Three (3) Advents?

[ScottA]

Jews were told not to believe someone had to be from God just because he could perform signs and wonders. Have you not read this?

Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Nicodemus had read it, I am sure; and we see him trying to make sure he didn't fall for a swindler who was motivated by pride.

So what? You asked me for if the Bible said anywhere that Ezekiel could move like wind. I provided you examples. The least you could do is thank me for providing them.

I must have missed them. I do not doubt that some people can move like the wind; but when you expressed skepticism on the subject, I rather thought you had no clue about it meant. I still think you don't.

No...that's wrong. Nicodemus would also have read of the true prophets and even expected one like Moses to come. Moreover, Nicodemus actually said he knew Jesus was "from God." Your whole premise is completely off.

As for "So what?" if Ezekiel was caught up in the spirit-- That is the way God works. What happened to him is completely normal spiritual activity with God. Paul experienced something similar, so have I. But you are getting hung up on your own description of "move like the wind"...when it is just the way of the Spirit when He comes upon a person. It's God's way, it's normal.

It sounds like you are expecting God to act like men, instead of the other way around.

 

[ScottA]

GINOLJC, to all

ERROR, listen closley Scott,
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (read that again)
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

HOLD IT, Judas asked a very important question. "Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world". notice he asked, "how would he MANIFEST himself, himself, himself? excellent question. our Lord Jesus answer, verse 23. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him". abode here is to dwell. he is coming to dwell in us.
NOW, knowing this he is "COMING", and advent means arrival or "COMING". so the question still stand did the Lord Jesus come on the day of Pentecost? YES, and how did he COME? as Judas asked and the Lord responded, HE MANIFESTED HIMSELF. lest see it.

Scripture #1, Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
ok, we see that the Holy Ghost Came on Pentecost, so was it the Lord Jesus? scripture, Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. ok, what GIFTS? lets see, remember it was the out pouring of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost, correct. now this, 1Cor 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". HOLD it, but the what? .... the "MANIFESTATION" of the who? the Spirit. what did our Lord Jesus say to Judas in
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him". that's the "Manifestation" Judas ask the Lord Jesus about, how will you MANIFEST yourself. HOW? in the Spiritual Gifts that he gave men when he asended. let's prove this out in our second set of

Scripture #2, Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams". here the apostle Peter is quoting Joel 2:28 & 29. but watch what he says in verses 32 & 33,
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. (God raised up Jesus? see John 2:18-22)
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear".
who shed forth this? the Lord Jesus. remember Peter said, "God" will pour out his, his, Spirit, correct. but it was Jesus who recieved it from the Father/Spirit and poured it out himself, correct. well lets see what the scriptures say in Joel. notice how spirit is not capitalized in Joel, (that's a wake up call). but with the capitalized "S" in Spirit, indicating God, himself the Father. now Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". did one notice the small case "s" in spirit, but was it not the Holy Spirit that was poured forth? YES. so why did God, the "LORD", all cap, indicating the Father, speaking in Joel say his "spirit"when clearly John 4:24a say that God is a "Spirit? but notice the small case "s" in spirit, here in Joel. now go back to Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". a spirit? notice the small case "s" in spirit, is not God a Spirit according to John 4:24a? well now lets see if this is so. John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God". Lord Indicates Jesus as "a spirit", notice the small case "s" in spirit, meaning GOD in FLESH & BONES as a MAN. for Thomas declared, "My Lord and my God". why not say my LORD and my God, see the difference, or is there any difference. no he said my "Lord" and my God, indicating the Holy Spirit/God in flesh. Uh Oh the Holy Spirit in Flesh? yes, the Spirit, or the spirit that was poured out on Pentecost.

