Three (3) Advents?

[ScottA]

so we can take this as you have no scriptures to support your belife.
well then, you said, "But none of that is true, that is the thinking of men". but you have no scriptures to prove what we say is not true. so I agree we need not to argue, I say just consider what I have posted.

PICJAG

I quote the scriptures with quotations and also without, paraphrasing all that is written in plain language. But here after I have done so again, you say that I have no scripture. Well, that is a lie, easily proven in the posts above. One need only look for the quotation marks in my posts.

And why then should I continue offering you any further explanation? (Rhetorical)

 

[101G]

I quote the scriptures with quotations and also without, paraphrasing all that is written in plain language. But here after I have done so again, you say that I have no scripture. Well, that is a lie, easily proven in the posts above. One need only look for the quotation marks in my posts.

And why then should I continue offering you any further explanation? (Rhetorical)

NONESENSE, put the Book chapter and verse in front of your quotation please. thanks in advanse.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

sorry, cain't buy that. our manifestation is his IMAGE. and in his image is to be given eternal life. yes man corrupted his IMAGE, for, and listen good, Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. man was not made vanity, but was SUBJECT to it, meaning he had a choice. it is God responsibility to RESTORE what became Corrupted. that's why, 1Cor 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality". so it was not God making us flawed, but RESTORING his IMAGE.... MAN to his original state. so Man was not made flawed, but was made "innocent" in perfection. it was his/man choice to live or die, God chose life for us. and when man died, God had a plan of restoration or what we call salvation to restore LIFE to man, for God so loved the World that he gave HIMSEL/his only begotten son, that whosoever believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
so man was not made flawed by God, in any manifestation, but it was us who chosed to be corrupt. for in the day that you eat, you shall die. no one forced man to eat. it was man choice. but if man sin, God fore knowledge had a plan ready just for this.

now if you have another scripture or scriptures to support your belief please post it.

PICJAG.

If you can't, then don't.

Nonetheless, the truth is that all are either sons of their father Satan, or sons of God the body of only One begotten of God. But you mistake what is meant by "in His image." It simply means that He visibly manifested all that is in Him and on high. It does not mean that all is perfect, but rather that all who are His, though they are not perfect, shall become perfect--which is to say, spirit, as He is spirit.

 

[ScottA]

NONESENSE, put the Book chapter and verse in front of your quotation please. thanks in advanse.

PICJAG.

No. As it is written, you can "Hear what the spirit says to the churches" or "hear and not perceive." It is enough.

 

[101G]

If you can't, then don't.

Nonetheless, the truth is that all are either sons of their father Satan, or sons of God the body of only One begotten of God. But you mistake what is meant by "in His image." It simply means that He visibly manifested all that is in Him and on high. It does not mean that all is perfect, but rather that all who are His, though they are not perfect, shall become perfect--which is to say, spirit, as He is spirit.

see this is exacitly what I been saying. you said, "It does not mean that all is perfect, but rather that all who are His". for you said in post #86

John says differently, that we see Him when we see Him "as He is", which having gone to the Father whom is spirit, is only spirit. Therefore, Jesus said, "the world sees me no more, but you will see me", and this He confirms saying, that we, like Him, become One in spirit with the Father--having no flesh at all, but "perfect" being only spirit also.

question was not Noah "PERFECT?". Gen 6:9 “These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God”. Noah, was he not a descendant of Adam? And was Perfect? and in flesh.
Norah was Just, meaning declared RIGHTIOUS. now unless there are levels of "PERFECTION" then we're all lost.

now, one more, scripture please, where is the Lord Jesus body that he rose up at? book chapter and verse please.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

see this is exacitly what I been saying. you said, "It does not mean that all is perfect, but rather that all who are His". for you said in post #86

question was not Noah "PERFECT?". Gen 6:9 “These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God”. Noah, was he not a descendant of Adam? And was Perfect? and in flesh.
Norah was Just, meaning declared RIGHTIOUS. now unless there are levels of "PERFECTION" then we're all lost.

now, one more, scripture please, where is the Lord Jesus body that he rose up at? book chapter and verse please.

