Barna Poll: Most Americans - Including Church Members - Reject the Trinity

[NayborBear]

The reason/s this/your poll is so correct can be explained pretty easily sir!
Because "social Christianity" also called "Churchianity" or "buffet, cherry picked, not to mention those Willingly Ignorant (KNOWING they don't WANT TO KNOW or pursue any further)", by their over boisterous egos, have muddied the waters, and so have by their "traditions", made VOID the Word of the Father and God of Jesus Christ of Nazareth!
There are so MANY instances in the New Testament where it has been recorded, where the "writer or author" in his "greeting" or opening of a Letter, or Book have declared as part of their credibility to this!
Yet?
It always gets blown off!
Why?
Because that which they view/profess as being of the utmost importance ie. The Great Commission is AS FAR as they in their (so called) "Christian Service" are (quite comfortably these days) are willing to go!
Now, I'll tell you why!
Because of the difference between SEEING the Father, and GOING UNTO the Father!
BOTH of these being direct quotes from Jesus of Nazareth Himself!
Society has drifted so far away from going unto the Father?
It should nudge one to compare that which occurred to the nation of Israel, as to that which is occurring within the realms of Churchianity!
If it doesn't?
Then you are of one of two groups!
Biblically Illiterate?
Or
WILLINGLY IGNORANT!

We are at that time of both the "falling away" from the faith, as Paul stated, AND?
The exposing of that evil one "sitting in the Temple" proclaiming that HE ALONE is God!
Not to mention the simultaneously exposing perditious men in their perditious ways!
In which God in His Loving Kindness which endures forever is making it so much easier in these last days by "congregating" into "political parties!"

 

[Matthias]

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed today -

“Let the Presbyterians be Presbyterians.

Let the Baptists be Baptists.

Let the Anglicans be Anglican.

Let the Lutherans be Lutheran.”

(Stephen Spinnenweber)

https://x.com/stephenspin/status/1907427957901008927?s=61

My response to the trinitarian pastor, amen.

And let Jesus and the apostles be Jews.

 

[Matthias]

Does it matter?

Yes.

Does it matter?

No. To the average person sitting in church, it doesn’t.

Does it matter?

”You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.”

(John 4:22, LSB)

 

[JohnDB]

Isaiah 6:8
And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here I am! Send me."

Hmmmm

 

[Mindcruiser]

How can anyone believe in the Trinity if he or she doesn’t know and understand what the church which affirms it (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox) teaches about it?

How can anyone reject the Trinity if he or she doesn’t know and understand what the church which affirms it teaches about it?

How will people hear that teaching if / when it isn’t being taught in the pulpit and Sunday School classrooms of the church which affirms it? (Or in the pulpit and Sunday Schools classrooms of the church which doesn’t affirm it?)

Church history, in general, should be taught in the church and by the church.

”Just say you believe in the Trinity” isn’t proper instruction about the Trinity.

If the church which affirms the Trinity wants people to believe in the Trinity is filled with a substantial number of people who when surveyed say they reject the Trinity, the church clergy is doing an exceedingly poor job of educating the congregation in their care.

How will that church hope to persuade those who are not in any congregation to believe in the Trinity when it doesn’t properly instruct such people about the Trinity?

“I reject the Trinity but I don’t know and understand what the church affirms about it or why it does” is just as problematical as “I believe in the Trinity but I don’t know or understand what the church expects me to be affirming about it”.

Education is key.

From my experience on this subject, many folks believe they are a Trinitarian or believe in the Trinity if they say, or they affirm they just believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Now I know there's more to it than that. I would think all types (non-Trinitarians included) of the faithful believe in all three! It's how one believes and what or who they believe about/of them as the three major players/super-persons of the Bible, that makes all the difference.

So then I wonder, for those who believe or who are convinced they are Trinitarian, what impact does it have in their daily walk in their spirit and mind? I mean who do they pray to, for example, one, two or all three of these people? Who really saves them from eternal damnation? Is it one, or two or all three that sync up, or come to the pitch at the same time? And who decides on key matters or who's the key decision-maker? All three?! And then is this all presented in a synchronized and in a unison effect reflected in the writings of the Bible? I dare say it does not...In fact as I've read the Bible, the actions are done by one or two and never three of these players, or persons at one time.

