Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

[TribulationSigns]

John identified you.

1. 1 John 4:3
   And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
   
   
2. 2 John 1:7
   For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

"Confess not" is the refusal to confess, which is the same as the refusal to affirm.

Are you smoking or something? I did confess Jesus came in flesh when I was saved over 45 years ago. I did have the spirit of antichrist before I was born again and has NEVER denied that Christ came in flesh ever since. You do have a problem accepting this.

Grow up, child, and get back to the subject.

 

[covenantee]

Are you smoking or something? I did confess Jesus came in flesh when I was saved over 45 years ago. I did have the spirit of antichrist before I was born again and has NEVER denied that Christ came in flesh ever since. You do have a problem accepting this.

Grow up, child, and get back to the subject.

Is your confession now the same as it was when you were saved?

 

[TribulationSigns]

Is your confession now the same as it was when you were saved?

Doubt much? Like I said, you have a problem accepting this.

 

[covenantee]

Doubt much? Like I said, you have a problem accepting this.

You're going to absurd lengths to avoid confessing that Christ came in the flesh.

Why is that?

 

[TribulationSigns]

You're going to absurd lengths to avoid confessing that Christ came in the flesh.

Why is that?

No - why is it that you STILL questioned my confession that Christ came in flesh? You did this to distract the subject that you can't gainsay or resist my testimony of truth. Grow up.

 

[covenantee]

No - why is it that you STILL questioned my confession that Christ came in flesh. Grow up.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

"I hereby unconditionally confess that Christ came in the flesh".

Copy, paste, and post.

Waiting.

 

[CTK]

occured literally the week the 69th week ended. If it was a continuation, it would have been the begining of the 70th week. not in the middle

Let me ask you ... in the "restorative" verse, Gabriel tells us the Messiah will come AFTER the 62 weeks of the prophecy. And of course, the 62 weeks can only come after the completion of the 7 weeks. Therefore, the Messiah will arrive AFTER the completion of the total period of 69 weeks leaving the final week or 7 years for Him to fulfill His God given mission. He did not arrive BEFORE end of the 62 weeks but AFTER. Not to sound rude, but 70 does come after 69 in .... well, just about everything.

 

[CTK]

Also. Jesus did not complete these in his ministry, the prophecy concerns the nation of Israel and the city and temple.. Non of these things to this day have been fulfilled.

Certainly He did. There is not one that He left unfulfilled. The prophecy is / was indeed WRITTEN FOR the Jews and the city, but the most important issue is the complete restoration of everything that was either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. The Jews would be successful in restoring their elements, and this would leave only one element remaining to be fulfilled in the final week of the prophecy -it would be the restoration of the Ark of the Covenant, the last piece of furniture to be restored by the only One who could restore it - the coming Messiah. He would restore the presence of God in the Sanctuary. He was given the last week for Him to fulfill His 6 requirements of 9:24, He would set up His church, He would send His Holy Spirit on Pentecost. All of this took place within the last week of the prophecy. It is all about Him.

Remember, He came to sacrifice Himself to take away the sin of the world... all sin, whether a transgression, sin or iniquity. Jesus did not come to take away man's sin nature. But for those who believe in Him and accept His sacrifice on the cross, He will no longer see or remember their sins at His second coming. Only then will we be perfected in His site. Also, Jesus was indedd anointed by His Father at the same time He was baptized in the Jordan by John. And He also "sealed up" or "fulfilled" the 70 weeks of years vision and prophecy. Again, everything that was to take place per the 70 week of years prophecy was indeed fulfilled or "sealed up."

 

[CTK]

I agree

Here is where we break off.

The cross occured literally the week the 69th week ended. If it was a continuation, it would have been the begining of the 70th week. not in the middle

Again agree

the restorative done by the jew, happened in the first section, or the first 7 weeks of years.
I can see that the things in verse 24 can only be brought about by Jesus, But the reality is, these things will be fulfilled. if they have not been fulfilled. then we can determin one of 2 things.

1. The prophecy is in error (many jews believe this, in fact they reject the book of daniel as part of the OT)
2. That the 70 weeks are not yet complete (my view)

Also. Jesus did not complete these in his ministry, the prophecy concerns the nation of Israel and the city and temple.. Non of these things to this day have been fulfilled.

But the timeline does not fit.

Messiah the prince is introduced to Jerusalem as its messiah in fulfilment of the prophecy. when he entered Jerusalem on a donkey. This was the last week of the 69th week of years.. The first day of the 70th week would have been the day after this.

