What is Holy Spirit?

[The Disciple John]

When did you give your life to Jesus?

Nearly three decades ago, I dedicated my life to God, and was baptized in water.

But if you really aren't born again as you stated it means you haven't.

Says Pearl.
I really am not interested in what Pearl believes, unless Pearl can show me from the scriptures. If Pearl wants to believe that cows fly, that's Pearl's prerogative.
I am interested in what the Bible says, and it nowhere denies dedication and water baptism, as allowing one to have a relationship with God.

I know the exact date I became a Christian - it's my second birthday when I was born of the Spirit and became part of God's family. Knowing scripture is no good to you unless you know Jesus.

True.
Thinking you know Jesus when he doesn't know you, is no good.
Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not every one that saith unto Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that Day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name, and in Thy name have cast out devils, and in Thy name done many wonderful works?’
23 And then will I profess unto them, ‘I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.’

I read in another post that you wanted to be asked why you say you aren't born again, well I'm asking you now. Why do you say you aren't born again?

Thank you, Pearl.
I'm new, so I am not yet familiar with all the features on the forums.
I saw something about writing blogs. I would prefer to put it where it can be accessed from other threads, Rather than having to repeat, in the event it was called for.
Are you able to point me in the right direction regarding writing a blog? Thanks.

 

[The Disciple John]

Are we not talking about many of those in the world known as Christendom and their ATs [Absolute Truths]?

I do not press people to change to what I believe. I am willing to go deeper on a subject when a person is not too set in his own or his church's ATs. I don't hide my own beliefs but surprisingly few really want to hear the details when they differ significantly from where they are. A few want to convert me and press me.

I do not belong to any well-known denomination. For the past three years I have not had a home church. Are you interested in details?

I don't mind listening, but I hope you can be fair, and answer these questions for me first. Okay?
I need you to answer after reading each scripture with each question.

• Do you believe Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation - the body - which he started. Acts 2
• Do you believe this body still exists, and is used by Jesus to carry out the purpose on earth for which he formed it? Acts 1:7, 8; Matthew 24:14
• Do you believe Christ still directs this body today? Matthew 24:45
• Do you believe that Jesus expects those who would follow him to be in association with that body, and be obedient to those appointed to take the lead? Hebrews 13:17
• Do you believe these words of Jesus are true, even today? John 13:35

That's it.

 

[amadeus]

I don't mind listening, but I hope you can be fair, and answer these questions for me first. Okay?
I need you to answer after reading each scripture with each question.

• Do you believe Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation - the body - which he started. Acts 2

Yes, Jesus is the Head of the Body.

• Do you believe this body still exists, and is used by Jesus to carry out the purpose on earth for which he formed it? Acts 1:7, 8; Matthew 24:14

Yes!

• Do you believe Christ still directs this body today? Matthew 24:45

Yes, in accord with what Jeremiah wrote, it is not in man walks to direct his own steps. [Jer 10:23]

• Do you believe that Jesus expects those who would follow him to be in association with that body, and be obedient to those appointed to take the lead? Hebrews 13:17

Yes.

• Do you believe these words of Jesus are true, even today? John 13:35

Still true!

 

[The Disciple John]

I'm sure you do; but it isn't reading or knowing your bible that is the main thing. The main thing is Jesus and to know him in a personal way not just know about him from what we read in scriptures even though that is good. To repent and seek God's forgiveness and turn away from the sin that separates us from God. Having that personal relationship with Jesus through the Holy Spirit is what we should be looking for so that he is our brother and we are heirs with Him in the kingdom.
Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

You believe Jesus Christ is God... that God sent himself as the son of the father - John 3:16; John 6:40, and that God worships himself. - Revelation 3:12, 13; Ephesians 1:3

I don't believe that. The father - Jehovah God - is the most important person,
John 10:29 - My Father, who gave them to Me, is greater than all
John 14:28 - I go unto the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I

...and having a relationship with Jehovah God, is the most important thing - Matthew 22:37-40. To be his children, and be a family, with his begotten sons - including primarily Jesus. Ephesians 1:3-11

