Understanding : Acts 2:38

[rebuilder 454]

The Holy Spirit has been given to you to lead you to water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

NT baptism is not for the remission of sins.
Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Immersion is identifying with the grave or tomb of Jesus.
Coming up from the water identifies with the new life or resurrection.
It is a public display and testimony of a transition from lost to saved.
It is done in obedience.
It is not salvation at all. It depicts a "sold outness" to one entity...Jesus our new Lord.
I have never met a new convert that skipped water baptism. It is just too awesome and puts a seal on a believer.

Col 2
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[Davy]

This is all man's mental understanding.
Not a thing of the spirit.
Like a mechanic guiding an accountant.
You have zero idea what you are talking about.
The slightest miracle or term you can not pigeon hole in some made up cessationist doctrinel sends you into a supposed "biblical" "understanding" while leaving out verses that blow your deal to pieces.

Not man's idea at all; it is... the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD, as I quoted Apostle Paul in the 1 Corinthians 12 Chapter, and not from a book by men.

But those who CLAIM the 'gibberish' they speak is the true cloven tongue instead TEACH FROM THEIR OWN MINDS, and not from God's Word in Acts 2 which reveals that EVERYONE present on Pentecost HEARD THE APOSTLES SPEAK IN THEIR 'OWN' DIALECTS OF THEIR LANGUAGES OF BIRTH!

So much for YOUR doctrine from men, and NOT from God.

Now here below is a warning about a different spirit influencing the unknown tongue churches, and the warning is given by a charismatic!

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

No such word as "unknown" in the 1 Corinthians 14 chapter. The KJV translators ADDED that word "unknown" in the phrase "unknown tongue".

Apostle Paul explained about spiritual gifts early in the 1 Cor.12 chapter...

1 Cor 12:7-11
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
KJV

Paul's idea, "divers kinds of tongues" means VARIOUS KNOWN LANGUAGES OF THE WORLD. It is not about an unknown tongue.

Unless, the speaker does not know the language they speak.

In my case, no matter how long between it comes automatically from me and I have no clue.

But is it real. You betcha.

I have been all my life unable to learn or speak another language. Learn somewhat, but speak no because I cannot roll my Rs.

My adopted mother's is first generation Italian, so from the age of 17 onward I heard that language
a lot. Can understand a lot, but not speak as I cannot roll my Rs.

I almost flunked high school French because of my overly inflexible tongue. Another language I understand some of but not talk

Now as had been my habit before ""Christian" forum days I used to pray in tongues or sing when I was driving...

I turned the car over to God and he drove. (Do not ask me to explain)

And one day... and only one day out of the blue as I was praying ... my gosh... I was rolling my Rs so easily and unmistakably...

And it was the only time I ever did or could.

So if you want to think I was possessed... go right ahead. Our heavenly Father knows I tell the truth.

Oh... I am not Pentecostal... I am Presbyterian. And they dont teach that either

Furthermore, Paul says the spiritual gifts are divided among Christ's body of believers. Not everyone will manifest the same gifts. Yet Pentecostals claim that if one doesn't speak in an 'unknown tongue' then they don't have evidence of The Holy Spirit, which is an idea Paul did not teach!

 

[Davy]

Unless, the speaker does not know the language they speak.

In my case, no matter how long between it comes automatically from me and I have no clue.

But is it real. You betcha.

I never said the 'true' cloven tongue was not real, so let me make that clear so you are more careful next time you address what I wrote.

I merely said the 'gibberish' tongue that some claim... is the true cloven tongue, is not the true cloven tongue, simply because Acts 2 is the Measure.

Acts 2 is the evidence... of HOW the true cloven tongue will manifest.

And HOW did it manifest in Acts 2? The peoples... present heard the Apostles speak not only in their languages of birth, but in the very dialects of their languages of birth.

 

[Truther]

NT baptism is not for the remission of sins.
Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Immersion is identifying with the grave or tomb of Jesus.
Coming up from the water identifies with the new life or resurrection.
It is a public display and testimony of a transition from lost to saved.
It is done in obedience.
It is not salvation at all. It depicts a "sold outness" to one entity...Jesus our new Lord.
I have never met a new convert that skipped water baptism. It is just too awesome and puts a seal on a believer.

Col 2
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

Houston, we have a problem...

 

[JBO]

NT baptism is not for the remission of sins.
Rom 6
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Immersion is identifying with the grave or tomb of Jesus.
Coming up from the water identifies with the new life or resurrection.
It is a public display and testimony of a transition from lost to saved.
It is done in obedience.
It is not salvation at all. It depicts a "sold outness" to one entity...Jesus our new Lord.
I have never met a new convert that skipped water baptism. It is just too awesome and puts a seal on a believer.

