This Makes More Sense To Me Now

[Charlie24]

The First Resurrection, On The Last Day Explained

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

That is incorrect Truth! The first and second resurrections are separated by 1000 years. The first resurrection is not recorded in the book of Revelation, the reason is that it has already taken place before the seals are taken out of the right hand of the One who sits on the Throne, by the Slain Lamb.

 

[Truth7t7]

Good morning, Truth! I see we agree on something here.

But I don't believe it will last very long, lol.

Scripture teaches they lay dead in Jerusalems street for 3.5 days as the world watches in celebration, then God calls them to heaven

 

[Truth7t7]

That is incorrect Truth! The first and second resurrections are separated by 1000 years. The first resurrection is not recorded in the book of Revelation, the reason is that it has already taken place before the seals are taken out of the right hand of the One who sits on the Throne, by the Slain Lamb.

We Disagree, there is one future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place on the last day at the second coming of Jesus Christ in final judgment (The End)

Charlie your claim there is1,000 years between resurrection isn't found in scripture

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Charlie24]

IF you suspect, as I do, that the gathering together comes before the tribulation and the wrath of God, you have to do something with the souls under the altar because it specifically says they were beheaded and came from out of the great tribulation, which would be them dying AFTER that first resurrection. If you suspect otherwise and think all must go through the tribulation and wrath, you don’t have that problem.

I can keep answering these questions, but we are just going around in circles. I'm not complaining, but I want you to see the frustration involved in this.

Last night I was about to cover the resurrections for us to see how this works, then comes a flood of questions and I could never get to it. If I don't explain this, we will continue in circles and nothing is accomplished.

I understand that questions will come on such a hot topic! But someone has to lay this out to it's conclusion or we are getting nowhere. It's no one's fault it's just the nature of online communication.

I just don't see how I can get to what I want to lay out with this bombardment. Do you see my problem with this?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I get what you think on it, my mind just doesn’t work that way. I think it used to…at least somewhat. And I see that others around me still work that way in their minds, but I can’t remember how to do that and it’s very foreign to me now. I see it all around me but I can’t do it any more. It seems quite mad to me now. It’s like this one time when a designer wanted me to paint huge flowers on a clients wall. She brought an old tea towel that had abstracted flowers on it and she wanted me to paint, as odd as it sounds, an abstraction of that abstraction. I couldn’t do it. I literally couldn’t even begin to do what was apparently in her mind. The only way to do an abstraction of a flower (or of ANYTHING) is to start WITH the actual thing. You have to look at the ACTUAL thing in order to abstract it. Oh sheesh, that won’t make sense to you…it’s like…I see everyone around me painting abstractions and…seeming to believe their abstractions ARE the real thing. And…I used to sometimes believe their abstractions were the real thing. They convinced me of it. They were so convinced that I also became convinced. And even with much evidence that I wasn’t seeing the real thing, I kept somehow believing their abstraction was the real thing and the real thing was the abstraction. I can’t do that any more. I wouldn’t even want to try. The only reason I used to was…to be accepted by them, included by them, as they would get very angry if I wouldn’t accept their abstraction as the real thing. And I don’t know if people are getting worse or if it’s always been so prevalent but I just couldn’t see it. But I DO see it now, and it has an element to it of…oh I give up. I can’t explain it and neither can I do it any more.

Wait…maybe I have found a way to explain it…
When dealing with parables and things that are pictures and types, they are like an abstraction OF a spiritual truth. Like…God is like, or similar, to THIS, or…the kingdom of heaven is like THIS.
But when you are dealing with an actual prophecy, you are dealing with God saying what is actually going to happen and occur on earth. So you can’t say it is not actually going to happen but is just an abstraction of a spiritual thing. If you do that, it’s like saying…God doesn’t actually tell His servants what is going to happen, while God says,
24 The Lord of Heaven’s Armies has sworn this oath:

“It will all happen as I have planned.
It will be as I have decided.

So if you take what God has told us will happen and do away with it and say it will not happen exactly as He has said but means something different, you HAVE no prophecy.