NOW, to understand this, QUESTION, "who sent the Holy Spirit?" lets see,
A. was it the one who you calls the FATHER?, John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. remember Scott by coming that's an ADVENT..... ;)

B. or was it the Son, Jesus himself who sent his, his, Spirit?. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

OK, who sent the the Holy Spirit, the COMFORTER? remember the Lord'words, John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. and one more, John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. REMEMBER Scott, a "Coming" is a ADVENT. and the Spirit came on Pentecost. with that I leave this for your edification, which sums up all that I have posted above.
2Cor 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (read that again)
2Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

until you turn/repent, the vail remains.

PICJAG.

You describe the advent/return of Jesus, why then do you argue against me, when I agree that He has come?

And since you know and say that He has come/returned already, do you also look for Him to come a third time? Or are we in agreement? Because He did not say He will come again and...and then also again a third time. He simply says, "If I go, I shall come again." meaning just once more.

 

[101G]

You describe the advent/return of Jesus, why then do you argue against me, when I agree that He has come?

And since you know and say that He has come/returned already, do you also look for Him to come a third time? Or are we in agreement? Because He did not say He will come again and...and then also again a third time. He simply says, "If I go, I shall come again." meaning just once more.

First, thanks for acknowledging that he did come on Pentecost. second, you said this also,"And since you know and say that He has come/returned already, do you also look for Him to come a third time? Or are we in agreement? ". LOOKING for him the second time, YES, in person FACE to FACE, but he MANIFESTED himself in the Spiritual Gifts on Pentecost. so Pentecost was not a SECOND "APPERANCE". this is where you fail to understand. two "APPERANCE" one "MANIFESTATION". you missed understood him on his second coming which is TWO FOLD. what do we mean by TWO FOLD RETURN. in Spirit, which we agree on that happen on Pentecost. this RETURN was in MANIFESTATION, not apperance. for our Lord's return is in the Spiritual Gifts, happen on Pentecost, this we agree. but in Glorified flesh, (an APPEARING, not in Manifestation), which is yet to happen. now we can move on to his second "APPEARANCE". supportive scripture, Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
understand Scott, on pentecost he did not "APPEAR" but MANIFESTED himself to them, (his disciples) in the Spiritual gifts. here not every eye saw this. but in his glorified state, with a body when he shout from heaven and the DEAD in him rises first, (see 1Thess 4:16). knowing this, it obliterates your notion that the Lord is already here and will not come again. well 1Thess 4:16 states that he is coming again, but this time every EYE will see this return, supportive scripture, Rev 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".

so Scott, did you see this RETURN? no, of course not, because it has not yet happen. when our Lord return, this will be the FIRST RESURRECTION. and if we missed this one then we're all all doomed. for, Rev 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years".

ok Scott, have the First Resurrection took place yet? again no. for the apostle Peter, preaching on Pentecost said this,
Acts 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day". well Scott you have a big problem, because if the second and only coming of Christ happen on Pentecost as we agreed on, then David nor you or I and the rest us made the FIRST RESURRECTION. meaning, according to Rev 20:6 the second death awaits all of us. see your ERROR now? because none of us are saved right NOW, but are sealed, with the PROMISE of Salvation. and if the salvation happen on Pentecost, then we all missed out, why? lets read Heb 9:28 again,"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation". unto SALVATION? so the scripture that apostles are then made a lie, listen,
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it".
see, hope is the FAITH we live by, for Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". so are you living by Faith waiting for the change to come? well id it happen on Pentecost then we all missed it. see your ERROR now.

Understand something Scott, our Lord's return is a three advent return. two in "APPERANCE", and one in "MANIFESTATION". understand, he came in Natural flesh with Blood, this was an "APPERANCE"/Advent, when Mary gave birth to the body he came in, Advent #1. Advent #2, in "MANIFESTATION" of his Gifts, that he gave men upon his ascension. now Advent #3, which no man knows the day, nor the hour of this Advent. this advent is when EVERY EYE will see him, RAISED, or Changed, if ALIVE at the time of this advent. so Scott has you bodily changed?