 

[Matthias]

From my experience on this subject, many folks believe they are a Trinitarian or believe in the Trinity if they say, or they affirm they just believe in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

An acquaintance of mine calls it “shallow belief” - it‘s something which on the surface may be affirmed by trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians. It’s only when someone presses for more details that what they truly are comes to light.

Now I know there's more to it than that. I would think all types (non-Trinitarians included) of the faithful believe in all three! It's how one believes and what or who they believe about/of them as the three major players/super-persons of the Bible, that makes all the difference.

Well said.

So then I wonder, for those who believe or who are convinced they are Trinitarian, what impact does it have in their daily walk in their spirit and mind?

For some, it matters a great deal. For others, it doesn’t matter at all.

I mean who do they pray to, for example, one, two or all three of these people? Who really saves them from eternal damnation? Is it one, or two or all three that sync up, or come to the pitch at the same time? And who decides on key matters or who's the key decision-maker? All three?! And then is this all presented in a synchronized and in a unison effect reflected in the writings of the Bible? I dare say it does not...In fact as I've read the Bible, the actions are done by one or two and never three of these players, or persons at one time.

Theology is a wilder ride than anything an amusement park could ever offer.

 

[Matthias]

Members here may not take the matter seriously but there certainly are non-Members who do.

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this evening:

”This is the most troubling flash poll I ever conducted.

The implications are immense:

1) It echoes Barna’s finding that only 16% of America’s self-identified Christians are truly Trinitarian.

2) It demonstrates general theological education has failed to honor God and Christ.

(Malcolm Yarnell)

https://x.com/musingsonchrist/status/1908999331287331208?s=61

What did Dr. Yarnell’s flash poll ask?

”Saturday Theology Poll

Political conservatism is more important to the average American Evangelical than either Trinitarian orthodoxy or Christological orthodoxy.

Agree 81%

Disagree 16%

Would Rather Not Say 3%”

https://x.com/musingsonchrist/status/1908573861878038823?s=61

I don’t know him and don’t recognize the name, but he is Southern Baptist and he was involved last year trying to persuade the Southern Baptist Convention to affirm the Nicene Creed.

 

[Matthias]

“We encourage the Messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in June 2024 to affirm the Nicene Creed. We encourage the Southern Baptist meeting in June 2025 to include the Creed as an article in the Baptist Faith and Message. We are also happy to include the Apostles’ Creed, the Athanasian Creed, and the Chalcedonian Definition.”

Article XIX: The Creed

We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Chr...

www.malcolmyarnell.com

That will be interesting (at least it will be for me) to watch. Church history will be made if it passes.

 

[Matthias]

My paternal grandfather was a deacon in the Southern Baptist Church. He was a staunch trinitarian, but he knew very little about the history of historical orthodox trinitarianism and, if he were still alive, would be against the proposal “to include the [Nicene] Creed as an article in the Baptist Faith and Message.” He wouldn’t be happy at all “to include the Apostles’ Creed, the Athanasian Creed, and the Chalcedonian Definition.”

My grandfather was “old school”. Southern Baptists have always been non-creedal. This is a revolution, and my grandfather was not a revolutionary.

 

[Matthias]

The mere mention of “church history” and X / Twitter has something “For you”.

”The one good thing to come with the resurgence of heresy and false teaching within the Church is that it gives us a reason to teach church history in very applicable ways.”

https://x.com/honestyptweets/status/1908980692244951398?s=61

The trinitarian members here aren’t standing with me in calling for church history to be taught in churches and in homes. Will they stand with this youth pastor?

Is it me or do they just really not care?

