Time frames we have to work with

[Spiritual Israelite]

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1 week (7 years) - Daniel 9:27
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Lately I'm not certain whether the entire 70th week is future or just the final half. What I am certain about is this, though. Following the end of the 70th week that is when we will see the bodily return of Christ eventually. And not this instead. At the end of the 70th week there are at least 2000 more years before the bodily return of Christ occurs.

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42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
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In my view this equals the last half of the 70th week. Therefore, my answer is the same as to my answer to the first one involving---1 week (7 years) - Daniel 9:27

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3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11
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This one is not easy since it likely is not meaning 3.5 literal days, but that it symbolizes something instead. Regardless what the case might be, at the end of this 3.5 days the bodily return of Christ soon follows. How soon after? Not certain. But it wouldn't be involving years, that years later the return of Christ occurs. When we are at the end of this 3.5 days, the bodily return of Christ is very near, not still years away instead.

How you can determine that the 3 1/2 days is not literal, but somehow the 42 months and all the other time periods mentioned have to be literal is beyond me. Seems pretty selective to me. I think it makes more sense to be consistent and see all of those time period as either literal or symbolic (I see them as symbolic).

 

[Douggg]

Yes, I believe Satan was controlling or ruling during Jesus’s ministry.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Do you have any scriptural evidence containing 42 months of a Satan being ruler, i.e. 42 months in the text ?

 

[Douggg]

Yes, but perhaps not in the way that is often understood.

There is but One kingdom, and the transition (except for "those who are alive and remain" in the world until the end) is the end of this old world. That is the time spoken of as the sounding of the seventh angel. Just prior to that "time no longer" is the means that will "finish the mystery of God as He declared to His servants the prophets." Which are the last words of God, fulfilling "before they spring forth, I tell you of them" by Isaiah.

The seventh angel sounding reveals the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Revelation 8:13). In Revelation 12:12, the third woe to the inhabiiters of the earth is made known - Satan cast down to earth having great wrath knowing that he has but a little time left.

Satan cast down to earth is God's first step to destroying Satan and his angels' kingdom of Babylon the Great a mystical kingdom, which has influenced the kingdoms of this world in an evil way since the beginning of creation.

The days of the seventh angel sounding is the time, times, half time that Satan will have remaining before Jesus returns bringing the kingdom of heaven to this earth to be the Kingdom of God to rule over the nations.

 

[Douggg]

okay fellow saints, let's add in the remainder of the time frames we have to work with....

 

[TribulationSigns]

okay fellow saints, let's add in the remainder of the time frames we have to work with....


View attachment 45905

Ahem... I see alot of Speculations, misinterpretations, and misplacement of timelines. Sad.

 

[Zao is life]

If it wasn't for this part in Daniel 9:27 below, you and I wouldn't even be having this discussion to begin with. We would be in full agreement about everything you just said.

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

If it were part of the 70 weeks prophecy it would have occurred before the completion of the 70 weeks. But it is not part of the 70 weeks.

All it's saying, is that the people of the prince who would come were going to destroy the city - note - DESTROY the city AND the sanctuary (the 2nd temple) - and this would occur because of the abominations (PLURAL) that would cause the 2nd temple building along with the abominable sacrifices for sins that continued to take place after the Messiah died for sin, to be totally consumed with destruction.

I'm sorry that you refuse to accept, but that's on you not me, that that too is something that occurs during the 70th week.

I'm sorry you refuse to accept the historical fact that the people of the prince who came and DESTROYED the city AND the sanctuary did not do so during the 70th week.

24 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city, to (1) finish the transgression and (2) to make an end of sins, and (3) to make atonement for iniquity, and (4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and (5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and (6) to anoint the Most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going out of the command to restore and to build Jerusalem, to Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks.

26 And AFTER sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.

You obviously have reading comprehension issues that prevent you from understanding who and what the 70 weeks was about.

So I'm sorry that your reading comprehension issues cause you to refuse to accept that THE REASON that the destruction of the city and the temple that is mentioned in verses 26-27 did not take place within the 70 weeks is because the 70 weeks was neither about them nor about that destruction - it was about the Messiah ONLY.

 

[Douggg]

So I'm sorry that your reading comprehension issues cause you to refuse to accept that THE REASON that the destruction of the city and the temple that is mentioned in verses 26-27 did not take place within the 70 weeks is because the 70 weeks was neither about them nor about that destruction - it was about the Messiah ONLY.

