Understanding what is the "Abomination of Desolation".

[Timtofly]

Link.

So the standing Roman armies are not the AoD? Great, now you accept the AoD is still future and not an army at all.

 

[covenantee]

So the standing Roman armies are not the AoD? Great, now you accept the AoD is still future and not an army at all.

Link.

 

[Hobie]

I thank God that He grants me insight to understand His Words.

It's given to all who believe, not just for private interpretation of one..

 

[Jay Ross]

It's given to all who believe, not just for private interpretation of one..

It's given to all who believe, not just for private interpretation of denominations who believe that they have been shown the light of understanding. I believe that the SDA neatly fit into this category for private interpretation of the denominations.

 

[Hobie]

It's given to all who believe, not just for private interpretation of denominations who believe that they have been shown the light of understanding. I believe that the SDA neatly fit into this category for private interpretation of the denominations.

Well, read your Bible and see what says, and you will see its scriptural..

 

[Jay Ross]

Well, read your Bible and see what says, and you will see its scriptural..

I do, I do, but I see a very different paradigm to what you are peddling.

 

[Hobie]

I do, I do, but I see a very different paradigm to what you are peddling.

I am not peddling a thing, just giving what is in scripture, and I would advise this text...
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[Jay Ross]

I am not peddling a thing, just giving what is in scripture, and I would advise this text...
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

But we also need to be careful that we do not grab the first spirit that comes along to enter our lives. It may not conform to what Christ said would happen.

Sadly, you do not present what is in scripture. You present that the "beasts" are human entities, whereas the scriptures present the beasts as being "wicked fallen heavenly hosts" that can influence people to live within their evil domains to do their bidding. You do not believe what the scriptures plainly present. You believe in your ability to discern what is scripture, but you chose what parts of scripture that you accept and what parts of scripture that you reject, such that you believe in your "gospel news" rather than in God's.

You present as scholarship what is not actual scholarship and belittle people who point out the shortcomings of your scholarship as if they are ignorance in your eyes.

God has said that there are people who have eyes but do not see and ears that do not hear and you fit this description like a glove.

You need to renew your mind and to put on Christ.

Goodbye

PS: - This is the quote that I was thinking of when I penned the above: -

“If you believe what you like in the Gospel, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the Gospel you believe, but yourself.” - Augustine

 

[CTK]

to find out what an abomination of desolation is. We can just look at the words in the original text.

The word abomination in Hebrew is the word siqquis - it refers to a thing that is abhorrent, A thing that is Vile, or filthy, And unclean thing, an Idol.

Desolation means what it says,k to make desolate or uninhabitable

Then we look to see where it is, Daniel is told it will be on the wing of the temple. Jesus called it the holy place.

so we see it is an idol or unclean thing placed into the holy place. rendering it desolate (it is unclean, so sacrifice and burnt offering can not be made)

then we look at history, has it happened before. And we see as you showed. yes it was. when a Pig (an unclean thing) was slaughtered in the holy place..

This is what you should look for in the future..

I think we can all agree that the Temple, the city and everything was completely destroyed between 606 and 587 BC by the Babylonians. But God promised to restore His people and His city after the 70 years of punishment in exile. So, the first Temple and everything in Israel was destroyed or taken away - indicating the AOD is not related to the physical destruction of the second Temple, the city, the walls and the streets, etc., The AOD is on a wholly different level of transgression. This is not repeat of something that took place during man's history or the history of the Jews from Abraham to the coming Messiah. This would be a one time HUGE event.

God would have Gabriel give Daniel the 70 weeks of years prophecy in Chapter 9, which covered the His complete plan of restoration for the Jews AND all of mankind. It would begin exactly in 457 BC, and end exactly 490 years later - it would end 3.5 years after the cross. The 70 weeks were broken into 3 separate timed sections of 7, 62 and 1 week. Within the verses 9:24-27, Gabriel will provide Daniel with the external and internal time borders and boundaries of this unique and special prophecy. The external time border where everything will take place in for a period of 490 literal years or 70 weeks of years. Gabriel also divides these 4 verses into 2 different sections: Verses 24-25 are both "restorative" verses, while 25-26 are "destructive" verses. In the "restorative" verses, Gabriel reveals the physical elements that must be completely restored. This would be the city, Temple, walls and streets, etc., These restorative elements along with the restoration of the Levitical ceremonies, the holy feast days, the sacrifices and offerings as well as the Sabbatical cycles (all of them), would also have to be restored. These elements would be restored by the Jews - this was their obligations. The second part of the "restorative" verses speak to the "spiritual" elements that must be restored or fulfilled. They are found in 9:24 and they can ONLY be fulfilled / completed by the Messiah. These represent His God given obligations / mission during His ministry.

