What does it mean to be Under the Law?

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Jack

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Can you see the enemy at play...he’s so cunning and has us arguing before we even know it...
Actually it's quite simple. Christians are not under the Law! We have the New Covenant given to us by the Blood of Jesus!
 

quietthinker

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Prove my "blatant inconsistencies"! You're the one who accused Jesus and Moses and others of being wrong about the Genesis Flood and burning Sodom alive, "MAKING THEM an EXAMPLE!
Vision is for the seeing, Jack!
 

Ritajanice

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Actually it's quite simple. Christians are not under the Law! We have the New Covenant given to us by the Blood of Jesus!
Can you see the enemy at play, with all the arguing that we have been doing lately.?

I’m not referring to the law or the New Covenant...I’m referring to the arguing and the way we address each other.

Let’s all try and ask God to help us address each other with dignity and respect.

That is what I believe was placed on my heart to post....no further comment to you Jack....
 

Jack

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Can you see the enemy at play, with all the arguing that we have been doing lately.?

I’m not referring to the law or the New Covenant...I’m referring to the arguing and the way we address each other.

Let’s all try and ask God to help us address each other with dignity and respect.

That is what I believe was placed on my heart to post....no further comment to you Jack....
It's called defending the Bible. That's what Christians do.
 

Ritajanice

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Vision is for the seeing,
Amen!....but remember, we are all at different levels of maturity and spiritual growth.

I remained a baby in Christ for many, many years...only the Spirit can grow me, as he’s at work in my heart/ spirit all day every day...we are forever growing and maturing in Christ.

Ignore the baby..Let’s be mature in Christ.....it’s a wonderful freedom when we grow up...LOL.

The old man wants to react.....the new man acts....

Flesh verses Spirit....we know that the Spirit will always prevail eventually....unless of course they aren’t in Christ.
 
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Jack

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Amen!....but remember, we are all at different levels of maturity and spiritual growth.

I remained a baby in Christ for many, many years...only the Spirit can grow me, as he’s at work in my heart/ spirit all day every day...we are forever growing and maturing in Christ.

Ignore the baby..Let’s be mature in Christ.....it’s a wonderful freedom when we grow up...LOL.
So you're defending someone who says Jesus is wrong! See how God's Word reveals what's in your heart!

Hebrews 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
 
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Ritajanice

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God searches our hearts and knows what’s in our hearts, more than we know.

Seek God out with all of your heart ,mind and soul for there is where you will find him.

I crave to know the Spirit of God more and more in my heart....he’s the God of Love who indwells his children’s heart/ spirit......what a Honour and Privilege to know the Spirit/ Love Of God in our hearts.....

Oh to walk and talk just like Jesus......what a wonderful representation he was .....Praise God for Jesus.

We speak from the heart of God.......we can still speak from that horrible old man.....who still at times wants to rise up....just my thoughts..
 

Jack

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God searches our hearts and knows what’s in our hearts, more than we know.

Seek God out with all of your heart ,mind and soul for there is where you will find him.

I crave to know the Spirit of God more and more in my heart....he’s the God of Love who indwells his children’s heart/ spirit......what a Honour and Privilege to know the Spirit/ Love Of God in our hearts.....

Oh to walk and talk just like Jesus......what a wonderful representation he was .....Praise God for Jesus.

We speak from the heart of God.......we can still speak from that horrible old man.....who still at times wants to rise up....just my thoughts..
ONLY those who defend the Bible are seeking God!
 

Ritajanice

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Gods Character Does Not Need Defending...His inspired word can be twisted and manipulated by men/ woman ,to say what they want it to say.........God is a ........”.Living Spirit”........, His will be done, nothing or no one can stop the will of God on earth and in Heaven.

We seek more of God’s heart, when our spirit becomes Born Of God/ regenerated/ Born Again/ Born Again Of imperishable/ incorruptible seed/ Born of the Spirit....as we are his spirit children ...he is our Spirit Father God..
Hence we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.

Knowing God in our heart/ spirit is the biggest Honour/ Privilege one can receive....we grow in spiritual knowledge and we grow up to be like Christ...mind Blowing.....remember we have that new heart/ and Spirit within, the Spirit of Christ.



Short commentary.

The Bible says in 2 Peter 3:15, “always be ready to give a defense of the faith that is in you.”This looks as if it is part of the believer's responsibility to worry more about defending what they believe rather than defending God's character.

deuteronomy4-29.jpg
 
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Lambano

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What does it mean to be Under the Law?​

Have you ever read any books by Jewish authors or visited any Jewish websites to understand what "being under Torah" means to them? I found Rabbi Abraham Heschel's book God in Search of Man and Dr. Pamela Eisenbaum's book Saint Paul Was Not a Christian and the Chabad Lubavich site to helpful in giving a Jewish perspective.

Being "under Torah" to them means recognizing that they are members of God's people by His choice (i.e. by God's grace), and as such have an obligation to live a certain way that distinguishes them from the other nations.

