Unitarianism vs Trinitarianism

[Matthias]

I'm only making the case for the deity of Christ. Where you go from there is your decision. It leads me to believe in the Trinity. It leads some to believe in Oneness. Some reject it altogether.

The deity of Christ is his Father alone. Christ is a unitarian.

What you’re attempting to do is make a case for the deity of Christ’s person.

That’s what trinitarianism does. That’s what ties this in with the title of the thread: Unitarianism vs. Trinitarianism.

 

[RLT63]

Jesus claimed that worship should be reserved for Yahweh alone (Mt. 4:10; c.f. Ex. 20:5). However, Jesus went on to be worshipped by people (Mt. 8:2; 14:33; 15:25; 28:9; 28:17; Lk. 24:52; Jn. 9:38; Heb. 1:6, 8). Revelation 5:11-14 likewise pictures every creature on Earth worshipping Jesus on his throne. James White comments,

If Jesus is a creation, a mere creature, then is He not likewise joining into this song of praise? Yet the song is directed to Him and to the Father. Obviously, those in heaven itself know that Jesus is not one of the created things. Creation knows its Master.[7]​

In contrast to this, Peter was horrified at the thought of being worshiped, because he was “just a man” (Acts 10:25-26).[8] When John tried to worship an angel (Rev. 22:18), the angel told him, “Do not do that I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God” (Rev. 22:19).

 

[RLT63]

Another indirect reference to the deity of Christ is found in Jesus’ favorite title for himself: the Son of Man. Many assume that this title refers to Jesus’ humanity, while the name “the Son of God” refers to his deity, but this is a misled assumption.

Interestingly, this title is lifted from Daniel 7:13-14. It refers to a Messianic figure, who receives glory and sovereignty over the entire Earth. Here the “Son of Man” has the authority to judge the sins of the people, and he personally inaugurates the Kingdom of God in himself. The most dominant theme throughout the book of Daniel is the sovereignty of God, and yet, this sovereignty is handed over to the “Son of Man” in chapter seven at the end of human history. Jesus refers to himself as “the Son of Man” 84 times. It is by far his most favorite self-designation

 

[Matthias]

Jesus claimed that worship should be reserved for Yahweh alone (Mt. 4:10; c.f. Ex. 20:5). However, Jesus went on to be worshipped by people (Mt. 8:2; 14:33; 15:25; 28:9; 28:17; Lk. 24:52; Jn. 9:38; Heb. 1:6, 8). Revelation 5:11-14 likewise pictures every creature on Earth worshipping Jesus on his throne. James White comments,


In contrast to this, Peter was horrified at the thought of being worshiped, because he was “just a man” (Acts 10:25-26).[8] When John tried to worship an angel (Rev. 22:18), the angel told him, “Do not do that I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God” (Rev. 22:19).

So many people are worshipped in scripture without any problem being associated with it that it should cause you to question your narrative. The stricture isn’t against worshipping people.

The stricture in scripture is against worshipping any deity besides the one God, Yahweh.

 

[Matthias]

Another indirect reference to the deity of Christ is found in Jesus’ favorite title for himself: the Son of Man. Many assume that this title refers to Jesus’ humanity, while the name “the Son of God” refers to his deity, but this is a misled assumption.

It is a misled assumption.

Interestingly, this title is lifted from Daniel 7:13-14. It refers to a Messianic figure, who receives glory and sovereignty over the entire Earth. Here the “Son of Man” has the authority to judge the sins of the people, and he personally inaugurates the Kingdom of God in himself. The most dominant theme throughout the book of Daniel is the sovereignty of God, and yet, this sovereignty is handed over to the “Son of Man” in chapter seven at the end of human history. Jesus refers to himself as “the Son of Man” 84 times. It is by far his most favorite self-designation

“Son of man” is a generic title which served a dual purpose. Everyone is “son of man” but only one person is the “son of man” Daniel was prophesying about - the Messiah whom the God of Jesus and Daniel promised to raise up and send.

If Jesus wanted to say for a while that he is that promised Messiah without blatantly saying he is that promised Messiah, referring to himself with the title accomplished it. This is the so-called “Messianic secret.”

 

[RLT63]

So many people are worshipped in scripture without any problem being associated with it that it should cause you to question your narrative. The stricture isn’t against worshipping people.

The stricture in scripture is against worshipping any deity besides the one God, Yahweh.

I only know of king Nebuchadnezzar falling down and worshipping Daniel, it doesn't indicate if this was proper and
1Ch 29:20
And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
I don't know of any others

 

[Matthias]

I only know of king Nebuchadnezzar falling down and worshipping Daniel, it doesn't indicate if this was proper and
1Ch 29:20
And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.
I don't know of any others

I recommend using a Concordance. However, you should be aware that translators often try to downplay it. They’re hiding it from the reader. I won’t speculate here on their motive(s).

 

[RLT63]

I recommend using a Concordance. However, you should be aware that translators often try to downplay it. They’re hiding it from the reader. I won’t speculate here on their motive(s).

I used Blue Letter Bible Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

 

[Matthias]

I used Blue Letter Bible Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

Do you see how this Concordance hid it from you?

If you check on the meaning of the Hebrew word used for “worship” in a Lexicon you should be able to see it, if you haven’t already.

P.S.

Hebrew Word Definition: Worship | AHRC

Defining Hebrew words within their original cultural context.

www.ancient-hebrew.org

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @RLT63

You picked out a good verse, which people try to explain that Jesus was God as though he was God by his flesh, I guess?

Either way I thought you may find this comment by Adam Clarke worth your while perhaps.