This is what Jesus taught.
Matthew 10:32, 33; Matthew 11:27; Matthew 12:50; Matthew 20:23; Matthew 26:38, 39; Luke 10:22; John 5:17; John 5:36-38

John 5:43 I have come in My Father’s name
John 8:49 I honor My Father, and ye do dishonor Me
John 10:18 This commandment have I received from My Father
John 10:25 The works that I do in My Father’s name
John 15:1 I am the true vine, and My Father is the cultivator
John 15:15 all things that I have heard of My Father, I have made known unto you
John 15:23 He that hateth Me hateth My Father also.
John 15:24 ...now they have both seen and hated both Me and My Father
John 20:17 ‘I ascend unto My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’
Revelation 2:27 I have received from My Father.
Revelation 3:2 I have found no works of thine perfected before my God.
Revelation 3:5 I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels
Revelation 3:12, 13
12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the [h]temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name. 13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

These scriptures surely do not say, nor indicate that Jesus is God.

 

[The Disciple John]

Yes, Jesus is the Head of the Body.
Yes!
Yes, in accord with what Jeremiah wrote, it is not in man walks to direct his own steps. [Jer 10:23]

Yes.
Still true!

Thank you. I am all ears. :) That means I am listening... in case it's a foreign language to you.

 

[amadeus]

Thank you. I am all ears. :) That means I am listening... in case it's a foreign language to you.

You come here on us strangely... and that is not a criticism. It is late for me, so I will only say a few words before retiring for the night.

Having started out a devout Catholic, I went to backslid Catholic after high school and remained nothing then really in God until age 32. That was in 1976. I was baptized in water in Jesus name and 6 weeks later I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and a gift of speaking in other tongues. I began to read a Bible for the first time in my life.

I followed the way of Oneness Jesus Only for 11 years. From 1987 I traveled a long way to where I am in God today with changes made by Him.

Give God the glory!

 

[The Disciple John]

You come here on us strangely... and that is not a criticism. It is late for me, so I will only say a few words before retiring for the night.

Having started out a devout Catholic, I went to backslid Catholic after high school and remained nothing then really in God until age 32. That was in 1976. I was baptized in water in Jesus name and 6 weeks later I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and a gift of speaking in other tongues. I began to read a Bible for the first time in my life.

I followed the way of Oneness Jesus Only for 11 years. From 1987 I traveled a long way to where I am in God today with changes made by Him.

Give God the glory!

That was wayyyyyyy shorter than I expected. Thanks for sharing. :)
Tell me. Is there any difference between your experience, and the experience of the guy in the chariot here Acts 8:26-39, or the family here Acts 10:30-48, keeping in mind Matthew 28:19, 20?

 

[Pearl]

You come here on us strangely... and that is not a criticism. It is late for me, so I will only say a few words before retiring for the night.

Having started out a devout Catholic, I went to backslid Catholic after high school and remained nothing then really in God until age 32. That was in 1976. I was baptized in water in Jesus name and 6 weeks later I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost and a gift of speaking in other tongues. I began to read a Bible for the first time in my life.

I followed the way of Oneness Jesus Only for 11 years. From 1987 I traveled a long way to where I am in God today with changes made by Him.

Give God the glory!

Good testimony.

 

[Pearl]

Are you able to point me in the right direction regarding writing a blog? Thanks.

You just click on 'BLOGS' at the top of the page and then 'Create blog'.

 

[amadeus]

That was wayyyyyyy shorter than I expected. Thanks for sharing. :)
Tell me. Is there any difference between your experience, and the experience of the guy in the chariot here Acts 8:26-39, or the family here Acts 10:30-48, keeping in mind Matthew 28:19, 20?

Difference? The eunuch and Cornelius were both gentiles in the flesh, which perhaps I also was when I came to God at that time. My time as men measure time was about 2000 years later, but what is time to God? Are we not to become as He is? So then will time be for us no more?

I have grown in the years since my experience with God. Did they grow? The scripture does not give us their story after the initial experience, but hopefully they also continued to grow closer to God.

 

[The Disciple John]

Difference? The eunuch and Cornelius were both gentiles in the flesh, which perhaps I also was when I came to God at that time. My time as men measure time was about 2000 years later, but what is time to God? Are we not to become as He is? So then will time be for us no more?

