They will reign with Him a thousand years and making an unknown Greek out of the English New Testament

[Zao is life]

Really? The way I'm choosing to read it is through that which is written without reading my opinion into the words John wrote, as you do. It is he, not I speaking of these martyred souls saying, "they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." No matter how you believe a thousand years means, only a fool would deny it represents TIME. It doesn't take great understanding to realize that one is martyred while physically alive, and although they were physically martyred, before they died they lived and reigned with Christ during this time John writes "a thousand years." Notice John does not say they must be resurrected to physical life again then they lived and reigned with Christ in TIME (a thousand years). Because John knows there will be NONE physically resurrected in TIME, because there shall be NO physical resurrection before an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds THAT TIME SHALL BE NO LONGER!

Lol. By your own words you've just admitted that John could not have seen those who refused to worship the beast or receive its image alive in human bodies (zao) and have called this the first resurrection of the body (anastasis) before the 7th trumpet sounded.

And you continue to eisegetically read "no time anymore" into "no more time/delay" immediately before the 7th trumpet sounds, too.

So you show "all the time" how you have built one eisegetically produced doctrine on top of another in order to hold onto your first logical fallacy, if you'll pardon the pun.

 

[rwb]

Lol. By your own words you've just admitted that John could not have seen those who refused to worship the beast or receive its image alive in human bodies (zao) and have called this the first resurrection of the body (anastasis) before the 7th trumpet sounded.

Of course, John does not say the first resurrection is of those martyred physical flesh! John isn't stupid! He understands there shall be none bodily resurrected before an hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, that TIME shall be no longer! Why would John say they have been physically resurrected then they will be counted as those who HAVE LIVED and REIGNED with Christ in TIME, since John knows there will be NO physical resurrection of the physically DEAD until the end of TIME??? Like I said John is not stupid! That's why John writes he saw the "souls" which indicates alive or having life, AFTER they physically lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, alive in heaven after physical death.

In Rev 10 it makes no difference to write "there should be time no longer" or "there shall no more be delay"! They both mean the same thing. That the mystery of God should be fulfilled, and that is that Gentiles would be the last to come into the Kingdom of God and in this way time/delay should be no longer for this earth because Gentiles have completed the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[Timtofly]

In addition, you are incorrect that Abraham's bosom is the same place as God's Paradise.

I never said it was. In fact it cannot be.

So now you say the body itself goes into sheol? Obviously you don't think the soul can be separated from a physical body. God says many places this physical body returns to dust. This body of death does not change to life. It changes to dust. In fact many humans turn their bodies into ashes, just another form of dust. Those ashes are not ever going to be turned into something else. So explain how this body that returns to dust follows the soul into the fires of sheol.

 

[Timtofly]

He made it into the same garden.

No, Jesus said they would be in the same place together. You have literally no proof either way. You assume this thief was a rich person, like Joseph of Arimathaea.

"And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed."

I have proof that Paradise is where the tree of life is, and that Paul calls Paradise the third heaven. You take one verse and form an opinion. Jesus only needed the tomb for 3 days. Now, do you think that the thief also rose again 3 days later, or was already in Paradise the moment the thief died? You may not plan on going to Paradise for thousands of years. But Jesus promised the thief he would be there that day. That was the kingdom that the thief entered. Not sure where you think Jesus has been for the last 1994 years, if not in Paradise.

Of course the kingdom is in Paradise, and Jesus also wanted that kingdom extended to earth. But that won't happen until the Second Coming. But those in Christ are not locked out of the kingdom in Paradise. Paradise was opened for Adam's offspring, who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, because of the Cross. The kingdom was not necessarily allowed on earth, until Jesus as King returns. The kingdom in Paradise started with the thief on the Cross, followed by the rest of those souls in Abraham's bosom 3 days later.

Not sure why you think the soul and body cannot separate? Do you think the story of Saul visiting a witch to call up Samuel was just a parable? Obviously Samuel existed as a soul without a physical body.

 

[Timtofly]

Because I know that while I am alive in Christ before my flesh breathes its last, I have partaken of the first resurrection from the dead because I have partaken of Christ, and through Him I am already alive forever.

You only conflate simple truth to bolster your erroneous opinion.

You have experienced the second birth.

If you have experienced the first resurrection, you would be physically in Paradise like the thief on the Cross. How is the wifi and computers in Paradise these days? Is that why Paul was baffled in the first century, because they already had computers and an internet in Paradise?