Col 2
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Colossians 2 clearly says that baptism is for the forgiveness [remission] of sins.

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

 

[rebuilder 454]

Colossians 2 clearly says that baptism is for the forgiveness [remission] of sins.

Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

What you just pointed out is the power of God and his forgiveness.
Not a WORK of baptism.
Baptism has zero to do with removal of sin.
Zero

 

[Truther]

What you just pointed out is the power of God and his forgiveness.
Not a WORK of baptism.
Baptism has zero to do with removal of sin.
Zero

Then Peter said to them, repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…

Zero?

 

[rebuilder 454]

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

Houston, we have a problem...

Show me anywhere sin is dealt with via baptism.
Peter was parroting JTB.
Peter had to have been later corrected, as there is no longer An intermediate state as John the Batist only dealt with PREPARATION via baptism.
That intermediate state in which the Messiah had come but His SIN OFFERING of HIMSELF was not fulfilled. All John could do was bring a plow to the heart....( repent).
Peter was still in that mode.
All Christians that are baptized have ALREADY had their sins forgiven.
Baptism publicly declares a work in a believer. A previous work.
If baptism were connected to a Christians fate then it would be somewhere in the Bible.
Iow in the seven letters to the seven churches.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Then Peter said to them, repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…

Zero?

How many times a day do you dunk yourself?
Hopefully you do so many,many times

 

[rebuilder 454]

I never said the 'true' cloven tongue was not real, so let me make that clear so you are more careful next time you address what I wrote.

I merely said the 'gibberish' tongue that some claim... is the true cloven tongue, is not the true cloven tongue, simply because Acts 2 is the Measure.

Acts 2 is the evidence... of HOW the true cloven tongue will manifest.

And HOW did it manifest in Acts 2? The peoples... present heard the Apostles speak not only in their languages of birth, but in the very dialects of their languages of birth.

What you are hoping to imply is that the Apostles went to other countries and supernaturally preached in languages that were native to the audience.
That is what you are hoping to get us to believe.
But Paul said without an interpreter THE AUDIENCE can not understand what was uttered.
IOW...there is NO NATIVE TONGUE spoken.
You do not move or operate in that realm, but tireless try to correct those that do.
You have no idea what you are talking about

 

[JBO]

What you just pointed out is the power of God and his forgiveness.
Not a WORK of baptism.
Baptism has zero to do with removal of sin.
Zero

I agree, in a sense, that baptism as zero to do with the removal of sin. Such can only be accomplished by God, Himself. However, it seems clear enough from passages such as Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16, Col 2:11-13, etc. that baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the repentant believer, that God as promised that He will forgive sin.

I would plead with you and all who reject any connection between salvation and baptism as clearly indicated in the Bible to rethink it. Whether or not God can and will forgive the sins of the unbaptized can be a serious topic of discussion. However, to reject the promise that God has given with respect to the obvious connection of salvation with baptism is terribly, terribly foolish. Why anyone would even consider that just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

 

[gpresdo]

There are several ways to understand your verse.

First, lets look at PETER, explain water baptism...

1 Peter 3:21

""""""The like FIGURE whereunto even baptism doth also now save us"""""

See that word "FIGURE" ? = that is the literal context of the water baptism..

Peter is showing you that water baptism, is a FIGURE... its SYMBOLIC.....


Paul then says this..

"Christ sent me not to Water Baptize".... So, if water is required for Salvation, then Paul would never say he was not sent to water baptize.


Finally.

"There is one Lord, One Faith, and ONE Baptism".. .

And that Baptism, is Spiritual, were we are born again by the Spirit of God.... .not by water.

LOL...then explain away the many supporting scriptures commanding baptism...even though you have not negated peter 3;21 with that verbage;

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 10;47-48...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I c

 

[gpresdo]

I agree, in a sense, that baptism as zero to do with the removal of sin. Such can only be accomplished by God, Himself. However, it seems clear enough from passages such as Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16, Col 2:11-13, etc. that baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the repentant believer, that God as promised that He will forgive sin.

I would plead with you and all who reject any connection between salvation and baptism as clearly indicated in the Bible to rethink it. Whether or not God can and will forgive the sins of the unbaptized can be a serious topic of discussion. However, to reject the promise that God has given with respect to the obvious connection of salvation with baptism is terribly, terribly foolish. Why anyone would even consider that just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Be aware....no baptism teaching... is one of several ...new...new age religion interpretations which have all occurred since the 1960's.
One denominator in the thread....which is this.....anyone who adopts and lives by these new interpretations will loose their eternal salvation, to include...universalism, osas and a new one....we are not subjected to God's commandments in that Christ already obtained forgiveness and we need not repent, et al.
While doing research we find that none of these ...new...new age religion interpretations had a life before the 1960s....that we have, so far, discovered.
Anyone wish to explain that finding?