"because the 70 weeks was neither about them nor about that destruction - it was about the Messiah ONLY.

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No, the 70 weeks....

Daniel 9: 24 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city,

The 70th week remains unfulfilled.

 

[Zao is life]

If it wasn't for this part in Daniel 9:27 below

and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

There's NO verse 27 in Daniel. A Christian scholar added the verses and chapters in 1227 AD.

Until this LINE in the text there has been only ONE subject:

"And the people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end of it shall be with the flood, and ruins are determined, until the end shall be war".

That second subject introduced there is NOT included in the 70 weeks because the 70 weeks ACCORDING TO DANIEL IN VERSES 24-25 up until the first sentence in verse 26, IS ABOUT THE MESSIAH.

The people of the ruler who shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary is ANOTHER subject.

Just because a scholar included the OTHER SUBJECT in verse 26 of HIS division of the scriptures into chapters and verses, does not mean that you can impose the inclusion of the OTHER SUBJECT upon Daniel who made ONLY the Messiah the subject of the 70 weeks when he spoke about the 70 weeks in verses 24-25 - DANIEL did NOT MAKE the OTHER people or the OTHER prince or the OTHER subject about the DESTRUCTION of THE CITY and of THE TEMPLE part of the 70 weeks.

YOU are doing that. NOT Daniel.

If you don't believe scripture, at least believe history.

 

[Zao is life]

"because the 70 weeks was neither about them nor about that destruction - it was about the Messiah ONLY.

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Daniel 9: 24 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city,

Daniel 9:24-25 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city, to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins, and to make atonement for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

Conveniently you left out the rest of the verse so as to leave out what the 70 weeks was about in order to imply that it was about the coming destruction of the city and temple by the coming people of another coming prince.

What do verses 24-25 tell us that the 70 weeks decreed for the people and the city were for?

Why did you leave it out?

I'll tell you why you left it out - because the fact that the 70 weeks is only about the Messiah is inconvenient to the lie you have chosen to believe and are pushing.

Daniel 9:24-25 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city, to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins, and to make atonement for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

Know therefore and understand, that from the going out of the command to restore and to build Jerusalem, to Messiah the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks. The street shall be built again, and the wall, even in times of affliction. And after sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself.

Amazing how subtle your twisting of the above scripture is, the way you left out the purpose of the 70 weeks. It was a case of:

"Don't quote the rest of the sentence, which tells us who and what the subject of the 70 weeks is about. No, don't quote it. Hide it. No one must see it".

"because the 70 weeks was neither about them nor about that destruction - it was about the Messiah ONLY.

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Daniel 9: 24 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city,

 

[Douggg]

Conveniently you left out the rest of the verse so as to leave out what the 70 weeks was about in order to imply that it was about the coming destruction of the city and temple by the coming people of another coming prince.

No, my point was that your statement that the seventy weeks are about the messiah is incorrect.

The messiah's arrival and being cutoff not for himself is part of the 70 weeks determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem, but not all of it.

There are 15 time frames of prophecy events that will fit into that 70th week. See my post #44.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"because the 70 weeks was neither about them nor about that destruction - it was about the Messiah ONLY.

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No, the 70 weeks....

Daniel 9: 24 Seventy weeks are decreed as to your people and as to your holy city,

The 70th week remains unfulfilled.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Do you believe that all six things listed here that would be fulfilled by the end of the 70 weeks are still unfulfilled? If not, then which of them do you believe are fulfilled?

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Do you believe that all six things listed here that would be fulfilled by the end of the 70 weeks are still unfulfilled? If not, then which of them do you believe are fulfilled?

I believe the things I highlighted in red are still unfulfilled, but will be fulfilled in the 7 year 70th week.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

to bring in everlasting righteousness - the kingdom of heaven brought to earth at Jesus's return to be the Kingdom of God over the natiions. At the end of the 7 year 70th week.

to seal up the vision - the 2300 day vision of the little horn's time of the end actions. In the 7 year 70th week.

and prophecy - the prophecies related to the 15 time-frames of events we are given to work with (see my post #44). Fit within the 7 year 70th week.

to anoint the most Holy - Jesus return to this earth as King of kings and Lord of lords and recognized by Israel as their King messiah. (Psalms 2:6-7. Psalms 2 is about the kings of the earth gathering their armies to make war on Jesus.) At the end of the 7 year 70th week.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I believe the things I highlighted in red are still unfulfilled, but will be fulfilled in the 7 year 70th week.