PICJAG.

No, Noah was not perfect as God is perfect, but rather perfect before God to do according to His will for the generations to come, meaning perfect for the task, perfect to serve. Noah was condemned and died under sin and needed salvation like any man.

As for Jesus' body, as it is written:

1 Corinthians 12:27
"Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually." Meaning, the church.

 

[101G]

first thanks for reply, as for the body, the one he rose up according to,
John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
THIS BODY, HIS TEMPLE? THAT ONE. so Scott, where is that body/temple that he rose up? book chapter and verse please.

now perfect: having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be.
now, do you agree with the bible, and what it says about our brother Noah?

PICJAG

 

[101G]

No, Noah was not perfect as God is perfect, but rather perfect before God to do according to His will for the generations to come, meaning perfect for the task, perfect to serve.

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
PICJAG.

That is the objective.

 

[101G]

That is the objective.

well our Brother Noah meet the objective because,
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Not that he "shall" be perfect, or "Will" be perfect, the bible is clear, he was perfect. so that objective was meet.

now our Lord's body. where is it that he rose up?

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

well our Brother Noah meet the objective because,
Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Not that he "shall" be perfect, or "Will" be perfect, the bible is clear, he was perfect. so that objective was meet.

PICJAG.

Take it up with Jesus who said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.", and "Most assuredly, I say to you, again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, and John who said, "for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

And He will answer, "None are made perfect, except through Me."

 

[ScottA]

now our Lord's body. where is it that he rose up?

He physically rose from the dead in the world where His church remains until the end. Then, in spirit, He ascended to be with the Father. This the word from the scriptures.

 

[101G]

Take it up with Jesus who said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.", and "Most assuredly, I say to you, again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”, and John who said, "for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."

And He will answer, "None are made perfect, except through Me."

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
the Holy Ghost was not "poured out on ...... ALL FLESH yet" . supportive scripture, Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying". was our Lord glorified then?
see "GIVEN", prement dwelling...

now, "MADE PERFECT", SCRIPTURE,
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

now are you obeying God in everything? ......................... if Iwas you, "don't answer that". but through him we are made perfect. well wthat about those before he came and obeyed? just read Hebrews 11 and being "Rightious" meaning,
G1343 δικαιοσύνη dikaiosune (d̮iy-kai-o-sï '-nee) n.
1. equity (of character or act).
2. righteousness.
3. (specially) the Righteousness ascribed by trust in Jesus.
[from G1342]
KJV: righteousness

the term "perfect" in Matthews 5:48 is G5046 τέλειος teleios (te'-lei-os) adj.
complete.
{(neuter as noun, with G3588) completeness; in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.}
[from G5056]
KJV: of full age, man, perfect

1. equity (of character or act). ................ and moral character, etc. bingo. scott, do you know what "character" means? answer "SON". it's the Greek word, G5207 huios, like in Son of man or Son of God, God like "characteristics".... ;)
JESUS was made perfect how in the flesh? see again Heb 5:8 & 9 again.........

and let me hit you with something, the body of Christ? ..... Rom 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another". but is not Christ the "HEAD" of the Church his .... body? and is he not in you, (the body?). this is only symbolic language for the work of the body in obediance to God himself. we're his HANDS and FEET "LITERALLY" when Christ was on the EARTH literally he didn't Go into all the world. now he, the HEAD dwells in us, now goes into all the world. for when the apostle Paul step in Rome Christ Jesus step in Rome. when the apostle Peter step in our brother Capt. Cornelius house in Acts chapter 10, Christ step there. are you getting this.

so your use of 1 Corinthians 12:27 was incorrect as for the Body of Christ. then you said,

He physically rose from the dead in the world where His church remains until the end. Then, in spirit, He ascended to be with the Father. This the word from the scriptures.

