They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[rwb]

I do at least agree with this part anyway.

You say you agree that none shall be bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible before a hour coming when the last trumpet sounds. So why do you not address how the martyred saints will physically live again for one thousand years? Unless you can biblically explain, you're simply talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[rwb]

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see [horáō] the kingdom of God." John 3:3.

[Strongs Greek] 03708 ὁράω horáō, hor-ah'-o
properly, to stare at (compare 3700), i.e. (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally);
by extension, to attend to; by Hebraism, to experience; passively, to appear:--behold, perceive, see, take heed.

It cannot mean the ability to see with physical sight. It means to be able to have knowledge of. We know this is true because Christ tells us the Kingdom of God does NOT come with observation, nor should we say look here, or there for the Kingdom of God because the Kingdom of God is within you. Premillennialists, like the Pharisees of Old are looking for a physical Kingdom of God on this earth, clearly looking for that which shall not come.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1492. εἴδω eido (eídō)

εἴδω eídō, i'-do

a primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent G3700 and G3708; properly, to see (literally or figuratively); by implication, (in the perfect tense only) to know:—be aware, behold, × can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken [phthánō] you.

At one point the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, so he answered,

At His coming, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God, and to prove the Kingdom of God has come He cast out devils by the Spirit of God.

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
5348. φθάνω phthano (phthánō)

φθάνω phthánō, fthan'-o

apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, i.e. anticipate or precede; by extension, to have arrived at:—(already) attain, come, prevent.

The Kingdom of God is as visible today as it was when Christ was walking among them - but only those with eyes to see, could see it. The rest were blinded (as is the case today), and so the Kingdom of God remained just as invisible to them as it does to all unbelievers today.

No man can know or enter the Kingdom of God until/unless they are born again of the Holy Spirit. It has NOTHING to do with physical sight and has everything to do with new birth through the Spirit, giving new life to our spirit that before was dead in trespasses and sins. Which is why Christ says, "Ye must be born again." Notice Christ does not say you must be physically resurrected after you physically die to know and enter the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Zao is life]

It cannot mean the ability to see with physical sight. It means to be able to have knowledge of. We know this is true because Christ tells us the Kingdom of God does NOT come with observation, nor should we say look here, or there for the Kingdom of God because the Kingdom of God is within you. Premillennialists, like the Pharisees of Old are looking for a physical Kingdom of God on this earth, clearly looking for that which shall not come.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1492. εἴδω eido (eídō)

εἴδω eídō, i'-do

a primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent G3700 and G3708; properly, to see (literally or figuratively); by implication, (in the perfect tense only) to know:—be aware, behold, × can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.



At His coming, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God, and to prove the Kingdom of God has come He cast out devils by the Spirit of God.

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
5348. φθάνω phthano (phthánō)

φθάνω phthánō, fthan'-o

apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, i.e. anticipate or precede; by extension, to have arrived at:—(already) attain, come, prevent.



No man can know or enter the Kingdom of God until/unless they are born again of the Holy Spirit. It has NOTHING to do with physical sight and has everything to do with new birth through the Spirit, giving new life to our spirit that before was dead in trespasses and sins. Which is why Christ says, "Ye must be born again." Notice Christ does not say you must be physically resurrected after you physically die to know and enter the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Aaah so you finally admit now that the Kingdom of Christ is visible and observable to those with eyes to see, then (in the day He was talking to the Pharisees) and now, because those with eyes to see, perceive, but it is not visible and observable to those who are blind.

Why does it take you so long to come around to admitting what Jesus meant?

The Kingdom of God is very visible, a it was then. Only those who are blinded could not see it, just as it is today, because they cannot perceive it. Just as those who are blinded to the fact that being alive (záō) and living (záō) and eternal life (aiṓnios zōḗ) are always (without exception) talking about being alive in the human body, wherever the words come up in the New Testament in reference to the life of humans (i.e when they are not talking about the living God), and Jesus and Martha were talking about the resurrection of the body (anistemi/anastasis) and living forever in the body (záō) just before Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead.