Thanks for the response.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

to bring in everlasting righteousness - the kingdom of heaven brought to earth at Jesus's return to be the Kingdom of God over the natiions. At the end of the 7 year 70th week.

You obviously interpret that in a literal sense, but how can you conclude that everlasting righteousness is brought in at that point, when you believe the following occurs 1,000 years later:

Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season....7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

There is a little season after the thousand years end where Satan is allowed to wreak havoc and lots of unrighteousness is going on during that time. So, how can "everlasting righteousness" have already been literally brought in before that? Doesn't seem like the righteousness that you believe will be brought in 1,000 years before that is everlasting. Seems to me that if understood in a literal sense, everlasting righteousness will not be brought in until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, which you believe occurs 1,000+ years after Christ returns.

to seal up the vision - the 2300 day vision of the little horn's time of the end actions. In the 7 year 70th week.

and prophecy - the prophecies related to the 15 time-frames of events we are given to work with (see my post #44). Fit within the 7 year 70th week.

No, it's talking about the 70 week vision and prophecy itself. You are reading things into this that don't fit the context of the 70 week prophecy.

to anoint the most Holy - Jesus return to this earth as King of kings and Lord of lords and recognized by Israel as their King messiah. (Psalms 2:6-7. Psalms 2 is about the kings of the earth gathering their armies to make war on Jesus.) At the end of the 7 year 70th week.

Jesus was anointed already long ago. It's not up to people to decide when He would be anointed, it was up to God the Father.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus was anointed already long ago. It's not up to people to decide when He would be anointed, it was up to God the Father.

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Acts 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ. 27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

In Psalms 2:7 Jesus begotten (anointed) as the King of Israel. At Jesus's return.

Psalms 2.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

There is a little season after the thousand years end where Satan is allowed to wreak havoc and lots of unrighteousness is going on during that time. So, how can "everlasting righteousness" have already been literally brought in before that? Doesn't seem like the righteousness that you believe will be brought in 1,000 years before that is everlasting. Seems to me that if understood in a literal sense, everlasting righteousness will not be brought in until the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, which you believe occurs 1,000+ years after Christ returns.

If you think everlasting righteousness will not have been brought in by the millennium, then how can it be bought in - in the past ?

I understand your point, but Satan's brief led rebellion will be without his mystical kingdom of Babylon the Great, as his group of angels will not be part of that activity.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In Psalms 2:7 Jesus begotten (anointed) as the King of Israel. At Jesus's return.

Psalms 2.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Where does that scripture say He would be anointed at His return? I showed you scripture which shows He was anointed already long ago and you just ignore them all. Who should I believe? The authors of scripture or you?

If you think everlasting righteousness will not have been brought in by the millennium, then how can it be bought in - in the past ?

I'm glad you asked. Clearly, neither of our views can be correct if we take it to be talking about literally bringing in everlasting righteousness because that wouldn't line up with either of our views on when the 70th week ended or will end.

I believe all six things listed in Daniel 9:24 go hand in hand. Even you acknowledge that making an end of sin was already fulfilled by Jesus long ago, right? Well, was it the literal end of sin? No. It has to do with Him taking away and forgiving sins by way of His sacrifice on the cross. Similarly, bringing in everlasting righteousness is not to be understood as the literal bringing in of everlasting righteousness which would imply there no longer being any wickedness. Instead, it should be understood in the sense of Jesus making the way for everlasting righteousness and everlasting life by way of His death and resurrection.

I understand your point, but Satan's brief led rebellion will be without his mystical kingdom of Babylon the Great, as his group of angels will not be part of that activity.

I disagree with that, but so what if that was the case? What difference would that make? It still will be a time of wickedness and not righteousness. So, it's not reasonable to conclude that everlasting righteousness would have literally been brought in before that.

 

[ScottA]

The seventh angel sounding reveals the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth (Revelation 8:13). In Revelation 12:12, the third woe to the inhabiiters of the earth is made known - Satan cast down to earth having great wrath knowing that he has but a little time left.

Satan cast down to earth is God's first step to destroying Satan and his angels' kingdom of Babylon the Great a mystical kingdom, which has influenced the kingdoms of this world in an evil way since the beginning of creation.