* It’s probably both, not “or”. *

 

[NayborBear]

​

(KJV) THE DIVINE NAMES AND TITLES. Elohim occurs 2.700 times. Its first occurrence connects it with creation, and give it its essential meaning as the Creator. It indicates His relation to mankind as His creatures (see note on 2 Chron. 18:31, where it stands in contrast with Jehovah as indicating covenant relationship). 'Elohim is God the Son, the living "WORD" with creature form to create (John 1:1. Col. 1:15-17. Rev. 3:14); and later, with human form to redeem (John 1:14). "Begotten of His Father before all worlds; born of His mother, in the world." In this creature form He appeared to the Patriarchs, a form not temporarily assumed. 'Elohim is indicated (as in A.V.) by ordinary small type, "God". See table on page 7. Jehovah. While Elohim is God as the Creator of all things, Jehovah is the same God in covenant relation to those whom He has created (Cp. 2Chron. 18:31). Jehovah means the Eternal, the Immutable One, He Who WAS, and IS, and IS TO COME. The Divine definition is given in Gen. 21:33. He is especially, therefore, the God of Israel; and the God of those who are redeemed, and are thus now "in Christ". We can say "My God," but not "My Jehovah", for Jehovah is "MY God." Jehovah is indicated (as in A.V.) by small capital letters, "LORD"' and by "GOD" when it occurs in combination with Adonai, in which case LORD GOD = Adonai Jehovah. The name Jehovah is combined with ten other words, which form what are known as "the Jehovah Titles." in the Hebrew Canon . All are noted in the margin, in all their occurrences:-- JEHOVAH-JIREH = Jehovah will see, or provide. Gen. 22:14. JEHOVAH-ROPHEKA = Jehovah that healeth thee. Ex. 15:26. JEHOVAH-NISSI = Jehovah my banner. Ex. 17:15. JEHOVAH-MeKADDISHKEM = Jehovah that doth sanctify you. Ex. 31:13. Lev. 20:8; 21:8; 22:32. Ezek. 20:12. JEHOVAH-SHALOM = Jehovah [send] peace. Judg. 6:24. JEHOVAH-ZeBA'OTH = Jehovah of hosts. 1Sam. 1:3, and frequently. JEHOVAH-ZIDKENU = Jehovah our righteousness. Jer. 23:6; 33:16. JEHOVAH-SHAMMAH = Jehovah is there. Ezek. 48:35. JEHOVAH-ELYON = Jehovah most high. Ps. 7:17; 47:2; 97:9. JEHOVAH-RO'I = Jehovah my Shepherd. Ps. 23:1. We have seven of these, experimentally referred to, in Ps. 23, inasmuch as Jehovah, the "Good," "Great," and "Chief Shepherd," is engaged, in all the perfection of His attributes, on behalf of His sheep:-- In verse 1, we have No. 1 above. In verse 2, we have No. 5. In verse 3, we have Nos. 2 and 7. In verse 4, we have No. 8. In verse 5, we have Nos. 3 and 4. Jah is Jehovah in a special sense and relation. Jehovah as having BECOME our Salvation (first occ. Ex. 15:2), He Who IS, and WAS, and IS TO COME. It occurs 49 times. Compare Psalm 68. 4, 18. EL is essentially the Almighty, though the word is never so rendered (see below, "Shaddai"). EL is Elohim in all His strength and power. It is rendered "God" as Elohim is, but El is God the Omnipotent. Elohim is God the Creator putting His omnipotence into operation. Eloah (see below) is God Who wills and orders all, and Who is to be the one object of the worship of His people. El is the God Who knows all (first occ. Gen. 14:18:22) and sees all (Gen. 16:13) and that performeth all things for His people (Ps. 57:2); and in Whom all the Divine attributes are concentrated. El is indicated in this edition by type in large capital letters, thus: "GOD." It is sometimes transliterated in proper names Immanue-'el, Beth-'el, &c., where it is translated, as explained in the margin. Eloah is Elohim, Who is to be worshipped. Eloah is God in connection with His Will rather than His power. The first occurrence associates this name with worship (Deut. 32:15, 17). Hence it is the title used whenever the contrast (latent or expressed) is with false gods or idols. Eloah is essentially "the living God" in contrast to inanimate idols. Eloah is rendered "God", but we have indicated it by type thus: GOD. Elyon first occurs in Gen. 14:18 with El, and is rendered "the most high (God)". It is El and Elohim, not as the powerful Creator, but as "the possessor of heaven and earth." Hence the name is associated with Christ as the Son of "the Highest" (Luke 1:35). It is Elyon, as possessor of the earth, Who divides the nations "their inheritance". In Ps. 83:18, He is "over all the earth". The title occurs 36 times (6 x 6 or 62. Elyon is the Dispenser of God's blessings in the earth; the blessings proceeding from a Priest Who is a King upon His throne (cp. Gen. 14:18-22 with Zech. 6:13; 14:9). Shaddai is in every instance translated "Almighty", and is indicated by small capital letters ("ALMIGHTY"). It is God (El), not as the source of strength, but of grace; not as Creator, but as the Giver. Shaddai is the All-bountiful. This title does not refer to His creative power, but to His power to supply all the needs of His people. Its first occurrence is in Gen. 17:1, and is used to show Abraham that He Who called him out to walk alone before Him could supply all his need. Even so it is the title used in 2Cor. 6:18, where we are cal 1000 led to "come out" in separation from the world. It is always used in connection with El (see above). Adon is one of the three titles (ADON, ADONAI, and ADONIM), all generally rendered "Lord"; but each has its own peculiar usage and association. They all denote headship in various aspects. They have to do with God as "over-lord." Adon is the Lord as Ruler in the earth. We have indicated this in type by printing the preceding article or pronouns in small capitals, not because either are to be emphasized, but to distinguish the word "Lord" from Adonai, which is always so printed in the A.V. Adonai is the Lord in His relation to the earth; and as carrying out His purposes of blessing in the earth. With this limitation it is almost equivalent to Jehovah. Indeed, it was from an early date so used, by associating the vowel points of the word Jehovah with Adon, thus converting Adon into Adonai. A list of 134 passages where this was deliberately done is preserved and given in the Massorah (107-115). We have indicated these by printing the word like Jehovah, putting an asterisk, thus: LORD*. Adonim is the plural of Adon, never used of man. Adonim carries with it all that Adon does, but in a greater and higher degree; and more especially as owner and proprietor. An Adon may rule others who do not belong to him. Hence (without the article) it is often used of men. But Adonim is the Lord Who rules His own. We have indicated it by type, thus: LORD. The three may be thus briefly distinguished:-- Adon is the Lord as overlord or ruler. Adonim is the Lord as owner. Adonai is the Lord as blesser. The Types used to indicate the above titles, in the text, are as follows:-- God = Elohim. GOD = Jehovah (in combination with Adonai, "Lord"). GOD* = Jehovah in the Primitive Texts, altered by Sopherim to Elohim as the Printed Text. GOD = El. GOD = Eloah. LORD = Jehovah. THE LORD = Jah. LORD* = Jehovah in the Primitive Texts, altered by Sopherim to Adonai as in the Printed Text. Lord = Adonai. LORD = Adonim. ALMIGHTY = Shaddai. MOST HIGH = Elyon. The Combinations are indicated as follows:-- Adonai Jehovah = Lord GOD. Jehovah Elohim = LORD God. Elyon El = MOST HIGH GOD. El Shaddai = GOD ALMIGHTY

