What are the two witnesses doing with the prostitute?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jesus said he will come in the clouds.

I knew what Jesus said.You were ignorant of what Jesus said ,therefore you said I made it up.


Ad you can see,I didn't make it up

Mathew 24

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Not long after I had recieved the holy Ghost ,I noticed memory of Scripture greatly increased as I learned.It came to point that I had about memorized all the words of Jesus .My son used to start a verse and I would finish it by memory.


You should ask for the gift of the holy Ghost do you will be able to learn .

The clouds of heaven are angels.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Surely, the clouds of the sky did not bring Jesus before God the Father in heaven when He ascended there. It was the angels of heaven who are figuratively called "the clouds of heaven".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes the 12 stars represent her other offspring.

The bible interprets and reveals the truth why have you repeatly ignored the vision of the woman? Here it is again

Revelation 12
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.

Genesis 37
9 Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. “Listen,” he said, “I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me.”

10 When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, “What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?” 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind.

It never indicates that any unbelievers are among her offspring. If the woman represented earthly Israel then unbelieving Israelites would be her offspring as well, but that is not the case. I'm done talking about this. Believe what you want. I know the woman represents Spiritual Israel rather than earthly Israel because her offspring includes those who follow Christ (Rev 12:17) and both Jew and Gentile believers follow Christ. Gentile believers obviously do not have earthly Israel as our mother.

 

[Marty fox]

It never indicates that any unbelievers are among her offspring. If the woman represented earthly Israel then unbelieving Israelites would be her offspring as well, but that is not the case. I'm done talking about this. Believe what you want. I know the woman represents Spiritual Israel rather than earthly Israel because her offspring includes those who follow Christ (Rev 12:17) and both Jew and Gentile believers follow Christ. Gentile believers obviously do not have earthly Israel as our mother.

You do realize that Jacobs name was changed to Israel?

 

[Marty fox]

The clouds of heaven are angels.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Surely, the clouds of the sky did not bring Jesus before God the Father in heaven when He ascended there. It was the angels of heaven who are figuratively called "the clouds of heaven".

Clouds in the bible represented the presence and power of God

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You do realize that Jacobs name was changed to Israel?

LOL. Imagine if I asked you that question. What would you think?

What is your point here?

I look at the woman similarly to the natural olive tree that Paul described in Romans 11:17-24. The unbelieving Israelites, represented by natural branches, were broken off of the natural olive tree and wild branches, representing Gentile believers, were grafted in from the wild olive tree. So, what is your understanding of the identity of the natural olive tree? That it is natural Israel or spiritual Israel?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Clouds in the bible represented the presence and power of God

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Did you not read this verse? It refers to the Son of man, which obviously represents Jesus, coming with the clouds of heaven and it says "they", referring to the clouds of heaven, "brought him near before him" (the Ancient of days). How can that not be referring to angels? Are you saying you think "the presence and power of God" are "they" who brought Jesus near before the Father?

 

[tailgator]

Yes, but do you notice that in Matthew 24 Jesus was actually talking to His disciples? The warning was for them.

Jesus is talking to his disciples in Israel and he is giving them signs of his coming.
Jesus spoke often about things that take place in Israel before his coming.
Today Jesus still has a few disciples in Israel.Not a great number of disciples but he has some.

 

[tailgator]

Clouds in the bible represented the presence and power of God

Clouds in the bible can also mean clouds.

 

[Lambano]

Clouds in the bible can also mean clouds.

 

[tailgator]

I remember that song and love it.
Thank you.

 

[Brakelite]

It never indicates that any unbelievers are among her offspring. If the woman represented earthly Israel then unbelieving Israelites would be her offspring as well, but that is not the case. I'm done talking about this. Believe what you want. I know the woman represents Spiritual Israel rather than earthly Israel because her offspring includes those who follow Christ (Rev 12:17) and both Jew and Gentile believers follow Christ. Gentile believers obviously do not have earthly Israel as our mother.

I would give a slightly different nuance to this, that the woman, as does a woman throughout prophetic scripture, represents the church. The harlot Babylon the fallen church, the pure woman God's people in both old and new testaments. When the woman was pregnant and waiting the birth of the messiah, it was symbolic of God's people from the time of Eve to the incarnation, and from then the Christian church. While God's methods may have changed from old to new covenants, God's people were always His church, symbolically His bride.
And throughout that time, Satan had sought to oppose and counterfeit the true with the false. That counterfeit had developed over the millennia into one that is difficult to discern. Hence why so few today recognise Babylon the Great, the Mother, for who she truly is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I would give a slightly different nuance to this, that the woman, as does a woman throughout prophetic scripture, represents the church.

That is what I'm saying as well. You didn't catch that? Spiritual Israel is another term for the church and I did mention that "her offspring includes those who follow Christ (Rev 12:17) and both Jew and Gentile believers follow Christ". When you consider that the other offspring of the woman is Jesus Himself (Rev 12:5), that's a description of the church with Jesus as the cornerstone, right?

The harlot Babylon the fallen church, the pure woman God's people in both old and new testaments.

What is "the fallen church"? You may have seen my explanation of my understanding of the great city Babylon before, but I basically see it as the direct spiritual opposite of the new heavenly Jerusalem, which is "the mother of us all" (Gal 4:26). I see Babylon as being the mother of all unbelievers.

When the woman was pregnant and waiting the birth of the messiah, it was symbolic of God's people from the time of Eve to the incarnation, and from then the Christian church. While God's methods may have changed from old to new covenants, God's people were always His church, symbolically His bride.