ERROR, for did he not returned in Spirit on Pentecost? is not this what you said also? ok, if his body was left here on EARTH as you said, (the resurrected one), where is it, and what is it doing? book chapter and verse please.

now if you want to say, "oh his body is the Church", ERROR the church is being built, it did not rise, it's under ongoing construction. so you cannot use that excuse, we're speaking of the "RESURRECTED" body he was in when he told his disciple to "HANDLE" him and put their hand in his side, ...... THAT BODY, the one you said, "He physically rose from the dead in the world where His church remains until the end". yes, that BODY. thanks in advance.

PICJAG.

 

[Naomi25]

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that God manifest us in the way we were flawed, in order to save us from ourselves and certain destruction, to feel the weight of our loss and to rescue us if we would be rescued, and if not that we and evil would be destroyed forever.

There is nothing in the bible against these truths, but for it.

I'm sorry, but that makes little sense to me. Rational, or biblical.

 

[Naomi25]

This is like Jesus asking the multitudes what they went out to see in going into the wilderness to see John the Baptist. In other words...what did you expect, that God being spirit would create a race of inferior beings? No, He created us to reveal our faults and our need for His spiritual perfection--that we should be prefect as He is perfect.

Yes...and then we had the fall. Followed by the OT. I'm assuming you've read and followed the general gist of the OT? After the fracturing of God's first vision for mankind, we then proved over, and over again, that we are incapable of 'being perfect as he is perfect'. Heck, most of us don't even want to try. And those of us who do, just can't keep it together. The "heros" from the OT are amazing, but they do point rather overwhelmingly to the fact that even those chosen 'faithful' of God, still fall down in a variety of ways.
The thing about this is; it did not surprise or dismay God. From the moment he pronounced in the garden of a 'coming seed', he always knew mankind would need a Saviour.
The idea that now that Christ has come we are capable of pushing on to the sort of perfection that Adam and Eve had in the garden before the fall is unbiblical, however. We have Paul, a giant of the faith, admitting to running a race, of pressing on to attaining a goal at the end of it. We have John telling us that if we claim to not have sin the truth is not in us. We have Paul calling Peter out ON sin. And then we can also look at the incredible men and women of faith down through the annals of time and see that as incredible as their faith was...they were not sin free. And sin free is what is promised to us.
So, if you are claiming to be sin free, or to be able to become sin free in the here and now, that is directly contrary to biblical teaching. Sorry. I mean; it's good for us to 'run that race'...to strive towards being ever more Christ-like. But the idea of reaching it while still dwelling in a sinful world and a fallen body is just not taught in God's word.

But also, the disciples were on the cusp of the end of the house of Israel who died in their sins, and also on the beginning of the times of the gentiles who would be invited into the fold after "It is finished." They did not preach flesh to flesh, but spirit to flesh that they/we might hear and be saved. As Jesus clearly stated, "The world sees Me no more." Thus, only those born of the spirit of God--which was not preached to or for Israel, but to and for the gentiles--would be all that would be saved during these times, for the end of the flesh died with Christ on the cross. And yet we are many generations, and therefore a type of blindness came upon Israel and also upon the gentiles, that the message of salvation and the time of the end would be consistent over these many generations until the end. Thus, what is born of the flesh is flesh and is destroyed, and what is born of the spirit of God is spirit and saved.

