Timing of Eze 37 and 38 pre Trib?

[The Light]

I see Jesus returning to end the troubles of Jacob. So wrath can't be after.

He does come to end the trouble of Jacob. When He comes at the 6th seal He raptures the 12 tribes across the earth from the earth. Jacobs troubles are over. Those that fled in the nation of Israel and are still on earth are in a supernatural place of protection.

That could be. However, it is also the wrath of God. And it is world wide, not limited to Israel

I have never said that the wrath of God was limited to Israel. I have said that Israel will be the only believers left on earth after Jesus comes for the gathering. Those that are in the place of protection are not believers when Jesus comes, but the will see Him in the clouds and believe. The rest of the world has the mark.

The wrath is over when He comes and destroys His enemies. It is peace then.

Exactly. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet.
Rev 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Jesus has returned. Armagedden is over and the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord.

Right. I would think that He gathers us together before the Tribulation.
Of course.

He gathers the Church BEFORE the tribulation, the 70th week of Daniel. But the gathering from heaven and earth happens IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.
You still haven't figured out that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

OK, so you think that when we are Raptured the sun will go dark, and moon will turn red, and the stars all fall. That would be quite a world people are left with for the seven years.

Again. The Church is raptured before the 70th week of Daniel. Then God turns His attention to His Chosen. The 12 tribes across the earth, are the seed of the woman, Israel. The twelve tribes are gathered from the earth and the Church is gathered from heaven at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

The gathering? He comes DOWN so any gathering is here.

Negative. The gathering is in the clouds.
Matt 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Here is the gathering in the clouds that occurs at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation, and just before the wrath of God
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

When He returns all Israel will be saved actually.

Jesus returns at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation for the gathering from heaven and earhth. He raptures the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, from the earth. Then they go to heaven for the marriage supper. After that the armies of heaven return and Jesus sets His foot on the mount of Olives. Then all of Israel is saved.

That is clearly before Jesus returns in the tribulation.

Exactly

No. There will be an innumerable multitude from everywhere.

The great multitude is the gathering from heaven(the Church) and earth (the twelve tribes across the earth) at the end of the tribulation. Then the wrath of God begins and the nation of Israel that fled will continue to remain on earth through the wrath of God in a place of protection. None of Gods people are appointed to wrath.

That is talking about the world being ripe to be thrown into the Tribulation/wrath of God.

Again. The tribulation is over BEFORE the wrath of God begins. See the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Rev 14.

No. You can't support that claim.

Us being those who accept Jesus before that final time, or as many call it, the church. That would not include the people saved IN the wrath of God/tribulation.

The tribulation is not the wrath of God no matter how many times those preachers on tv say it is.

You can't support that.

Of course I can.
God has a big attention span. There is also a multitude no man could number that are saved in that time.

Sorry but you are quite wrong there. The Jews will be saved in the end but so will untold millions of others.

[/QUOTE]
No, I'm not wrong. The trouble is that you are not able to understand two fundamentals. 1 The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal happens immediately after the tribulation just as Matt 24 shows. 2. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

 

[Davy]

Zec was about Jesus returning to earth and the Jews getting saved in the end. Not about thousands of years ago.
It is one thing to connect the dots. It is another thing to splatter dots all over and imagine some great painting.

You're the one not connecting the dots. The 'smite the shepherd' timing WAS almost 2,000 years ago, as a prophecy about the time of Christ's crucifixion!

Jesus' Own words...

Matt 26:31
31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of Me this night: for it is written, 'I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.'
KJV

So now you reveal that you're not studied in The New Testament Scriptures either!!

What you say is not to be trusted. You are only here to play games.

 

[The Light]

The bible says the wrath of God begins at the 7th trump not ends. What do you think the vials of wrath are? Vials of blessings and happiness??

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Here it clearly states that God's wrath has come after the 7th trump sounds. Clearly God's wrath hadn't been coming for a long time before this or else the statement would be meaningless.

The wrath of God begins at the opening of the 7th seal when the 1st trumpet is blown.

When Jesus returns at the 6th seal we can see that the wrath of God is come.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Are you not understanding that when the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of our Lord, Armageddon has already happened and the wrath of God is OVER.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[Davy]

The wrath of God begins at the opening of the 7th seal when the 1st trumpet is blown.

