They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

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rwb

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When your body dies, your spirit does not come out of it and go to Christ with another body or in another body. Everlasting life implies everlasting life in the body. Why do you think our Savior came, took our sin upon Himself, experienced death for us, experienced the quickening of His dead body for us, and rose again from the dead?

NO, it doesn't! We were a physical, spiritual body of believers in life, and Paul writes that when our flesh is dead, we are still a spiritual body of believers ascended to heaven where we wait for an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds time/delay shall be no longer, when we are once again shall be physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible, once again complete living souls fit to live forever with Christ upon the new earth.
You need to agree with God and with what God created before you can understand this.

Exactly! I'm certainly NOT going to agree with Premillennialists NONSENSE! Apparently, you do NOT believe Christ when He says the life we have when we live and believe in Him is FOREVER!
 

Davidpt

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What's the difference between there shall be no more delay as some manuscripts have it or there shall be time no longer as the KJV has it? It still says when the seventh trumpet begins to sound the mystery that had been hidden shall be known. The mystery, as I've already shown you is that Gentiles have completed the Kingdom of God. That means the Kingdom of God is complete, and is the only reason that Satan is loosed for his little season.

The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is sent out unto all the nations of the world that through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit creation might be saved. Again when Christ says the life we have in Him from the moment we believe is NEVER ENDING....I believe Him!

Do other Amils agree with you that the 7th trumpet is the beginning of satan's little season? Speaking for myself, if I too thought satan's little season occurs in this age, the last place I would think it occurs is during the 7th trumpet. The 7th trumpet involves the wrath of God and the 2nd coming. The wrath of God is after the 42 month reign of the beast.

Maybe satan's little season can fit 42 month reign of the beast? Except that is not possible to begin with since Revelation 20:4 is already involving the 42 month of the beast, and that it places that era of time before the thousand years not after. Amil needs this 42 month reign to fit after the thousand years in order for Amil to be plausible.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit , and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them


Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed : and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads
:


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands ; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

One would have to be blinded by their doctrines to not see that what I have underlined in Revelation 20:4 is undeniably involving what I submitted from these other Revelation passages. And according to Revelation 20:4 they are not martyred during satan's little season after the thousand years if they are already martyred before the thousand years even begin.

and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months(Revelation 13:5). Obviously, regardless whether this 42 months is literal months are not, the text plainly says he is only allowed to continue for 42 months. Which means once this 42 months expires he or it is no longer allowed to continue, obviously.

And the reason why is the 7th trumpet. And since this 42 month reign can't possibly fit after the thousand years, this indicates that both this 42 month reign of the beast and the 7th trumpet that puts an end to it's reign, they precede the beginning of the thousand years. Thus Premil and certainly not Amil.

Let's just ignore any of this. Let's continue to insist Amil is the correct position regardless that Amil needs the 42 month reign of the beast to be after the thousand years in order for Amil to be the correct position, except the 42 month reign can't possibly fit after the thousand years. And Revelation 20:4, for one, proves it.
 
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Davidpt

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NO, it doesn't! We were a physical, spiritual body of believers in life, and Paul writes that when our flesh is dead, we are still a spiritual body of believers ascended to heaven where we wait for an hour that is coming when the last trumpet sounds time/delay shall be no longer, when we are once again shall be physically resurrected immortal & incorruptible, once again complete living souls fit to live forever with Christ upon the new earth.


Exactly! I'm certainly NOT going to agree with Premillennialists NONSENSE! Apparently, you do NOT believe Christ when He says the life we have when we live and believe in Him is FOREVER!

