This Makes More Sense To Me Now

[ScottA]

But "the time of the dead, that they should be judged" has not yet arrived until the second coming.

You are not even hearing yourself, let alone hearing what is written. You are as much as saying that no one has died since the time of Adam, nor will until the second coming of Christ.

Nonetheless, the scriptures say that the wages of sin is death, and that it began with Adam...way back then.

 

[ScottA]

Of course I understand the very clear and plain scripture in Revelation 11:15-18

Scott at every turn your bend and twist the literal interpretation of scripture, and change it into some metaphysical allegory, thats way out in left field, out of the ball park "Gone"!

Jesus Is The Lord

No, but the scriptures and all language was confused (twisted) by God at Babel, and I untwist them by the spirit of God changing nothing.

Do you deny that the wages of sin is death and that Adam died--beginning the time of death?

 

[WPM]

You are not even hearing yourself, let alone hearing what is written. You are as much as saying that no one has died since the time of Adam, nor will until the second coming of Christ.

Nonetheless, the scriptures say that the wages of sin is death, and that it began with Adam...way back then.

Read the text: "the time of the dead, that they should be judged." This is talking about judgment day.

 

[ScottA]

Your claim is false, the end never comes upon the righteous, they are children of the "Living" who never die

Revelation 11:15-18 is speaking of a future literal event that will see the last day judgemebt of all that have lived

You are mixing "the End" with "the end" (and blaming me for your confusion).

In reality, Jesus is "the End" regarding the death sentence of the living, and "the end" is the end of this "time, times, and half a time."​

 

[ScottA]

Read the text: "the time of the dead, that they should be judged." This is talking about judgment day.

Yes.

 

[WPM]

Yes.

That was my simple point!

 

[ScottA]

That was my simple point!

Okay...but you did so in the middle of me correcting another who was arguing that the judgement of death had not yet begun, when it is written that it began when Adam died.

Many believe--literally everyone since the scriptures were given except the prophets--has believed that judgement is being held off until the end of the world, rather than the end of time...which the scriptures do not say. Which error in belief was not to be revealed until these times of our being lead unto all truth by the spirit of Truth.

Time to "press on."

 

[Truth7t7]

No, but the scriptures and all language was confused (twisted) by God at Babel, and I untwist them by the spirit of God changing nothing.

Do you deny that the wages of sin is death and that Adam died--beginning the time of death?

Scott do you believe in a future, literal, return of Jesus Christ in judgement at his appearing as seen below?

Or is this metaphorical symbolism seen below?

2 Timothy 4:1KJV
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Timtofly]

No, history has changed because mankind has "a different perspective."

But I have not stated my "imagination", but the fact of what is actually written, yet not considered as it was written. The fact is trees and grasses have burned since the beginning--which are the stated terms of the passage.

If you claim the Trumpets have already sounded, you have changed history to fit your imagined claim.

 

[ScottA]

Scott do you believe in a future, literal, return of Jesus Christ in judgement at his appearing as seen below?

Or is this metaphorical symbolism seen below?

2 Timothy 4:1KJV
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Revelation 20:11-15KJV
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The key, and the part you have not understood, is in (as you say) "as seen below."

It is exactly as seen in those passages...except you have not understood or you would not say "future." That is the position of all who look forward to what they have not yet come to. Nonetheless, the scriptures also say that all come before God, at which time it is no longer future but present and eternal.

Why do you not believe that Christ has come even to the dead who have passed and therefore must be present with Him, just as it is written?

 

[ScottA]

If you claim the Trumpets have already sounded, you have changed history to fit your imagined claim.

No, I have "imagined" nothing. But if you believe that trees and grasses did not begin to burn in the beginning and are therefore not included in the trumpets passage declaration, you are in denial.

 

[Truth7t7]

The key, and the part you have not understood, is in (as you say) "as seen below."

It is exactly as seen in those passages...except you have not understood or you would not say "future." That is the position of all who look forward to what they have not yet come to. Nonetheless, the scriptures also say that all come before God, at which time it is no longer future but present and eternal.

Why do you not believe that Christ has come even to the dead who have passed and therefore must be present with Him, just as it is written?

I will take your response in diversion of my direct question as you don't believe in a "Future" final judgment of all at the second coming

 

[The Light]

That's more or less correct. The "First Resurrection" (which is the resurrection of the saints or the just) resembles a Hebrew harvest:

FIRSTFRUITS -- the resurrection of Christ
THE MAIN HARVEST -- the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church
THE GLEANINGS -- the resurrection of the Tribulation saints

The 144,000 do not die, are not martyred, and are not killed. They are simply raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation.