You know...there is just a lot of wishy washy language there that just doesn't mean a lot. Sorry. I am completely happy to acknowledge that the bible speaks of the spiritual as well as the physical. But the spiritual is not mystical and the flesh, while weak now, is not inherently evil. It, like the earth itself, is to be redeemed. The bible puts so much hope on resurrection. On the fact that if we don't have that hope for the future, we are 'of men to be most pitied'. If we were able to be perfected, in spirit now, and that was the pinnacle of the experience, why do you suppose Paul speaks in such depths of resurrection? Why was it important for Christ to be the firstfruits of resurrection? And he was resurrected in a physical body. All orthodoxy agrees to that and is fully supported by scripture.
God's plan for the future is a return to Eden; a perfected earth, with no sin or corruption. Likewise his plan for us is to be without sin or corruption. But as he made us in the beginning; body and spirit. We know the spirit goes on after death, but again, Paul makes a big deal about the body NEEDING to experience death for it to become what it needs to in order to proceed into that new state. Death, or the return of Christ, in which case 'some of us will not sleep'.
These are fairly clear and rational biblical doctrines, and there is no need to start playing around in mystical ideas about abandoning the flesh or transcending it while perfecting the spirit.
Also...I believe the bible says that the gospel of Jesus Christ was to be preached "to the Jew first, then to the Gentile". And in fact, the church began with Jews, who took it to the Gentiles. So...not sure where you're going with that thought there.

But it would be a shame, if in your spirit you did not hear the spirit, but heard only those things of the spirit as if they were for the flesh. That was never the case. But rather: "He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches."

I have told you the truth.

Well, here's the interesting thing. You might want to dismiss the flesh, but your spirit is surrounded by a meat suit just as much as anyone else's is. You can't really run away from it. So in theory you might believe you're more spiritual than other Christians, but until that time as you shed it...ie: die...you will still be subject to that which we all are: sin, sickness, death. So your preaching is a little sanctimonious I feel.
As far as me hearing the Spirit....well, that's not something you'll ever know, is it? You claim superior experience but unless you know the spiritual life of others, the relationship and growth they have in God, they hope and love they dwell in, that's just a little beyond your purview isn't it?
An no....you have told me what you believe to be the truth...not necessarily what IS the truth.

 

[Naomi25]

This, holding onto the horizons of this world, is worthy of its own response:

Luke 9:25
"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?"

Sooo....what. By believing that Christ is physically coming again, and that sin and death remains in this world and, to an extent, within us too (which has bible verses to back it up), I'm gaining the world and destroying my soul?
Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd rather stick with the bible, rather than just some guy I don't know, k?

 

[Naomi25]

Again, a need for a specific response:

Your "proof" will come in the end.

Meanwhile, the truth of which I repeated to you was shown and written, and it stands: Only Jesus' spirit went to the Father...just as He said.

Continuing on...

No, you "know" nothing of the sort. That is not what it says.

I. Don't even know what to say to the above. I don't really see it needs replying to.

And, no, His body did not "go missing"...His body is the church. These things are all written, and I have repeated them to you--apparently you are not paying attention.

And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. -Luke 24:2–3

Body MISSING.

So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him. -Matthew 28:8–9

Body APPEARED. NOT as the Church. We also see his body eat, touch things and tell others he is NOT a ghost. So please, do tell how Jesus' body is 'the Church'. And yes, of course I know the analogy Paul uses, and it's a very helpful picture. But clearly the bible teaches Christ has his OWN body as well.

As for Colossians...you are being silly. You are not tracking with all that is written.

I am merely following your thought through to it's logical conclusion. IF Christ's "body" is the Church, then we must understand that Christ himself is only a head. Because Paul tells us that Christ is the head of the body. No? Of course, if we're talking symbolism, then that's okay then. But if we ARE talking symbolism, then you cannot deny the bible speaks of Christ also have a physical body. Unless you want to deny all those passages that speak of him being physical.

What is written in allegory is the church is the body of Christ which becomes the temple of God as living [spiritual] stones.

You have lots to catch up on--you have missed a lot of important information.

I do allegory just fine; I'm an Amillennialist. What I object to is dismissing scriptures that have no clear or obvious reasons to be read that way. Paul's illustration of the Church 'body'? Clearly an image. All the stories about Christ's risen physical body? NOT allegory. And we know this because if any of it can be cast into allegory, then the whole resurrection is cast into doubt. And without the resurrection we are left with half a gospel. Which....mmm. Might be where you're at.