I have grown in the years since my experience with God. Did they grow? The scripture does not give us their story after the initial experience, but hopefully they also continued to grow closer to God.

Maybe you didn't understand what I was asking. Let me rephrase it, sorry.

Matthew 28:19, 20
19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Acts 8
Background
Due to persecution, many of the disciples scattered.
4 They therefore that were scattered abroad went about preaching the word. 5 And Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and proclaimed unto them the Christ.
12 But when they believed Philip preaching good tidings concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
25 They therefore, when they had testified and spoken the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel to many villages of the Samaritans.

Experience
26 But an angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza: the same is desert. 27 And he arose and went: and behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was over all her treasure, who had come to Jerusalem to worship; 28 and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah. 29 And the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some one shall guide me? And he besought Philip to come up and sit with him.
35 And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this scripture, preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on the way, they came unto a certain water; and the eunuch saith, Behold, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39 And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip; and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 10
Likely you know the experience of Cornelius and his household.
Experience
Cornelius, was directed by the spirit to seek out Peter - one of Jesus followers who was engaged in spreading the good news.
Peter came to Cornelius' home where his family had been gathered, to listen to all the things Peter would say.
33 Forthwith therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore we are all here present in the sight of God, to hear all things that have been commanded thee of the Lord.

Peter started to teach them.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

I was asking if your experience was the same, in that you were taught by Jesus' followers, as the Eunuch and Cornelius and his household were, and baptized on this basis.
Sort of like what is described at Romans 10:13-15
13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? even as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that bring glad tidings of good things!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I did read the verses, as they are writen, and not interpreted by men. That's why I don't believe what you interpreted them to mean.

Acts 5:3, 4
3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 While it remained, was it not thine own? And after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? Why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.”
Acts 5:9
9 Then Peter said unto her, “How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? Behold, the feet of those who have buried thy husband are at the door and shall carry thee out.”

2 Corinthians 3:16-17
Parallel Verses
International Standard Version
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Lord's Spirit is, there is freedom.
American Standard Version
Now the Lord is the Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

God is spirit. Yes?
God has spirit. Yes, or No?

To lie to the Holy Spirit is to lie to God!

And now you will have to think for yourself! 2 Cor. 3: 16-17 has the definite article which can be either "the" or "that". that means that God is just not a Spirit but is THE Spirit. That means a specific spirit! which is the Holy Spirit!

 

[amadeus]

Maybe you didn't understand what I was asking. Let me rephrase it, sorry.

No, I did not understand your question. Thanks for the clarification.

I was asking if your experience was the same, in that you were taught by Jesus' followers, as the Eunuch and Cornelius and his household were, and baptized on this basis.

At the first, a very good brother we had known for a couple of years brought me and my family to a church house near where we lived. The brother had served God all of his life while when we met him and his family, my wife and I were living for the devil and ourselves very much after the flesh.

Our marriage was near to its final end... and even the love both of us had for our two young children could not save it. When we came to God in 1976, both our marriage and our souls were saved from the hell we were going though...

In that church we attended a Bible study for new converts and learned to read our Bibles and began to try to live for God. The teaching was unlike anything we had ever received as Catholics. But... the deeper things that came to us continued to be through that black family, who had brought us to that church in the first place. They did not attend that church and lived too far away for us to attend with them.

Sort of like what is described at Romans 10:13-15
13 for, Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 and how shall they preach, except they be sent? even as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that bring glad tidings
of good things!

At first, we thought those church members had beautiful feet and they really did even though as it turned out, it was perhaps the worst non-Catholic church we were ever to attend. [We only learned that later.]

Our really called by God, preachers and teachers, the ones God used to really establish us on the road toward Him, was that black brother and his wife. God truly works in strange and mysterious ways!

 

[The Disciple John]

No, I did not understand your question. Thanks for the clarification.

At the first, a very good brother we had known for a couple of years brought me and my family to a church house near where we lived. The brother had served God all of his life while when we met him and his family, my wife and I were living for the devil and ourselves very much after the flesh.