But as the prophet said. THEN the messiah will be cut off (literally killed) which was last fulfilled. in that this same week messiah was hung on a cross.

But it is has many flaws. and would not convince me their is no gap.

But it is not fulfilled
1. Israel is still in sin
2. Since she is still in sin, She has not completed her transgressions nor has she made an end of her sins. which means at least 2 of the things which will be completed at the end of the 70th week have not yet happened.
3. as far as the next three, We have alot of prophecy yet to be fulfilled. so it has not yet been sealed up. let alone, has everlasting righteousness been completed. Have you looked at the news lately? Do you walk out of your house and see all the sin in the world. If you think this is the righteous kingdom God promised. Ouch!! God must not be that great if a God.

this is impossible for a few reaons.

1. The jews did nto crucify him, they had no authority. the Romans did (if we really want to get technical. every one of us did, because he died for our sins)
2. An abomination of desolation is an idol or inclean thing in the holy place. Jesus is not an unclean thing, nor is he a pagan idol..

I strongly disagree. First, the cross was in God's plans since the foundation of the world. But of course, it would have to take place during and by mankind. The Jews certainly rejected their Messiah and along with the Romans did crucify Him.

There can be no greater "abomination" that the rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah. It can not be a building, the Temple, the Sanctuary or anything that could be destoyed that could possibly compare to this. As a result of their part in His crucifixion, God would indeed make "desolate" His relationship with His people untile the time of the Gentiles is completed.

Oh, I forgot to mention one thing regarding 9:24 - righteousness. There is no one on this earth that has or will ever be considered righteous no matter how nice or good they are. Only God possesses this trait. He alone is righteous. He is our everlasting righteousness and He will put His righteousness back into us, as He did with Adam, for all those who have placed their faith and trust in Him.

that is why I preach over and over we need to get the defenition of what it is right. If we do this, we would not have so many mistakes.

But they do have access to him, I know many jews who have been saved and are God fearing God walking children of God

I agree, there are many Jews who have come to accept Jesus as their Messiah. But corporately, the Jews still reject Him and they are awaiting the first coming of their Messiah. They still believe they have to reconstruct the Temple, the sacrificial services, the offerings, etc. Only God will be able to make them recognize Him as the One they pierced in a "corporate" level... Just as He did with Paul.

But the nation is still in sin.

There is neither Jew nor Greek..... there is not one on this earth that has not sinned. The Jews are no different than Gentiles in their inability to stop sinning. It is our human nature - not a Jewish or Gentile nature. Christians today sin each and every day... it will not stop, but if they place their true faith in Jesus, He will not remember or see those sins at His second coming.

God promised them the destruction in lev 26, he told them this would happen if they turn from him, so it should have been no suprise to them

but he also promised them he would restore them if they repent, stop their transgressions and sins, and turn to him.

Well this is what the prophets say will happen. and guess what, when it does, We know when, the end of the 70th week..

 

[TribulationSigns]

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

"I hereby unconditionally confess that Christ came in the flesh".

Copy, paste, and post.

Waiting.

Here, I will make you reread this. I did not need your approval. God did.

"I did confess Jesus came in flesh when I was saved over 45 years ago. I did have the spirit of antichrist before I was born again and has NEVER denied that Christ came in flesh ever since. You do have a problem accepting this?"

I am done with you for tonight since you were not serious discussing my posts concerning the temple of Matthew 24:1-2. You remain refuted. Good night.

 

[CTK]

Yes, "them" and "ye" and "you" in Matthew 24:2 are Jesus' disciples.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

What about Matthew 24:15? Are "ye" still Jesus' disciples in that verse?

In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus responds to His disciples with the quote mentioned above in Matthew 25:15. Matthew is specifically written for or to the Jews telling them Jesus is indeed their Messiah, their King, their Prince.... Look at what Jesus is saying, "when you see the AOD (Jesus being crucifified) ... let him understand.... and He purposefully points back to Daniel. Specifically, in Daniel 25 - one of the two "restorative" verses. He is their Messiah. And, like any king, one would definitely expect to see a king standing within the holy place - that is where a king should be standing. And Jesus did stand there.

However, in Mark, he offers a very different statement made by Jesus - exact same time and audience. But Mark's Gospel is not speaking to the Jews but to the Gentiles. The Gospel of Mark speaks about Jesus, not as a king or prince, but as a "suffering sevant." And Mark also mentions the phrase that would be said by Jesus..."when you see the AOD standing in a place where he does not belong....." Why would Jesus say this? Because He came as our perfect sacrifice. He is / was indeed our suffering servant and NO servant belongs in the holy place - that is not where servants belong. Jesus is providing different ways to see HIm.. as a conquering king and a suffering servant. And in Mark's Gospel, Jesus is not referring to the same verse as in Matthew. Instead, He is referring to verse 26 - the "destructive" verse where He would be cuts off.