But those who cannot perceive it and remain blinded by their own doctrine like the Pharisees were, will remain unable to see it. It remains an obtuse fact to them.​

 

[rwb]

Aaah so you finally admit now that the Kingdom of Christ is visible and observable to those with eyes to see, then (in the day He was talking to the Pharisees) and now, because those with eyes to see, perceive, but it is not visible and observable to those who are blind.

No, the Kingdom of God is not visibly seen because it is spiritual not a physical Kingdom. It can be known and entered only when man is born again. Man is not born again physically, they are born again through the Spirit of Christ, which means they have gone from being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins, to spiritually alive in the spiritual Kingdom of God. It is not known/perceived/understood to anyone who have not been born again of the Spirit of Christ. You profess to belong to the Kingdom of God, and you do not know this? Or is it that you simply cannot admit it, because that would blow away your doctrine of deception?

Why does it take you so long to come around to admitting what Jesus meant?

Once again you show how obtuse you can be!!!!

The Kingdom of God is very visible, a it was then. Only those who are blinded could not see it, just as it is today, because they cannot perceive it. Just as those who are blinded to the fact that being alive (záō) and living (záō) and eternal life (aiṓnios zōḗ) are always (without exception) talking about being alive in the human body, wherever the words come up in the New Testament in reference to the life of humans (i.e when they are not talking about the living God), and Jesus and Martha were talking about the resurrection of the body (anistemi/anastasis) and living forever in the body (záō) just before Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead.

But those who cannot perceive it and remain blinded by their own doctrine like the Pharisees were, will remain unable to see it. It remains an obtuse fact to them.

How can you have known and entered the Kingdom of God by being born again when you do not believe the Kingdom of God has come through the Spirit of Christ in you? I'm convinced you are being deliberately obtuse, because you would rather cling to doctrine of deception than to admit that you do err in doctrine being deceived or perhaps the deceiver?

But those who cannot perceive it and remain blinded by their own doctrine like the Pharisees were, will remain unable to see it. It remains an obtuse fact to them.

Are you claiming to be like the Pharisees of old?

 

[Zao is life]

No, the Kingdom of God is not visibly seen because it is spiritual not a physical Kingdom.

Sure. So according to you Jesus was invisible, the Pharisees also could not see His miracles, and those who belong to Christ and have his Spirit abiding in them are all spirits, not physical bodies that can be seen. They cannot be seen congregating together, and heard singing hymns and Christian songs, so the Kingdom of God cannot be seen because we are all invisible.

And you talk about being obtuse!! Another teapot and kettle case.

You do not discern that what Jesus meant was that the Pharisees He was talking to could not see the Kingdom of God because they could not discern the Kingdom though He was in their midst, and you cannot discern what Jesus meant because your false doctrines make you unable to discern the Word of God whenever and wherever the Word of God contradicts your own false doctrines - because you hold your own false doctrines above the Word of God, and use them to interpret scripture, instead of allowing scripture to form your doctrines, and to change your mind whenever necessary.

Then you resort to calling people names, hoping they will feel insulted by you

You do this because you regard yourself as "better informed" and those who point out the error in your false doctrine as "obtuse".

Just like the Pharisees. Pathetic.

No one can feel insulted by a black teapot though.

Mark 13
11 And He said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But to those outside, all these things are given in parables
12 so that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted (their minds should be changed), and their sins should be forgiven them.

Your sins may be forgiven you, and you may be saved (God knows), but just like the Pharisees, you cannot perceive what Jesus meant. You think He meant that He was a Spirit who was invisible, and that His disciples are all spirits who are invisible - both when they are alone, and when they congregate together, and their singing in praise to God is inaudible, because, according to you, "It's a spiritual Kingdom that is invisible and cannot be observed".

Ridiculous. How your false doctrines lie to you!

Just like the Pharisees. Blinded and made unable to perceive or to hear because of their own false doctrines. Lack of faith in God too, in the case of the Pharisees, which mercifully and hopefully may not be an added problem or another reason for your blindness.​

 

[CadyandZoe]

It cannot mean the ability to see with physical sight. It means to be able to have knowledge of. We know this is true because Christ tells us the Kingdom of God does NOT come with observation, nor should we say look here, or there for the Kingdom of God because the Kingdom of God is within you. Premillennialists, like the Pharisees of Old are looking for a physical Kingdom of God on this earth, clearly looking for that which shall not come.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
1492. εἴδω eido (eídō)

εἴδω eídō, i'-do

a primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent G3700 and G3708; properly, to see (literally or figuratively); by implication, (in the perfect tense only) to know:—be aware, behold, × can (+ not tell), consider, (have) know(-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wish, wot.