Our marriage was near to its final end... and even the love both of us had for our two young children could not save it. When we came to God in 1976, both our marriage and our souls were saved from the hell we were going though...

In that church we attended a Bible study for new converts and learned to read our Bibles and began to try to live for God. The teaching was unlike anything we had ever received as Catholics. But... the deeper things that came to us continued to be through that black family, who had brought us to that church in the first place. They did not attend that church and lived too far away for us to attend with them.

At first, we thought those church members had beautiful feet and they really did even though as it turned out, it was perhaps the worst non-Catholic church we were ever to attend. [We only learned that later.]

Our really called by God, preachers and teachers, the ones God used to really establish on the road toward Him, was that black brother and his wife. God truly works in strange and mysterious ways!

Well thanks.
I'm glad to hear that you were able to save your marriage. Shows there is power in applying God's word. :)

You said it was the "worst non-Catholic church we were ever to attend".
Do you mind sharing why you felt that way?

To all of my questions, you responded in the affirmative. Which of those would you say you can apply to that "worst non-Catholic church we were ever to attend"?

• Jesus is its head.
• They were carrying out the purpose for which God formed the Christian congregation.
• Christ is directing it.
• You should be in association with it, and be obedient to those taking the lead.
• They have love among themselves.

I have heard that expression before - God works in mysterious ways, but I haven't come across it in scripture.
Where do you think people got it from?
Do you think that saying is compatible with John 17:3?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is no place in the text that reads you MUST be born again of the Spirit.
The text reads as I quoted.

Here is the test you quoted. Note the red.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. 8 The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't know why you are saying this, because I don't know whom you are referring to.
There is nothing in the text, nor in anything I wrote that puts emphasis on one or the other.
There is also nothing in the texts, nor in anything I wrote that separate one from the other, so that anyone is clueless to being baptized in the Spirit.
Jesus specifically said, one must be born of water and spirit. That's what is meant by born again.
Your post, however 1stCenturyLady, has emphasis on one, and minimizes the other to something that every living being naturally has - birth. Not something they must do.
Jesus said one must be born of water and spirit.
There is no need to say one must breath. To think that Jesus is saying one must come out from between their mothers legs, and not be surgically removed... Well... That's all I can say.

I really don't think you know what Jesus means by "Spirit." We MUST be born of the HOLY SPIRIT.

We must be born of the HOLY Spirit. Acts of the Apostles 1:8, Romans 8:9; 1 John 3:9; 1 John 5:18

 

[amadeus]

Well thanks.
I'm glad to hear that you were able to save your marriage. Shows there is power in applying God's word. :)

You said it was the "worst non-Catholic church we were ever to attend".
Do you mind sharing why you felt that way?

The whole answer extends over the approximately 5 years we attended there. It started here:

Our first repentance occurred on Jan 15, 1976, and we were baptized in water the next day. On Jan 17 my wife received the baptism of the Holy Ghost with a gift of tongues, but I was left on the outside but quite hungry.

We became regular church goers never missing. We joined their new converts class and began for the first time in our lives to read the Bible.

I would go home crying after each service because I had not received what my wife did. I wanted it. I was not even sure what it was, but she bubbled and I knew it was a good thing. She was unable to explain it to me.

More than once in the days and weeks ahead our new pastor would speak to me in the pew from the platform in front of the whole congregation saying: "Brother J., if you don't receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues you are going to hell". [This hurt me, and it was really the beginning of the end for us in that church, but not yet.] The only thing I knew about God and was what the little I remembered from Catholicism and now the little I had learned so far in that assembly and from my previously mentioned friend. Bible reading was a brand new thing so I understood little or nothing from there. But... I knew why there was no Holy Ghost yet for me. I could change it, but it was a hard decision.

On March 6 of 1976 I went to church resolved to be baptized in the Holy Ghost. I would give up my job, the government job that I loved too much to be able to please God. That was the day and the hour for me. I was standing in prayer and worshipping God. I had been doing that every time I went to church so this time no one immediately joined me to offer encouragement.. not one man. It was customary for the women to pray with the women and for the men pray with the men. I was taking too long in my praying and I guess they all gave up on me. No one came to stand beside me and pray with me initially, but then...

