Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

[covenantee]

That's a lie.
I said No.

The original point of this exercise was to demonstrate that "ye" in Matthew 24:2 was Jesus' twelve disciples, and "ye" in Matthew 24:15 was still Jesus' twelve disciples. It wasn't an unknown audience in an unknown future.

The relevance of Jesus' message to His disciples and continuing followers was demonstrated in 66 AD when the Judaean Christians fled and escaped annihilation in response to Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:16.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus didn't say when Luke 21 would be fulfilled.


Your the one calling Jesus a liar Not me.

Dude,

1. I never said Luke 21 would be fulfilled. So your a liar
2. I said not one stone would be left. And its fulfilled

You tried to argue, now that you have been shown to be a false teacher. You’re just on attack mode. So I will place you on ignore. And suggest everyone else do the same.. Don;t feed the troll

 

[BlessedPeace]

We see this verse in Daniel 9:27

"27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Christ refers to it in Matthew 24:15

"15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:"

The Jewish Rabbis have pushed the view that it was when in 167 B.C. a Greek ruler by the name of Antiochus Epiphanies set up an altar to Zeus over the altar of burnt offerings in the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. He also sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Temple in Jerusalem.

But it doesn't fit, as Jesus declared it looking forward in time, so was it the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And will it be a event turning the temple in Jerusalem into a place of worship for the Antichrist or the false Christ, which is truly an “abomination.” So what is the abomination of desolation.

Where?
In old Jerusalem and the Qibli Chapel. Aka, the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

 

[tailgator]

Show us your "No".
The lie is yours.

I said No.
It's not my fault you do not have eyes that can see.
Now go fall.into a pit blind man

 

[tailgator]

The original point of this exercise was to demonstrate that "ye" in Matthew 24:2 was Jesus' twelve disciples, and "ye" in Matthew 24:15 was still Jesus' twelve disciples. It wasn't an unknown audience in an unknown future.

The relevance of Jesus' message to His disciples and continuing followers was demonstrated in 66 AD when the Judaean Christians fled and escaped annihilation in response to Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:16.

Who is Jesus talking to in this verse?

Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[tailgator]

Dude,

1. I never said Luke 21 would be fulfilled. So your a liar
2. I said not one stone would be left. And its fulfilled

You tried to argue, now that you have been shown to be a false teacher. You’re just on attack mode. So I will place you on ignore. And suggest everyone else do the same.. Don;t feed the troll

Keep lying

Eternally Grateful​

Well-Known Member​

Feb 27, 202017,0729,18411359Columbus, ohioFaithChristianCountryUnited States

• Yesterday at 1:56 PM
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• #162

No,Luke 21 hasn't been fulfilled yet.

Um, yes it was, in 70 AD

• 

Reactions:covenantee

 

[covenantee]

I said No.
It's not my fault you do not have eyes that can see.
Now go fall.into a pit blind man

Link to your "No" post.

If you can.

 

[covenantee]

Who is Jesus talking to in this verse?

Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 10
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

 

[tailgator]

Link to your "No" post.

If you can.

You can't go back and find it?

Are you that lazy?

 

[tailgator]

Matthew 10
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Who is Jesus talking to saying they will be persecuted in the cities of Israel till he comes?


Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[tailgator]

Link to your "No" post.

If you can.

You even responded to my No post.
You Quoted it.

 

[covenantee]

You can't go back and find it?

Are you that lazy?

Find your own tripe.

 

[covenantee]

You even responded to my No post.
You Quoted it.

Then should be simple to link.

So why can't you?

 

[covenantee]

Who is Jesus talking to saying they will be persecuted in the cities of Israel till he comes?


Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

See post 248.

 

[CTK]

He did come after, He entered jerusalem on a donkey as prophesies at the end of the 62 week. that left only 1 week left

He did come riding on a donkey at the END OF HIS MINISTRY. This would be 3.5 years after He began His ministry. That would be the Passover week.

Yes, But there are prophetic Gaps all over the OT prophecies. which is part of the hidden mystery paul spoke of..