 

[ScottA]

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
the Holy Ghost was not "poured out on ...... ALL FLESH yet" . supportive scripture, Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying". was our Lord glorified then?
see "GIVEN", prement dwelling...

now, "MADE PERFECT", SCRIPTURE,
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

now are you obeying God in everything? ......................... if Iwas you, "don't answer that". but through him we are made perfect. well wthat about those before he came and obeyed? just read Hebrews 11 and being "Rightious" meaning,
G1343 δικαιοσύνη dikaiosune (d̮iy-kai-o-sï '-nee) n.
1. equity (of character or act).
2. righteousness.
3. (specially) the Righteousness ascribed by trust in Jesus.
[from G1342]
KJV: righteousness

the term "perfect" in Matthews 5:48 is G5046 τέλειος teleios (te'-lei-os) adj.
complete.
{(neuter as noun, with G3588) completeness; in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.}
[from G5056]
KJV: of full age, man, perfect

1. equity (of character or act). ................ and moral character, etc. bingo. scott, do you know what "character" means? answer "SON". it's the Greek word, G5207 huios, like in Son of man or Son of God, God like "characteristics".... ;)
JESUS was made perfect how in the flesh? see again Heb 5:8 & 9 again.........

and let me hit you with something, the body of Christ? ..... Rom 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another". but is not Christ the "HEAD" of the Church his .... body? and is he not in you, (the body?). this is only symbolic language for the work of the body in obediance to God himself. we're his HANDS and FEET "LITERALLY" when Christ was on the EARTH literally he didn't Go into all the world. now he, the HEAD dwells in us, now goes into all the world. for when the apostle Paul step in Rome Christ Jesus step in Rome. when the apostle Peter step in our brother Capt. Cornelius house in Acts chapter 10, Christ step there. are you getting this.

so your use of 1 Corinthians 12:27 was incorrect as for the Body of Christ. then you said,

ERROR, for did he not returned in Spirit on Pentecost? is not this what you said also? ok, if his body was left here on EARTH as you said, (the resurrected one), where is it, and what is it doing? book chapter and verse please.

now if you want to say, "oh his body is the Church", ERROR the church is being built, it did not rise, it's under ongoing construction. so you cannot use that excuse, we're speaking of the "RESURRECTED" body he was in when he told his disciple to "HANDLE" him and put their hand in his side, ...... THAT BODY, the one you said, "He physically rose from the dead in the world where His church remains until the end". yes, that BODY. thanks in advance.

PICJAG.

Luke 1:67
"And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,"

John 7:39
"(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)"

You, like the atheists, can say these two statements do not agree...but it is not God who is the liar.

You misunderstand. Of course the Holy Spirit acted before Jesus was glorified--He is God, "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Why then this note of difference in the scriptures, if not that there was a difference, and indeed there was. But now you saying "No there is not", in an attempt to catch me in error, you side not against me, but against God.

I have told you the truth. And that truth is this: that "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (Jesus), not from Noah, nor from the first even to the last.

So, now, by weaseling around the advent issue trying to prove that the inheritance of the kingdom of God is available to flesh and bone, which "cannot" happen...you also come to call God a liar.

Like I said, "Why then should I continue offering you any further explanation? (Rhetorical)"

Enough.

 

[ScottA]

I'm sorry, but that makes little sense to me. Rational, or biblical.

That much is obvious.