My wife saw me praying alone in front of pews and below the platform that time and she let a little of her temper take hold of her as she moved forward and took my hand to pray with me. My eyes were closed so I did not see or understand all of this until she told me later.

Somewhere along there once she was with me, I reached out and touched God and told Him that my job was in His hands, and I was in His hands. I surrendered truly!

What I felt then was a warmth that moved through my entire body from head to foot filling me completely. My mouth which had been praising God and talking to God began to speak words which were not in the three languages I knew. They were of God and from God... That was really the beginning and still a long way from the end.

That rebuke from that first pastor was painful but then later there was this...?

I never questioned my pastor's authority because I did not know at the time what authority he had. I was interested in learning and asked him privately to explain what the basis for his authority as pastor was. I had only been in his congregation for a few weeks at that time. I expected and hoped to receive an answer from scripture. Instead, He apparently not understanding what it was I wanted didn't answer me at all and left the room. It was just about time for church service to start so I went and rejoined my wife sitting in a pew in the sanctuary.

Shortly after the start of the service the pastor went to the podium and speaking loudly through the microphone, before the entire congregation, rebuked me saying that I had questioned his authority. I was completely stunned as was my wife for I had already explained to her what had occurred just few minutes earlier.

Still, I might have thought that the man had simply misunderstood me. That was not the case as I discovered. I have never been a person easily angered and I did not get angry then, although I was greatly disappointed, but I cannot say the same for my wife. She was angry!

To all of my questions, you responded in the affirmative. Which of those would you say you can apply to that "worst non-Catholic church we were ever to attend"?

Jesus is its head

Jesus was not the Head of that church but I did not understand that at the time. The Bible was a foreign thing to me still although I was beginning to read it.

They were carrying out the purpose for which God formed the Christian congregation.

A few members certainly were striving to work at that purpose. I will keep my hands and tongue off of the pastor on this point.

Christ is directing it.

I do not believe that he was.

You should be in association with it, and be obedient to those taking the lead.

We were really trying to do that. My wife being very independent with no real parents after age 8, at times wanted to attack the man [the pastor] both verbally and physically, restrained herself.

They have love among themselves.

Some of them certainly did and a few of them tried to include us.

However, most of these people had sold their homes in the Los Angeles area and moved to the San Francisco Bay area [a nearly 400 mile relocation] at the request of this pastor. They did not do that because they really knew God... I think I know why they did but I won't speculate.

I have heard that expression before - God works in mysterious ways, but I haven't come across it in scripture.
Where do you think people got it from?
Do you think that saying is compatible with John 17:3?

For me it would be compatible with the following:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly;..." I Cor 13:12

 

[The Disciple John]

Here is the test you quoted. Note the red.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. 8 The wind bloweth where it will, and thou hearest the voice thereof, but knowest not whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Thank you.
Born of the spirit. Not born again of the spirit.
Would you say born again of water? Right.
Jesus said born again = born of water and the spirit.
So we can say born again, of water and spirit.

 

[The Disciple John]

I really don't think you know what Jesus means by "Spirit." We MUST be born of the HOLY SPIRIT.

We must be born of the HOLY Spirit. Acts of the Apostles 1:8, Romans 8:9; 1 John 3:9; 1 John 5:18

Why would you think that I don't know Jesus is referring to holy spirit?

 

[The Disciple John]

The whole answer extends over the approximately 5 years we attended there. It started here:

Our first repentance occurred on Jan 15, 1976, and we were baptized in water the next day. On Jan 17 my wife received the baptism of the Holy Ghost with a gift of tongues, but I was left on the outside but quite hungry.

We became regular church goers never missing. We joined their new converts class and began for the first time in our lives to read the Bible.

I would go home crying after each service because I had not received what my wife did. I wanted it. I was not even sure what it was, but she bubbled and I knew it was a good thing. She was unable to explain it to me.

More than once in the days and weeks ahead our new pastor would speak to me in the pew from the platform in front of the whole congregation saying: "Brother J., if you don't receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues you are going to hell". [This hurt me, and it was really the beginning of the end for us in that church, but not yet.] The only thing I knew about God and was what the little I remembered from Catholicism and now the little I had learned so far in that assembly and from my previously mentioned friend. Bible reading was a brand new thing so I understood little or nothing from there. But... I knew why there was no Holy Ghost yet for me. I could change it, but it was a hard decision.