Of course they would! That's why John writes they had already lived and reigned with Christ in TIME before they physically died.

How did they physically die then, if you think they never died?

John says they lived and reigned after the first resurrection, after physical death. You are so messed up that you think they lived without heads.

John saw them as souls, because they were physically dead, after having their head chopped off as the reason they were physically dead. The thousand years happend after the first resurrection, which is physical.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, sadly I understand you believe what you want to believe. You don't even acknowledge the FACT that the Kingdom of God has come.

Where are the facts? Is God's will done on earth as it is in heaven? I don't think so.

My Lord is not a liar!

We have the same Lord and he isn't a liar.

How can your Lord not be a liar if physical resurrection is all we can hope for?

What else do you want that you don't already have?

My Lord has given me assurance that the life that I have in Him, through His Spirit in me, when I knew and entered the Kingdom of God is forever/eternal/never ending life.

We draw a distinction between a promise and reality. Never-ending life is promised to us. But we don't experience it now. As Paul asks, "Why would we hope in something that we already have?"

You have hope only in you physical flesh destined to destruction, but I have hope in Christ's Holy Spirit within me who shall continue to give me everlasting life even though my flesh shall succumb to death.

We both share the hope of eternal life, but we disagree on what we have currently and what we will receive later. Eternal life is not just never-ending life; it is a higher quality of life that we call "aionic" life. This life is free from all negative things such as disease, decay, disappointment, enmity, hatred, bigotry, war, envy, greed, misery, and suffering. These things rob life of well-being, fulfillment, happiness, flourishing, and prosperity. Although we may experience a hint of it now, we cannot experience its fullness until the next age.

Your hope is in physically seeing, I have blessed assurance through His Spirit in me who promises the life I have received through Him shall NEVER die! I know in whom I have believed, that He is able to do all and more than I can physically see.

Sure. He can do more than you can physically see. This does not negate the fact that we pray that God's will shall be done on earth as it is in heaven and since we pray this prayer because we know that God's will is not being done on earth as it is in heaven. Therefore the kingdom of God is not realized yet. We must wait for it.

No! The first resurrection is the physical resurrection of Christ that we must partake of in life before our flesh breathes its last.

The only person who mentions the first resurrection is John in the Book of Revelation. And in that context, he is talking about being raised from the dead.

This we do during this age of TIME, then when we breathe our last we too shall be among those who "HAVED LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST"!

No, in that context, "living and reigning with Christ" takes place on earth. According to Paul, he must rule on earth until all his enemies have been put under his feet.

My flesh is temporary! Man is born with mortal & corruptible flesh for this earth, that is destined to die. You focus only on the physical, material things of this world that shall not be forever but are all destined to destruction. Why would anyone want to cling to mortal, corruptible bodies destined to die? My hope is not in the physical body I now have, it is in the man within, that which has the Holy Spirit of Christ and has put off the old man and put on the new. It is the physical body that shall be resurrected in an hour coming when the last trumpet sounds and time shall be no longer that I long for. Because then my flesh & bone shall be changed to immortal and incorruptible flesh made alive through my eternal/everlasting spirit that shall be with Christ when He comes again.

You are mischaracterizing my comments. Nothing I said can be construed as focusing on the material things of this world. Though I wonder where you get the idea that the "new man" has no physical aspect?

In his discussion, Paul explains that at some point in the future, all of us will be transformed. He uses the analogy of a seed that is planted in the ground to describe our current physical body. Our new body, on the other hand, is compared to the plant that grows from the seed. This analogy highlights the fact that there will be continuity between our old and new bodies. For instance, when Thomas saw Jesus after his resurrection, he was able to feel his body and see the wounds on his hands and feet. This shows that the resurrected body of Jesus had continuity with his former body.

 

[CadyandZoe]

NO! That's you assuming what you do not understand!

No. It's how language works. If I ask Zoe to bring me a glass of water, why would I ask her for water if I already had it? She would tell me, "Are you wearing your glasses? It's right there in front of you." We don't ask for what we don't have. If we ask for it, we need it. If we need it we don't have it.

If you don't understand the Kingdom of God has come, how do you know you have been born again? Christ tells us that we will know and enter the Kingdom of God when we are born again. If you don't understand that fundamental truth from Christ, how can you possibly know that you have been born again?

