baptized .
AND oh yes i believe one should be water baptized as well .
But its been my point all along . I tried to explain this to another on this site but all they can see is the CC .
Grace found me , before the water did . Meaning GOD truly did send grace and the Spirit unto me .
I was given a new heart and much love for the truth . Thus into the bible i went .
And day by day and hour by hour the LORD was leading me . This too is why i was later led
to be water baptized . But as i said to another on this site , It was my faith in Christ alone by the Grace of GOD
that first saved and changed me from within . Teaching me and giving me the new will to do those things
that are pleasing to GOD . So in time , I sure did get water baptized as well . Be ye hearers and doers of the Word
Obey the Spirit , for it is HE who works in a lamb the things that are pleasing in His sight . Now put those hands up
and let the glorious and the wonderous LORD be praised .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yes the three are one indeed .
Notice that when Christ was telling them about the coming of the SPIRIT that they would later recieve .
He says , HE IS WITH YOU and SHALL BE IN YOU . Notice HE said HE would send the SPIRIT in HIS name
and that HE would not leave them alone . I will come to YOU . Notice the I in that word .
THEY are truly one . GOD is HIS SPIRIT . AS HE is HIS WORD and HIS SPIRIT is HIS WORD . THEY are truly one .
True , it might be harder for some to understand this . But notice paul even says THE SPIRIT of GOD within you
And HE also says the SPIRIT of CHRIST in another place . I know it can be hard for some
to grasp this .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
My friend i truly worry not about who attacks me . And many names have i been given
over the years . And quite a few of those names were even given to me by those who professed to know Christ .
Yet did not .
Many of those names i cannot repeat in the presence of men for they were nasty words
but here are some that i can . Son of perditon , anti Christ or an anti christ , a hater of humanity , demon possesed
Names are but names and why let it bother you if one thinks you have zero intellence .
Most folks think me quite dumb and slow . TO which i rejoice . For i were intellectually wise as i once was
I would not know Christ . The wisdom of this world is foolishness with GOD
and why should i be offended if one attacks my intelligence , WHEN IN TRUTH
the only reason i have knowlege of the truth or wisdom , IS by GOD himself . Not by me , HE simply gives and giveth
as we have need . I say to all , REJOICE when persecuted , rejoice when name called
when one is speaking truth . Correct any who does err and do so fast . But remember the blind cannot lead the blind .
If a brother or sister acts out in anger , do correct them , and if they repent amen .
But let not the words and actions of men offend us when we speak and do the things of the glorious LORD .
Rather pray for them . And yes always correct . Never stop correcting any error if seen in another .
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
His Son was the Word and the Word was omnipresent. That part of Jesus is the glory He had before becoming flesh.
Now I'm going to reprint that portion of my post that you said you "disagree, because I do not see that idea in the scriptures." Please highlight in red what other portions you don't agree with besides the glory of being omnipresent. You don't need to highlight that part. I just wrote more than and would like to know why you disagree with the other parts you didn't seem to refer to?
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I agree. There are many calling themselves Christians, that have not completely opened the door to Jesus and surrendered their whole lives to Him. As far as the Holy Spirit, He is still on the outside drawing them to open the door. We are not truly Christians until the Spirit of Christ lives on the inside of us, empowering us to be like Him. That is what Romans 8:9 means.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
He was just referring to your order of events. You said we receive the Spirit after being water baptized. Then he referred you to Cornelius. And now you are acknowledging that he received the Holy Spirit, and then was baptized in water.
I say we cannot make formulas. God doesn't fit in our tiny boxes. But like Christ being water baptized, and then the Spirit came upon Him, we must fulfill all righteous also. I hate to see some Christians who believe water baptism is a "work" so won't be baptized. I've only seen two people in all my time on different forums who say that, but there may be more.
We must take part in both Christ's crucifixion AND resurrection. Romans 6.
Crucifixion: water baptism
Resurrection: gift of the Holy Spirit
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I went back and reread your post. You are right, you meant Holy Spirit.
Bottom line. Jesus came to take away our sin nature we inherited from Adam. The Holy Spirit then gives us the same nature that Christ had. That is our spirit/mind becoming born again - from Adam to Christ.