​

So those who care, or those who dare to be or become educated?

To put it in a perspective that can be more relatable?

Cause Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the "VEHICLE?"

ALL THIS! Is what's
UNDER THE HOOD!
So all this Trinitarian, Unitarian, gaslighting, tradition of man, so called "chewing of meat" and choking on hairballs, due to chewing "pablum" (which is ALREADY a liquid) is what Paul called "The Drifting Away!"

So brothers and sisters?
Do ya wanna just SIT in the vehicle?
Or you wanna GO somewhere?

 

[Matthias]

“… Greek theological formulations and Hebraic experiential memories simply are antithetical to each other.”

(Harold Bloom, Jesus and Yahweh: The Divine Names, p. 234)

Bloom (an agnostic Jew, smitten with Gnosticism) says a lot of things in his book which I consider nothing short of bizarre and blasphemous but, nevertheless, he has some good observations to share with his readers. This observation is spot on.

It is important for us to note that the New Testament does not contain Greek theological formulations. Such formulations are found in the post-biblical church, and only after gentiles became the dominant force.

We should always remember and never forget the words of Gregory of Nyssa: the Jewish dogma is heresy and has been destroyed - by the Greek theological formulations which give us the doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Matthias]

Irreconcilability of Christianity and Judaism: The title of the 19th chapter in Bloom’s 20 chapter book. The title gnaws at me. It’s right. And yet it’s also wrong.