so take hope, the second....... "APPERANCE"/advent in flesh have not yet happen. but is to come. as a matter of Godly fact, and Godly time keeping. he has been only gone just a couple days, give or take a few hours. I base this on, 2Pet 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".
so, knowing that it have been about two thousand years that has left in "FLESH", that's about two days and a few hours that he been gone. so when is his third coming or advent? I don't know, for, Matt 25:13 states, "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh". now scott did the Son of man come on the day of Pentecost? or are you saying that the Son of man is the Holy Ghost? ........ now that's intresting.

so by scriptures, your assessment of two advent has been reprove ......... by scriptures he have two Parousia, in APPERANCE, and one NOT in PERSON, but in Manifestation, hence three advents.

PICJAG

 

[Naomi25]

Unfortunately, you are wrong because you are breaking the single most important principle:

John 3:6
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."​

You point to the flesh, because it is born of you. But what is born of God...is spirit.

Isn't that just a little bit gnostic? And I would have thought the "single most important principle" was all of God's word...not just cherry picking bits that seem to say what you'd like it too.
Look, God made mankind as spirit AND body. When we become Christians we receive a new heart, we become regenerated. The bible tells us that we have become alive in Christ; received new life in him. But we still clearly live within a fallen 'flesh' body. However, the goal is not to shed this flesh body and just become pure spirit, as God is spirit. 1 Cor 15:35-49 tells us that at the resurrection our bodies will be transformed. We shall be like Christ, like his new body. Which, while described as 'spiritual', was indeed a physical body. It was not 'a ghost', it touched, ate, interacted. Thus we may expect the same thing. And 1 Cor 15 lets us know that this hope is something we can look forward to at his coming (v23), at the resurrection. Romans 8:23-24 also tells us that this 'hope' of our new bodies is what we look forward to; the redemption of both bodies and the earth as well.
In short? Yes, there most certainly is a spiritual element to our salvation, and we experience that now in the 'already'...but the bible is replete with promises of the 'not yet'...the time when these frail, sinful bodies will be made like Christ's, fit to live into eternity with him.

 

[Naomi25]

There is no such promise.

You have added "physically." It's not there in the scriptures. You are reading into it what the flesh desires.

Well, I suppose that depends. If you are hanging your entire argument on the fact that the word 'physically' doesn't appear, then congratulations, you have won. The evident problem in that is; a person doesn't have to USE a particular word to still very clearly explain something. Language is sort of niffty like that.


and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” -Acts 1:11

and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. -2 Thessalonians 1:7–10

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. -Revelation 1:7

Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. -Matthew 24:42–44

so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, -1 Corinthians 1:7

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. -Philippians 3:20–21

waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, -Titus 2:13



I could use more verses, but I believe these are enough. In them we see these things: as Christ left, so he shall return; he left physically....when he comes, he will also comes with angels in flaming fire inflicting vengeance on those unsaved. It is described as 'a day'. We are told that when he comes 'every eye' will see him and all the tribes on earth will 'wail' on account of it. We are told we cannot know when 'that day' will be. That we must 'wait' for this 'revealing' and 'appearing' of his from heaven. That it is indeed from heaven he will come, where he will transform our bodies to be like his.

None of this makes a lick of sense if we say that Christ only promises to return to us in spirit.
Also....if Christ only promises to return to his people in spirit.....explain to me why the disciples kept telling the church that they had to wait for some 'unknown' future date for that to happen? Why did Paul himself speak of it as something yet to happen? Did the apostle Paul, someone who Christ himself took to heaven to show him things, not 'make the cut' in terms of being spiritual enough to fit into whatever scenario you are setting up?

Sorry. None of what you are selling makes sense.