Luke 17:20-21 (KJV) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.



At His coming, Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God, and to prove the Kingdom of God has come He cast out devils by the Spirit of God.

Matthew 12:28 (KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Strong's Greek Dictionary
5348. φθάνω phthano (phthánō)

φθάνω phthánō, fthan'-o

apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, i.e. anticipate or precede; by extension, to have arrived at:—(already) attain, come, prevent.



No man can know or enter the Kingdom of God until/unless they are born again of the Holy Spirit. It has NOTHING to do with physical sight and has everything to do with new birth through the Spirit, giving new life to our spirit that before was dead in trespasses and sins. Which is why Christ says, "Ye must be born again." Notice Christ does not say you must be physically resurrected after you physically die to know and enter the Kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 2:10-14 (KJV) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Jesus means to say that those who have been born again, will recognize the kingdom when they see it, just as Nicodemus did.

 

[rwb]

Sure. So according to you Jesus was invisible, the Pharisees also could not see His miracles, and those who belong to Christ and have his Spirit abiding in them are all spirits, not physical bodies that can be seen. They cannot be seen congregating together, and heard singing hymns and Christian songs, so the Kingdom of God cannot be seen because we are all invisible.

Could the Kingdom of God that Christ said had come be visibly seen when He walked the earth a man? NO! He and all He did while alive on the earth could be visibly seen, but the Kingdom of God is not observed with physical sight. You are preoccupied with the physical flesh of people saying they belong to Christ and are called the Church who may or may not belong to the spiritual Kingdom of God. That's why Scripture repeatedly warns us to be on guard against those who call themselves the body of Christ, but who are in fact liars and deceivers mixed in among the true people of the spiritual Kingdom of God.

If the Pharisees of Old could have visibly seen the spiritual Kingdom that Christ came to earth with, they would not have killed the Messiah they waited long for. They too, like you were looking for a physical Kingdom of God, so when Christ came in His Kingdom and they could not know or enter into the Kingdom, they rejected the Kingdom of God, just as they rejected the Son of God.

Why would we need to be warned against those who seek to do harm to Christ and His Kingdom if we could visibly see who they are? We are warned not to believe those who deny Christ and His Kingdom that has come. We cannot see the spiritual Kingdom of God with physical sight, but we can KNOW that it is, and that we have spiritually entered into the Kingdom of God when we are born again of His Spirit in us. Without the Spirit of Christ in us we cannot know or enter the spiritual Kingdom of God. Which is why I must ask, do you know and have you entered the Kingdom of God that is not visible because it is within you?

 

[RedFan]

Well, the arrival of the Kingdom of God can be inferred from what is seen -- just as Jesus' status as Messiah could be inferred from Jesus' deeds. Matt. 11:3-5.

 

[rwb]

Jesus means to say that those who have been born again, will recognize the kingdom when they see it, just as Nicodemus did.

I know what Jesus said to Nicodemus. He told Him and us that none can KNOW or ENTER the Kingdom of God until they are born again through the Spirit that is within you. It is not through being physically born again, but spiritually born from above. We do not visibly see the Spirit of Christ within, but we can know by grace through faith that He has come to us.

John 3:6-8 (KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[rwb]

Well, the arrival of the Kingdom of God can be inferred from what is seen -- just as Jesus' status as Messiah could be inferred from Jesus' deeds. Matt. 11:3-5.

Yes, we can only know and enter the Kingdom of God by grace through faith when we are born again and have Christ's Spirit within you. Just as we know Christ and His Kingdom through what we see as the fruit of the Spirit within makes known the Kingdom of God through Christ's Spirit within man upon the earth.

 

[Davidpt]

So why do you not address how the martyred saints will physically live again for one thousand years? Unless you can biblically explain, you're simply talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Ever heard of a bodily resurrection at the 2nd coming? Maybe that can explain it. How else should we think that saints who have been martyred live again, if not bodily via the resurrection of the saved during the last trump?

