Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

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Eternally Grateful

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Dude Luke 21 was not fulfilled in 70 AD.
Dude,

the city was destroyed in AD 70;. and one stone was not left on another as Jesus said.

I never said the whole of Luke 21 was fulfilled. So you have a major comprehension problem.

Once again, Your pride runs deep..
 

Eternally Grateful

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Let me ask you ... in the "restorative" verse, Gabriel tells us the Messiah will come AFTER the 62 weeks of the prophecy. And of course, the 62 weeks can only come after the completion of the 7 weeks. Therefore, the Messiah will arrive AFTER the completion of the total period of 69 weeks leaving the final week or 7 years for Him to fulfill His God given mission. He did not arrive BEFORE end of the 62 weeks but AFTER.
He did come after, He entered jerusalem on a donkey as prophesies at the end of the 62 week. that left only 1 week left
Not to sound rude, but 70 does come after 69 in .... well, just about everything.
Yes, But there are prophetic Gaps all over the OT prophecies. which is part of the hidden mystery paul spoke of..

If you read Dan 9, you will see, at the end of the 69 week. Many things and many years happen before the start of the 70th week when the prince who is to come confirms some covenant with many for 1 week. that week being the 70th
 

Eternally Grateful

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Certainly He did.
if he did he did not do a very good job.. The city lies in ruins, The people are in sin.. and still scattered all over the world. and hated by just about everyone.
There is not one that He left unfulfilled. The prophecy is / was indeed WRITTEN FOR the Jews and the city, but the most important issue is the complete restoration of everything that was either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. The Jews would be successful in restoring their elements, and this would leave only one element remaining to be fulfilled in the final week of the prophecy -it would be the restoration of the Ark of the Covenant, the last piece of furniture to be restored by the only One who could restore it - the coming Messiah. He would restore the presence of God in the Sanctuary. He was given the last week for Him to fulfill His 6 requirements of 9:24, He would set up His church, He would send His Holy Spirit on Pentecost. All of this took place within the last week of the prophecy. It is all about Him.
Ok now your adding the church, STOP.

the church has no part of the 70 weeks. it concerns Daniels people. Israel. Not the church..
Remember, He came to sacrifice Himself to take away the sin of the world... all sin, whether a transgression, sin or iniquity. Jesus did not come to take away man's sin nature. But for those who believe in Him and accept His sacrifice on the cross, He will no longer see or remember their sins at His second coming. Only then will we be perfected in His site. Also, Jesus was indedd anointed by His Father at the same time He was baptized in the Jordan by John. And He also "sealed up" or "fulfilled" the 70 weeks of years vision and prophecy. Again, everything that was to take place per the 70 week of years prophecy was indeed fulfilled or "sealed up."
Yes, but that is not part of the 70 weeks.

the 70 weeks are given to let Daniel kno9w. Your people are still in sin,, They will continue in sin for another 70 weeks. But at the end of those 70 weeks. they will make an end of their sin and transgressions.
 

Eternally Grateful

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I strongly disagree.
thats fin, But you need proof. just disagreeing will nto help convince me
First, the cross was in God's plans since the foundation of the world.
once again, this is not about the cross. This is God answerig daniels prayer. have you ever read the first part of Daniel 9? Daniel did not ask Jesus to come die on the cross to pay for sin, He asked God to remember his people and his city.. (srael and Jerusalem. And the temple.

any context taken outside of this, is in error
But of course, it would have to take place during and by mankind. The Jews certainly rejected their Messiah and along with the Romans did crucify Him.

There can be no greater "abomination" that the rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah. It can not be a building, the Temple, the Sanctuary or anything that could be destoyed that could possibly compare to this. As a result of their part in His crucifixion, God would indeed make "desolate" His relationship with His people untile the time of the Gentiles is completed.
I would not call it an abomination. I would call it God allowed them to take him, to pay for sins, Even jesus said, forgive them father, they know not what they do.

Face it, If God did nto allow it. No man could have touched Jesus.

