What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?

[Phoneman777]

I don't see Scripture saying that, nor do I recall SDAs believing that scenario, but could be wrong. What I see is Satan and his angels will not be wandering around on earth for a 1000 years. No, they will be chained in hell, and Christ will rule for 1000 years on earth from the holy city. After the 1000 years has ended, then Satan and his angels will be released and the war of Armageddon will commence. Chapters 19 and 20 seem to show the same event from two different perspectives. They are not sequential. Both show Christ reigning on earth over the nations for a thousand years, while Satan is chained.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

It's SDA doctrine. Paul says "for the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout" and the saints are "caught up to meet the Lord in the air" in the First Resurrection.

It also says "that Great Wicked" shall be destroyed "with the brightness of His coming" and obviously all those who have followed that Wickedness and when the see the Lamb coming, they will flee to the rocks and mountains while the saints are saying, "Lo, this is our God. We have waited for Him".

The dead "lived not until the thousand years are finished" when they will come up in the Second Resurrection.

So, are we going to hover in the clouds for a thousand years? Or does the Bible say Jesus is coming back to "receive you to Myself, that where I am (that is, the place He'd gone to prepare places for us) there may ye be also"? Yes, Jesus is coming back to gather us and we will journey to heaven for a thousand years while the wicked all drop dead all over the Earth and thus Satan will be chained...with literal chains?...like the ones that the demonic of Gadara easily broke? No, you can't "chain" the devil or the demons, but the "chains" with which they'll be bound are "chains of circumstance" - the Earth will revert back to the "abussos" which means "without form and void", but for some silly reason the KJV translators went of the deep end with "bottomless pit", but it's identical to "without form and void" and it is on this destroyed, dark, desolate, empty Earth they will remain with no one to tempt, no creatures to possess, and nothing to do but contemplate the fate that awaits them in the Lake of Fire.

 

[CharismaticLady]

"bottomless pit", but it's identical to "without form and void"

How is the Greek identical to the Hebrew. Explain further.

I'll talk to you later, I'm off to bed. :)

 

[Phoneman777]

How is the Greek identical to the Hebrew. Explain further.

I'll talk to you later, I'm off to bed. :)

Septagint OT. Goodnite!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Septagint OT. Goodnite!

Oh, okay. I've got one, I'll look it up, but I don't have an interlinear Septuagint.

 

[Bobby Jo]

So now people are ascribing the Septuagint as though it were equivalent to the original Masoretic Text, -- which is certainly ignorant, and possibly worse.

And these people are in a Christian Forum.
Bobby Jo

 

[Earburner]

In God's Eternity, there is no such thing as "a thousand years". Also, we have no reference to interpret "a thousand years" to be literal whatsoever!

However, we do have a reference that reveals an era where NO time is accounted for, and has no end, "except" for the reason of one thing, lack of FAITH.
2 Thes. 2:3.

"A thousand years" is symbolic of the Age of God's Grace. Please read and study, and please, "be not ignorant":

2 Peter 3[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day.
WHY?
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning His promise [of Salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Which is describing NOW, the Age of His Grace!
.
Now, let's examine verse 8.
"one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day."

If we all would stop and take moment, we would really understand how this verse opposes itself in our analytical minds.
We all can comprehend that God can view a thousand years as being one day.
But, for God to view one day as being a thousand years, it just doesn't quite register right in our minds.
Think on that for a minute, and you will see what I mean.

WHY?
The verse is not talking about literal time, but rather an unlimited amount of time, from the perspective of His Eternity, in which there is NO time!!

Did you know, that there is no time limit for the length of God's Grace, but rather there will be an event, that shall end His Age of Grace?
That event is: "a falling away". The lack of Faith on the earth. It is THEN that Jesus shall return.
It is the cause of it, and nothing else!!
2 Thes. 2:3; Luke 18:8.

Q. So in conclusion, what is the period of "a thousand years"?
A. It is symbolic of His Age of Grace NOW, in which we are NOW reigning with Him! Not over people, but rather FOR people!!
For them to come to repentance and be saved!!
Again, please see the latter part of 2 Peter 3:9

Rev. 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us (present tense, as in now) kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Heart2Soul]

In God's Eternity, there is no such thing as "a thousand years". Also, we have no reference to interpret "a thousand years" to be literal whatsoever!

However, we do have a reference that reveals an era where NO time is accounted for, and has no end, "except" for the reason of one thing, lack of FAITH.
2 Thes. 2:3.

"A thousand years" is symbolic of the Age of God's Grace. Please read and study, and please, "be not ignorant":

2 Peter 3[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day.
WHY?
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning His promise [of Salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Which is describing NOW, the Age of His Grace!
.
Now, let's examine verse 8.
"one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day."

If we all would stop and take moment, we would really understand how this verse opposes itself in our analytical minds.
We all can comprehend that God can view a thousand years as being one day.
But, for God to view one day as being a thousand years, it just doesn't quite register right in our minds.
Think on that for a minute, and you will see what I mean.