When Jesus returns at the 6th seal we can see that the wrath of God is come.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The 6th Seal timing is the SAME timing as the 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. You have failed to compare the 6th Seal events about God's 'wrath' also per that 7th trumpet and 7th vial.

 

[Truth7t7]

I guess you could arrive at that conclusion if you didn't understand that the coming Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus in Rev 6.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Rev 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened. If you think all those trumpets are not the wrath of God you are greatly mistaken. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet.

When the man of sin is revealed in Jerusalem,the 3.5 year tribulation starts

At this exact same time frame the (Two Witnesses) of Revelation 11 are revealed and they are bringing plagues upon the antichrist and his worldly kingdom for 1260 days, a complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, it's my opinion the (Two Witnesses) will be Enoch/Elijah who never experienced physical death

After this 3.5 years of tribulation, Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Judgement is complete, the wicked go to the lake of fire, the righteous into the eternal kingdom in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, all in the twinkling of an eye, eternity begins

 

[ewq1938]

The wrath of God begins at the opening of the 7th seal when the 1st trumpet is blown.

When Jesus returns at the 6th seal we can see that the wrath of God is come.

The 6th seal is talking about what happens at the 7th trump.

 

[Timtofly]

He was killed when He was here. That was after 69 weeks. There is no week after that save the final week of history. That did not start thousands of years ago, and when it does start, it will last seven years, not centuries.

There is nothing in the chapter saying the week is a whole week. In fact twice is the thought given, that the week has two parts. Saying it has two halves in any of your post would be disingenuous.

The 70th week was not prophecied as the last week in history. That is your imagination at work.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks."

Notice that instead of defining the final week, Gabriel incorporated Jesus as Messiah the Prince. Are you arguing the life of Jesus is less important than a final week?

The time of Jacob's trouble, the time unlike any other time before or after, did not start yet. Certainly not thousands of years ago.

Wrong point here. Please quote one Scripture stating the length of Jacob's trouble without any need from human interpretation.

Prove that it was 1260 days from His Baptism till ascension? A covenant has to be signed that is broken mid way. What agreement was broken or signed?? Where did the horses, such as the white horse and black horse march in that three years? When was Israel invaded in that time? Etc etc etc etc

Not the point. The week is only complete when Jesus is on earth as Prince. No, there was no time on earth as Prince in the first century. Half of the 70th week is still future.

Why pretend that is even somewhat biblical?

Do you pretend to know the future?

Why insert the 1000 years here? Usually it should be for some reason. What promises, exactly start at the end of that time?

Are you asking God why He let sin reign for 6,000 years, and then saved the last 1,000 years for Himself. Daniel 9:24 will be experienced on earth for 1,000 years. Why do you have an issue with this fact?

Rev 16:
Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

After Babylon is burned with fire, there are still ships trading at sea. There are still kingdoms. The Antichrist is still to rise with the ten kings. That could not possibly be when He returns!

This is not the 6th Seal. The vials are not about the rapture, nor the Second Coming.

 

[dad]

I have never said that the wrath of God was limited to Israel. I have said that Israel will be the only believers left on earth after Jesus comes for the gathering. Those that are in the place of protection are not believers when Jesus comes, but the will see Him in the clouds and believe. The rest of the world has the mark.

No idea what 'gathering' that is. Never heard of a time when Jews were the only believers either. You might as well be reading a sci fi novel.

You still haven't figured out that the tribulation is over before the wrath of God begins.

That is not something one figures out it is something one dreams up.

Again. The Church is raptured before the 70th week of Daniel. Then God turns His attention to His Chosen. The 12 tribes across the earth, are the seed of the woman, Israel. The twelve tribes are gathered from the earth and the Church is gathered from heaven at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins.

No idea what that actually means in your mind. The chosen Jews from the tribes are chosen to be a witness in that tribulation period, not chosen to join captain Picard on a space flight somewhere.

Negative. The gathering is in the clouds.
Matt 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

It does not say they will up in the clouds when they see Him coming. They see HIM in the clouds coming here.