You just don't get it. You apparently deny that even the saved physically die. You don't even understand that it is impossible to live forever unless the last trump has sounded first(1 Corinthians 15:51-57). You think when Jesus said that a believer shall never die, that He was applying that to the here and now. So much for Scripture interpreting Scripture, since you fail to first consider Scripture, such as 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, before trying to discern what Jesus meant when He said ye shall never die. Plus there is this Scripture as well, below.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


And guess what neither can they die any more equals? It equals exactly what Jesus said it equals, that one can never die. Clearly, thus undeniably, Luke 20:35-36 is not meaning before the last trump, it is meaning as of the last trump. In order to never die any more one has to be bodily alive first, not in a disembodied state instead. Are you going to deny that the resurrection from the dead in verse 35 is pertaining to the last trump?
 
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rwb

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You just don't get it. You apparently deny that even the saved physically die. You don't even understand that it is impossible to live forever unless the last trump has sounded first(1 Corinthians 15:51-57). You think when Jesus said that a believer shall never die, that He was applying that to the here and now. So much for Scripture interpreting Scripture, since you fail to first consider Scripture, such as 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, before trying to discern what Jesus meant when He said ye shall never die. Plus there is this Scripture as well, below.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


And guess what neither can they die any more equals? It equals exactly what Jesus said it equals, that one can never die. Clearly, thus undeniably, Luke 20:35-36 is not meaning before the last trump, it is meaning as of the last trump.

I don't get it? You appear to be the one who does NOT believe Christ! Do you not understand that death of the flesh is NOT death for the one who dies in faith? It is simply a transitioning from this earth to the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven. Are you really so unaware that John says he saw DEAD saints who were alive, not because they had been made physically alive again, but because they died in faith knowing that the flesh would not last forever, but through the Spirit of Christ in them, death of the flesh cannot kill the spiritual body of believers, because we have Christ's promise that he who lives and believes in HIM SHALL NEVER DIE! If you weren't so preoccupied with trying to prove your doctrine of deception, you could understand that death of our mortal flesh is NOT death of our spirit that is alive forever.

I don't THINK Jesus gives us this promise, I KNOW He does!

John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Your problem is that you're fixated on the natural, physical body that is ordained to DIE! You think the DEAD, being saints of Christ will physically live again in this age of time. They must for your doctrine of deception to be true. You don't even know that you & I do not belong to this body of flesh destined to die. We are the persons we are inside, not outside. It is we inside that shall never die, even a child can understand this.
 

Zao is life

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What's the difference between there shall be no more delay as some manuscripts have it or there shall be time no longer as the KJV has it? It still says when the seventh trumpet begins to sound the mystery that had been hidden shall be known. The mystery, as I've already shown you is that Gentiles have completed the Kingdom of God. That means the Kingdom of God is complete, and is the only reason that Satan is loosed for his little season.

The Gospel of the Kingdom of God is sent out unto all the nations of the world that through Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit creation might be saved. Again when Christ says the life we have in Him from the moment we believe is NEVER ENDING....I believe Him!
LOL. No you don't believe Him. What Kingdom did Jesus tell us to pray for in the Lord's prayer? One that's already come and according to your own gospel "is busy being completed"?
 

Zao is life

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Now, after explaining that zao means to have life, you add it "implies" in the body. Life is life whether physical or spiritual, it is still life. And when there is life (soul) it's because the spirit LIVES on after the flesh of believers has breathed its last.

Again, this simply confirms what I've been saying all along! When the flesh dies, it will not again become a physical body before an hour coming when the last/seventh trumpet begins to sound that time shall be no longer and there shall be no more delay! That's why you cannot have bodies of flesh seen physically alive after death during this imagined period of one thousand years of more time. NONE who have physically died shall have a body of flesh again until time is no more and there is no longer delay!
No. You cannot change the Word of God to suit your false doctrine. The New Testament was written in Greek. Zao always means and is always talking about being alive in the human body. Everlasting life in the Greek is aiṓnios zōḗ and always means and is always talking about everlasting life in the body.
 

rwb

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Do other Amils agree with you that the 7th trumpet is the beginning of satan's little season? Speaking for myself, if I too thought satan's little season occurs in this age, the last place I would think it occurs is during the 7th trumpet. The 7th trumpet involves the wrath of God and the 2nd coming. The wrath of God is after the 42 month reign of the beast.