But this still does nto matter, the only thing about the crucifixion in Dan 9 is that messiah will be cut off. that it period.

an Abomination which causes desolation by definition is an idle or unclean things put in a holy place. rendering it unclean.

Jesus said in Matt 24. when you see it STANDING in the Holy Place. Run, for then there will be great tribulation such as has never been seen before.

The cross is not this abomination


Oh, I forgot to mention one thing regarding 9:24 - righteousness. There is no one on this earth that has or will ever be considered righteous no matter how nice or good they are. Only God possesses this trait. He alone is righteous. He is our everlasting righteousness and He will put His righteousness back into us, as He did with Adam, for all those who have placed their faith and trust in Him.
This is refering to other prophecies like that in ez 37, when God says at that time, Israel will not longer worship her idols. or

Ezek 37; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
I agree, there are many Jews who have come to accept Jesus as their Messiah. But corporately, the Jews still reject Him and they are awaiting the first coming of their Messiah. They still believe they have to reconstruct the Temple, the sacrificial services, the offerings, etc. Only God will be able to make them recognize Him as the One they pierced in a "corporate" level... Just as He did with Paul.
And God will. Paul even mentions this in Romans 11..
There is neither Jew nor Greek..... there is not one on this earth that has not sinned. The Jews are no different than Gentiles in their inability to stop sinning. It is our human nature - not a Jewish or Gentile nature. Christians today sin each and every day... it will not stop, but if they place their true faith in Jesus, He will not remember or see those sins at His second coming.
Again, Dan 9 is about Israel. Not gentiles. The gentiles, whether they were believers or not. were not daniels people. Their city was not jerusalem, and their temple was not the jewish temple in jerusalem.


Once again, You need context of Gabriels answer to Daniels prayer

here is Daniels prayer ending and who daniel was praying for

16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

This is the context

Your city
Your people
Your sanctuary.

Anything outside of these parameters is not holding in context with the prayer or Gods answer to that prayer. the 70 weeks.
 

tailgator

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So I can just ignore the historical word of people who actually came to the site afterwords?

Josephus: it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited.

Other historians stated that the only thing left standing was the roman fortress (or Antonia)

But hey, If you want to call jesus a liar. feel free.
The western wall which remains standing today was standing then too.It was buried by the Romans but the stones remained one atop the other.
 

tailgator

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Dude,

the city was destroyed in AD 70;. and one stone was not left on another as Jesus said.

I never said the whole of Luke 21 was fulfilled. So you have a major comprehension problem.

Once again, Your pride runs deep..
I had stated ,Luke 21 has not been fulfilled.
You then said it was in 70 ad.

Dude.
 

covenantee

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Your asking me was I alive 2000 years ago?
No.

I'm one of Jesus students who sees prophecies being fulfilled in my lifetime.
You're telling us you were alive 2,000 years ago, because you claimed to be a disciple, and the disciples came to Jesus "for to shew him the buildings of the temple".

But you didn't.

Your claim was false.
 

TribulationSigns

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Now of course the war is spiritual we know that from Ephesians 6.

Congratulations on this first step.

We also know it from Daniel 9 when the Angel says as soon as Daniel started praying he was dispatched to go to Daniel, but he got help up for 21 days by the prince of the power pf Persia, an evil spirit. A powerful one and he had to fight and even call in back up. Spiritual war.

Spiritual war, indeed. But do you even understand who is the prince of the power of Persia that withholds Daniel that Michael, the chief prince or prince of princes came to help, humm?

Well, here is a spiritual lesson for anyone who is interested to know:

First, don't get caught up in physical nations like so many other Christians do. The Bible is about the Gospel, not about nations specifically. The prince of the Medes and Persia represent the unfaithful rulers of God's people, who are spiritually as these nations. The prince of Grecia is the kingdom that attacks and overcomes and rules Persia as judgment because of her sins against God. Greece's power was broken at the cross, but in the end of days its power will return as four horns. Representing its universal power during the end of days.