 

[ScottA]

Yes...and then we had the fall. Followed by the OT. I'm assuming you've read and followed the general gist of the OT? After the fracturing of God's first vision for mankind, we then proved over, and over again, that we are incapable of 'being perfect as he is perfect'. Heck, most of us don't even want to try. And those of us who do, just can't keep it together. The "heros" from the OT are amazing, but they do point rather overwhelmingly to the fact that even those chosen 'faithful' of God, still fall down in a variety of ways.
The thing about this is; it did not surprise or dismay God. From the moment he pronounced in the garden of a 'coming seed', he always knew mankind would need a Saviour.
The idea that now that Christ has come we are capable of pushing on to the sort of perfection that Adam and Eve had in the garden before the fall is unbiblical, however. We have Paul, a giant of the faith, admitting to running a race, of pressing on to attaining a goal at the end of it. We have John telling us that if we claim to not have sin the truth is not in us. We have Paul calling Peter out ON sin. And then we can also look at the incredible men and women of faith down through the annals of time and see that as incredible as their faith was...they were not sin free. And sin free is what is promised to us.
So, if you are claiming to be sin free, or to be able to become sin free in the here and now, that is directly contrary to biblical teaching. Sorry. I mean; it's good for us to 'run that race'...to strive towards being ever more Christ-like. But the idea of reaching it while still dwelling in a sinful world and a fallen body is just not taught in God's word.


You know...there is just a lot of wishy washy language there that just doesn't mean a lot. Sorry. I am completely happy to acknowledge that the bible speaks of the spiritual as well as the physical. But the spiritual is not mystical and the flesh, while weak now, is not inherently evil. It, like the earth itself, is to be redeemed. The bible puts so much hope on resurrection. On the fact that if we don't have that hope for the future, we are 'of men to be most pitied'. If we were able to be perfected, in spirit now, and that was the pinnacle of the experience, why do you suppose Paul speaks in such depths of resurrection? Why was it important for Christ to be the firstfruits of resurrection? And he was resurrected in a physical body. All orthodoxy agrees to that and is fully supported by scripture.
God's plan for the future is a return to Eden; a perfected earth, with no sin or corruption. Likewise his plan for us is to be without sin or corruption. But as he made us in the beginning; body and spirit. We know the spirit goes on after death, but again, Paul makes a big deal about the body NEEDING to experience death for it to become what it needs to in order to proceed into that new state. Death, or the return of Christ, in which case 'some of us will not sleep'.
These are fairly clear and rational biblical doctrines, and there is no need to start playing around in mystical ideas about abandoning the flesh or transcending it while perfecting the spirit.
Also...I believe the bible says that the gospel of Jesus Christ was to be preached "to the Jew first, then to the Gentile". And in fact, the church began with Jews, who took it to the Gentiles. So...not sure where you're going with that thought there.


Well, here's the interesting thing. You might want to dismiss the flesh, but your spirit is surrounded by a meat suit just as much as anyone else's is. You can't really run away from it. So in theory you might believe you're more spiritual than other Christians, but until that time as you shed it...ie: die...you will still be subject to that which we all are: sin, sickness, death. So your preaching is a little sanctimonious I feel.
As far as me hearing the Spirit....well, that's not something you'll ever know, is it? You claim superior experience but unless you know the spiritual life of others, the relationship and growth they have in God, they hope and love they dwell in, that's just a little beyond your purview isn't it?
An no....you have told me what you believe to be the truth...not necessarily what IS the truth.

Your going on and on is obviously for good reason--you don't even understand from the very beginning of what is written: There was no "fracturing of God's first vision for mankind." Lacking in this very basic understanding...you have no ground for which to lecture or to presume to be wise. You are not.

Manifesting the fall of man in history form does not give the kingdom of God a timeline with regard to the events of men. It is rather, and simply for simplicity sake, a form of revelation regarding those things which occurred in God "in the twinkling of an eye", meaning timelessly with God. So, you can go on and on about your understanding of how things occurred, even when they occurred; you can even say Jesus was slain in the fullness of time--but the greater truth with God is also written and it was "before the foundation of the world."

So, no, God did not create a race of perfect or inferior beings to fix and glorify the flesh above His own spiritual perfection. There is no there, there. It is just an explanation, a revelation, "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

...And then you continue to go on and on stumbling without understanding. That is not the way to all truth. Perhaps if you didn't take such big bites--one thing at a time, we could look at some of those other points. Meanwhile, your rambling on is not helping.

One point at a time, please.