In the Rapture we met Him up there.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Here is the gathering in the clouds that occurs at the 6th seal, immediately after the tribulation, and just before the wrath of God
Rev 14

So is that the elect from that seven years or the church? Of course there will be elect when He returns. There will be more elect saints at the end of the 1000 years also. If a gathering happens AFTER the Tribulation that would not be the Rapture. Elementary.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

Right, the good and the bad the good and the evil are then ready. When we were Raptured before the Tribulation the harvest of the earth was not yet ready. That does not mean we were not ready!

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

What does that tell you? The winepress after the tribulation is part of the wrath of God. Naturally if the harvest is the new believers as well as the unrepentant wicked, the wicked must be destroyed. What else did you think it was talking about?

Jesus returns at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation for the gathering from heaven and earhth.

No. His return after the Great Tribulation is not for the Rapture of the Bride. That is for the folks alive then.

He raptures the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, from the earth.

Well, if so, He also raises the zillions of new believers also. The problem with that is that the Jews were promised the land here. And here is where they will have the promises fulfilled! They would not have it any other way. The promises cannot be fulfilled unless that land is involved.

Then they go to heaven for the marriage supper.

I thought the marriage supper was long over and that the Raptured Bride attended in heaven. Therefore I do not expect that you will be able to give us any verses at all that says otherwise.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

That is not located on earth.

The great multitude is the gathering from heaven(the Church) and earth (the twelve tribes across the earth) at the end of the tribulation.

Not from heaven. In heaven before the throne of God.

We also see that judgment ON EARTH is going on at this time.

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

This verse just verified and confirmed that three times! The people who are sealed are sealed to be protected from all this. So to review, the great multitude is IN heaven, and the sealed are on the earth, where fierce judgments are still going on.

Then the wrath of God begins and the nation of Israel that fled will continue to remain on earth through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

The wrath is already being poured out on earth and that is why people need protection against it.

None of Gods people are appointed to wrath.

Yes. There will be lots of new believers in that wrath of God, and that is where they get saved. They are appointed, we are not. None (of the believers) are appointed to wrath BEFORE the wrath starts! After it does the folks getting saved in that time obviously are appointed to live at that time.

The tribulation is not the wrath of God no matter how many times those preachers on tv say it is.

With a third of the trees burned up, and a third of mankind killed, for example, that is the hand of God. That is fearsome.

No, I'm not wrong. The trouble is that you are not able to understand two fundamentals. 1 The coming of Jesus at the 6th seal happens immediately after the tribulation just as Matt 24 shows. 2. The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet.

The coming of Jesus to earth is after the Tribulation. Yet after that sixth seal we see things that cannot possibly exist after Jesus returns to the earth!

1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

You have impending Judgments on the earth that are held back because some people on earth need to be sealed! After Jesus is here on earth, no sea or trees will be turning to blood or burned! No one is going to need protection from anything, He is here! When He is here angels will not be pouring terrible plagues on the earth. Same thing with the trumpets. Example: 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. You are not going to have ships destroyed, or sailing the seas after He returns for awhile! All the oceans and waters are turned to blood! The vials also have to be before He returns. Example: 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

After Jesus returns the first thing He does is toss the AntiChrist into the lake of fire! There will no longer be a kingdom of the antichrist! In fact all kingdoms of the world will have become His kingdoms!

 

[dad]

You're the one not connecting the dots. The 'smite the shepherd' timing WAS almost 2,000 years ago, as a prophecy about the time of Christ's crucifixion!

Jesus' Own words...

Matt 26:31
31 Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of Me this night: for it is written, 'I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad.'
KJV

So now you reveal that you're not studied in The New Testament Scriptures either!!

What you say is not to be trusted. You are only here to play games.

That has what to do with the second coming?

 

[Timtofly]

This idea is wrong.
Many scriptures prove that the dead lie in their graves; metaphorically speaking, and their souls wait for the Great White Throne Judgment. Just as Lazarus, John 1:24 and David does; Acts 13:36

This body will return to dust. Why do you not believe this body is just temporal and dead? It will never be resurrected. The soul changes bodies, not souls. Paul wrote about different bodies, not different souls. Yet people still want to keep this Adamic body of sin. Why?

 

[ewq1938]

This body will return to dust. Why do you not believe this body is just temporal and dead? It will never be resurrected. The soul changes bodies, not souls. Paul wrote about different bodies, not different souls. Yet people still want to keep this Adamic body of sin. Why?

The unsaved will be resurrected in their old mortal bodies and then will die a second time.