WHY?
The verse is not talking about literal time, but rather an unlimited amount of time, from the perspective of His Eternity, in which there is NO time!!

Did you know, that there is no time limit for the length of God's Grace, but rather there will be an event, that shall end His Age of Grace?
That event is: "a falling away". The lack of Faith on the earth. It is THEN that Jesus shall return.
It is the cause of it, and nothing else!!
2 Thes. 2:3; Luke 18:8.

Q. So in conclusion, what is the period of "a thousand years"?
A. It is symbolic of His Age of Grace NOW, in which we are NOW reigning with Him! Not over people, but rather FOR people!!
For them to come to repentance and be saved!!
Again, please see the latter part of 2 Peter 3:9

Rev. 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us (present tense, as in now) kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Interesting and I agree that time did not exist in a measurable form prior to the 4th day of creation.
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - King James Version
Verse 14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the day from the night: and let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.

Here is where God specifically designated a measurable form of time.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, that's true :) but prophetic symbolism tells us that God sometimes makes "each day for a year". And the way to make the 2,300 Days pertain to "the time of the end" is to make them "each day for a year". If they expired with your Jewish insurrection theory, what possibly could they have to do with the time of the end?

Remember, every single one of Daniel's visions starts in his day and proceeds to stretch down to the end of time...but somehow the vision of Daniel 8 gets stuck in the eschatological mud and lost somewhere 2nd century B.C.? Not possible.

Wrong! Not to the the of time, but rather "the last end of the indignation" against Israel, which is who the 2300 day prophecy is applied to, having to do with Antiochus Epiphanes, in the latter time of the 3rd Beast.
Daniel 8:19-26
[19] And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the *time appointed the end shall be. (* the 2300 days).

 

[Earburner]

Interesting and I agree that time did not exist in a measurable form prior to the 4th day of creation.
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - King James Version
Verse 14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the day from the night: and let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.

Here is where God specifically designated a measurable form of time.

God's Eternity is NOT dictated to Him, by how many rotations of the earth, or revolutions around the Sun.
IOWS, He doesn't live by any measure "time", but we do, because in our flesh, we have an END. He doesn't have an end, nor does He have a beginning.

 

[Earburner]

Correction to Phoneman:
I meant to say- Not to the end of time, but rather...

 

[Bobby Jo]

Interesting and I agree that time did not exist in a measurable form prior to the 4th day of creation.
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1 - King James Version
Verse 14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven, to divide the day from the night: and let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.

Here is where God specifically designated a measurable form of time.

Actually LIGHT was one of the FIRST things GOD created, but I would propose that EACH DAY is an "era" (or "phase") with it's own increment of development:

Day 1: GOD created the heavens and the earth, and created light-- dividing the day from the night.
Day 2: GOD created the atmosphere.
Day 3: GOD created dry land and vegetation.
Day 4: GOD created the starts and the moon.
Day 5: GOD created the fish and birds.
Day 6: GOD created the beasts, and man.​

And where the church argues against evolution, and DNA agrees, -- I would argue that GOD used a progression of creation which HE ordained in HIS perfect plan in which each creature was inspired according to their own unique purpose.

But we still had light on Day #1, -- not Day #4.


And of course, Adam and Eve's sin was not eating an apple from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". But you won't find the truth from any pulpit I'm familiar with ...


But if you're ever interested in the "dinosaur" era versus the "man" era, you might be interested in researching the Ica burial stones which substantiate other evidence that dinosaurs and man co-existed. :)

Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

Actually LIGHT was one of the FIRST things GOD created, but I would propose that EACH DAY is an "era" (or "phase") with it's own increment of development:

Day 1: GOD created the heavens and the earth, and created light-- dividing the day from the night.
Day 2: GOD created the atmosphere.
Day 3: GOD created dry land and vegetation.
Day 4: GOD created the starts and the moon.
Day 5: GOD created the fish and birds.
Day 6: GOD created the beasts, and man.​

And where the church argues against evolution, and DNA agrees, -- I would argue that GOD used a progression of creation which HE ordained in HIS perfect plan in which each creature was inspired according to their own unique purpose.

But we still had light on Day #1, -- not Day #4.


And of course, Adam and Eve's sin was not eating an apple from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil". But you won't find the truth from any pulpit I'm familiar with ...


But if you're ever interested in the "dinosaur" era versus the "man" era, you might be interested in researching the Ica burial stones which substantiate other evidence that dinosaurs and man co-existed. :)

Bobby Jo

When God created the first "light" it is not a physical light but rather spiritual. Perhaps His presence...perhaps Jesus....(He is the light of the world). The darkness comprehended it not....but the first light established His power and reign over darkness. Jesus is called the Morning or Day star. Since the sun, moon and stars weren't created until the 4th day what would illuminate as light on the first? His Glory? In a physical perspective perhaps pure energy which is necessary for life.
I am going to bed...but something to consider.

 

[Bobby Jo]

When God created the first "light" it is not a physical light but rather spiritual. Perhaps ...