Don't know about any gaps elsewhere, but in Daniel, the prophecy is for a 490 consecutive year prophecy... It starts and ends at the same time as the 4th and final Great Jubilee Cycle. Again, the last 7 years of the prophecy were specifically set aside for the coming of the Messiah and His mission (9:24) to fulfill. He also set up His church, and would send His holy spirit on Pentecost. This last week He would:

1) travel throughout Israel preaching the Good News - began after His baptism in the Jordan on the first day of the 70th week.
2) He would preach for 3.5 years,
3) He would come to Jerusalem riding on a donkey during the 4th Passover Festival - His last when He would be crucified.
4) If you notice in 9:24 -27, everything is tied together:
a) the last 7 years of the prophecy He would fulfill the 6 requirements,
b) He would be cut off (crucified) in the "midst of the week," (last week of the prophecy,
c) He would confirm the New Covenant with His people DURING (NOT FOR) this same 7 year period,
d) He shall bring an end to the sacrifices and offerings - as a result of His perfect sacrifice, it would do away with any further need for animal sacrifices or offerings. Now, the Temple, the Sanctuary, the Levitical ceremonies, the four spring feast days --- all of these would now be fulfilled by the Messiah. They were only a "type and shadow" of His coming. They could never be destroyed by man despite the complete destruction by the Babylonians. God would restore them as outlined in the 70 week prophecy because they were never meant to be destroyed only fulfilled.

If you read Dan 9, you will see, at the end of the 69 week. Many things and many years happen before the start of the 70th week when the prince who is to come confirms some covenant with many for 1 week. that week being the 70th

No, Daniel is not written in a linear or chronolgolical manner. I have not yet spent the time to do so, but I believe these four verses are written in a "chiastic" structure. There is no time separating the 69th year from the 70th year.
It is the Messiah who will confirm the covenant with His people... not the "prince who is to come." Only God enters into a covenant with His people and this New Covenant is confirmed by His crucifixion and the covenant is the one mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The "prince who is to come" represents a future power that will come" well after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. It is the "people of the prince who is to come" who will destroy the Temple in 70 AD - that would be the pagan Roman army lead by Titus. These are "the people of the coming prince." The coming prince is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 who will come to power after pagan Rome is slain and its body destroyed (7:11). Thus, the people who were ruled by pagan Rome will now become people of the little horn who will replace pagan Rome with papal Rome. They will follow the false teachings of the little horn... he won't come to full power until after 500 AD.

 

[CTK]

if he did he did not do a very good job.. The city lies in ruins, The people are in sin.. and still scattered all over the world. and hated by just about everyone.

I agree with you. The Jews have rejected and crucified their Messiah, and for the next 2000 years, they would become "desolate" with their God until the time of the Gentiles is over.

This was all within God's plan of salvation for the Jews and mankind before the foundation of the world. Nothing that took place during the last week was not within God's plan.

Ok now your adding the church, STOP.

the church has no part of the 70 weeks. it concerns Daniels people. Israel. Not the church..

Yes, but that is not part of the 70 weeks.

the 70 weeks are given to let Daniel kno9w. Your people are still in sin,, They will continue in sin for another 70 weeks. But at the end of those 70 weeks. they will make an end of their sin and transgressions.

if he did he did not do a very good job.. The city lies in ruins, The people are in sin.. and still scattered all over the world. and hated by just about everyone.

Ok now your adding the church, STOP.

the church has no part of the 70 weeks. it concerns Daniels people. Israel. Not the church..

Yes, but that is not part of the 70 weeks.

the 70 weeks are given to let Daniel kno9w. Your people are still in sin,, They will continue in sin for another 70 weeks. But at the end of those 70 weeks. they will make an end of their sin and transgressions.

 

[CTK]

I agree with you. The Jews have rejected and crucified their Messiah, and for the next 2000 years, they would become "desolate" with their God until the time of the Gentiles is over.

This was all within God's plan of salvation for the Jews and mankind before the foundation of the world. Nothing that took place during the last week was not within God's plan.

I agree with you. The Jews have rejected and crucified their Messiah, and for the next 2000 years, they would become "desolate" with their God until the time of the Gentiles is over.

This was all within God's plan of salvation for the Jews and mankind before the foundation of the world. Nothing that took place during the last week was not within God's plan.