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I agree. I was baptized and prayed for to receive the Holy Spirit. And if someone receives the Holy Spirit first they should want to be baptized as the scriptures commanded.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Personally, that is my experience. I was baptized 3 times, then 4 years later I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Wow! What a change, and I also received most of the gifts of the Spirit. Through them I heard God say to me, "Now be baptized in water," so I did. I guess the other 3 didn't count in His eyes.
Yes, I did, but not immediately. I was too green and unknowing about God and the things of God.
Fortunately for us, my wife and I, we were looking for something in God. We knew it existed even if we did not understand what it was. There are a lot of ignorant and/or foolish people supposedly standing on God's side. Will some then stand on the left with the judgement of the goats? This is for sure why I am glad I am not called to be anyone's ultimate judge. Who but God can do that fairly?
So you would like it if I said you can't think for yourself.
Hmmm. Well Jesus did say, 'Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.' So I guess that explains why you prefer to make personal attacks on others.
In the world, some people do like to fight and cuss out. Sad that there would be some who profess to be Christian, doing the same.
Even though I am not bothered by what others think up in their head about me, because they may have a feeling of self-righteousness, I don't believe in returning evil for evil, so I try to not get into the tit for tat posts.
Besides, the first thing I do when I come on a forum, is read the rules, and then try not to violate them.
So even when others break them, I remember what I read...
Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Christianity Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.
What did Jesus mean by that, is the question.
Luke 11:20 But if I by the finger of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Matthew 12:28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
You think Jesus is saying the finger of God is God, and then try to insult my intelligence.
I don't think any child would agree with you, unless they were just going along with what they were told.
Those who reason however, would say something like, '...but my finger is not me! How could God's finger be him? Wouldn't God's finger belong to him, and be a part of him?'
Isn't it interesting that Trinitarians don't see a problem with using the egg analogy - three parts making a whole, and then saying that each part is the same. So the white is the shell, and the yoke is the shell.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
He meant exactly what He said!
Well I can, but it is not always right. I have to even train my thinking to filter it through the word.
Well if you do not understand euphemisms, I am not hear to teach you English comp! Buyt as Jesus is God- when He uses His finger it is the finger of God!
then you vain gibberish makes no sense. I never claimed Gods ffinger is all of God! So that is inane.
Isn't it interesting that Trinitarians don't see a problem with using the egg analogy - three parts making a whole, and then saying that each part is the same. So the white is the shell, and the yoke is the shell.
I missed this one. but it is a clumsy example of people trying to find some rational explanation to describe who God is according to the bible!
What did Jesus mean by that, is the question.
Luke 11:20 But if I by the finger of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Matthew 12:28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
You think Jesus is saying the finger of God is God, and then try to insult my intelligence.
I don't think any child would agree with you, unless they were just going along with what they were told.
Those who reason however, would say something like, '...but my finger is not me! How could God's finger be him? Wouldn't God's finger belong to him, and be a part of him?'
He meant exactly what he said, but I don't understand euphemisms.
LOL.
...and, you never claimed God's finger is all of God? You didn't?
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Luke 11:20 But if I by the finger of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Matthew 12:28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
You think Jesus is saying the finger of God is God, and then try to insult my intelligence.
I don't think any child would agree with you, unless they were just going along with what they were told.
Those who reason however, would say something like, '...but my finger is not me! How could God's finger be him? Wouldn't God's finger belong to him, and be a part of him?'
I just had to put that here for another look.
He meant exactly what he said, but I don't understand euphemisms.
LOL.
...and, you never claimed God's finger is all of God? You didn't?
So God is the holy spirit, and the holy spirit is God, but not all of God.Ronald Nolette said:
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I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
Do you mean this?
I mean we become children of God with His divine nature. Not all of his power like God, but with the nature of Christ while He was on earth. As you know Jesus while in His earthly minister was not omnipresent. He couldn't be everywhere at once, but now He can in the form of His Spirit. He can now be in me, and at the same time be in you, or others around the world. That is a glory. In John 17 Jesus asked the Father to return His glory that He had before when He was with God before becoming human.
If I am to agree or disagree on what you said, I need to understand what you said.