 

[Timtofly]

No need repeating, I think we get it. You deny the Tribulation and try to assign it to history playing foolish word games.

Nope. The Tribulation will still happen, just after the Second Coming.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Adam did die. The soul did not die. So what exactly is death? How did Adam die?

I had already proof read my post and changed some of the verbiage to this before I even clicked on this Alert, so I don't know if this changes anything in your mind but I placed soul where body should have went and didn't even juxtapose the two, I was a little drowsy this AM.

"""We never truly die, we were created in God's Image, thou will not SURELY DIE, remember that Satan untruth? He was correct in his half truth, the body died but the Soul was still eternal, thus in Rev. 19:20 God is speaking in eternal terms, God never allows those two to REST but throws them alive (in the spiritual sense) straight into hellfire. Contradiction solved."""

You say the soul died and cannot die contradicting yourself to those reading your explanation. Perhaps you see no contradiction, but the point remains. Then you add a third contradiction and a lie, that Adam did not physically die. Obviously he eventually died so God must have meant "eventually", and not "surely" at the moment Adam disobeyed.

The BODY DIED.......It should have been evident since I was referencing Daniel 7:11 and even stated the body is KILLED & DESTROYED.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

I never stated anything about Adam, except that Satan told him a HALF TRUTH, you just have an comprehension problem brother. The HALF TRITH was his Soul/Spirit Man will never die, but his body will die and Satan never told him that, as a matter of Fact he lied in two ways, Adams Spirit Man became separated from God the moment he sinned against God, and thus he needed a future Sacrifice in order to be made whole again. But Satan like men who refuse to repent, are Eternal beings which will be separated from God fir eternity.

God did not use "Thou Will Not Surely Die", Satan did.

I have never heard nor thought them as "Super". You put that thought in my head. Scripture never even claims they "evangelize" or "preach". I do not think for one second they represent all Of Israel.

I don't think I was speaking about you but the vast majority of Preachers per se. I do not even consider your understandings at all, most preachers I give an ear to are still right 90-95 percent of the time or I wouldn't give ear unto them, but they are still wrong on the 144,000 evangelizing the world, I see very little you are correct on, so of curse n wasn't not speaking about wat you think on the subject. The 144,000 are the 3-5 million who repents, it is that simple. Now, you may or may not be right on certain aspects of this or that, but I do not know, I never heard anything from you on this, BUT most every thing I hear from you I see as being in error. It is what it is.

In Matthew 25 Jesus separates the sheep and goats by His choice, not by their choice, and Jesus never claims only 144k nor even a third are sheep.

No, we make the choice to ACCEPT Jesus or REJECT Jesus that old Calvinism stuff is pure bunk.

I do not see how theologically this event covers the whole church, as this is not about repentance and the remission of sin. This is about Jesus claiming to redeem some surprised Jews who only months before rejected Jesus as their Messiah. Obviously those Jews who accepted salvation were caught up with the church and glorified at the 6th Seal. "Some" of the church will not be left behind, because they were descendants of Jacob.

They are not SURPRISED, the Repent BY FAITH, 1335 days BEFORE Jesus Second Coming, when the Two-witnesses show up to preach repentance. The 6th Seal does NOTHING, you do not even get close brother. Being a SEED of Jacob will not get you salvation. Only being like Faithful Abraham saves us from our sins, he was made righteous only because he BELIVED God was his Redeemer and would send a sacrificial lamb to take away his sins.

While I do think the parable of the 10 virgins represents Israel, not the church herself, the 5 wise virgins were part of the church and taken with the church. Out of the remaining 5, only 2 were then chosen by Jesus to rule on the earth for 1,000 years. 3 were goats and condemned to death. Now you will say, "certainly there are not 8 million Jews who currently confess Christ as their Messiah". You may be right. It is a parable, not a prophecy. If Jesus had said there were 2 wise virgins, and 8 foolish, then it may have been prophetic. Even in Matthew 25 with the sheep and goats it seems to imply a 50/50 chance. That does not seem realistic. Even the point made in the OT that 100% would be made whole was the best case scenario. Sometimes we are given the worse case, sometimes the best case, and most times left in the undefined middle.

The 10 Virgins are the Church, we know this because Jesus speaks about coming and receiving them unto himself, in his Fathers house are many rooms (Marriage Chambers). Israel have the Fathers name in their forehead. We are Jesus' bride.