Wow.
I heard this before.
Man, I'm sorry you went through that, but maybe you got something from it.

On March 6 of 1976 I went to church resolved to be baptized in the Holy Ghost. I would give up my job, the government job that I loved too much to be able to please God. That was the day and the hour for me. I was standing in prayer and worshipping God. I had been doing that every time I went to church so this time no one immediately joined me to offer encouragement.. not one man. It was customary for the women to pray with the women and for the men pray with the men. I was taking too long in my praying and I guess they all gave up on me. No one came to stand beside me and pray with me initially, but then...

My wife saw me praying alone in front of pews and below the platform that time and she let a little of her temper take hold of her as she moved forward and took my hand to pray with me. My eyes were closed so I did not see or understand all of this until she told me later.

Somewhere along there once she was with me, I reached out and touched God and told Him that my job was in His hands, and I was in His hands. I surrendered truly!

What I felt then was a warmth that moved through my entire body from head to foot filling me completely. My mouth which had been praising God and talking to God began to speak words which were not in the three languages I knew. They were of God and from God... That was really the beginning and still a long way from the end.

That rebuke from that first pastor was painful but then later there was this...?

I never questioned my pastor's authority because I did not know at the time what authority he had. I was interested in learning and asked him privately to explain what the basis for his authority as pastor was. I had only been in his congregation for a few weeks at that time. I expected and hoped to receive an answer from scripture. Instead, He apparently not understanding what it was I wanted didn't answer me at all and left the room. It was just about time for church service to start so I went and rejoined my wife sitting in a pew in the sanctuary.

Shortly after the start of the service the pastor went to the podium and speaking loudly through the microphone, before the entire congregation, rebuked me saying that I had questioned his authority. I was completely stunned as was my wife for I had already explained to her what had occurred just few minutes earlier.

Still, I might have thought that the man had simply misunderstood me. That was not the case as I discovered. I have never been a person easily angered and I did not get angry then, although I was greatly disappointed, but I cannot say the same for my wife. She was angry!

Wow. I can imagine.
That's so cold and unloving.
It's no wonder many left these churches, and became Atheists.
Things like that do turn people off.
I admire your sincerity. I know there are many people like yourself, and I am glad to meet you.
I appreciate you sharing that experience.

Jesus was not the Head of that church but I did not understand that at the time. The Bible was a foreign thing to me still although I was beginning to read it.

I would agree.

A few members certainly were striving to work at that purpose. I will keep my hands and tongue off of the pastor on this point.

Yes, there are many sincere persons like yourself, in these churches, who are searching for God. Reminds me of Jeremiah 23.

I do not believe that he was.

We were really trying to do that. My wife being very independent with no real parents after age 8, at times wanted to attack the man [the pastor] both verbally and physically, restrained herself.

Yes, self control is an asset of the fruitage of God's spirit. Galatians 5:22, 23
Well you did say you dont think they are the body of Christ, and he is directing it, so there is no reason for associating with it.
Actually, the scriptures warn that bad association spoil useful habits. You don't want to become that unloving.
That's not demonstrating the fruitage of the spirit.

Some of them certainly did and a few of them tried to include us.

However, most of these people had sold their homes in the Los Angeles area and moved to the San Francisco Bay area [a nearly 400 mile relocation] at the request of this pastor. They did not do that because they really knew God... I think I know why they did but I won't speculate.

For me it would be compatible with the following:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly;..." I Cor 13:12

That's us though. Not God.
As the scriptures show, God reveals things in his own time, and gradually, but we get to know him, and his works.
That's why we have the scriptures.

In fact, your expectations were correct, where you said, I expected and hoped to receive an answer from scripture.
That's what Jesus expects of his followers too - to give answers from scripture. He did, throughout his life on earth.
Remember that Phillip explained the scriptures, which the Eunuch was reading.

I have to go now, but there is more I would like to say on this post.
Talk to you later.