Yep, and perhaps NOT!

Have you joined @CharismaticLady, @Jay Ross, @Phoneman777, and whatever deluded people who post on this Forum and Topic?

Apparently so ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yep, and perhaps NOT!

Have you joined @CharismaticLady, @Jay Ross, @Phoneman777, and whatever deluded people who post on this Forum and Topic?

Apparently so ...
Bobby Jo

Why must you insult people? It is offensive and it really deters others from wanting anything to do with sharing their knowledge or beliefs with you. You make it very difficult to engage in any kind of discussion on any topic. I am not interested in being a part of your self-righteous mentality and am blocking you at this point. I don't want to read anything you have to say.

 

[Earburner]

Heart2soul and Bobby Jo missed the POINT of my post!

Here, try again:
In God's Eternity, there is no such thing as "a thousand years". Also, we have no reference to interpret "a thousand years" to be literal whatsoever!

However, we do have a reference that reveals an era where NO time is accounted for, and has no end, "except" for the reason of one thing, lack of FAITH.
2 Thes. 2:3.

"A thousand years" is symbolic of the Age of God's Grace. Please read and study, and please, "be not ignorant":

2 Peter 3[7] But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day.
WHY?
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning His promise [of Salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Which is describing NOW, the Age of His Grace!
.
Now, let's examine verse 8.
"one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years [is with the Lord] as one day."

If we all would stop and take moment, we would really understand how this verse opposes itself in our analytical minds.
We all can comprehend that God can view a thousand years as being one day.
But, for God to view one day as being a thousand years, it just doesn't quite register right in our minds.
Think on that for a minute, and you will see what I mean.

WHY?
The verse is not talking about literal time, but rather an unlimited amount of time, from the perspective of His Eternity, in which there is NO time!!

Did you know, that there is no time limit for the length of God's Grace, but rather there will be an event, that shall end His Age of Grace?
That event is: "a falling away". The lack of Faith on the earth. It is THEN that Jesus shall return.
It is the cause of it, and nothing else!!
2 Thes. 2:3; Luke 18:8.

Q. So in conclusion, what is the period of "a thousand years"?
A. It is symbolic of His Age of Grace NOW, in which we are NOW reigning with Him! Not over people, but rather FOR people!!
For them to come to repentance and be saved!!
Again, please see the latter part of 2 Peter 3:9

Rev. 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made us (present tense, as in now) kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen

 

[Bobby Jo]

Why must you insult people?

Jesus told the TRUTH. Should we do less?

Would you prefer what tickles your ears?
Bobby Jo

 

[farouk]

When God created the first "light" it is not a physical light but rather spiritual. Perhaps His presence...perhaps Jesus....(He is the light of the world). The darkness comprehended it not....but the first light established His power and reign over darkness. Jesus is called the Morning or Day star. Since the sun, moon and stars weren't created until the 4th day what would illuminate as light on the first? His Glory? In a physical perspective perhaps pure energy which is necessary for life.
I am going to bed...but something to consider.

Interesting comment! especially bearing in mind the references to light in John chapter 1. The primacy of the spiritual is certainly a very good framework to remember in the interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Interesting comment! especially bearing in mind the references to light in John chapter 1. The primacy of the spiritual is certainly a very good framework to remember in the interpretation of Scripture.

Yep, it all "spiritual", -- the entire account of creation is SPIRITUAL. Good Call.

 

[Bobby Jo]

What are the ODDS? Out of some 22 pages of posts, only @pompadour (posts #14 & 25) got SOMETHING correct:

Quote @pompadour, Post #14:

I think 1948 is the beginning of the end time generation.

Jesus said ( Math 24 ) that the trib. will be so bad that there will no flesh saved alive but for the elects sake those days Have been shortened. In Rev. the devil is caste down to Earth having great wrath knowing that he has but a short season = ( the season of the locust ) = 5 months, May - Sept.
Sept. has the feast of trumpets. Also known as the feast that no one knows the day or hour. Jesus said something very similar about his return.​

Quote @pompadour, Post #25:

With all due respect you are wrong about 1,000 years in the future.
I will be alive when Jesus returns, I'm 77 I don't think I will last another 1,000 years.​

One would think that with all those that profess Christianity the church INFORMED would outnumber the UNIFORMED. -- Maybe this is why "Endurance" is encouraged:

Rev. 13:10 ... Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
Rev. 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.​

... because the church has no strength, and the GREAT FALLING AWAY will be fulfilled in our eyes.

Mark 4:6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.​

What a sad state for the church,
Bobby Jo

 

[Phoneman777]

Wrong! Not to the the of time, but rather "the last end of the indignation" against Israel, which is who the 2300 day prophecy is applied to, having to do with Antiochus Epiphanes, in the latter time of the 3rd Beast.
Daniel 8:19-26
[19] And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the *time appointed the end shall be. (* the 2300 days).

Wrong? I refer you to Daniel 8:17: "So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for AT THE TIME OF THE END [shall be] the vision."