 

[ScottA]

First, thanks for acknowledging that he did come on Pentecost. second, you said this also,"And since you know and say that He has come/returned already, do you also look for Him to come a third time? Or are we in agreement? ". LOOKING for him the second time, YES, in person FACE to FACE, but he MANIFESTED himself in the Spiritual Gifts on Pentecost. so Pentecost was not a SECOND "APPERANCE". this is where you fail to understand. two "APPERANCE" one "MANIFESTATION". you missed understood him on his second coming which is TWO FOLD. what do we mean by TWO FOLD RETURN. in Spirit, which we agree on that happen on Pentecost. this RETURN was in MANIFESTATION, not apperance. for our Lord's return is in the Spiritual Gifts, happen on Pentecost, this we agree. but in Glorified flesh, (an APPEARING, not in Manifestation), which is yet to happen. now we can move on to his second "APPEARANCE". supportive scripture, Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
understand Scott, on pentecost he did not "APPEAR" but MANIFESTED himself to them, (his disciples) in the Spiritual gifts. here not every eye saw this. but in his glorified state, with a body when he shout from heaven and the DEAD in him rises first, (see 1Thess 4:16). knowing this, it obliterates your notion that the Lord is already here and will not come again. well 1Thess 4:16 states that he is coming again, but this time every EYE will see this return, supportive scripture, Rev 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".

so Scott, did you see this RETURN? no, of course not, because it has not yet happen. when our Lord return, this will be the FIRST RESURRECTION. and if we missed this one then we're all all doomed. for, Rev 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years".

ok Scott, have the First Resurrection took place yet? again no. for the apostle Peter, preaching on Pentecost said this,
Acts 2:29 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day". well Scott you have a big problem, because if the second and only coming of Christ happen on Pentecost as we agreed on, then David nor you or I and the rest us made the FIRST RESURRECTION. meaning, according to Rev 20:6 the second death awaits all of us. see your ERROR now? because none of us are saved right NOW, but are sealed, with the PROMISE of Salvation. and if the salvation happen on Pentecost, then we all missed out, why? lets read Heb 9:28 again,"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation". unto SALVATION? so the scripture that apostles are then made a lie, listen,
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it".
see, hope is the FAITH we live by, for Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". so are you living by Faith waiting for the change to come? well id it happen on Pentecost then we all missed it. see your ERROR now.

Understand something Scott, our Lord's return is a three advent return. two in "APPERANCE", and one in "MANIFESTATION". understand, he came in Natural flesh with Blood, this was an "APPERANCE"/Advent, when Mary gave birth to the body he came in, Advent #1. Advent #2, in "MANIFESTATION" of his Gifts, that he gave men upon his ascension. now Advent #3, which no man knows the day, nor the hour of this Advent. this advent is when EVERY EYE will see him, RAISED, or Changed, if ALIVE at the time of this advent. so Scott has you bodily changed?

so take hope, the second....... "APPERANCE"/advent in flesh have not yet happen. but is to come. as a matter of Godly fact, and Godly time keeping. he has been only gone just a couple days, give or take a few hours. I base this on, 2Pet 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day".
so, knowing that it have been about two thousand years that has left in "FLESH", that's about two days and a few hours that he been gone. so when is his third coming or advent? I don't know, for, Matt 25:13 states, "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh". now scott did the Son of man come on the day of Pentecost? or are you saying that the Son of man is the Holy Ghost? ........ now that's intresting.

so by scriptures, your assessment of two advent has been reprove ......... by scriptures he have two Parousia, in APPERANCE, and one NOT in PERSON, but in Manifestation, hence three advents.

PICJAG

Well, you go on and on viewing things through a worldly lens as if the elements that make up the corrupt body of sin will be glorified, as if the glory of the Father is in the flesh and not only spiritual, and as if these fleshly eyes must see what they will not. But none of that is true, that is the thinking of men. John says differently, that we see Him when we see Him "as He is", which having gone to the Father whom is spirit, is only spirit. Therefore, Jesus said, "the world sees me no more, but you will see me", and this He confirms saying, that we, like Him, become One in spirit with the Father--having no flesh at all, but "perfect" being only spirit also.