Dan 8:21-27
(21) And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
(22) Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
(23) And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
(24) And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
(25) And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
(26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
(27) And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

That is when Satan is loosed and the little horn goes forth for a short period. The Ram represents the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church, with two horns representing the power of the Two Witnesses. And the he-goat breaks the horns of Persia is when Satan comes out of bottomless pit, to overcome and kill Two Witnesses.

Dan 8:19-20
(19) And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
(20) The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

This is symbolic language like in Revelation. It goes back to the ruler of Persia being those who will rule God's people (the Ram), and at this time the goat will come with choler against him, and smite the ram and brake his two horns, which is reminiscent of the power of the two witnesses. The Prince of Persia represents the rules IN God's congregation that stand against Daniel, who represents God's Chosen. Daniel associates this time of great trouble where the ruler of Persia stands against him as a time when Michael (Christ) will stand up for Him (God's people). He will stand up for those who the Prince of Persia has stood against.

Dan 10:13
(13) But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

It is a prophecy of the latter days of the abomination of desolation when only Christ will stand with the Children of God, who are stood against by the rulers of Persia. When the goat breaks the horns, Christ is the only one who stands with Daniel, who represents God's servants.

Dan 10:20-21
(20) Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
(21) But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Christ is Michael your prince who fight against the ruler of persia, because the ruler is ungodly. No one will stand with the election but Michael, the Prince of Peace.


Ahhh. I thought so...

If there is a prince of the power of Persia, dont you believe that there is a prince of the power of the United States?

Do you read the prince of the power of the United States in God's Word? If not, I would be careful not to add something to God's Word if I were you.

And you dont need scripture to look around you at the world and figure that out, geez.

Sounds like delusional to me.

I dont read the newspaper. Why was it in the paper too?

Do you even know what newspaper eschatology or even Newspaper Exegesis means? Nothing to do with physical newspapers.

Who knows if it will come to pass or not? It is after it happens that people find out if it was true or not.

What I do know is just to be safe, I aint booking no vacations to Miami!

I think you do need a vacation from this forum and pray for wisdom from God.

You aint the Lord.

Of course not, don't be silly. I am a faithful witness of the Lord. :-)

I didnt say that at all. He said if I have a need to know something that He will tell me.
He also said there is a very lot going on behind the scenes that we never even get to hear about.

Do you realize the mysteries in the Bible are "behind the scenes" in a spiritual sense? For example, of Babylon the Great?
For example, it's why God calls that whore, "mystery" Babylon. Because no one believes that the church can be this woman instead of the physical cities like Rome or Jerusalem. Her "true" nature is a secret to most people. That's why when John wonders after this woman, and the messenger of God asks, why?

Revelation 17:7
  • "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."
It is cryptic imagery John is seeing in secretive or mystery form. Thus he "marvels," and is made speechless by what he sees. The word mystery [musterion] is from the root word [muo] meaning something that makes one speechless, and by implication, something one cannot explain.

But the messenger of God then declares that He will tell John (and by extension, us) the mystery. In other words, he will reveal to John the secret of what this woman represents. And He proceeds to illustrate that it is the church that has gone whoring after other gods and that will be made naked (a symbol of sin exposed), burned with fire (a symbol of judgment) and her flesh eaten by the kings of the beast (a symbol of her being devoured by false prophets, the wolves in sheep's clothing), and brought to desolation because of her abominations. This is the unfaithful covenant church just as surely as Israel was the unfaithful covenant church that was brought to desolation by this exact same Harlotry. ..there is nothing new under the sun.

So, if someone do not know or understand this, then he was not given a spirit of Christ to discern the mystery. Instead, he got busy with his newspaper escatology to find an interpretation to fit their flawed doctrine of Preterism (and premillennialism) here. Again, nothing new under the sun.

Why you tryna be provocative? Looking for a fight? Can't you just talk instead?

Gal 4:16
(16) Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
 

tailgator

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You're telling us you were alive 2,000 years ago, because you claimed to be a disciple, and the disciples came to Jesus "for to shew him the buildings of the temple".

But you didn't.

Your claim was false.
That's a lie.
I said No.
 

tailgator

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covenantee

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