The days of the seventh angel sounding is the time, times, half time that Satan will have remaining before Jesus returns bringing the kingdom of heaven to this earth to be the Kingdom of God to rule over the nations.

True enough, but have you actually understood.

Satan being cast down was the beginning of the seven, while the sounding of the seventh angel is the end of the seven, the commencement of "time no longer."

 

[Douggg]

True enough, but have you actually understood.

Satan being cast down was the beginning of the seven, while the sounding of the seventh angel is the end of the seven, the commencement of "time no longer."

I am not sure of what you mean by "the seven".

But here is a chart I made of when the seventh angel sounds his trumpet. I also show the seventh angel sounding on the second timeline chart below this one.

 

[Douggg]

I disagree with that, but so what if that was the case? What difference would that make? It still will be a time of wickedness and not righteousness. So, it's not reasonable to conclude that everlasting righteousness would have literally been brought in before that.

The righteousness of God is an everlasting righteousness. Psalms 119:142

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS IN THE BIBLE

See 'everlasting righteousness' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

So when we pray in the Lord's prayer, "thy kingdom come, that will be done on earth as it in heaven" are we not praying about the kingdom of God becoming the ruling kingdom over the nations ?

And will that not be fulfilled when Jesus returns ?

So I think everlasting righteousness, i.e. the righteousness of God, will be the standard of the 1000 years. But for a brief time, once the 1000 years is complete, some of the nations will be deceived, and not observe the everlasting righteousness that became the standard during the 1000 years.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The righteousness of God is an everlasting righteousness. Psalms 119:142

Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

What was the point of posting this? If this was the way to understand everlasting righteousness, then everlasting righteousness would never be brought in because it would have always existed. Clearly, this is not the sense in which Daniel 9:24 is talking about everlasting righteousness.

So when we pray in the Lord's prayer, "thy kingdom come, that will be done on earth as it in heaven" are we not praying about the kingdom of God becoming the ruling kingdom over the nations ?

No. Not in the way you understand it, anyway. We're not supposed to be praying for His kingdom to come and rule over the wicked nations of the earth, we should be praying for His kingdom to bring perfection to the earth after doing away with sin and death forever. That is what will happen when Jesus returns and renews the heavens and the earth by fire, resulting in the new heavens and new earth, just as Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:3-13.

And will that not be fulfilled when Jesus returns ?

No, not in the way you understand it.

So I think everlasting righteousness, i.e. the righteousness of God, will be the standard of the 1000 years. But for a brief time, once the 1000 years is complete, some of the nations will be deceived, and not observe the everlasting righteousness that became the standard during the 1000 years.

That is not everlasting righteousness. It would be a thousand years of righteousness, followed by "a brief time" of wickedness, and only after that would there be everlasting righteousness since the wicked would be destroyed at that point.

 

[Stash]

In order to put all the events of the end times together into one timeline, we have been given a number of time frames to work with.

I am going to list the ones I can think of. And if you have an opinion or want to add, please make a post.

1 week (7 years) - Daniel 9:27

1260 days - Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

42 months - Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5

3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11

5 months - Revelation 9:10

1290 days, 1335 days - Daniel 12:11-12

time, times, half time - Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25. Daniel 12:7

2300 days - Daniel 8:14

7 years - Ezekiel 39:9

7 months - Ezekiel 39:12

1000 years - Revelation 20:4, Revelation 20:7

Sometimes I wanna laugh when I see everybody’s timetables, but I can see there was a lot of effort put in, so I’ll hold back on that

Shepherd Chapel pastor Arnold Murray said watch the month between May and October. That is the locust armies timetable.

So I figure out pastor Murray knows quite a bit more about the Bible than anybody here or even myself of course so it would be wise to listen to him and so I did

I counted the days after Passover, which is roughly 150 days or five months

All the signs of heaven are pointing in this direction, including the eclipses, etc.

From Pentecost at 75 days or 2 1/2 months it brings you into August 2

Somewhere around the Olympics when I think the UFOs are going to show up

Now that takes us Rosh Hashanah

So we were warned by the eclipse to repent we had 40 days that took us to Pentecost

Of course we did not repent so that will take us to Rosh Hashanah

Add the 10 days of last chance to repent and that brings you to Yom Kippur

That is the day I believe the REAL Jesus will show, and everybody that has been worshiping the antichrist will wish the mountains would fall on them

So basically, while everybody’s looking at timetables, they don’t realize that it is time up now

Have a nice day. I hope this helps.