Amil has martyred saints living again and reigning with Christ while in a disembodied state rather than a bodily state. No wonder Premils can't get onboard with that. As if a thousand years are relevant in heaven. What happens in heaven when it's satan's little season back on earth? Do martyred saints continue to reign for a thousand years in heaven though the thousand years on earth have expired?

IOW, why would the thousand years on earth be running in parallel with time in a timeless heaven, but that satan's little season wouldn't be? How can the thousand years expire on earth but not expire in heaven as well? Thus no one is any longer reigning with Christ a thousand years anywhere. The reason being, because the thousand years have expired everywhere. And that would include timeless heaven if there even was such a thing to begin with, meaning in heaven it involving 24 hour earth cycles. No matter how you look at it, a thousand years involve 24 hour earth cycles, obviously. And so does satan's little season regardless what era of time it fits.

Amil does not add up here. How any of you think it does is beyond me? In the event Amil is the correct position regardless, what is needed then are Amils that can actually make sense of this position for the rest of us who are doubting it's the correct position.

 

[rwb]

Ever heard of a bodily resurrection at the 2nd coming? Maybe that can explain it. How else should we think that saints who have been martyred live again, if not bodily via the resurrection of the saved during the last trump?

Yes, after the second coming of Christ when the last/seventh trumpet sounds that time/delay shall be no longer. There is NO physical resurrection before an hour that is coming when the final trumpet sounds. You obviously know this, so why don't you drop the pretense of Premillennialist doctrine that teaches the physical resurrection will be followed by one thousand literal years?

Amil has martyred saints living again and reigning with Christ while in a disembodied state rather than a bodily state. No wonder Premils can't get onboard with that. As if a thousand years are relevant in heaven. What happens in heaven when it's satan's little season back on earth? Do martyred saints continue to reign for a thousand years in heaven though the thousand years on earth have expired?

I am Amillennial and I believe what John has written. These martyred saints lived and reigned with Christ in bodies of flesh on the earth during a period of TIME, symbolized a thousand years BEFORE being martyred for their faith. Even after being physically martyred, they are ALIVE in heaven, John calling them 'souls'. The only way these martyred can be called souls without physical form is through a spiritual body, of which they are. Because they cannot be 'souls' without any LIFE at all. Since their physical bodies have perished through death, the only life they can possess is spirit life that is through the Spirit of Christ within them, and the spirit returned to God ALIVE. They will not have a physical body again until an hour coming when the last/seventh trumpet sounds and their body is resurrected immortal & incorruptible for everlasting life on the new earth, once again complete living souls.

 

[Timtofly]

Which is why I must ask, do you know and have you entered the Kingdom of God that is not visible because it is within you?

Why would you think that kingdom would remain invisible after the Second Coming, though?

Jesus will still have that same physical body after 1994 years. Jesus will still reign as physical King, just the same, as being the physical Christ.

You are trying to accuse us of living in Adam's carnal flesh, and forgetting that Paul declared at the Second Coming all would leave Adam's carnal flesh for God's permanent incorruptible physical body. That physical is still physical and both on the earth, and in heaven.

The sons of God will always have a physical body as did Adam and Eve before Adam disobeyed God. Even Paul points out that physical body comes from God, and is not of human nor earthly origin. But certainly stating there is a physical body, is not being carnal minded, or do you think Paul was just being carnal minded instead of led by the Holy Spirit in 2 Corinthians 5:1?

 

[rwb]

Why would you think that kingdom would remain invisible after the Second Coming, though?

I wouldn't and have not! This is why I seldom reply to what you specifically write in these forums. You seem unable to argue against what is actually said, and instead make up lunacy and pretend it's what has been argued for or against.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I know what Jesus said to Nicodemus. He told Him and us that none can KNOW or ENTER the Kingdom of God until they are born again through the Spirit that is within you. It is not through being physically born again, but spiritually born from above. We do not visibly see the Spirit of Christ within, but we can know by grace through faith that He has come to us.

John 3:6-8 (KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The point is, since Jesus attributed Nicodemus' ability to recognize the kingdom of God to being born again, then it follows that the kingdom of God can be seen.