But the point about the 144k is realistically an actual 144k chosen to be disciples, meaning it is a training process, not a symbolic escape process for millions of modern Jews. Take the example of the original 12 disciples. They seem to mirror the 12 tribes. Even to the point we end up with 13 and 14 in total. Joseph was still a tribe, yet we see Ephraim and Manasseh. Judas was replaced with a human choice and then presumably Paul was chosen directly by Jesus as well.

Just like THE WOMAN the 144,000 are ALL Israel who Repent.

While I do not see this process in Revelation 7 exactly duplicating the original 12 tribes nor 12 disciples, you have both ideas represented. On one hand sparing 12,000 from each tribe, while on the other in Revelation 14, they are disciples that go wherever Jesus goes on earth and obviously off earth.

Jesus sets up his Kingdom Age where? In Jerusalem, who will be there with him? The 3-5 Million Jews who repented, so of course they FOLLOW HIM where he goes, back to Jerusalem/Israel, its purely prose. They are the children of Israel who repented and the Kingdom Age has arrived.

"and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

And we the Church are called 10 Virgin Brides !!


144,000 Cubits = the New Jerusalem. It just means the completeness thereof. It is God lingo.

Listen I am not trying to be harsh on you brother. I am just being honest hoping it will wake you up on some of these things. We need to leave behind THE FACTS so this who are still here will not be confused, so I find it imperative to always speak truth in the last days. When those let see my words online in the first 3.5 years, they will see everything I stated came to pass. They will be looking for you and you will have been snatched up to heaven kicking and screaming, I was wrong, wrong, wrong.........;)

 

[Timtofly]

Misquoting verses again Timtofly.

Here’s a question, where did Christ go to when he died? And when you get the answer, who else was there. Hmm it wasn’t Heaven where no man has ascended to.

The tomb. It was empty. Where did God go after the Atonement? That is the question you should have asked.

 

[dad]

Nope. The Tribulation will still happen, just after the Second Coming.

The Tribulation starts when the abomination is placed. You really thought that was after Jesus returned?

 

[Timtofly]

The Tribulation starts when the abomination is placed. You really thought that was after Jesus returned?

No the trouble starts with the 1st Trumpet. The last 42 months starts and then the AoD.

 

[The Light]

The 6th seal is talking about what happens at the 7th trump.

That's impossible because the trumps cannot begin until the 7th seal is opened. Completely bad logic. That's like saying that a car drives off a cliff at the 7th trump and its the same event at the sixth seal, and yet the engine is not started until the 7th seal. Logic is not correct.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is a thread to discuss the invasion of Israel by the forces led by the Northern power. This thread is not for people that view Revelations and most prophesies as history or present. So here is the question, and it is from a standpoint of asking rather than knowing it all.

Ezekiel 38:18
And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord God , that my fury shall come up in my face.

So could this be the start of the Tribulation, where the Rapture occurs? The start of God's wrath!?
This great war sounds like it is not the final war, where nations gathered (again in Israel) just when He returns to earth and destroys them all. The final in Rev 19 battle is similar in that birds are called to dispose of the dead people. Are these 2 different battles?
If so, why? If not, why?

I believe this is towards the end of the period of time called the great tribulation.

Alot of stuff which are part of Gods wrath occures before this event

 

[dad]

No the trouble starts with the 1st Trumpet. The last 42 months starts and then the AoD.

Looking at the rampaging horsemen in the vials, it seems trouble starts before the trumpets. The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is placed 1260 days before Jesus returns. Not sure what you call the abomination, but the one in the bible cannot be placed after Jesus returns to earth. Like He would not toss the punk into the lake, and allow him to have a kingdom etc?

 

[dad]

I believe this is towards the end of the period of time called the great tribulation.

Alot of stuff which are part of Gods wrath occures before this event

OK. Fair enough.
You think the nations invading Israel from the north will do so at the tail end of the Tribulation. One question comes to mind about that. If the covenant that is signed and broken midway involves Israel, why are nations invading it after that is in place? Nations whose forces are wiped out no less? One would think that if the world government forces existed at the end of the Tribulation, that Russia, Iran, Libya, Turkey and etc would not be allowed to invade a place that was covenant protected.