To the only God our Savior

[GeneZ]

“Jesus, in his teaching, his prophetic actions, and in the obedience which led to his death, was acting as God’s agent and representative on earth. It was as if, when he spoke and acted, God himself was present. In Luke’s phrase, ‘God was with him’; in Paul’s, ‘God was in Christ’. That this was so had been demonstrated by the resurrection, after which Jesus had necessarily been given the highest place, under God, which could be awarded to any living being. Christians could now confidently join in the worship and praise due to the one who had been given (again under God) a name which is above every name, and through whom the Holy Spirit was now active among those who acknowledged his lordship. It was as far as one could possibly go (these Christians felt) in ascribing unique dignity to Jesus consistently with respecting the constraint of monotheism. In later times the church, no longer perceiving the power and decisiveness of the agent-son-representative model, and having among its members men used to a more philosophical analysis, felt it necessary to go considerably further in the direction of metaphysical identity between Jesus and his heavenly father: released from the constraint of Jewish monotheism, gentile Christians began to think of Jesus as also, in some sense, God.“

(A.E. Harvey, Jesus and the Constraints of History, p. 173)

Church history brilliantly presented by this trinitarian scholar; recognizing my place on the Christian timeline without attacking or undermining historical orthodox trinitarianism.

If I had the opportunity to go back and do it all over again: as a student I would want to been required to read this book; as a professor I would make this book required reading for my trinitarian and non-trinitarian students.

I just completed reading the book for the second time. (The first time was around 25 years ago.) I’m thinking about making the reading of the last chapter an annual event.

You are simply falling short of knowing Truth that only the Holy Spirit will reveal by giving a peaceful power to grasp and understand.

Read all the books you want. Collection knowledge is not wisdom.

 

[Matthias]

You are simply falling short of knowing Truth that only the Holy Spirit will reveal by giving a peaceful power to grasp and understand.

You’re simply - out of ignorance, I hope - denying church history. The trinitarian scholar I quoted (as well as the other trinitarian scholars I’ve quoted which support him) is correct.

Read all the books you want.

Most of what I know about theology I’ve learned from trinitarian scholarship. I read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically. The benefit of doing that has been invaluable.

Anyone who knows me knows that I encourage people to read; first and foremost the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.

Collection knowledge is not wisdom.

Get wisdom, get understanding. The collection knowledge of the scriptures, but not only that.

 

[GeneZ]

You’re simply - out of ignorance, I hope - denying church history. The trinitarian scholar I quoted (as well as the other trinitarian scholars I’ve quoted which support him) is correct.



Most of what I know about theology I’ve learned from trinitarian scholarship. I read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically. The benefit of doing that has been invaluable.

Anyone who knows me knows that I encourage people to read; first and foremost the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.



Get wisdom, get understanding. The collection knowledge of the scriptures.

Wisdom is the Spirit's enabling power (grace) showing one how to live the Knowledge.
Knowledge that is for God's glory.

Knowledge for academia sake?
Is only for self glory.

The Scribes that had Jesus crucified?
They were loaded with knowledge.
And, the same Scribes, may I add? ...
Wrote commentary.

That does not mean all commentaries are death traps.
A few are actually fruitful and helpful for all.

 

[Matthias]

Wisdom is the Spirit's enabling power (grace) showing one how to live the Knowledge.
Knowledge that is for God's glory.

Knowledge for academia sake?
Is only for self glory.

The Scribes that had Jesus crucified?
They were loaded with knowledge.
And, the same Scribes, may I add? ...
Wrote commentary.

That does not mean all commentaries are death traps.
A few are actually fruitful and helpful for all.

Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically.

Those who do won’t easily be taken in by those who don’t.

 

[Matthias]

Posts in this thread offer a practical demonstration of why everyone should study church history.

 

[GeneZ]

Read widely, deeply, thoughtfully and critically.

Those who do won’t easily be taken in by those who don’t.

This man was reading books constantly.....
And, quoting from them when applicable.
But, never did so like you have been doing, like it is a legal document.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

I am not afraid of people who love to read books.

 

[Matthias]

This man was reading books constantly.....
And, quoting from them when applicable.
But, never did so like you have been doing, like it is a legal document.

R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home

I am not afraid of people who love to read books.

All I’ve done is use trinitarian sources to feed you basic church history.

Your commentary contains some truth, some error and some insults. Readers should evaluate it for themselves.

 

[GeneZ]

All I’ve done is use trinitarian sources to feed you basic church history.

Your commentary contains some truth, some error and some insults. Readers should evaluate it for themselves.

All you did was to limit anything said that went beyond what they understood.
The doctrine is true, but Trinitarians are on various levels of depth and understanding.
You seem to be on a very superficial level.

 

[Matthias]

All you did was to limit anything said that went beyond what they understood.

Not at all. My quotation of trinitarian scholars includes church history through subsequent centuries that formulated the doctrine of the Trinity. I don’t hide that history from my readers.

The doctrine is true, but Trinitarians are on various levels of depth and understanding.

You don’t espouse historical orthodox trinitarianism. That could be due to your level of depth and understanding.

 

[GeneZ]

Not at all. My quotation of trinitarian scholars includes church history through subsequent centuries that formulated the doctrine of the Trinity. I don’t hide that history from my readers.



You don’t espouse historical orthodox trinitarianism. That could be due to your level of depth and understanding.

I have no idea what you, being a non-Trinitarian, considers orthodoxy.
I find it ironic ....

 

[Matthias]

I have no idea what you, being a non-Trinitarian, considers orthodoxy.
I find it ironic ....

I’ve told you numerous times what trinitarian orthodoxy is.

Church history tells everyone what it is. It comes to us from the church.

 

[GeneZ]

I’ve told you numerous times what trinitarian orthodoxy is.

Church history tells everyone what it is. It comes to us from the church.

Who are you to tell me? Anti-Trinitarian one?

 

[GeneZ]

Being an anti-Trinitarian surely means one does not cherry-pick his sources?

 

[GeneZ]

I’ve told you numerous times what trinitarian orthodoxy is.

Church history tells everyone what it is. It comes to us from the church.

Here you go..... https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/for_download/The Trinity.pdf

 

[Matthias]

Who are you to tell me? Anti-Trinitarian one?

You asked me, knowing in advance that I’m a Jewish monotheist. I answered you.

 

[Matthias]

Here you go..... https://www.rbthieme.org/PDF/for_download/The Trinity.pdf

Does he accept or does he reject the historical orthodox doctrine of the Trinity?

 

[Matthias]

Being an anti-Trinitarian surely means one does not cherry-pick his sources?

You’re welcome to go on record rejecting the trinitarian sources I’ve referenced and quoted. It would be helpful for me if you would provide a list of the trinitarian scholars whom you disagree with. My personal library is well stocked with trinitarian sources which I can draw upon.

 

[GeneZ]

You asked me, knowing in advance that I’m a Jewish monotheist. I answered you.

And, you claim to be an expert on knowing who knows how to teach on the Trinity correctly?

Are you well?

 

[Matthias]

And, you claim to be an expert on knowing who knows how to teach on the Trinity correctly?

I know the orthodox doctrine and have learned through conversation with you that you either don’t or that you find something about it that you disagree with.

Are you well?

Yes.

 

[Pierac]

All I’ve done is use trinitarian sources to feed you basic church history.

Your commentary contains some truth, some error and some insults. Readers should evaluate it for themselves.

What trinitarian sources?