Maybe satan's little season can fit 42 month reign of the beast? Except that is not possible to begin with since Revelation 20:4 is already involving the 42 month of the beast, and that it places that era of time before the thousand years not after. Amil needs this 42 month reign to fit after the thousand years in order for Amil to be plausible.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit , and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them


Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed : and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads
:


Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands ; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

One would have to be blinded by their doctrines to not see that what I have underlined in Revelation 20:4 is undeniably involving what I submitted from these other Revelation passages. And according to Revelation 20:4 they are not martyred during satan's little season after the thousand years if they are already martyred before the thousand years even begin.

and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months(Revelation 13:5). Obviously, regardless whether this 42 months is literal months are not, the text plainly says he is only allowed to continue for 42 months. Which means once this 42 months expires he or it is no longer allowed to continue, obviously.

And the reason why is the 7th trumpet. And since this 42 month reign can't possibly fit after the thousand years, this indicates that both this 42 month reign of the beast and the 7th trumpet that puts an end to it's reign, they precede the beginning of the thousand years. Thus Premil and certainly not Amil.

Let's just ignore any of this. Let's continue to insist Amil is the correct position regardless that Amil needs the 42 month reign of the beast to be after the thousand years in order for Amil to be the correct position, except the 42 month reign can't possibly fit after the thousand years. And Revelation 20:4, for one, proves it.

David, this entire reply makes guesses, assumes and thinks maybe. That's called an opinion and assumption that may or may not be biblical truth.
 

Zao is life

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Paul writes that when our flesh is dead, we are still a spiritual body of believers ascended to heaven
Paul does not write that - anywhere. Adding to the scriptures is just one of the steps you have taken on your path to another gospel. Another step you take a lot is to take away from the scriptures. After this you eisegetically insert your own interpretation produced by your adding to the scriptures, lying about what Paul wrote (as you have just done above), and your taking away from the scriptures.

In other words, you are now obliged to provide the scripture reference for the place you say Paul wrote the above (which you should have provided in the first place).
 

rwb

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LOL. No you don't believe Him. What Kingdom did Jesus tell us to pray for in the Lord's prayer? One that's already come and according to your own gospel "is busy being completed"?

Christ instructs us to pray "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done" because the Kingdom of God in heaven is NOT yet complete. The prayer is that is will be complete. When Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God it was still many, many generations away from completion and perfection. Which is why we are instructed to pray, with assurance that the Kingdom of God would one day come to the new earth where His will shall always be done.
 

Zao is life

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I don't get it? You appear to be the one who does NOT believe Christ! Do you not understand that death of the flesh is NOT death for the one who dies in faith? It is simply a transitioning from this earth to the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven. Are you really so unaware that John says he saw DEAD saints who were alive, not because they had been made physically alive again, but because they died in faith knowing that the flesh would not last forever, but through the Spirit of Christ in them, death of the flesh cannot kill the spiritual body of believers, because we have Christ's promise that he who lives and believes in HIM SHALL NEVER DIE! If you weren't so preoccupied with trying to prove your doctrine of deception, you could understand that death of our mortal flesh is NOT death of our spirit that is alive forever.

I don't THINK Jesus gives us this promise, I KNOW He does!

John 11:26 (KJV) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Your problem is that you're fixated on the natural, physical body that is ordained to DIE! You think the DEAD, being saints of Christ will physically live again in this age of time. They must for your doctrine of deception to be true. You don't even know that you & I do not belong to this body of flesh destined to die. We are the persons we are inside, not outside. It is we inside that shall never die, even a child can understand this.
God created Adam with a body. The bodies of humans die. Though it is not a tragedy to you, it's such an unacceptable situation to God that Christ humbled Himself, taking on human flesh, dying (His body was dead), and rising again after His body was quickened by the Spirit.