So Jesus is indeed telling His disciples, and us, just who is the AOD is.... can you possibly find an action or event in man's history that could compare to His rejection and crucifixion? The first Temple, the Sanctuary, the streets, the walls, everything was completely destoryed by the Babylonians ... nothing is of greater value could rise to the level of an "abomination" that the cross. And this is why He would make "desolate" His relationship with His people for over 2000 years - the time of the Gentiles. Then, He will restore their sight and they will recognize the One they have pierced.

And if you do not mind, there is another very important verse in Matthew that has been so misunderstood... In Matthew, there is a verse that says, "that unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved." EVERYONE contends this is an end time event ususally tied to some mythical anti-Christ figure during a unScriptural 7 year tribulation (there is absolutely no 7 year tribulation). But his particular phrase speaks to the Messiah. The Messiah was crucified exactly 3.5 years (in the midst of the week) of the 7 years of the prophecy. It was Jesus who WILLINGLY went to the cross to say us from our sins. Without the cross, whether Jew of Gentile, NO ONE will pass into heaven with the Lord UNLESS they accept His sacrifice on the cross. Meaning, it was Jesus who willingly shortened those days, and went to the cross, othwerwise no flesh would or could ever be saved.

 

[covenantee]

Here, I will make you reread this. I did not need your approval. God did.

"I did confess Jesus came in flesh when I was saved over 45 years ago. I did have the spirit of antichrist before I was born again and has NEVER denied that Christ came in flesh ever since. You do have a problem accepting this?"

I am done with you for tonight since you were not serious discussing my posts concerning the temple of Matthew 24:1-2. You reminded refuted. Good night.

As expected.

Explained by:

Gnosticism. "...matter is inherently evil and spirit is good...real life exists in the spirit realm only."

 

[covenantee]

In Matthew's Gospel, Jesus responds to His disciples with the quote mentioned above in Matthew 25:15. Matthew is specifically written for or to the Jews telling them Jesus is indeed their Messiah, their King, their Prince.... Look at what Jesus is saying, "when you see the AOD (Jesus being crucifified) ... let him understand.... and He purposefully points back to Daniel. Specifically, in Daniel 25 - one of the two "restorative" verses. He is their Messiah. And, like any king, one would definitely expect to see a king standing within the holy place - that is where a king should be standing. And Jesus did stand there.

However, in Mark, he offers a very different statement made by Jesus - exact same time and audience. But Mark's Gospel is not speaking to the Jews but to the Gentiles. The Gospel of Mark speaks about Jesus, not as a king or prince, but as a "suffering sevant." And Mark also mentions the phrase that would be said by Jesus..."when you see the AOD standing in a place where he does not belong....." Why would Jesus say this? Because He came as our perfect sacrifice. He is / was indeed our suffering servant and NO servant belongs in the holy place - that is not where servants belong. Jesus is providing different ways to see HIm.. as a conquering king and a suffering servant. And in Mark's Gospel, Jesus is not referring to the same verse as in Matthew. Instead, He is referring to verse 26 - the "destructive" verse where He would be cuts off.

So Jesus is indeed telling His disciples, and us, just who is the AOD is.... can you possibly find an action or event in man's history that could compare to His rejection and crucifixion? The first Temple, the Sanctuary, the streets, the walls, everything was completely destoryed by the Babylonians ... nothing is of greater value could rise to the level of an "abomination" that the cross. And this is why He would make "desolate" His relationship with His people for over 2000 years - the time of the Gentiles. Then, He will restore their sight and they will recognize the One they have pierced.

And if you do not mind, there is another very important verse in Matthew that has been so misunderstood... In Matthew, there is a verse that says, "that unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved." EVERYONE contends this is an end time event ususally tied to some mythical anti-Christ figure during a unScriptural 7 year tribulation (there is absolutely no 7 year tribulation). But his particular phrase speaks to the Messiah. The Messiah was crucified exactly 3.5 years (in the midst of the week) of the 7 years of the prophecy. It was Jesus who WILLINGLY went to the cross to say us from our sins. Without the cross, whether Jew of Gentile, NO ONE will pass into heaven with the Lord UNLESS they accept His sacrifice on the cross. Meaning, it was Jesus who willingly shortened those days, and went to the cross, othwerwise no flesh would or could ever be saved.