If you look within these verses, you will find that Gabriel will identify the time and obligations of both parties that MUST be fulfilled during their timed section. The Jews will complete their mission in the first 7 weeks or the first 49 years, while the Messiah will complete all of His obligations during the last week in the prophecy - the one week that ends the 70 weeks. The Messiah will arrive at the Jordan on the first day of the 70th week (after the 7 and 62 weeks have been completed), and He will fulfill 9:24 (and more) before He returns to heaven. This is one reason why there is no gap within the 70 weeks prophecy - the last week had been "set aside" specifically for the arrival of the Messiah. He could not arrive until all of the elements in His plan of restoration BY THE JEWS, was completed. If you look at the elements of the restoration itself, every item that had to be restored that was destoryed or taken away by the Babylonians was indeed restored in the reverse order they were taken or destroyed. This is purposeful! The very first piece of furniture that was taken away was the Ark of the Covenant by Jeremiah, just prior to the first arrival of the Babylonians. God would not allow them to take the Ark... however, this was indeed prophetic and purposeful because it would be the very last piece of furniture to be restored in the Temple in the form of the coming Messiah. He would be the only one capable of restoring the presence of God in the Sanctuary. Again, this was all to take place within His ministry which covered the final 7 years of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. Jesus would indeed fulfill all 6 of His God given missions identified in 9:24 and would soon return to His Father in heaven.

But the AOD, or the "abominable" act that would cause "desolation" can only be one event in the history of mankind. It is the Jews rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah exactly 3.5 years into His ministry or 3.5 years into the last 7 years (last week) of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. As a result of their rejection and crucifixion of their Messiah, God would completely turn away from His people. He would become "desolate" to them and they would have no access to Him for the entire time known as the Time of the Gentiles. He would be made "desolate" to them for over 2000 years.

 

[tailgator]

I am not peddling a thing, just giving what is in scripture, and I would advise this text...
John 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The United states armed forces place a nuke in Jerusalem after Jerusalem has been taken.
That is what the abomination of desolation is .

A nuclear explosion.That is what Jesus described as being seen and people being fearful and fleeing for their lives.

Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


This nuclear war will be the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen.The abomination of desolation causes the earth to quake and heavens departing as a scroll being rolled together.

 

[covenantee]

The United states armed forces place a nuke in Jerusalem after Jerusalem has been taken.
That is what the abomination of desolation is .

Is the abomination the US, or the armed forces, or the nuke, or Jerusalem?

Or all of the above?

 

[MA2444]

Luke 21
10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

When it says nation will rise against nation it's talking about world war.

There hadnt been any world wars in Jesus time. Not until WW I
So the AoD is still in the future.

 

[tailgator]

Is the abomination the US, or the armed forces, or the nuke, or Jerusalem?

Or all of the above?

The nuke is the abomination that causes Jerusalem desolation.
It is placed in Jerusalem by the armed forces.

This is actually Israel policy the armed forces are carrying out.It is called the Samson option and will effect all the nations that have attacked Israel.

This is what the great tribulation is all about.The war of armegeddon.

The Samson Option (Hebrew: ברירת שמשון, romanized: b'rerat shimshon) is Israel's deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.[1]

 

[tailgator]

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[tailgator]

Is the abomination the US, or the armed forces, or the nuke, or Jerusalem?

Or all of the above?

It's not a white fluffy cloud the two witnesses ascend into heaven in on the day of the Lord and the great earthquake is not your average earthquake that strikes Jerusalem on that day.
On the day of the Lord ,the heavens shall burn with a fervent heat .The heavens and earth shall shake.

This is what happens to the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

 

[tailgator]

When it says nation will rise against nation it's talking about world war.

There hadnt been any world wars in Jesus time. Not until WW I
So the AoD is still in the future.

It is still future.

 

[TribulationSigns]

When it says nation will rise against nation it's talking about world war.

There hadnt been any world wars in Jesus time. Not until WW I
So the AoD is still in the future.