It's called DEATH. It's what Christ came to undo. You are saying that Paul is a liar and lied every time he wrote about the dead who died in Christ.

God is NOT satisfied with the human spirit of the person who died while believing in Christ not living again (being alive again) in the body that is to be resurrected, just because you are.
 

rwb

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No. You cannot change the Word of God to suit your false doctrine. The New Testament was written in Greek. Zao always means and is always talking about being alive in the human body. Everlasting life in the Greek is aiṓnios zōḗ and always means and is always talking about everlasting life in the body.

Yes, I agree once we have obtained everlasting life before we die, our everlasting life does not cease when we ascend to heaven a spiritual body of believers.
 

Zao is life

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Christ instructs us to pray "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done" because the Kingdom of God in heaven is NOT yet complete. The prayer is that is will be complete. When Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God it was still many, many generations away from completion and perfection. Which is why we are instructed to pray, with assurance that the Kingdom of God would one day come to the new earth where His will shall always be done.
Your doctrine is ridiculous. God does not need to build a Kingdom of God in heaven. Heaven is God's abode. It's always been God's Kingdom. There is only one God there.

The earth is His creation, where He created humans to live forever. It's in the creation that needed His Kingdom to be built after Adam sinned. Your gnostic doctrine has got you believing all sorts of nonsense
 

rwb

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Paul does not write that - anywhere. Adding to the scriptures is just one of the steps you have taken on your path to another gospel. Another step you take a lot is to take away from the scriptures. After this you eisegetically insert your own interpretation produced by your adding to the scriptures, lying about what Paul wrote (as you have just done above), and your taking away from the scriptures.

In other words, you are now obliged to provide the scripture reference for the place you say Paul wrote the above (which you should have provided in the first place).

I would present once again where in Scripture it is written that when our physical body succumbs to death we (believers), are raised a spiritual body to heaven where our spirit returns to God who gave it still a living soul, BUT it would be like talking to the wall!
 

Zao is life

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Yes, I agree once we have obtained everlasting life before we die, our everlasting life does not cease when we ascend to heaven a spiritual body of believers.
There are no human spirits going to heaven in bodies. The human spirit is spirit. The only body your spirit has is the one you are living in now. God does not need to build a Kingdom in heaven. It is and always has been His own abode. He is building a Kingdom in His creation, where Adam was created with a body, soul and spirit to live forever in a body.
 

Zao is life

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Christ instructs us to pray "thy Kingdom come, thy will be done" because the Kingdom of God in heaven is NOT yet complete. The prayer is that is will be complete. When Christ ushered in the Kingdom of God it was still many, many generations away from completion and perfection. Which is why we are instructed to pray, with assurance that the Kingdom of God would one day come to the new earth where His will shall always be done.
Finally you admit that just as @Davidpt explained to you, and quoting scripture, the kingdom of Christ will only come after the resurrection of the body from the dead. After the 7th trumpet has sounded. Then we will all be alive forever in the body, as Jesus told Martha.
 

rwb

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God created Adam with a body. The bodies of humans die. Though it is not a tragedy to you, it's such an unacceptable situation to God that Christ humbled Himself, taking on human flesh, dying (His body was dead), and rising again after His body was quickened by the Spirit.

It's called DEATH. It's what Christ came to undo. You are saying that Paul is a liar and lied every time he wrote about the dead who died in Christ.

God is NOT satisfied with the human spirit of the person who died while believing in Christ not living again (being alive again) in the body that is to be resurrected, just because you are.

I'm not in a hurry to physically die, and I abhor physical suffering in this life, but I do NOT fear physical death. Because I know in whom I have believed and trust the life that I receive through Christ's Spirit within me shall NEVER die. You seem to be overly in love with your flesh that is destined to corruption and shall die, why is that? Physical death for those who die in faith is NOT feared because we know that Christ has defeated death, and through His resurrection death of our flesh simply takes us from this earth to the Kingdom of God in heaven.
 

rwb

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Finally you admit that just as @Davidpt explained to you, and quoting scripture, the kingdom of Christ will only come after the resurrection of the body from the dead. After the 7th trumpet has sounded. Then we will all be alive forever in the body, as Jesus told Martha.