 

[Charlie24]

Wait…maybe I have found a way to explain it…
When dealing with parables and things that are pictures and types, they are like an abstraction OF a spiritual truth. Like…God is like, or similar, to THIS, or…the kingdom of heaven is like THIS.
But when you are dealing with an actual prophecy, you are dealing with God saying what is actually going to happen and occur on earth. So you can’t say it is not actually going to happen but is just an abstraction of a spiritual thing. If you do that, it’s like saying…God doesn’t actually tell His servants what is going to happen, while God says,
24 The Lord of Heaven’s Armies has sworn this oath:

“It will all happen as I have planned.
It will be as I have decided.

So if you take what God has told us will happen and do away with it and say it will not happen exactly as He has said but means something different, you HAVE no prophecy.

So I take from this post that you are no longer interested in our original conversation of the how the resurrections work?

It seems that you are claiming if I do that, I'm not giving the truth of God's Word.

So there is no need for me to go any further with this!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is incorrect Truth! The first and second resurrections are separated by 1000 years. The first resurrection is not recorded in the book of Revelation, the reason is that it has already taken place before the seals are taken out of the right hand of the One who sits on the Throne, by the Slain Lamb.

I see the first and second resurrections in Revelation.
I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" [1] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15
Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16
So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17
Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18
Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe."
19
The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath.
20
They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. [2]

This is two reapings of the earth. I think it’s the two resurrections. Of course, it doesn’t say there is 1,000 years between them, but I think this is them. The first one sounds pleasant and the second one sounds terrifying.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

So I take from this post that you are no longer interested in our original conversation of the how the resurrections work?

It seems that you are claiming if I do that, I'm not giving the truth of God's Word.

So there is no need for me to go any further with this!

Im having a separate conversation with quiet thinker. Does that confuse you? You can just ignore that conversation.

 

[Truth7t7]

I see the first and second resurrections in Revelation.
I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man" [1] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15
Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe."
16
So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17
Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18
Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe."
19
The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath.
20
They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. [2]

This is two reapings of the earth. I think it’s the two resurrections. Of course, it doesn’t say there is 1,000 years between them, but I think this is them. The first one sounds pleasant and the second one sounds terrifying.

I Agree two resurrection, one to eternal life and the other to eternal damnation

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I can keep answering these questions, but we are just going around in circles. I'm not complaining, but I want you to see the frustration involved in this.

Last night I was about to cover the resurrections for us to see how this works, then comes a flood of questions and I could never get to it. If I don't explain this, we will continue in circles and nothing is accomplished.

I understand that questions will come on such a hot topic! But someone has to lay this out to it's conclusion or we are getting nowhere. It's no one's fault it's just the nature of online communication.

I just don't see how I can get to what I want to lay out with this bombardment. Do you see my problem with this?

Hmm…I don’t see the problem…I am able to have more than one conversation going without it confusing me and I’m able to ignore and not jump into side conversations if they don’t interest me.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I Agree two resurrection, one to eternal life and the other to eternal damnation

I see a little more there. I see it as not as cut and dried as that. By what I’ve seen in parables, I think not all of the second resurrection go to the lake.

 

[Charlie24]

I Agree two resurrection, one to eternal life and the other to eternal damnation

It literally took me years to take hold of what I'm want to explain here. I know from experience that the question and answer game is not going to answer anything! It just creates more argument.

This is complicated, there is a slew of Scripture reference involved, and you cannot understand it in one day, one week, or one month. It's a progression of careful Scripture study based on nothing but Scripture.

I'm not going to do the question and answer thing, it will accomplish nothing, maybe a series of frustrations that I'm not up for!

 

[Charlie24]

I see a little more there. I see it as not as cut and dried as that. By what I’ve seen in parables, I think not all of the second resurrection go to the lake.

I learned this in a classroom setting at a University, where there was a scheduled time for questions and answers.

It took the entire 4 years to place this all together with the Old and New Testaments, where it could be understood.

I have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to teach this in an online setting where there are no rules and everyone has free course. It can't be done! And I'm not going to beat my brains out trying to do the impossible.

 

[Truth7t7]

It literally took me years to take hold of what I'm want to explain here. I know from experience that the question and answer game is not going to answer anything! It just creates more argument.

This is complicated, there is a slew of Scripture reference involved, and you cannot understand it in one day, one week, or one month. It's a progression of careful Scripture study based on nothing but Scripture.

I'm not going to do the question and answer thing, it will accomplish nothing, maybe a series of frustrations that I'm not up for!