Bloom, anticipating me, writes on p. 231 -

”THAT EVEN THE TITLE of this section will seem unfortunate to many readers is an oddity, after two thousand years of plain fact. There are doubtless political and social benefits, ongoing and crucial, that stem from the myth of the ‘Judeo-Christian tradition’, but delusions finally prove pernicious, … . ‘Christian-Jewish dialogue’ isn’t even a myth, but invariably farce. Jacob Neusner, our supreme scholar of Jewish writings from the first century before the Common Era on through at least the sixth century that were unhappily shared by Jews and Christians, pungently says that the two religions represent ‘different people talking about different things to different people’ (Jews and Christians: The Myth of a Common Tradition, 1991, 1-15).”

It’s right. Judaism and Nicene Christianity are irreconcilable.

And yet it’s wrong. Christianity began as a sect of Judaism. Judaism and primitive Christianity are reconcilable. My assertion places me in the middle, between Judaism and Nicene Christianity - and they join forces - unite with a common purpose - to grind me, a primitive Christian - into the dust of the earth.

 

[Matthias]

I would like for us to look now at another trinitarian creed - the Athanasian Creed. It too should be taught in every church.

”1. Whosoever will be saved, before all it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confusing the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So we are forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit; not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching the Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the auick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.”

Athanasian Creed

This is extraordinarily serious. Educate not only the people sitting in trinitarian churches but all of mankind.

I’m a Jewish monotheist who believes that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of the living God.

The creed asserts (as does the Nicene creed) that no one can remain a Jewish monotheist and be saved. Those who affirm the creed(s) aren’t shy - and shouldn’t be - about telling me that I‘m not saved, and cannot be saved, without converting from Jewish monotheism to trinitarianism.

“For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

(Jesus of Nazareth, Jewish monotheist, Matthew 12:37, LSB)

I hear what the Messiah says. I hear what the creed says. I want everyone to hear them too.

 

[NayborBear]

I’m a Jewish monotheist who believes that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, Son of the living God.

The creed asserts (as does the Nicene creed) that no one can remain a Jewish monotheist and be saved. Those who affirm the creed(s) aren’t shy - and shouldn’t be - about telling me that I‘m not saved, and cannot be saved, without converting from Jewish monotheism to trinitarianism.

“For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

(Jesus of Nazareth, Jewish monotheist, Matthew 12:37, LSB)

I hear what the Messiah says. I hear what the creed says. I want everyone to hear them too.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

I dunno man!
Sounds p-r-e-t-t-y Monothestic to me!

Lots of manifestations of (His) Spirit in where and what "attributes" are employed. As well as many translational, reitteratable,mis-translatabled,misunderstoodable, descriptions? Most certainly! Over the millennia? Whereas should one be fortunate to even carry forward "Just the NAME?"
One would be doing well!

 

[Matthias]

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

I dunno man!
Sounds p-r-e-t-t-y Monothestic to me!

It should. This is the God of Abraham, the God Israel, the God of the Jews, the Messiah’s God.

Lots of manifestations of (His) Spirit in where and what "attributes" are employed. As well as many translational, reitteratable,mis-translatabled,misunderstoodable, descriptions? Most certainly! Over the millennia? Whereas should one be fortunate to even carry forward "Just the NAME?"
One would be doing well!

 

[AngelicArcher]

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

I dunno man!
Sounds p-r-e-t-t-y Monothestic to me!

Lots of manifestations of (His) Spirit in where and what "attributes" are employed. As well as many translational, reitteratable,mis-translatabled,misunderstoodable, descriptions? Most certainly! Over the millennia? Whereas should one be fortunate to even carry forward "Just the NAME?"
One would be doing well!

It is monotheistic. For centuries that's been confused by a misunderstanding of basic grammar in translation of one verse.

Baptize in the name of the father,the son and the holy Spirit.
The name.
Not plural,names of. Singular,the name.

God in three separate distinct persons is not scripture. It's pagan. Tri-Theism.


This Trinity topic can't actually be discussed at all here. Despite what some claim the amended statement of faith says. Which,they've claimed, the Trinity can be discussed. It will just be monitored.

Which isn't actually true. Yes,you can read what is actually said under the SiF, closed and open handed topics header.