Also, we found....new age religion publication of new bible editions have occurred since the 1960's. Perhaps attempts to explain the new interpretations after the 1960's will include explanation of this point also.
We are reminded of scripture.....in the end times there will be great deceptions.....what could be greater....than miss leading folks causing them to loose eternal salvation.

Follow the Bible's teachings.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I never said the 'true' cloven tongue was not real, so let me make that clear so you are more careful next time you address what I wrote.

I merely said the 'gibberish' tongue that some claim... is the true cloven tongue, is not the true cloven tongue, simply because Acts 2 is the Measure.

Acts 2 is the evidence... of HOW the true cloven tongue will manifest.

And HOW did it manifest in Acts 2? The peoples... present heard the Apostles speak not only in their languages of birth, but in the very dialects of their languages of birth.

What you are hoping to imply is that the Apostles went to other countries and supernaturally preached in languages that were native to the audience.
That is what you are hoping to get us to believe.
But Paul said without an interpreter THE AUDIENCE can not understand what was uttered.
IOW...there is NO NATIVE TONGUE spoken.
You do not move or operate in that realm, but tireless try to correct those that do.
You have no idea what you are talking a

I agree, in a sense, that baptism as zero to do with the removal of sin. Such can only be accomplished by God, Himself. However, it seems clear enough from passages such as Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16, Col 2:11-13, etc. that baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the repentant believer, that God as promised that He will forgive sin.

I would plead with you and all who reject any connection between salvation and baptism as clearly indicated in the Bible to rethink it. Whether or not God can and will forgive the sins of the unbaptized can be a serious topic of discussion. However, to reject the promise that God has given with respect to the obvious connection of salvation with baptism is terribly, terribly foolish. Why anyone would even consider that just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Salvation and baptism are indeed directly connected.
It is our first act of obedience.
It publicly declares who we are and who we identify with. It signifies the death burial and resurrection of ourselves alongside His DBR.
I personally believe baptism puts a seal on the believer.

 

[JBO]

Be aware....no baptism teaching... is one of several ...new...new age religion interpretations which have all occurred since the 1960's.

Actually, Huldrlych Zwingli in the early 16th century introduced the false idea that salvation was disconnected from water baptism.

 

[gpresdo]

I agree, in a sense, that baptism as zero to do with the removal of sin. Such can only be accomplished by God, Himself. However, it seems clear enough from passages such as Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 22:16, Col 2:11-13, etc. that baptism is the occasion, the time in the life of the repentant believer, that God as promised that He will forgive sin.

I would plead with you and all who reject any connection between salvation and baptism as clearly indicated in the Bible to rethink it. Whether or not God can and will forgive the sins of the unbaptized can be a serious topic of discussion. However, to reject the promise that God has given with respect to the obvious connection of salvation with baptism is terribly, terribly foolish. Why anyone would even consider that just makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Then you need to explain why the Bible is wrong.....

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

???

 

[gpresdo]

Actually, Huldrlych Zwingli in the early 16th century introduced the false idea that salvation was disconnected from water baptism.

Please show me a reference which proves this? We are still researching this point.

Note; ....."Zwingli's views on baptism were largely a response to Anabaptism, a movement which criticized the practice of infant baptism. He defended the baptism of children by describing it as a sign of a Christian's covenant with disciples and God just as God made a covenant with Abraham".

This does not disagree with the Bible commanding baptism. It in fact supports the commandment...and includes His conclusion that children should also be baptized...that I disagree with.

Maybe you have different reference? Thank you.

 

[JBO]

Salvation and baptism are indeed directly connected.
It is our first act of obedience.

That is not what the Bible says.

It publicly declares who we are and who we identify with. It signifies the death burial and resurrection of ourselves alongside His DBR.

Yes, perhaps. But not all that significant in relation to being saved.

I personally believe baptism puts a seal on the believer.

Only by the fact that in having been baptized, the repentant believer received forgiveness of sins and was given the gift of the Holy Spirit. That gift, among other things constitutes the seal put on the believer.

 

[JBO]

Then you need to explain why the Bible is wrong.....

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

???

I think I just did. Baptism is the time in the life of the repentant believer that God saves him. That is God's promise to the repentant believer.

I would comment here relative to 1 Peter 3:21, that the water of baptism is the type to the anti-type of the water of Noah's flood. Both are the occasion when God saves.