You said... "we become children of God with His divine nature."
I don't understand 1) why you say we, and 2) why you believe that, or what you mean by "children of God with His divine nature".
Nor am I sure what you mean by... "Not all of his power like God, but with the nature of Christ while He was on earth."
I can tell you what scriptural statements I agree with... if you just cite them.
I agree with this.
Jesus asked the Father to return His glory that He had before when He was with God before becoming human.
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
That's scripture.
Would you mind sharing what you learned... if you can?
When I was a young man, I wanted to understand the Bible.
I would read it, but I couldn't grasp much about its message.
That's the main reason why I left the 'church' I grew up in, because I was not getting anything out of it.
However, I never stopped reading the Bible.
I didn't realize I had a thirst for the truth, but God noticed. He saw that my heart yearned for the truth.
That's when I got the opportunity to be like the Ethiopian Eunuch in Chapter 8 of Acts. God sent one of his witnesses to teach me, and help me understand things I had not been taught from scripture.
It was this Bible education that helped me to understand, among other things, scriptures such as Matthew 7:13-23; Acts 20:30; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; 2 Timothy 4:2-5, which helped me to appreciate that it's important to identify Jesus' body - the Christian congregation, because not every claim of Christianity demonstrates what Jesus said would identify his followers.
So, since then, I have been able to avoid having an experienced like yours.
I have actually been privileged to help others to be aware of this too.
It's been nearly three decades, I have had this joy.
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Just one thing for the moment...
In that first UPC (United Pentecostal Church) assembly it was like a dream. I thought that everyone there was nigh onto perfect already, but that was my dream, not God's (except that He likely put it into my head. Why?)!
The "perfect" members quickly even to my naive eyes began to show their true colors. They were not complete devils, but neither would anyone want to describe them as heavenly angels.
I was comparing them in my mind with what I remembered from my active Catholic days and what I saw on active duty in the U.S. Army. These people were for certain, so much better in dress, in manners, in attitude and I was so... very, very wrong. I was looking to see black and white contrasts like in the old western movies and TV shows, where the bad guys wore black hats and the good guys, white ones. People have never been like that... at least not in my own experience. I wanted them to be with me ending up as one of the "good" guys.
Jesus in the flesh would have been, one of the good guys that is, and I suspect that someone, who has overcome the world like Jesus did would be. To my knowledge I have not met such an overcomer, although a few have come close. I have met Jesus, but not in the flesh.
That is one of the things I learned and built on thereafter...
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
God is Spirit and has these attributes.
Omnipresent - can be everywhere at once.
Omnipotent - is all powerful
Omniscient - is all knowing
Those are the "glories" Jesus first emptied Himself of when He was the Word of God to become born as a human baby, and then after his ministry was completed and about to die, He asked the Father for those back. John 17: 5 "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."
2 Peter 1:2-4
2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Grace has been interpreted as unmerited favor and has taken on a whole false doctrine of God turning a blind eye to our sin. That is false. God hates sin, and sin is what corrupted mankind through Adam's sin. Jesus came to earth to cure that problem by becoming the second Adam. Through His sinlessness as a man Jesus destroyed the works of Satan started from the devil's encounter with Adam and Eve.
1 John 3:1-9
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
Romans 5:15-19
"15 For if by the one man’s (Adam's) offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous."
According to 1 John 3 that is written in contrasts between Jesus and the devil, the correct way to read 1 John 1 is the contrast of light of God vs. the darkness of Satan that is in all of us before we confess our sin and are cleansed of all unrighteousness, having it taken away (not merely covered) by the cleansing light of God.
1 John 1:
vs. 5 God is light
vs. 6 if you walk in darkness (no indwelling God)
vs. 7 if you walk in the light as Jesus is in the light (has indwelling God)
vs. 8 if you are still a sinner but say you are without sin, (no indwelling God) (we are only without sin once cleansed and it is taken away by Christ)
vs. 9 if you confess your sin He cleanses us of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS to be without sin. (same as Acts 2:38 to receive Holy Spirit)
vs. 10 if you say you were born without sin (no indwelling God)
1 John 5:18
18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
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