Agree.

 

[Brakelite]

What is "the fallen church"?

I see all prophetic women as the church, faithful as in Revelation 12, unfaithful as in Revelation 17,18. That word fallen literally means divorced. A previous relationship broken through spiritual adultery... cleaving to the kings and queens and rulers of this world instead of Christ, her Husband. Rhetoric at cab safely identify even Babylon as a fallen Christian church. Relying on the state to accomplish that which God had promised in Covenant relationship with His people. In the OT the enemies of the Church were local literal empires, as detailed in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation 13 in particular, but in the NT global spiritual powers. Babylon the Great is the RCC, her harlot daughters are those protestant churches that were faithful in separating from Rome, but have apostatized and have also fallen by returning to mother. Hence twice fallen.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I see all prophetic women as the church, faithful as in Revelation 12, unfaithful as in Revelation 17,18. That word fallen literally means divorced. A previous relationship broken through spiritual adultery... cleaving to the kings and queens and rulers of this world instead of Christ, her Husband. Rhetoric at cab safely identify even Babylon as a fallen Christian church. Relying on the state to accomplish that which God had promised in Covenant relationship with His people. In the OT the enemies of the Church were local literal empires, as detailed in the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation 13 in particular, but in the NT global spiritual powers. Babylon the Great is the RCC, her harlot daughters are those protestant churches that were faithful in separating from Rome, but have apostatized and have also fallen by returning to mother. Hence twice fallen.

Thanks for the explanation. I think Babylon encompasses more than just the RCC, as I have explained. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

As for your particular view, what about other protestant churches who apostasize in some other way besides returning to RCC teachings? Let's say they buy into new age teachings, secular humanism or something along those lines. They have no relation to Babylon in your view?

 

[Brakelite]

Thanks for the explanation. I think Babylon encompasses more than just the RCC, as I have explained. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

As for your particular view, what about other protestant churches who apostasize in some other way besides returning to RCC teachings? Let's say they buy into new age teachings, secular humanism or something along those lines. They have no relation to Babylon in your view?

In the last days Revelation reveals a situation of a three fold union between the dragon, beast, and false prophet. The dragon being Satan, we can really believe he represents that new age spiritualism you speak of, while the beast and the false prophet that union of Babylon (fallen church) and the governnent/state she is riding. Babylon is a church. A Christian church, fallen through apostasy and unfaithfulness, but that unfaithfulness is due to its relationship with the state. The fallen daughters are guilty of the same sin... spiritual adultery. Any fallen churches as you describe that go into new age or other ways, are not necessarily linked to the state/ beast, but the dragon. Sorry if that sounds a bit mish mashy, but I think it makes sense.

 

[Brakelite]

Those protestant churches who are joining with the state even as we speak, mean well. However, I think that if their relationship with Jesus were on a more sure footing, then they would be attempting to establish an earthly dominion or Thor's worldly version of God's kingdom on earth. An earthly kingdom is in fact the focus of much prophecy, going back several thousand years. This effort is really the church's attempt to render to Caesar those things that belong to God. They are asking the state, caesar, to actively take the predominant role in doing what ought to be done by the church. Their faith is misdirected. Revelation 13 gives us a startling picture of the fallen church Babylon controlling the state, and enforcing worship. Christian worship . But vain worship teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.
This has been taking place in the US for the last 10 or so years. The. Evangelical take over of local, state, and federal government is well attested to, and the next steps are well advanced.

 

[tailgator]

Those protestant churches who are joining with the state even as we speak, mean well. However, I think that if their relationship with Jesus were on a more sure footing, then they would be attempting to establish an earthly dominion or Thor's worldly version of God's kingdom on earth. An earthly kingdom is in fact the focus of much prophecy, going back several thousand years. This effort is really the church's attempt to render to Caesar those things that belong to God. They are asking the state, caesar, to actively take the predominant role in doing what ought to be done by the church. Their faith is misdirected. Revelation 13 gives us a startling picture of the fallen church Babylon controlling the state, and enforcing worship. Christian worship . But vain worship teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.
This has been taking place in the US for the last 10 or so years. The. Evangelical take over of local, state, and federal government is well attested to, and the next steps are well advanced.

Evangelicals have moved to take over the military as well,giving themselves power to make fire come down out of heaven .
I'm thinking that beast is referred to as the false prophet.

Them who are in command can simply say the word fire("fire proceeds from the mouths")and down on their enemies it comes.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In the last days Revelation reveals a situation of a three fold union between the dragon, beast, and false prophet. The dragon being Satan, we can really believe he represents that new age spiritualism you speak of, while the beast and the false prophet that union of Babylon (fallen church) and the governnent/state she is riding. Babylon is a church. A Christian church, fallen through apostasy and unfaithfulness, but that unfaithfulness is due to its relationship with the state. The fallen daughters are guilty of the same sin... spiritual adultery. Any fallen churches as you describe that go into new age or other ways, are not necessarily linked to the state/ beast, but the dragon. Sorry if that sounds a bit mish mashy, but I think it makes sense.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I see the holy city, new Jerusalem, as being the mother of literally all believers (Galatians 4:26) and the great city Babylon as the mother of all unbelievers.

 

[tailgator]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I see the holy city, new Jerusalem, as being the mother of literally all believers (Galatians 4:26) and the great city Babylon as the mother of all unbelievers.

Well,we know what city unbelievers got their start.
The mother of them all.

Mathew 26
64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

66 What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.