I concur with your observations. However, there is a more direct identification and explanation of the AOD. It is found in Luke 21:20, the synoptic counterpart to Matthew 24:15. Luke identifies the armies advancing on Jerusalem (which were the Roman armies, the armies commissioned by Messiah to destroy Jerusalem) as the AOD. They were an abomination to the Jews because of the pagan idolatrous ensigns which they bore in battle, and which they worshiped. And they brought the prophesied desolation to Jerusalem and the apostate nation of Israel which had rejected Messiah. All of these fulfillments are Scripturally and historically confirmed.

Dispensational futurism attempts to deny these realities and substitute its own figments, fallacies, and fantasies.

It fails.

 

[tailgator]

Neither are you, since you did not come to Jesus "for to shew him the buildings of the temple".

I learn from Jesus since before I received the holy Ghost.It was Jesus who taught me how to pray even.It was Jesus who taught me the great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation takes place at the time of the end when the resurrection takes place.


If Jesus had not said this in the gospel,I would have never known it.You could learn from Jesus if you would pay attention to his words..


Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

 

[TribulationSigns]

As expected.

Explained by:

Gnosticism. "...matter is inherently evil and spirit is good...real life exists in the spirit realm only."

Huh? What does gnosticism have anything to do with my confession in Christ you demanded? You do not make any sense. Here you go again, changing issues.

-- snip --

No more pearls before the swing.

 

[MA2444]

No guess required. You refuse to explicitly affirm that Christ came in the literal physical flesh.

He sure did didnt he? I know what your doing here and it's bringing truth to the scriptures.

They either answer or they dodge it. He repeatedly dodges it.

 

[MA2444]

"I agree but but but its also political or physical" Huh? Based on what Scripture?

Huh? Political is not scripture it's current events with humans on earth. Now of course the war is spiritual we know that from Ephesians 6. We also know it from Daniel 9 when the Angel says as soon as Daniel started praying he was dispatched to go to Daniel, but he got help up for 21 days by the prince of the power pf Persia, an evil spirit. A powerful one and he had to fight and even call in back up. Spiritual war.

Butt! If there is a prince of the power of Persia, dont you believe that there is a prince of the power of the United States? Probably is! So what do you think his job is? Oh! Steal, kill and destroy. So uh, tell me. Arent they the ones behind all of the worldwide destruction? Goading our leaders to bomb the crap out of them and they'll fall in line....Of course they are! And the people in Washington that they lead are political people. Gotta get elected again. But it isnt two wars, it is one war and that part is spiritual and earths part is physical and even yes, Political.

And you dont need scripture to look around you at the world and figure that out, geez.

Sounds like you are a fan of the newspaper eschatology.

I dont read the newspaper. Why was it in the paper too? I dont know if it's true and I never said I did so you can sit on your escatology remark, lol. Who knows if it will come to pass or not? It is after it happens that people find out if it was true or not.

What I do know is just to be safe, I aint booking no vacations to Miami!

Sounds like what I have been telling you guys all along!

You aint the Lord.

The Lord will tell you about what's going on "behind the scenes"

I didnt say that at all. He said if I have a need to know something that He will tell me.
He also said there is a very lot going on behind the scenes that we never even get to hear about.

Perhaps you have me confused with Paul or Moses? Nah that's not me. I am Nobody. So I doubt I would ever have a need to know those things!
That aint me, lol. He didnt say He would tell me everything. Only what I needed to know. That's all.

Why you tryna be provocative? Looking for a fight? Can't you just talk instead?

 

[covenantee]

I learn from Jesus since before I received the holy Ghost.It was Jesus who taught me how to pray even.It was Jesus who taught me the great tribulation caused by the abomination of desolation takes place at the time of the end when the resurrection takes place.


If Jesus had not said this in the gospel,I would have never known it.You could learn from Jesus if you would pay attention to his words..


Daniel 12:1-2
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to reproach and everlasting shame.

You claimed to be a disciple.

But you're not. You didn't come to Jesus "for to shew him the buildings of the temple".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The western wall was not destroyed.The stones were to heavy for the Romans so they buried them.
They remained on top of each other.

So I can just ignore the historical word of people who actually came to the site afterwords?

Josephus: it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited.

Other historians stated that the only thing left standing was the roman fortress (or Antonia)

But hey, If you want to call jesus a liar. feel free.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you positive all.of Luke 21 was fulfilled in 70 ad as you said in this post?

No

I am possitive the destruction of the city, and no stone being left was completed in AD 70. and historians who visited the city after confirm it