 

[rwb]

The point is, since Jesus attributed Nicodemus' ability to recognize the kingdom of God to being born again, then it follows that the kingdom of God can be seen.

Did Nicodemus see it? Mankind does not recognize the Kingdom of God through physical sight! We know it and have entered into the Kingdom of God through FAITH!

Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, after the second coming of Christ when the last/seventh trumpet sounds that time/delay shall be no longer. There is NO physical resurrection before an hour that is coming when the final trumpet sounds. You obviously know this, so why don't you drop the pretense of Premillennialist doctrine that teaches the physical resurrection will be followed by one thousand literal years?



I am Amillennial and I believe what John has written. These martyred saints lived and reigned with Christ in bodies of flesh on the earth during a period of TIME, symbolized a thousand years BEFORE being martyred for their faith. Even after being physically martyred, they are ALIVE in heaven, John calling them 'souls'. The only way these martyred can be called souls without physical form is through a spiritual body, of which they are. Because they cannot be 'souls' without any LIFE at all. Since their physical bodies have perished through death, the only life they can possess is spirit life that is through the Spirit of Christ within them, and the spirit returned to God ALIVE. They will not have a physical body again until an hour coming when the last/seventh trumpet sounds and their body is resurrected immortal & incorruptible for everlasting life on the new earth, once again complete living souls.

You are mixing up John's use of symbolism. The "soul" is used to identify the individual, not a corporate body of individuals, and then you change the actual text and context by declaring a corporate spiritual body. That is your interpretational error. Because "souls" is plural as in a specific group of individuals instead of one corporate spiritual body.

The point made is that these souls were beheaded after the 7th Trumpet had already sounded. A point Amil blatantly deny or try to dismiss altogether. One cannot get around these facts. You have these souls dead a thousand years before the event that killed them even happened.

Of course they were beheaded while physically alive, as this is not a symbolic spiritual beheading. They were alive physically after the 7th Trumpet had already sounded and then beheaded to avoid the mark of the beast. That was their testimony of Jesus Christ during this 42 month period that you also claim is not literal. How can they be literally beheaded if not during a literal time frame? Then you place that 42 month period at the end of the thousand years, and claim they are resurrected before they are even beheaded. You claim the resurrection is the 7th Trumpet, while John points out, they are beheaded after the 7th Trumpet had already started to sound.

Then Amil complain we don't understand them, because we point out how obviously wrong they are according to the book of Revelation. We have to be able to understand their position in order to point out it is wrong. The excuse is then the book is too symbolic. If that is the case then Amil cannot understand Revelation either. Obviously their interpretation is not even in sync with the symbolism. Why would symbolism effect chronological order? John still writes that the 7th Trumpet even though just symbolism happens before the beheadings even if just symbolism.

 

[Timtofly]

I wouldn't and have not! This is why I seldom reply to what you specifically write in these forums. You seem unable to argue against what is actually said, and instead make up lunacy and pretend it's what has been argued for or against.

Yet after the Second Coming is when these souls were beheaded you claim are only a spiritual corporate body, instead of having a brand new permanent incorruptible physical body.

You also don't allow a physical resurrection body in heaven since the Cross, just like Premil, then argue you have a different understanding than they do.

Even they acknowledge a corporate existence in Christ while waiting for the Second Coming. Both Amil and Premil are wrong on that point. Yet both of you do agree, except the placement of this thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20.

Obviously these beheaded souls were not beheaded in the first century. And your excuse is the posters pointing that out are stupid or lunatics. Amil are so deceived, they cannot even acknowledge their error even though proud enough to keep at their error and blaim their own faults on others.

And if pointing that out seems harsh and abrasive, so is calling others lunatics and stupid.

The whole point of the argument of a visible and invisible kingdom, is because those on earth are just ambassadors and represent in a visible fashion this invisible heavenly kingdom. But all both sides do is use this point as a useless club to beat each other to death in endless argument.

The only reason you think these beheaded souls are corporate just like Premil is because that is the current understanding of the church the last 2 millennia.