Close-handed issues (or closed issues) are issues that are central to being a Christian; these issues are simply not up for debate because they are what defines Christianity. If closed-handed issues are debatable, then Christianity is simply yet another religion and nothing more.

Anything stated after that that implies Trinity can be discussed violates the above policy that says otherwise.

Isaiah 43:11
I alone am the LORD, and there is no savior except me.

God is holy Spirit and the Savior being he is the word made flesh,Jesus,who deeply among us.

You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

A convoluted policy like the excerpt above, while those on Staff like Rita claim Trinity can be discussed,and monitored, insures conflict will brew around that topic.

It isn't like this community is filled with peace and the light of Christ.

Conflict keeps it active. And in the first page of results if you search, Christian discussion boards.

Tri-Theism is entirely pagan and un-biblical. It is heresy.

Three separate and distinct persons?

When GOD tells you he is one! And besides him there is no Savior!
That's it.

Trinity is a lie. Manufactured by Constantine.

Don't believe it.



And with that, I'm out.
Heresy can't be tolerated as a rule of men. Especially when Trinity doctrine dares correct God in decreeing his own identity in his own words.

God keep and bless the Christians here.

 

[Matthias]

It is monotheistic. For centuries that's been confused by a misunderstanding of basic grammar in translation of one verse.

Baptize in the name of the father,the son and the holy Spirit.
The name.
Not plural,names of. Singular,the name.

God in three separate distinct persons is not scripture. It's pagan. Tri-Theism.


This Trinity topic can't actually be discussed at all here. Despite what some claim the amended statement of faith says. Which,they've claimed, the Trinity can be discussed. It will just be monitored.

Which isn't actually true. Yes,you can read what is actually said under the SiF, closed and open handed topics header.

Close-handed issues (or closed issues) are issues that are central to being a Christian; these issues are simply not up for debate because they are what defines Christianity. If closed-handed issues are debatable, then Christianity is simply yet another religion and nothing more.

Anything stated after that that implies Trinity can be discussed violates the above policy that says otherwise.

Isaiah 43:11
I alone am the LORD, and there is no savior except me.

God is holy Spirit and the Savior being he is the word made flesh,Jesus,who deeply among us.

You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

A convoluted policy like the excerpt above, while those on Staff like Rita claim Trinity can be discussed,and monitored, insures conflict will brew around that topic.

It isn't like this community is filled with peace and the light of Christ.

Conflict keeps it active. And in the first page of results if you search, Christian discussion boards.

Tri-Theism is entirely pagan and un-biblical. It is heresy.

Three separate and distinct persons?

When GOD tells you he is one! And besides him there is no Savior!
That's it.

Trinity is a lie. Manufactured by Constantine.

Don't believe it.



And with that, I'm out.
Heresy can't be tolerated as a rule of men. Especially when Trinity doctrine dares correct God in decreeing his own identity in his own words.

God keep and bless the Christians here.

There is an option offered that you might want to consider. You could change your registration to “Other Faith”. I don’t think anyone has done it yet, and doing so would severely limit where you would be allowed to post, but it would allow you to express dissent within reason.

The trinitarian administration has said that they aren’t going to allow “Christian” members to speak against the Trinity. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

 

[shepherdsword]

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed today.

https://x.com/protestia/status/1906745852212715885?s=61

Let me say at the outset that my intention with this thread is to discuss education. This thread was not created to discuss or debate the Trinity.

I’ve been complaining for decades that the subject isn’t being taught in churches; not from the pulpit, not in Sunday School classrooms, and not in Bible studies. It should be.

From the article:

”Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox churches are trinitarian, teaching that the God of the Bible is one inseparable and unified deity comprised of three persons. Two out of three Americans claim to be Christian, leading to the expectation that they embrace the core teachings of their chosen faith.

Yet, a new research report from the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian University shows that only 11% of American adults, and only 16% of self-proclaimed Christians, believe in the trinity.