*Information concerning Adam Clarke (1762 – 26 August 1832) was a British Methodist theologian who served three times as President of the Wesleyan Methodist Conference (1806–07, 1814–15 and 1822–23). A biblical scholar, he published an influential Bible commentary among other works. He was a Wesleyan. Source: wikipedia.

Titus 2:13​

Looking for that blessed hope - Expecting the grand object of our hope, eternal life. See Tit 1:2. This is what the Gospel teaches us to expect, and what the grace of God prepares the human heart for. This is called a blessed hope; those who have it are happy in the sure prospect of that glory which shall be revealed.

The glorious appearing - Και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου Θεου και σωτηρος ἡμων Ιησου Χριστου. This clause, literally translated, is as follows: And the appearing of the glory of the great God, even our Savior Jesus Christ. On this passage I must refer the reader to the Essay on the Greek Article, by H. S. Boyd, Esq., appended to the notes on the Epistle to the Ephesians, where both the structure and doctrine of this passage are explained at large.

Some think that the blessed hope and glorious appearing mean the same thing; but I do not think so. The blessed hope refers simply to eternal glorification in general; the glorious appearing, to the resurrection of the body; for when Christ appears he will change this vile body, and make it like unto his Glorious Body, according to the working by which he is able even to subdue all things to himself. See Php 3:20, Php 3:21.

*Source above - E-sword bible program tool - has free commentary downloads.

 

[RLT63]

Do you see how this Concordance hid it from you?

If you check on the meaning of the Hebrew word used for “worship” in a Lexicon you should be able to see it, if you haven’t already.

P.S.

Hebrew Word Definition: Worship | AHRC

Defining Hebrew words within their original cultural context.

www.ancient-hebrew.org

It didn't hide it. It gave me examples of where the word worshipped was used. There's not a feature to search for the Hebrew or Greek that was translated as worshipped. I bowed to people when I was in martial arts but I didn't worship them

 

[face2face]

Conclusion
If, as the anti-Trinitarians maintain, the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was never taught until the council of Nicea in 325, then why do these quotes exist? The answer is simple: the Trinity is a biblical doctrine, and it was taught before the council of Nicea in 325 A.D.

Mainstream Christianity has been corrupted from the outset. Trinity developed over centuries and perfected apostasy in the Papacy.
The great whore—the mother (Papacy) of harlots (State Churches) and abominations (the many sects) of the earth—with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication. Revelation 17:1, 5, 2.
It's all there if you have the time and inclination to see Paul's warnings.
F2F

 

[Matthias]

It didn't hide it. It gave me examples of where the word worshipped was used.

It did hide it from you. The Hebrew word occurs 172 times. KJV showed it to you only 99 times. They concealed it from you 43 % of the time.

There's not a feature to search for the Hebrew or Greek that was translated as worshipped.

I recommend using a tool that does.

I bowed to people when I was in martial arts but I didn't worship them

You aren’t thinking hebraically. That was the major point of the article I linked. You’re imposing your non-Hebraic understanding of worship on the Hebraic text.

 

[Wrangler]

You aren’t thinking hebraically. That was the major point of the article I linked. You’re imposing your non-Hebraic understanding of worship on the Hebraic text.

They have to think 100% opposite the Hebrew writers who wrote all of the Bible, every book except those perhaps by Luke, in order to justify their dogma.

 

[RLT63]

It did hide it from you. The Hebrew word occurs 172 times. KJV showed it to you only 99 times. They concealed it from you 43 % of the time.



I recommend using a tool that does.



You aren’t thinking hebraically. That was the major point of the article I linked. You’re imposing your non-Hebraic understanding of worship on the Hebraic text.

What is Worship? Shachah

The Hebrew word "shachah" reminds us to bow down before our God in worship.

www.worshiparts.net

 

[RLT63]

What is Worship? Shachah

The Hebrew word "shachah" reminds us to bow down before our God in worship.

www.worshiparts.net

It depends on the context.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

I've been told that I am going to Hell because of Romans 10:9. However I do believe God raised Jesus from the dead.

Why do YOU NOT believe this ?

 

[RLT63]

Why do YOU NOT believe this ?

Read it again. I do believe God raised Jesus from the dead. I don't believe like the Unitarians though and they use this verse as a proof text.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

These are my thoughts.

I believe there is one God and no other. Neither are there 3 gods nor 3 persons making up God.
He is the creator of all things. Genesis 1:1 ; Isaiah 43:10

I believe in one God who is able to change his form into however he chooses to present himself to man. Philippians 2:6/7/8 ; Mark 16:12 ; Isaiah 45:5 /7 ; Daniel 3:25 ( and the Son was NOT known to man yet.) Ezekiel 8:1/2 ; Exodus 13:21/22 ; John 1:14 ;

God looked and saw the complete wickedness of man. He came as a man, born of mankind for redemption to ALL who would believe. His Spirit was sent to overshadow Mary and she conceived Luke 1:35 . The Son that was born of man was 100% God and a 100% man, not 50/50 DNA.

God is our saviour. Isaiah 43:11 ; Titus 3:4-7 ; 1Timothy 2:3/4 ; 2Peter 1:11 ; Jude1:25 ;

God's Spirit. Romans 8:9 ; (Spirit of God; Spirit of Christ). 1 Corinthians 2:8-11 ; 1John 4:2 ; 2 Corinthians 3:15-18 ;
John 4:22-25 . V 24. God is a Spirit:

God is one who is able to be all things for all mankind.
God the creator became Jesus the Son and he sent his Holy Spirit to guide, teach and comfort us.

Please read my scripture references, if it is lightened click on it and the site will take you to the word.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Read it again. I do believe God raised Jesus from the dead. I don't believe like the Unitarians though and they use this verse as a proof text.

Ok, I'll read it again.