I think many of you misunderstood what Christ talked about here. The key is "many shall come in my name, saying I am Christ, and shall deceive many." This is WHERE the wars and rumours of wars take place which is the CHURCH! Where the false prophets and christs are! Not wars between Russia and Ukraine or Iran and Israel.

Mat 24:4-8

• And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
• For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
• And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
• For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
• All these are the beginning of sorrows.

We need to understand them in the same spiritual sense that God tells us is our warfare, and since interpretations belong to God, and context is important, we understand it in the light of God's word. The Church for the past 2,000 has always been in wars and there have always been reports of wars. But our warfare in Scripture is spiritual rather than carnal or "of the flesh" as the world's wars are. Israel's physical wars were to give us a deeper Spiritual picture of Spiritual warfare. Near the second coming, these wars that the Christians know of will be greater than ever. Again note that the context of Matthew chapter 24, Mark 13, etc., of the reports of wars and earthquakes, is regarding the persecution of the church and not the disposition of the world at large. The warfare is against us, not political nations. The warfare is spiritual and so the battles against the wicked is spiritual rather than political, and the weapons the worldwide church uses are spiritual. Consider:

Ephesians 6:10-17

• "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
• Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
• For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
• Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
• Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
• And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
• Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
• And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"

The war against the messengers of the church, and their sword is the Word of God. This war hasn't changed in 2000 years, the only thing that has changed is the amount of it that God's people have to stand against. Just as Christ said in the world we all will have tribulation (it's normative) but also says there shall come a time of "Great" tribulation. It's the amount of tribulation that is different, not the tribulation itself. The same with the wars. There have always been wars, but there will be a time of report of great wars, and it will cause great tribulation. Note for example in the Prophesy of War in the 70 Weeks of Daniel 9:

Daniel 9:26

• "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

This isn't talking about a physical war among physical nations, but a spiritual war that will end in Abominations that will leave God's Old Testament congregation desolate at the Cross.

Matthew speaks of these wars because Christ prophesies of a time of great trials/temptations and tribulations, just as there was at Christ's first incarnation on earth. There was war then, symbolized by the war in Heaven (Revelation 12) even as there will be before Christ returns. Because in both instances, the congregation of God is in apostasy. There is great travail, a time of trouble or tribulation, because of this spiritual warfare against us by the wicked. And because the gospel has gone out to the ends of the earth rather than to just national Israel, this great shaking of the kingdom in tribulation will be in diverse places. In other words, worldwide in all congregations of the Earth. Even as revealed in the passage:

Matthew 24:6-7

• "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
• For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places."

Wars speak of this spiritual warfare in high places, rather than physical wars among political nations. All mankind is spiritually either of the Holy Nation of Jews or of a foreign (meaning non-Jewish) nation. All mankind is spiritually either of the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Satan. So it is easy to see how a wicked nation will be against a holy nation, and the kingdom of Satan against the kingdom of God. All over the world!! Thus rumors of wars would be reports or news of wars all over, in many diverse or different places. Because this apostasy is a worldwide phenomenon where many people can see it or experience this falling away from the faith in the churches. Yet our job is to hold fast and "fight the good fight against these wicked among us:"

1st Timothy 1:18

• "This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;"

I believe that TODAY of the news of war matches the great tribulation period, which is a trial or temptation of the church. It's not yet the end, but the beginning labor pains, a "sign" announcing the end is near. All these fearful things must come to pass first, but we are cautioned not to be anxious because of these fearful things. For Judgment must first begin at the house of God (Church) before the end.

1st Peter 4:16-18

• "Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
• For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
• And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"

There is the general principle that judgment must begin at the house of God (Ezekiel 9:5-7; Jer 25:29). Nation against nation and kingdom against Kingdom I believe references the nation of believers against the nation of unbelievers, and the same thing concerning kingdom against kingdom.

Now the famine speaks of spiritual famine, as it is defined by the Word of God.

Amos 8:11

• "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:"

Again, we see it's not physical bread (Matthew 16:12), but the spiritual bread and the spiritual water. Doctrine, which is the word of God in the churches. The pestilences reference the spiritual sickness, the plagues and diseases in the church that Satan brings.