Weak Foundations

The trinity is one of the central theological foundations of Christian churches. However, that teach is widely misunderstood, often rejected, and rarely acted upon by Americans. The unfamiliarity or negligible acceptance of the trinity among self-described Christian adults raises serious ministry challenges for churches and families, in addition to creating practical dilemmas for the nation. …

’It could be argued that the primary theologians influencing the spiritual views of America these days are figures such as Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, Russell Brand, Jordan Peterson, Megyn Kelly, and Bill Maher,‘ Barna noted. ‘They mix practical and sometimes unbiblical theology and philosophical points of view into their commentary on life and world events. Meanwhile, many Christian churches are focused on delivering multi-part series that are not effectively developing or bolstering an integrated, biblical worldview that congregants can rely upon to counteract popular, secular takes on reality.’

‘We know from our national worldview tracking studies that most Americans are uninformed about the many essential biblical teachings, ranging from the Ten Commandments and the trinity, to matters related to repentance, salvation, the chief purpose of life, and divine measure of success,’ Barna noted.

’These findings about America‘s ignorance or rejection of the trinity are simply another in a long list of examples of people living without the truths and life principles of God shaping their life,’ he continued.

’These results are further evidence of the limited or lack of trust Americans have in the Bible, the limitations we place on the authority and influence on God, and our refusal to cooperate with God by living in harmony with His ways and purposes,’ Barna explained. ‘Even the statistics for the groups that are most in-tune with biblical teachings, such as belief in the nature and impact of the trinity, are shockingly low for a nation in which most people claim to be Christian.’ …”

https://www.arizonachristian.edu/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/AWVI-2025_03_Most-Americans-Reject-the-Trinity_FINAL_03_26_2025.pdf

I didn’t need the poll to tell me this. I learned it when I was a Bible college student. I observed it in the classroom as an adjunct college professor teaching in the field of Christian education, through visiting services at various churches, on the street and in discussion with people on internet discussion forums who self-identify as Christian.

I lay this appalling situation squarely at the feet of the clergy, but that doesn’t excuse those who aren’t in the clergy from the obligation of obtaining proper instruction for themselves.

I‘m renewing my call here, in this thread, for education to be provided in churches and in homes on historical orthodox trinitarianism. My hope is that others - trinitarian and non-trinitarian alike - will support this effort.

This makes absolutely no sense at all. You start a thread with a poll about the Trinity and then want it closed if the doctrine is debated?

 

[shepherdsword]

It is monotheistic. For centuries that's been confused by a misunderstanding of basic grammar in translation of one verse.

Baptize in the name of the father,the son and the holy Spirit.
The name.
Not plural,names of. Singular,the name.

God in three separate distinct persons is not scripture. It's pagan. Tri-Theism.


This Trinity topic can't actually be discussed at all here. Despite what some claim the amended statement of faith says. Which,they've claimed, the Trinity can be discussed. It will just be monitored.

Which isn't actually true. Yes,you can read what is actually said under the SiF, closed and open handed topics header.

Close-handed issues (or closed issues) are issues that are central to being a Christian; these issues are simply not up for debate because they are what defines Christianity. If closed-handed issues are debatable, then Christianity is simply yet another religion and nothing more.

Anything stated after that that implies Trinity can be discussed violates the above policy that says otherwise.

Isaiah 43:11
I alone am the LORD, and there is no savior except me.

God is holy Spirit and the Savior being he is the word made flesh,Jesus,who deeply among us.

You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.

A convoluted policy like the excerpt above, while those on Staff like Rita claim Trinity can be discussed,and monitored, insures conflict will brew around that topic.

It isn't like this community is filled with peace and the light of Christ.

Conflict keeps it active. And in the first page of results if you search, Christian discussion boards.

Tri-Theism is entirely pagan and un-biblical. It is heresy.

Three separate and distinct persons?

When GOD tells you he is one! And besides him there is no Savior!
That's it.

Trinity is a lie. Manufactured by Constantine.

Don't believe it.



And with that, I'm out.
Heresy can't be tolerated as a rule of men. Especially when Trinity doctrine dares correct God in decreeing his own identity in his own words.

God keep and bless the Christians here.

No, it's NOT monotheistic.. The hebrew word for "one" here actually PROVES the Trinity. The Hebrew word for one here is "Echad" It means a unity out of plurality. It is the same word used here:

Ge 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one (Echad) flesh.

Dt 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one (Echad) Lord:

God is ONE just as a man and wife are one. Separate beings bound together in unity.