So, yes, Jesus came/returned at Pentecost, then also to "each in his own order" just as Paul stated. But those who look for Him in the world will not see Him until the end in the judgement where it is that every eye shall see and every knee bow.

If this is not convincing to you, then we can let it rest, either until such a time that you are willing and able to drop the fleshly bondage and completely embrace the spirit kingdom of God, or in the end: "each in his own order."

 

[Naomi25]

Yes, that is what I am saying...as do the scriptures, as John was also saying. He spoke of when Jesus comes in the glory of the Father--whom is not flesh, but spirit. Which is the second and final advent.

But you apparently have not reconciled the fact that Jesus laid down His physical body in sacrifice and death, rose up physically, but only committed His spirit to the Father, and only ascended spiritually...and that we who are His are now His physical body, we who in following in like manner will or have already died to the flesh that we may be alive to God (whom is spirit) as One.

Meanwhile many remain with their minds set upon the things of the flesh. Romans 8:5-6

Oh boy. You are further gone over the horizon than I thought. In other words...there's probably little point in trying to reason with you, is there?

Two questions before I go: where in scripture does it tell you that Jesus forsook his risen physical body as he ascended to his Father? I think you've popped a great big assumption in there.
Second: If you're so spiritual...do you see Jesus? Do you dwell in a body perfected from sin, death and corruption? Do you dwell in an earth that is free of those things as well? What about the people around you? Is ALL sin, death and corruption gone and therefore does not affect you? Because unless all that is gone, not only are you reading scripture wrong, you've actually missed huge chunks of it.

 

[ScottA]

Isn't that just a little bit gnostic? And I would have thought the "single most important principle" was all of God's word...not just cherry picking bits that seem to say what you'd like it too.
Look, God made mankind as spirit AND body. When we become Christians we receive a new heart, we become regenerated. The bible tells us that we have become alive in Christ; received new life in him. But we still clearly live within a fallen 'flesh' body. However, the goal is not to shed this flesh body and just become pure spirit, as God is spirit. 1 Cor 15:35-49 tells us that at the resurrection our bodies will be transformed. We shall be like Christ, like his new body. Which, while described as 'spiritual', was indeed a physical body. It was not 'a ghost', it touched, ate, interacted. Thus we may expect the same thing. And 1 Cor 15 lets us know that this hope is something we can look forward to at his coming (v23), at the resurrection. Romans 8:23-24 also tells us that this 'hope' of our new bodies is what we look forward to; the redemption of both bodies and the earth as well.
In short? Yes, there most certainly is a spiritual element to our salvation, and we experience that now in the 'already'...but the bible is replete with promises of the 'not yet'...the time when these frail, sinful bodies will be made like Christ's, fit to live into eternity with him.

No...not a little bit gnostic...but all God, whom is all spirit.

And, no, God may have made man as spirit and body, but we are not perfect as God is perfect until we are like Him...which is only spirit. Manifesting us in the flesh was not unto glory, but unto fire...from which only the spirit survives, whether good or evil unto judgement.

Nothing of flesh and blood or this physical world inherits the kingdom of God.

 

[ScottA]

Well, I suppose that depends. If you are hanging your entire argument on the fact that the word 'physically' doesn't appear, then congratulations, you have won. The evident problem in that is; a person doesn't have to USE a particular word to still very clearly explain something. Language is sort of niffty like that.


and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.” -Acts 1:11

and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. -2 Thessalonians 1:7–10

Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen. -Revelation 1:7

Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. -Matthew 24:42–44

so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, -1 Corinthians 1:7

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself. -Philippians 3:20–21

waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, -Titus 2:13



I could use more verses, but I believe these are enough. In them we see these things: as Christ left, so he shall return; he left physically....when he comes, he will also comes with angels in flaming fire inflicting vengeance on those unsaved. It is described as 'a day'. We are told that when he comes 'every eye' will see him and all the tribes on earth will 'wail' on account of it. We are told we cannot know when 'that day' will be. That we must 'wait' for this 'revealing' and 'appearing' of his from heaven. That it is indeed from heaven he will come, where he will transform our bodies to be like his.