Once again you and David, desperately trying to prove your unbiblical doctrine of deception ADMIT you do NOT believe Christ when He says whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die! I'm beginning to wonder if either one of you even know much less have entered the Kingdom of God? If you don't know there is a Kingdom of God, how would you know how to enter into it?
 

Zao is life

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I'm not in a hurry to physically die, and I abhor physical suffering in this life, but I do NOT fear physical death. Because I know in whom I have believed and trust the life that I receive through Christ's Spirit within me shall NEVER die. You seem to be overly in love with your flesh that is destined to corruption and shall die, why is that? Physical death for those who die in faith is NOT feared because we know that Christ has defeated death, and through His resurrection death of our flesh simply takes us from this earth to the Kingdom of God in heaven.
You keep betraying the fact that you do not understand what eternal life is - biblically. The eternal life that Christ and His apostles taught about. Your eternal life is OK while your spirit is detached from the body God created Adam to live in. You're not going to be able to function as a human being after death, after the death of your body - not until the resurrection of your body, because your spirit will go to be with Christ, yes - but it will have no body to function in, because your body will be dead and there is no "other" body for the human spirit.

Crazy, or just plain lazy. I'm not sure which category your doctrine fits into. You're quite satisfied with floating around forever doing nothing because your spirit cannot function without your human body.
 

Zao is life

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Once again you and David, desperately trying to prove your unbiblical doctrine of deception ADMIT you do NOT believe Christ when He says whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die! I'm beginning to wonder if either one of you even know much less have entered the Kingdom of God? If you don't know there is a Kingdom of God, how would you know how to enter into it?
Be careful. It's you who does not know where the Kingdom of God is. And it's you who does not understand what the eternal life is that Jesus and His apostles taught about, and why eternal life includes the human body.

And it's you who is the first to subtly imply that others (myself and David) are not saved.

And it's your doctrine which is false and a deception.

So you should be careful.
 

rwb

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You keep betraying the fact that you do not understand what eternal life is - biblically. The eternal life that Christ and His apostles taught about. Your eternal life is OK while your spirit is detached from the body God created Adam to live in. You're not going to be able to function as a human being after death, after the death of your body - not until the resurrection of your body, because your spirit will go to be with Christ, yes - but it will have no body to function in, because your body will be dead and there is no "other" body for the human spirit.

Crazy, or just plain lazy. I'm not sure which category your doctrine fits into. You're quite satisfied with floating around forever doing nothing because your spirit cannot function without your human body.

Mankind is not a complete living soul without both body + breath of life (spirit) = a living soul. While alive on this earth mankind is fitted with a body of flesh that since the fall is ordained to die. Christ knew this when he said the life we receive when we live and believe in Him shall NEVER die. What does that mean? It is a double negative strengthening what is being said. Christ is saying "dying, no never, not at all, shall never perish, eternally; forever to perpetuity, without end, evermore shall not die"! Do you think Christ didn't know that our body of flesh is ordained to die, but still tells us we would never ever die? Of course He knew, and yet we have His promise that whosoever lives and believes in Him shall NEVER die! Why do you believe the eternal/never ending life we have in Christ is only of our flesh? Especially since we all know our flesh is destined to die! If our life does not continue a spiritual body of believers in heaven after our flesh has died, then Christ would not have said our life through Him shall endure forever!

John 11:26 (KJVSL) And καί whosoever πᾶς liveth ζάω and καί believeth πιστεύω in εἰς me ἐμέ shall ἀποθνήσκω never οὐ μή εἰς αἰών die ἀποθνήσκω. Believest thou πιστεύω this τοῦτο?