Revelation 18:4

• "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

The unfaithful sinners of the church receive this plague of spiritual sickness as God sends them strong delusion that they will believe a lie and be damned. In other words, more and more people of the congregation believe the lie that comes out of the mouth of false prophets and christs according to CONTEXT! It is a judgment of God upon His unfaithful congregation, aka Babylon the Great, Rev 18. As it is written, judgment must begin at the house of God. The earthquakes are the spiritual shaking that is going on in the churches in different places. For example, you will hear more and more false propehts and christs taking over many churches all over the world, speaking lies (doctrines) that deceive many. We may wonder what is the matter with the churches lately today becasue we are seeing more and more church falling away from the truth. This is the shaking of the powers of heaven:

(Continued on next post)

 

[TribulationSigns]

(Continued from previous post)

Luke 21:26

• "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."

The powers of heaven are shaking because all Elect has been sealed (Revelation 7:1-4) and the power of salvation has ended where there is no more sealing and the testimony of Two Witnesses is finished. God's people are called out of the abominable church so as not to receive of this judgment God has placed upon them! That is the great shaking of the earth because the two witnesses have finished their testimony, been killed, and have fled to the mountains.

These are the great fearful sights, and these are the great signs from the kingdom of heaven (Luke 21:11) of wars and reports of wars.
Therefore, the wars and rumors of wars have NOTHING to do with reports of political nations fighting against each other. This has to do with spiritual warfare within the church all over the world where the armies of Gog and Magog (false prophets and christs) can be found fighting against Christ's Elect for the control of the church:
Rev 20:7-9
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[covenantee]

It's not a white fluffy cloud the two witnesses ascend into heaven in on the day of the Lord and the great earthquake is not your average earthquake that strikes Jerusalem on that day.
On the day of the Lord ,the heavens shall burn with a fervent heat .The heavens and earth shall shake.

This is what happens to the nations that come against Jerusalem.

Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth

Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies. So the armed forces must be Roman armies.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Luke 21:20 identifies the abomination of desolation as the Roman armies. So the armed forces must be Roman armies.

Who was compassed by armies, and then the temple destroyed? Have you even read the Old Testament prophesies concerning the compassing with armies? It might interest you comparing scripture with scripture or do you simply rely on Josephus's record of who?

Luk 21:20-21
(20) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
(21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

When the believers see their city, Jersualem, the people of God and their Holy Place on this side of the Cross, the CHURCHES, under attack by Satan's ministers of unrighteousness (False prophets and Christs PER CONTEXT), then we know God has brought judgment against the apostate church, as we are to flee to the safety of the Mountain of God.

"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. (Luk 21:20)

The desolation of Jerusalem is caused foremost by the wickedness of the city - that is, those that are not Christ's but feign to be Christ's are part of that external Church that has come into judgment. The elect is part of the Church too, but they are not deceived nor are they under God's wrath - and as such they must remove themselves out of the city, yet remain citizens of Jerusalem. They are to flee the city because it is to become a wasteland - a place of the habitation of all things unclean, the abomination that makes desolate will rule over it.

The language of Jerusalem as the people of God is used later to describe the bride of Christ, made perfect and dwelling with Christ eternally. This comes after the destruction of this present world, but the important information is that Jerusalem represents the people of God and the armies that surrounded the city to overthrow it are the people of Satan. Not Roman attacking physical city Jersualem.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. (Rev 21:2)

As I explained on my previous posts, they are all related to the apostasy in the church and its dire results. Apostasy comes from kingdom rising against kingdom, there is famine, persecution, betrayal, hatred, etc., as in those signs. Indeed apostasy "is" Jerusalem compassed with armies. Not physically, but spiritually just as it was revealed in the time of Christ when He fulfilled prophesy of this. It all depends upon how we define God's Word, either by God's Word or by hypothesis and supposition. The New Testament Jerusalem "IS" the church. Not Jersualem in the Middle East like you believe. What armies would encamp against her and surround her but those soldiers spiritually of Satan, just as they did at Christ's first advent (Zec 9:8-9). There were no literal/physical battles in Jerusalem then, no literal armies then, and there are no literal/physical battles or armies against the Lord's house in the last days. It is spiritual warfare. e.g.:

Revelation 20:8-9

• "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
• And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

The beloved city is spiritual Jerusalem, the church. Not your physical city Jerusalem. The nations from all over the Earth did not come down to Jersualem in 70AD. No. The churches all over the world are the encampment of the saints. It "IS" where the battle truly takes place. The fight against abomination standing in the holy place. It is happening right now. Not future, or in 70AD. Again, it all depends upon how we define God's word, either "by" God's word or by presumption in looking at physical nations, battles, famines and warfare, and history based on the writing of a heathen.