None of this makes a lick of sense if we say that Christ only promises to return to us in spirit.
Also....if Christ only promises to return to his people in spirit.....explain to me why the disciples kept telling the church that they had to wait for some 'unknown' future date for that to happen? Why did Paul himself speak of it as something yet to happen? Did the apostle Paul, someone who Christ himself took to heaven to show him things, not 'make the cut' in terms of being spiritual enough to fit into whatever scenario you are setting up?

Sorry. None of what you are selling makes sense.

Language is not nifty, it is "confounded" by God--for a purpose.

Nonetheless, you go on and on in futility, while the end of the matter is that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." None of what you have stated changes that, and the scriptures you quote establish it.

 

[Naomi25]

No...not a little bit gnostic...but all God, whom is all spirit.

And, no, God may have made man as spirit and body, but we are not perfect as God is perfect until we are like Him...which is only spirit. Manifesting us in the flesh was not unto glory, but unto fire...from which only the spirit survives, whether good or evil unto judgement.

Nothing of flesh and blood or this physical world inherits the kingdom of God.

So...what you're saying is that God's plan for us in the beginning...body and soul...was fundamentally flawed and now he just wants us to be spirits. You DO know there's teaching against this sort of stuff in the bible, right?

 

[Naomi25]

Language is not nifty, it is "confounded" by God--for a purpose.

Nonetheless, you go on and on in futility, while the end of the matter is that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." None of what you have stated changes that, and the scriptures you quote establish it.

And yet, you seemed to have very neatly dodged the questions at the end of my post. The questions that, unless answered properly, completely invalidate your ideas. Have a go at that, yeah?

 

[ScottA]

Oh boy. You are further gone over the horizon than I thought. In other words...there's probably little point in trying to reason with you, is there?

Two questions before I go: where in scripture does it tell you that Jesus forsook his risen physical body as he ascended to his Father? I think you've popped a great big assumption in there.
Second: If you're so spiritual...do you see Jesus? Do you dwell in a body perfected from sin, death and corruption? Do you dwell in an earth that is free of those things as well? What about the people around you? Is ALL sin, death and corruption gone and therefore does not affect you? Because unless all that is gone, not only are you reading scripture wrong, you've actually missed huge chunks of it.

We all go over the horizon, "some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt."

1. There are many contributing passages, but the end is this:

Luke 23:46
"And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ”

Colossians 1:24
"I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,"​

2. If you ask if a dead man with his eyes of flesh, sees Jesus who has become the perfection and glory of our God whom is spirit...the answer is: No. On the other hand, if you ask a new man born only of the spirit of God if he sees Jesus...the answer is not only Yes, but he also sees with Jesus, and as Jesus, and also as the Father. For such a one sees Him "as He is."

As for the body...what body, flesh or spirit, condemned or risen from the dead? The flesh returns to the dust, and the spirit to God who gave it. This is what is written.

As for the world around...Paul explained that for "those who are alive and remain" (in Christ, in the world), "to live (in this fallen and corrupt world) is Christ."

 

[Naomi25]

We all go over the horizon, "some to everlasting life, to shame and everlasting contempt."

Ah...again with an out of context verse. Although, I do find it funny that you quote a verse that speaks directly about the resurrection.
Me, I prefer NOT to head over the horizon, but remain grounded in the word.

Ephesians 3:17 - so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

1. There are many contributing passages, but the end is this:

Luke 23:46
"And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’ ”

Colossians 1:24
"I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church,"​

I'd ask if you were joking, but unfortunately I know you're not. When Christ 'committed his spirit' into God's hands when he died, it does not prove he did not resurrect in a physical body. In fact, we know he did. Because, well, you know...his body went missing, and then he showed up in it. All that verse tells us is that when Jesus died his spirit...that thing which we all have, he entrusted to his Father. Which should not shock us at all.
And Colossians? Are you seriously trying to say that because Paul uses the analogy of the Church being the body of Christ, that he himself does not have a physical body? Because if you take that verse as you're trying to, it actually means that Christ actually is only a physical floating head. Nice try.