The only reason Premil think these beheaded have a physical body and physical reign with Christ physically on earth is because the millennium is after the Second Coming, so the here and now does not apply to the post Second Coming, just as you have claimed yourself in your response.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Did Nicodemus see it? Mankind does not recognize the Kingdom of God through physical sight! We know it and have entered into the Kingdom of God through FAITH!

Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes, He saw it. He tells Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." In this way, Nicodemus testified about the kingdom of God.

The kingdom of God is wherever God has dominion, and Nicodemus recognized it when he saw the miracles Jesus performed. Nicodemus rightly concluded that Jesus was doing the will of the Father and came from God. In light of this, Jesus affirms the sanctification of Nicodemus, alluding to the reason why Nicodemus recognized the signs for what they meant. He would not have understood the significance of the signs had he not already been born again.

The following is an oft-misunderstood passage. The NASB has it correct.

Luke 17:20-21

Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.​

Some folks misunderstand Jesus to say that the kingdom of God is within our souls or within our hearts, and it can't be seen. But that is not what Jesus meant. Jesus means to say that the kingdom of God consists of people, not places. The kingdom of God was in their midst because the King was in their midst, and he was enforcing the will of God while they watched, just as Nicodemus observed.

Did Jesus contract himself when he said that the Kingdom of God was not coming with signs to be observed? After all, Jesus' miracles proved that he was indeed the Son of God and the king of Israel. He did not contradict himself when he said that the kingdom of God is not coming with signs. Instead, he meant that although he gave the Jews signs, many of them failed to recognize that the King had already arrived. The signs of the Kingdom had been given, but Israel could not benefit from them because of unbelief and incredulity.

But Nicodemus DID recognize the meaning and significance of the signs. According to Jesus, being born again is the factor that explains why Nicodemus recognized the kingdom, while other Jews failed to see them as indicative and meaningful.

 

[Zao is life]

Could the Kingdom of God that Christ said had come be visibly seen when He walked the earth a man? NO! He and all He did while alive on the earth could be visibly seen, but the Kingdom of God is not observed with physical sight. You are preoccupied with the physical flesh of people saying they belong to Christ and are called the Church who may or may not belong to the spiritual Kingdom of God.

I'm not preoccupied with the flesh, but you are obsessed in your gnostic Gospel of the Kingdom with a spiritual Kingdom being completely detached from anything on earth, and being completely detached from human beings who are alive in their bodies.
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The REAL Kingdom of Christ can be seen all the time in scenes like this:

Your gnostic separation of the physical from the spiritual has the King of the Kingdom walking about as an invisible Spirit when He walked among His disciples. And it has His disciples doing the same. Do you not believe that Christ came in the flesh?

CadyandZoe answers your gnostic Gospel of the Kingdom below:​

Yes, He saw it. He tells Jesus, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." In this way, Nicodemus testified about the kingdom of God.

The kingdom of God is wherever God has dominion, and Nicodemus recognized it when he saw the miracles Jesus performed. Nicodemus rightly concluded that Jesus was doing the will of the Father and came from God. In light of this, Jesus affirms the sanctification of Nicodemus, alluding to the reason why Nicodemus recognized the signs for what they meant. He would not have understood the significance of the signs had he not already been born again.

The following is an oft-misunderstood passage. The NASB has it correct.

Luke 17:20-21

Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.​

Some folks misunderstand Jesus to say that the kingdom of God is within our souls or within our hearts, and it can't be seen. But that is not what Jesus meant. Jesus means to say that the kingdom of God consists of people, not places. The kingdom of God was in their midst because the King was in their midst, and he was enforcing the will of God while they watched, just as Nicodemus observed.

Did Jesus contract himself when he said that the Kingdom of God was not coming with signs to be observed? After all, Jesus' miracles proved that he was indeed the Son of God and the king of Israel. He did not contradict himself when he said that the kingdom of God is not coming with signs. Instead, he meant that although he gave the Jews signs, many of them failed to recognize that the King had already arrived. The signs of the Kingdom had been given, but Israel could not benefit from them because of unbelief and incredulity.

But Nicodemus DID recognize the meaning and significance of the signs. According to Jesus, being born again is the factor that explains why Nicodemus recognized the kingdom, while other Jews failed to see them as indicative and meaningful.