Your #1 problem is you believe and teach in a future 1,000 year kingdom on this earth that is found no place in scripture and will never take place

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Your #1 problem is you believe and teach in a future 1,000 year kingdom on this earth that is found no place in scripture and will never take place

Lol. It absolutely is found in scripture. You just don’t think the thousand years spoken of are an actual, literal 1,000 years. You may think it is an “unspecified amount of time” or a…symbol of some amount of time, or symbolic of something completely different than an amount of time, but it is definitely mentioned. You just don’t happen to think it’s prophecy that will happen exactly as written.


20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the bottomless pitand a heavy chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon—that old serpent, who is the devil, Satan—and bound him in chains for a thousand years. 3 The angel threw him into the bottomless pit, which he then shut and locked so Satan could not deceive the nations anymore until the thousand years were finished. Afterward he must be released for a little while.

4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

But I’ve just seen something I need to go and look into that I had never noted. It is a thing I must either reconcile or leave behind. I have enjoyed the conversation. Sorry we frustrated you Charlie. :)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That is incorrect Truth! The first and second resurrections are separated by 1000 years. The first resurrection is not recorded in the book of Revelation, the reason is that it has already taken place before the seals are taken out of the right hand of the One who sits on the Throne, by the Slain Lamb.

Disagree again. Rev. 11:15, is the last trumpet - #7, the rapture/1st resurrection.
Here's why. So many key events occur at this time:
* The Temple in heaven is open.
* The Mystery of God is revealed, basically who He is and what He looks like - when every eye sees Him.
*The dead are resurrected and judged.
* The kingdons of the world become our Lord's.
* We receive rewards!
* Lots of praise and worship
*Time of judgment
* Bowls of wrath are released (the series of events that I do happens chronologically)

I think of Revelation this way: It is not ALL chronogical and therefore shows us different vantage points, events that overlap and accumulate. God can't show us things happening simultaneously and so shows us one at a time. I look at it like a transparent three dimensional sphere filled with events, Trumpets and Bowls within the Seals. As you turn the sphere, you see different events line up and overlap. For instance, the 144k is seen in chapter 7 & 14, not different time periods, just different vantage points. I see a worldwide earthquake happening with the 6th Seal, Rev. 6:12, that looks like the same one in Rev. 16:18. I see the rapture/resurrection at the 7th Trumpet which is also the multitude that no one could number shown in Rev. 7:9 that just came out of the Great Tribulation.
I think this is why there is so many views and confusion, it can't be read in a linear time frame, one event happening after another.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh my gosh, yes, I have to leave behind what I have thought for the last 16 years…I saw something I had not fully noted.
A pretrib rapture would be the first resurrection and yet it states the first resurrection includes those who didn’t take the mark of the beast. It cannot fit. I will have to look to midtrib, which I never really looked into, and see if it fits. Wow…

I can still see a firstfruits including the many of their dead they saw walking around but I can no longer see a pretrib gathering as a main harvest/first resurrection because of the verses about “this is the first resurrection” including those who didn’t take the mark.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well if that's the case, pray for me, I need all the help I can get.

ya, me too lol

 

[ScottA]

Oh my gosh, yes, I have to leave behind what I have thought for the last 16 years…I saw something I had not fully noted.
A pretrib rapture would be the first resurrection and yet it states the first resurrection includes those who didn’t take the mark of the beast. It cannot fit. I will have to look to midtrib, which I never really looked into, and see if it fits. Wow…

I can still see a firstfruits including the many of their dead they saw walking around but I can no longer see a pretrib gathering as a main harvest/first resurrection because of the verses about “this is the first resurrection” including those who didn’t take the mark.

Be careful, there is a lot of speculation and conjecture going on here.

Paul spoke of the first and second resurrections when he said, "And the dead in Christ will rise first." Which Jesus stated would come as, "So the last will be first, and the first last." Which is to say, the first resurrection is Israel who died in their sins before salvation had come, and the second resurrection Paul referred to as "we who are alive and remain", who are "the living in Christ" having been born again of the spirit of God which is eternal life, of whom Christ was firstfruits. Thus the first to leave the world are "the dead in Christ", but the first to receive eternal life are "the living in Christ" who were and are born again after salvation had come.

Paul then explains the timing of each as, "but each one in his own order." That is--each person in his own order, which is to say, in his own life or death.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Sorry Scott, as usual I just can’t understand what you say. I literally never understand you. It’s not for lack of trying.