2. If you ask if a dead man with his eyes of flesh, sees Jesus who has become the perfection and glory of our God whom is spirit...the answer is: No. On the other hand, if you ask a new man born only of the spirit of God if he sees Jesus...the answer is not only Yes, but he also sees with Jesus, and as Jesus, and also as the Father. For such a one sees Him "as He is."

So. You're so spiritually in tune, you are God. Gottcha.
Of course, that still doesn't answer the questions about the state of sin in the world, people and even in yourself. I do believe you're still headed for death. That sort of puts a kink in it all. The curse still exists. The promise of Christ is that one day it will not. You propose that you exist in a state where you have elevated yourself above it. How nice for you. But a head in the clouds does not explain away everything even you must see on the nightly news.

As for the body...what body, flesh or spirit, condemned or risen from the dead? The flesh returns to the dust, and the spirit to God who gave it. This is what is written.

As for the world around...Paul explained that for "those who are alive and remain" (in Christ, in the world), "to live (in this fallen and corrupt world) is Christ."

That all sounds so spiritual. Very nice. But...it's got nothing to do with what the bible actually says. And as long as you dance around the verses I've posted and the quite reasonable, and rational questions I've asked about them, I'm hardly going to take this conversation seriously. Sorry.

 

[101G]

Well, you go on and on viewing things through a worldly lens as if the elements that make up the corrupt body of sin will be glorified, as if the glory of the Father is in the flesh and not only spiritual, and as if these fleshly eyes must see what they will not. But none of that is true, that is the thinking of men. John says differently, that we see Him when we see Him "as He is", which having gone to the Father whom is spirit, is only spirit. Therefore, Jesus said, "the world sees me no more, but you will see me", and this He confirms saying, that we, like Him, become One in spirit with the Father--having no flesh at all, but "perfect" being only spirit also.

So, yes, Jesus came/returned at Pentecost, then also to "each in his own order" just as Paul stated. But those who look for Him in the world will not see Him until the end in the judgement where it is that every eye shall see and every knee bow.

If this is not convincing to you, then we can let it rest, either until such a time that you are willing and able to drop the fleshly bondage and completely embrace the spirit kingdom of God, or in the end: "each in his own order."

so we can take this as you have no scriptures to support your belife.
well then, you said, "But none of that is true, that is the thinking of men". but you have no scriptures to prove what we say is not true. so I agree we need not to argue, I say just consider what I have posted.

PICJAG

 

[ScottA]

So...what you're saying is that God's plan for us in the beginning...body and soul...was fundamentally flawed and now he just wants us to be spirits. You DO know there's teaching against this sort of stuff in the bible, right?

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that God manifest us in the way we were flawed, in order to save us from ourselves and certain destruction, to feel the weight of our loss and to rescue us if we would be rescued, and if not that we and evil would be destroyed forever.

There is nothing in the bible against these truths, but for it.

 

[ScottA]

Also....if Christ only promises to return to his people in spirit.....explain to me why the disciples kept telling the church that they had to wait for some 'unknown' future date for that to happen? Why did Paul himself speak of it as something yet to happen? Did the apostle Paul, someone who Christ himself took to heaven to show him things, not 'make the cut' in terms of being spiritual enough to fit into whatever scenario you are setting up?

And yet, you seemed to have very neatly dodged the questions at the end of my post. The questions that, unless answered properly, completely invalidate your ideas. Have a go at that, yeah?