Paul is articulating a vision of a people who are also God's people by God's grace and through trust in a very Jewish Messiah Jesus, but not under Torah. That begs the question, what are the obligations Messiah Jesus's people have? It looks like we're still trying to figure that one out 2000 years later.
 
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Pearl

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Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6).
All true but with the indwelling and help of the Holy Spirit we are God's work, it is He who changes us; we cannot change ourselves. Or at least not good enough for God. The only way we can meet his standard is to come to him through Jesus and let Him do the changing.
 
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Jack

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God searches our hearts and knows what’s in our hearts, more than we know.
Good point. That's Jesus!

Revelation 2:18-23 'These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: ...
23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
 

Ritajanice

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1 Corinthians 2
Berean Standard Bible Par ▾
Paul’s Message by the Spirit’s Power
1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. 3I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith would not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.
Spiritual Wisdom
(Ephesians 1:15–23)
6Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom—but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God,a which He destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9Rather, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no heart has imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love Him.”b
10But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God
. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him? So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.c
14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone’s judgment. 16“For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?”d But we have the mind of Christ.
 

Soyeong

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I would say that God has his own moral law?

God is Pure and Holy in Spirit....that to me makes him moral.....there is no sin to be found in Jesus.....Praise God for that....as Jesus also represented “ morals”.

In many of his parables close parableA story told by Jesus through which he teaches and illustrates moral lessons and principles., including the Sheep and Goats, Jesus teaches about what will happen at the end of time. All of humanity shall be judged on the way they have lived and how they have acted.

In fact Jesus is the perfect teacher to show us “ morals”...the Spirit shows and teaches me “ morals”.

I live by those morals.

Short commentary..

God approves of right actions because they are right and disapproves of wrong actions because they are wrong (moral theological objectivism, or objectivism). So, morality is independent of God's will; however, since God is omniscient He knows the moral laws, and because He's moral, He follows them.


Jesus replied: 37. “ 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” 38This is the great and first commandment. 39. The second [is] like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” 40On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be in God's likeness by being a doer of His character traits and His law is His instructions for how to do that. Jesus lived morally and he also lived in sinless obedience to God's law. Likewise, God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit. Everything in God's law is in regard to how to love Him and our neighbor.
 

Soyeong

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Actually it's quite simple. Christians are not under the Law! We have the New Covenant given to us by the Blood of Jesus!
God is sovereign, so we are under His law. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so if want nothing to do with being under God's law, then you want nothing to do with the New Covenant. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) while the way to reject everything that he accomplished is by returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from.

Exactly!

John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
The Greek does not contain the word "but". Rather, John 1:16-17 says grace upon grace, so it is speaking of one example of grace being added upon another. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so grace and truth came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching his followers of how to obey God's law by word and by example.

The Law preachers LOVE preaching it but don't obey the Law.
That's false, but even if I were actively trying to transgress God's as much as I could, then it would just mean that I would need to repent, not that I was wrong about the fact that following of God should walk in His way in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.
 

Ritajanice

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Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to be in God's likeness by being a doer of His character traits and His law is His instructions for how to do that. Jesus lived morally and he also lived in sinless obedience to God's law. Likewise, God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit. Everything in God's law is in regard to how to love Him and our neighbor.
We must be Born Again , ‘tis the Spirit who is at work in our hearts...we are helpless without the Spirit, who is maturing and growing us in our spirit to be more Christ like.

The fruit of the Spirit, comes from the fruit that we bear as we grow in our hearts/ spirit....this is not our fruit, it is the fruit of the Spirit, as he works in our hearts and softens our hearts, we will bear his fruit.

We surrender our will over to the Spirit Of Gods will....it gets easier as we grow in spiritual understanding and maturity.

Has taken many years for me to surrender my will over to Gods will...all part and parcel of growing in the Spirit of Christ.

Edit to add..I can’t love my neighbours as myself, without God’s Spirit softening and working in my heart to do so..The Spirit indwells my spirit/ heart, that is where he has taken up permanent residence.

Hence being Born Of The Spirit...Spirit gives birth to spirit.
 
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Soyeong

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All true but with the indwelling and help of the Holy Spirit we are God's work, it is He who changes us; we cannot change ourselves. Or at least not good enough for God. The only way we can meet his standard is to come to him through Jesus and let Him do the changing.
God did not give His law as instructions for how to change ourselves or for how to become good enough for Him, but as instructions for how to come to Him. It is contradictory to change ourselves by relying on God's instructions. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has nothing to do with trying to be good enough to earn our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works in obedience to His law as is part of His gift of salvation.
 

Pearl

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God did not give His law as instructions for how to change ourselves or for how to become good enough for Him, but as instructions for how to come to Him. It is contradictory to change ourselves by relying on God's instructions. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has nothing to do with trying to be good enough to earn our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works in obedience to His law as is part of His gift of salvation.
All nothing if we don't have the Holy spirit within us.
 
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