What benefit does it produce to make Jesus God

[Matthias]

No

I’ve decided on the latter. Here is a trinitarian clergyman doing what the trinitarian clergy typically doesn’t do with their audience.

“God … that is, strong, Power. Here it is not the Person or the nature of this king that is depicted but only His wonderful government of the kingdom. Therefore He has counsel, He has full power, He can come to the aid of the weary and those spent by trials.” …

“Everlasting Father. This, then, indicates the work and business of this King, not His Person. …”

To Us a Child Is Born: Luther’s Interpretations on Isaiah 9:6–7

 

[Wrangler]

Believing it is the key to salvation, along with one other thing. Romans 10:9 says believing God - in his unitarian nature - raised Jesus from the dead. Not "the Father" but God - in his unitarian nature - raised Jesus from the dead is the condition of salvation. Powerful stuff.
if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

I only care about what scripture says

No you don’t. You don’t care at all about the explicit word of God as the following shows.

QUOTE="RLT63, post: 1445399, member: 18983"]But they are not mutually exclusive[/QUOTE]

The contempt for the explicit word of God is shocking.

GOD: You shall not murder.
YOU: they are not mutually exclusive.

GOD: If you believe Jesus is the son of God … and God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
YOU: they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[RLT63]

No you don’t. You don’t care at all about the explicit word of God as the following shows.

QUOTE="RLT63, post: 1445399, member: 18983"]But they are not mutually exclusive

The contempt for the explicit word of God is shocking.

GOD: You shall not murder.
YOU: they are not mutually exclusive.

GOD: If you believe Jesus is the son of God … and God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
YOU: they are not mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE]
We disagree on what scripture teaches
https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

I do believe God raised Jesus from the dead. I disagree with you about the deity of Christ. I didn't say anything about murder so your comparison is ludacris.

 

[GEN2REV]

Sure. As soon as you admit the trinity is not in the Bible, admit that not one Scripture verse directly says Jesus is God.

Unnecessary. I've hosted multiple threads stating the trinity is a false doctrine and have one running right now.

God LAUGHS at the trinity

You are well aware of this and you are desperately trying to distract from the fact that you're refusing to address the questions.

Who is Jesus referring to in John 8:24 and how can He say what He says in John 14:7 and John 14:9 if He is NOT the Father?

 

[GEN2REV]

Totally delusional.

Please cite the verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

Then, I'll concede.

It is a new deception spreading like wildfire that if the trinity is not legit, then it's impossible for Jesus to be God.

That is horse manure.

Jesus IS God and the trinity IS false doctrine.

Both 100% True.

 

[RLT63]

Unnecessary. I've hosted multiple threads stating the trinity is a false doctrine and have one running right now.

God LAUGHS at the trinity

You are well aware of this and you are desperately trying to distract from the fact that you're refusing to address the questions.

Who is Jesus referring to in John 8:24 and how can He say what He says in John 14:7 and John 14:9 if He is NOT the Father?

This should be an interesting discussion between you and Wrangler. I'll sit back and watch, if he even responds.

 

[Wrangler]

Unnecessary.

Talk about a distraction.

Despite your apparent hostility, we seem to be more on the same page than not.

trying to distract from the fact that you're refusing to address the questions.

Not refusing. Just wanted to establish the context.

Who is Jesus referring to in John 8:24 and how can He say what He says in John 14:7 and John 14:9 if He is NOT the Father?

Not sure why it matters who Jesus is referring to since Jesus is NOT God? ‘The one’ being God’s Anointed, God’s agent.

14:7, through me, is another reference to being an agent or servant of God.

14:9 is a vague verse. So, mystical dualists naturally love to read into it what they can. Funny that you ask about these verses, pretend I am refusing to address it when I don’t address it the way you want. This verse parallels others that Jesus is an image, a manifestation, that shows a reflection. The verse dramatically fails to plainly say Jesus is God. Contrast with Mark 1:2 plainly saying Jesus is the son of God.

 

[RLT63]

Talk about a distraction.

Despite your apparent hostility, we seem to be more on the same page than not.



Not refusing. Just wanted to establish the context.



Not sure why it matters who Jesus is referring to since Jesus is NOT God? ‘The one’ being God’s Anointed, God’s agent.

14:7, through me, is another reference to being an agent or servant of God.

14:9 is a vague verse. So, mystical dualists naturally love to read into it what they can. Funny that you ask about these verses, pretend I am refusing to address it when I don’t address it the way you want. This verse parallels others that Jesus is an image, a manifestation, that shows a reflection. The verse dramatically fails to plainly say Jesus is God. Contrast with Mark 1:2 plainly saying Jesus is the son of God.

Mark 1:2 Even as it is written in Isaiah the prophet, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Who shall prepare thy way.????????????????? UMM this doesn't say Jesus is the Son of God. There are others you might want to cite

 

[Wrangler]

It is a new deception spreading like wildfire that if the trinity is not legit, then it's impossible for Jesus to be God.

That is horse manure.

Jesus IS God and the trinity IS false doctrine.

Both 100% True.

No. The real passion for the trinity is the man-is-god thesis. You have merely moved the goal posts to a bi-une God that is completely lacking a verse like above.