This is like Jesus asking the multitudes what they went out to see in going into the wilderness to see John the Baptist. In other words...what did you expect, that God being spirit would create a race of inferior beings? No, He created us to reveal our faults and our need for His spiritual perfection--that we should be prefect as He is perfect.

But also, the disciples were on the cusp of the end of the house of Israel who died in their sins, and also on the beginning of the times of the gentiles who would be invited into the fold after "It is finished." They did not preach flesh to flesh, but spirit to flesh that they/we might hear and be saved. As Jesus clearly stated, "The world sees Me no more." Thus, only those born of the spirit of God--which was not preached to or for Israel, but to and for the gentiles--would be all that would be saved during these times, for the end of the flesh died with Christ on the cross. And yet we are many generations, and therefore a type of blindness came upon Israel and also upon the gentiles, that the message of salvation and the time of the end would be consistent over these many generations until the end. Thus, what is born of the flesh is flesh and is destroyed, and what is born of the spirit of God is spirit and saved.

But it would be a shame, if in your spirit you did not hear the spirit, but heard only those things of the spirit as if they were for the flesh. That was never the case. But rather: "He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches."

I have told you the truth.

 

[ScottA]

Ah...again with an out of context verse. Although, I do find it funny that you quote a verse that speaks directly about the resurrection.
Me, I prefer NOT to head over the horizon, but remain grounded in the word.

Ephesians 3:17 - so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

This, holding onto the horizons of this world, is worthy of its own response:

Luke 9:25
"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?"

 

[101G]

What I am saying is that God manifest us in the way we were flawed

sorry, cain't buy that. our manifestation is his IMAGE. and in his image is to be given eternal life. yes man corrupted his IMAGE, for, and listen good, Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope. man was not made vanity, but was SUBJECT to it, meaning he had a choice. it is God responsibility to RESTORE what became Corrupted. that's why, 1Cor 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality". so it was not God making us flawed, but RESTORING his IMAGE.... MAN to his original state. so Man was not made flawed, but was made "innocent" in perfection. it was his/man choice to live or die, God chose life for us. and when man died, God had a plan of restoration or what we call salvation to restore LIFE to man, for God so loved the World that he gave HIMSEL/his only begotten son, that whosoever believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
so man was not made flawed by God, in any manifestation, but it was us who chosed to be corrupt. for in the day that you eat, you shall die. no one forced man to eat. it was man choice. but if man sin, God fore knowledge had a plan ready just for this.

now if you have another scripture or scriptures to support your belief please post it.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

I'd ask if you were joking, but unfortunately I know you're not. When Christ 'committed his spirit' into God's hands when he died, it does not prove he did not resurrect in a physical body.

Again, a need for a specific response:

Your "proof" will come in the end.

Meanwhile, the truth of which I repeated to you was shown and written, and it stands: Only Jesus' spirit went to the Father...just as He said.

I'd ask if you were joking, but unfortunately I know you're not. When Christ 'committed his spirit' into God's hands when he died, it does not prove he did not resurrect in a physical body. In fact, we know he did. Because, well, you know...his body went missing, and then he showed up in it. All that verse tells us is that when Jesus died his spirit...that thing which we all have, he entrusted to his Father. Which should not shock us at all.
And Colossians? Are you seriously trying to say that because Paul uses the analogy of the Church being the body of Christ, that he himself does not have a physical body? Because if you take that verse as you're trying to, it actually means that Christ actually is only a physical floating head. Nice try.

Continuing on...

No, you "know" nothing of the sort. That is not what it says.

And, no, His body did not "go missing"...His body is the church. These things are all written, and I have repeated them to you--apparently you are not paying attention.

As for Colossians...you are being silly. You are not tracking with all that is written.

What is written in allegory is the church is the body of Christ which becomes the temple of God as living [spiritual] stones.

You have lots to catch up on--you have missed a lot of important information.

 

[101G]

Scott I have a question, if Jesus, the spirit, only went to the Father, where is his Body that he rose up? just a simple question.

PICJAG.