I agree with you. The Jews have rejected and crucified their Messiah, and for the next 2000 years, they would become "desolate" with their God until the time of the Gentiles is over.

This was all within God's plan of salvation for the Jews and mankind before the foundation of the world. Nothing that took place during the last week was not within God's plan.

if he did he did not do a very good job.. The city lies in ruins, The people are in sin.. and still scattered all over the world. and hated by just about everyone.

Ok now your adding the church, STOP.

the church has no part of the 70 weeks. it concerns Daniels people. Israel. Not the church..

Yes, but that is not part of the 70 weeks.

the 70 weeks are given to let Daniel kno9w. Your people are still in sin,, They will continue in sin for another 70 weeks. But at the end of those 70 weeks. they will make an end of their sin and transgressions.

The church does not have a part in the 70 weeks, but the prophecy does tell us the city and the sanctuary will be destoryed. And that will take place in 70 AD. And it will be destroyed by the "people" of the "prince who is to come." Meaning, it is not Titus because he let the pagan Roman army to destroy everything. It is the "people" who will come to follow this "prince who is to come." And that is exactly what happened. Pagan Rome fell and was replaced by papal Rome and the little horn in 500 AD.

 

[CTK]

He made me God's temple.

thats fin, But you need proof. just disagreeing will nto help convince me

once again, this is not about the cross. This is God answerig daniels prayer. have you ever read the first part of Daniel 9? Daniel did not ask Jesus to come die on the cross to pay for sin, He asked God to remember his people and his city.. (srael and Jerusalem. And the temple.

any context taken outside of this, is in error

Of course this is about the cross. The entire chapter 9 is about God's foregiveness and specifically, 9:24-27 speaks about the last week in the prophecy - all the things the Messiah will do during His last 3.5 years of His ministry. This is what Daniel is prophecising about... It is all about His plan of restoration for the Jews AND mankind.

Daniel had absolutely no concept of his God coming to earth in the form of a man who would sacrifice Himself for the sin of the world. He was not meant to understand this..... God certainly did forgive His people and arrived exactly as written in 9:24-27.

I would not call it an abomination. I would call it God allowed them to take him, to pay for sins, Even jesus said, forgive them father, they know not what they do.

Face it, If God did nto allow it. No man could have touched Jesus.

But this still does nto matter, the only thing about the crucifixion in Dan 9 is that messiah will be cut off. that it period.

an Abomination which causes desolation by definition is an idle or unclean things put in a holy place. rendering it unclean.

Jesus said in Matt 24. when you see it STANDING in the Holy Place. Run, for then there will be great tribulation such as has never been seen before.

The cross is not this abomination

Well, I understand your thoughts but I will have to disagree. The verses in 9:24-27 are messianic... His arrival, His mission, His confirmation of the New Covenant, His death on the cross (cut off), His decision to "make desolate" His people for rejecting and crucifying Him on the cross. The physical destruction of the Temple, the Sanctuary, etc. that would take place 40 years later. The coming of the "prince" some 450 years later.... this is all about God and His plan of restoration and salvation for the Jews and mankind. And this would be accomplished by the cross... there is no other way to salvation than to believe in Jesus and His sacrifice to take away our sin.

This is refering to other prophecies like that in ez 37, when God says at that time, Israel will not longer worship her idols. or

Ezek 37; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

This in certainly truth. But this refers to when God will determine the timing of the Gentiles is over. Then, He will remove the blindness from their eyes and they will recognize the One they had pierced. They will be cleansed and once again, be their God --- their time of desolation is over.

And God will. Paul even mentions this in Romans 11..

Again, Dan 9 is about Israel. Not gentiles. The gentiles, whether they were believers or not. were not daniels people. Their city was not jerusalem, and their temple was not the jewish temple in jerusalem.

I agree with you, but after the Jews rejected their Messiah, He would commission His followers to go out into the world (pagan or Gentile world) and preach the Good News to them. The Great Commission.

Once again, You need context of Gabriels answer to Daniels prayer

here is Daniels prayer ending and who daniel was praying for

16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

This is the context

Your city
Your people
Your sanctuary.