Jesus is NOT God. The demonstrable evidence of this fact is that Jesus died.

 

[GEN2REV]

Talk about a distraction.

Despite your apparent hostility, we seem to be more on the same page than not.



Not refusing. Just wanted to establish the context.



Not sure why it matters who Jesus is referring to since Jesus is NOT God? ‘The one’ being God’s Anointed, God’s agent.

14:7, through me, is another reference to being an agent or servant of God.

14:9 is a vague verse. So, mystical dualists naturally love to read into it what they can. Funny that you ask about these verses, pretend I am refusing to address it when I don’t address it the way you want. This verse parallels others that Jesus is an image, a manifestation, that shows a reflection. The verse dramatically fails to plainly say Jesus is God. Contrast with Mark 1:2 plainly saying Jesus is the son of God.

With respect, there are only a few possibilities of your current status.

You either do not know the OT at all, and are largely unfamiliar with the Bible (which I know for certain is not the case because you've been on this forum alone - and likely others - long enough to see all of the information that is contrary to your stated position) OR you are in deep denial due to the concept of Jesus being God being some threat to your sanity. Very common. Your friends/family members believe as you do and you are not mentally/emotionally capable of straying from their acceptance.

My personal favorite possibility? You are yet another virtual identity on this forum of those who are pushing an agenda despite any and all evidence to the contrary. Because you show clear, and extensive, knowledge of Scripture in other threads, on other topics, this is the most likely scenario.

God bless you either way.

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus is NOT God. The demonstrable evidence of this fact is that Jesus died.

Jesus, the man, died.

The Spirit that was placed in Mary's egg was, and is, Eternal and did not, cannot, die.

That's why He says 'return me to the glory I had with you before the world was.'

Elect may have been known by God before the Creation, but they shared no "glory" with God Almighty. And God shares that glory with nobody. It is HIS glory, and His alone.

 

[Wrangler]

Mark 1:2 Even as it is written in Isaiah the prophet, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Who shall prepare thy way.????????????????? UMM this doesn't say Jesus is the Son of God. There are others you might want to cite

It’s like you are in complete denial of agency. V1 explicitly identifies Jesus NOT as God incarnate but the son of god. Other verses call this same son of god a servant of god.

You suppose there is a superseding contradiction in the very next verse. Imagine you are reading monotheist text and see how easily it flows.

 

[Wrangler]

deep denial due to the concept of Jesus being God being some threat to your sanity.

Going for the psychological attack … Seeing things that aren’t there is not a sign of mental health, my friend.

Simply put there is no trinity verse, no Jesus is God and you’re damned if you don’t believe it, verse.

OTOH, there are many verses that say you are not to believe the trinitarian god.
1C
Shema
Roman’s 10:9
1 John 5:5

So, there is that.

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus, the man, died.

AS IF there is any other part of Jesus.

If Jesus did not die - in his entirety - then his sacrifice was in vain because Scripture tells us death is the penalty for sin - not some partial payments may be acceptable.

 

[Wrangler]

That's why He says 'return me to the glory I had with you before the world was.'

Speculation.

Here is another valid interpretation. All men exist before being born, including Jesus. Doesn't make them God.

 

[RLT63]

It’s like you are in complete denial of agency. V1 explicitly identifies Jesus NOT as God incarnate but the son of god. Other verses call this same son of god a servant of god.

You suppose there is a superseding contradiction in the very next verse. Imagine you are reading monotheist text and see how easily it flows.

Then quote Mark 1:1. The verse you quoted is speaking of John the Baptist.

 

[GEN2REV]

Jesus, the man, died.

AS IF there is any other part of Jesus.

You say Jesus was a man, but now He doesn't even have a spirit (soul) just like the rest of us?

Your logic doesn't track. That is a sign of desperate need to silence, hide and distract from, relevant data.

If Jesus did not die - in his entirety - then his sacrifice was in vain because Scripture tells us death is the penalty for sin - not some partial payments may be acceptable.

Actually, no. All that was needed was for a flesh and blood man to live a perfectly sinless life in order to break the curse. God did that through the flesh body that He took - which was known as Jesus Christ. Everything God did in the flesh was as an example to those who would follow - and those followers of Jesus Christ's humility, obedience and sacrifice are called Christians.

 

[GEN2REV]

All men exist before being born, including Jesus. Doesn't make them God.

I don't think that's true.

The Bible refers to the chosen, and elect, being foreknown. And Jesus informs us that there are Tares which are planted (generated - somehow) by the devil. There is no indication that either of those secondary examples have any pre-existence.

 

[Wrangler]

You say Jesus was a man

No sir. Scripture explicitly and repeatedly says Jesus was a man. See the difference?

 

[Wrangler]

I don't think that's true.

But it is a valid inference from the text as a possibility.

That’s my point of the Sh’ma violators, like you. Sure, the text you cite could support violating the Sh’ma but it could also be taken in a way that it is not.

I honestly do not understand the intensity of the drive to conjecture inferences to violate or contradict explicit Scripture - especially when one can speculate an inference that is in harmony with explicit Scripture. What insight do you have on this?