The 144,000 are of the 12 tribes and are first fruits, during the tribulation. The harvest will be at the end of the tribulation at the 6th seal BEFORE the wrath of God.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's more or less correct. The "First Resurrection" (which is the resurrection of the saints or the just) resembles a Hebrew harvest:

FIRSTFRUITS -- the resurrection of Christ
THE MAIN HARVEST -- the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church
THE GLEANINGS -- the resurrection of the Tribulation saints

The 144,000 do not die, are not martyred, and are not killed. They are simply raptured to Heaven before the Tribulation.

There are (Two) resurrections on the (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Timtofly]

No, I have "imagined" nothing. But if you believe that trees and grasses did not begin to burn in the beginning and are therefore not included in the trumpets passage declaration, you are in denial.

So then in this scenario Jesus never physically came to earth ever? There was no physical birth, Cross, nor resurrection. It all unfolded over time from the beginning and there was never a definite, specific, event for anything we read in the Bible.

I don't deny people's imaginations. But you seem to deny reality itself. These events mentioned are about specific times, not some vague however long existence we deem creation in out minds.

 

[ScottA]

So then in this scenario Jesus never physically came to earth ever? There was no physical birth, Cross, nor resurrection. It all unfolded over time from the beginning and there was never a definite, specific, event for anything we read in the Bible.

I don't deny people's imaginations. But you seem to deny reality itself. These events mentioned are about specific times, not some vague however long existence we deem creation in out minds.

Imagine then that Paul counselled the renewing of our mind--because our thinking is otherwise upside down and backwards, and wrong.

If I then speak and represent that new and right way of thinking among those who have held to reality being of the terms of this world and not rather of the kingdom which is not of this world, this is your response? To claim the things of this world as reality? That was naturally Peter's response also when he thought that Jesus should not be killed. That nature, however, is not reality.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I’m glad I slogged through the thread

Just finished mine too...WHEW!

The thing that most worries and frets me is that so many of my brothers have a rigid insistence (as concerns prophecy) that they have it all right and their brothers have it all wrong. It is a rigidness that i don’t think God can work with to give a man further revelation and understanding. How does God give more understanding to a man who thinks he knows it all?

Sure hope He as some for me as I am FAR from being a "prophecy expert"

after 16 years, let go of the first resurrection being pretrib. Partway into this very thread was when it happened.
I do know we will be judged harder.

After Many years I finally "took time off" for 18 months, to see IF I actually
had The Truth, and ALL The Scriptures about "pre-trib" rapture:

Brief outline (hopefully "decently and in order" [1Co 14:40]?):

(1) am I using The Right Bible?
(2) am I obeying God's Excellent "study" Rules!?*

(3a) God's WORD Of Truth, Rightly Divided! - "Brief" Introduction...*
(3b) THREE "Ages" Rightly Divided! = God's TIMELINES?
(4) Which "Gospel!" Makes Way For Which "Gospel"?

(5) GREAT Tribulation? Or tribulations/GREAT GRACE Departure!
(6) Pre-TOJT GRACE Departure "Expectations!"?

(7) God's HEAVENLY UPlook For HIS Body!?
(8) Watching, Waiting, And Looking for WHOM! or, "signs"?

(9) He "who withholdeth/hindereth" Until "taken Out!?"
(10) "Day Of CHRIST!" Rightly Divided from {RDf}:

- "The Day Of The LORD"?​

(11) CONFIDENCE in death/resurrection!, OR, in living/glorification!?
(12) CHRIST Will RETURN "Without Warning!"?

(13)The TWO "Trumps" Of God!, In HIS "Age Of GRACE!!"?
(14) Meeting HIM "In The Air!" to Heaven!!* vs U-turn (theology?)

- Back To earth?​

(15) Preparation For Judgment!?
(16) Post Departure "Deception! Question"?

Conclusion (2 parts):

(Part 17) Conclusion to God's Great GRACE Departure!

(Mystery resurrection)​

Let me know IF any of parts 1-16 May be of interest to you?...
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Grace, Peace, And JOY!

Also, from other Bible teachers, IF you wish:


PDF 'link' IF you wish:
The Rapture Mystery Revealed Through The Apostle Paul
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Or:

Will The Body Of Christ go through The Tribulation?
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Enjoy God's Word Of Truth!!