Anything outside of these parameters is not holding in context with the prayer or Gods answer to that prayer. the 70 weeks.

Again, I am not disagreeing with you at all. The 70 weeks of years prophecy was specifically written for the Jews and His city. It documented the complete restoration of His people and the city after the complete destruction by the Babylonians. It specifically called out the things (physical) that had to be restored during the first 49 years by the Jews and it specifically identified those things that the Messiah would and could only fulfill in the last week of the prohecy. So, yes, everything you are saying is right, but the Jews rejected their Messiah and now, He would send His followers out into the world. They would establish His church which initially included only Jews. But the church would grow exponentially and bring in millions of Gentiles who would accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. This would be God's earthly church but over the coming 400 years, His church would remove all Jewish presence from it, it would become dominated by the Gentiles who wanted power and supremecy over this church. But this does not change the purpose of the 70 weeks of years prophecy.

 

[CTK]

thats fin, But you need proof. just disagreeing will nto help convince me

I am alittle lost ... not your fault.... What proof would you need for you to see a different interpretation than the one you currently have?

The most important question to ask might be ": do you think the prophecies in Daniel are written about the Jews, His city and their coming Messiah or the Jews, His city and some mythical and completely mythical antiChrist figure that was dreamed up by the RCC in the 16th century AD?

Please try to consider that all of chapter 9 is about God's plan of forgiveness with His people after their 70 year punishment in Babylon, and His revealing how He would fully restore both His people and His city over a 490 year consecutive period WITH it culminating in the arrival of the Messiah.

once again, this is not about the cross. This is God answerig daniels prayer. have you ever read the first part of Daniel 9? Daniel did not ask Jesus to come die on the cross to pay for sin, He asked God to remember his people and his city.. (srael and Jerusalem. And the temple.

any context taken outside of this, is in error

I would not call it an abomination. I would call it God allowed them to take him, to pay for sins, Even jesus said, forgive them father, they know not what they do.

Face it, If God did nto allow it. No man could have touched Jesus.

But this still does nto matter, the only thing about the crucifixion in Dan 9 is that messiah will be cut off. that it period.

an Abomination which causes desolation by definition is an idle or unclean things put in a holy place. rendering it unclean.

Jesus said in Matt 24. when you see it STANDING in the Holy Place. Run, for then there will be great tribulation such as has never been seen before.

The cross is not this abomination



This is refering to other prophecies like that in ez 37, when God says at that time, Israel will not longer worship her idols. or

Ezek 37; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

And God will. Paul even mentions this in Romans 11..

Again, Dan 9 is about Israel. Not gentiles. The gentiles, whether they were believers or not. were not daniels people. Their city was not jerusalem, and their temple was not the jewish temple in jerusalem.


Once again, You need context of Gabriels answer to Daniels prayer

here is Daniels prayer ending and who daniel was praying for

16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

This is the context

Your city
Your people
Your sanctuary.

Anything outside of these parameters is not holding in context with the prayer or Gods answer to that prayer. the 70 weeks.

 

[covenantee]

The "prince who is to come" represents a future power that will come" well after the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. It is the "people of the prince who is to come" who will destroy the Temple in 70 AD - that would be the pagan Roman army lead by Titus. These are "the people of the coming prince." The coming prince is the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 who will come to power after pagan Rome is slain and its body destroyed (7:11). Thus, the people who were ruled by pagan Rome will now become people of the little horn who will replace pagan Rome with papal Rome. They will follow the false teachings of the little horn... he won't come to full power until after 500 AD.

There is only one individual in Daniel 9 identified as a prince.
He is Messiah the Prince.
The grammatical antecdent/referent of "the prince" in Daniel 9:26 is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.
The people of Messiah the Prince were the Roman armies (Luke 21:20, Matthew 24:15) who were His servants of judgment, destruction, and desolation upon apostate Israel.
Further, the grammatical antecedent/referent of the "he's" in Daniel 9:27 is "the prince" in Daniel 9:26, i.e. Messiah the Prince".
It was Messiah the Prince who confirmed the Covenant with many. Daniel 9:27, Matthew 26:28
It was Messiah the Prince who caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease, at Calvary.

The passage is all about Messiah the Prince.