Jesus began his ministry by preaching about the kingdom of God, which he said was very close. When he said "at hand," he meant that it was not present yet, but it was coming soon, and his arrival as the king was making it possible. Jesus performed many miracles to prove that he was the Christ, the Son of God, and the King of Israel, and to show that the kingdom of God was indeed near.

During his time on Earth, Jesus was the only one who was doing the will of God, while others were not. He manifested the kingdom of God in a limited way during his ministry and only those who were born again could see it. Jesus taught his disciples to pray for the kingdom to come in its fullness, saying, "thy will be done on Earth as it is in heaven." Although the kingdom of God was near the Jewish people, it was only being manifested for a short time and with a limited scope. We are still waiting for Jesus to come again, which is known as the "Parousia."

Get your mind and heart off the physical, material things that are destined for destruction, and begin to seek for spiritual understanding that you may know the things given of the Spirit.

My mind and heart are not on the material things of this world. But I am not one of those who believe that the physical is necessarily evil or undesirable. After all, Jesus is physical.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I never said it was. In fact it cannot be.

I'm sorry. I misunderstood what you said.

So now you say the body itself goes into sheol?

Sheol is the grave. Yes, the body goes into the grave.

Obviously you don't think the soul can be separated from a physical body.

That's right.

God says many places this physical body returns to dust. This body of death does not change to life. It changes to dust.

Right.

In fact many humans turn their bodies into ashes, just another form of dust. Those ashes are not ever going to be turned into something else. So explain how this body that returns to dust follows the soul into the fires of sheol.

Once the body dies, the soul no longer exists.

 

[CadyandZoe]

No, Jesus said they would be in the same place together. You have literally no proof either way.

Suppose a man took his family to an amusement park. And another man took his family to the same park. If the first man enters the park from the north, while the second man enters from the south, are they in the same place? Yes. They are both in the park.

Both Jesus and the man went to the same garden.

You assume this thief was a rich person, like Joseph of Arimathaea.

We don't need to assume.

I have proof that Paradise is where the tree of life is, and that Paul calls Paradise the third heaven.

And I have proof that the word Paradise has more than one meaning.

You take one verse and form an opinion.

My opinion is based on the entire account as you should already know.

Jesus only needed the tomb for 3 days. Now, do you think that the thief also rose again 3 days later, or was already in Paradise the moment the thief died?

What does that matter? Jesus told the thief that they would be in the garden TODAY. Where did they place Jesus' body on that day? The garden tomb.

You may not plan on going to Paradise for thousands of years. But Jesus promised the thief he would be there that day.

Did Jesus go to God's paradise that day? No, he didn't rise from the dead until 3-days later. Did Jesus go to God's paradise three days later? No, he told Mary that he hadn't gone yet. When did Jesus go to God's paradise? Not until just before Pentecost.

Of course the kingdom is in Paradise, and Jesus also wanted that kingdom extended to earth.

The thief was not asking Jesus to remember him in Paradise. He asked Jesus to remember him, "when you come into your kingdom." Did Jesus come into his kingdom on that day? I don't think so.

But that won't happen until the Second Coming. But those in Christ are not locked out of the kingdom in Paradise. Paradise was opened for Adam's offspring, who have been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, because of the Cross. The kingdom was not necessarily allowed on earth, until Jesus as King returns. The kingdom in Paradise started with the thief on the Cross, followed by the rest of those souls in Abraham's bosom 3 days later.

Where is this found in scripture?

Not sure why you think the soul and body cannot separate?

I maintain that if the soul should exist apart from the body, the soul ceases to be alive, and it also ceases to be a person.

Do you think the story of Saul visiting a witch to call up Samuel was just a parable?

Did the witch see Samuel? If so, he had a body. But why do you believe that the witch actually saw Samuel? The passage records the activities of two evil, unrighteous, people. Why would you believe anything they said. The witch said she called up Samuel. But did she? Saul said he saw Samuel, but did he actually see what was real or what he wanted to see? Isn't it more likely that Saul was being duped?

Obviously Samuel existed as a soul without a physical body.

The passage says nothing about a soul. But in the book of Isaiah, God exclaims, "Why do they consult the dead on behalf of the living?!" Isaiah 8:9 What is the alternative? To seek God's will in his law and the testimony instead. Those who seek the dead on behalf of the living have no dawn and remain in the dark.

I don't think we can prove that a person exists without a body from the testimony of a charlatan witch.

 

[Timtofly]

Once the body dies, the soul no longer exists.

I guess that explains everything, and why you don't accept the resurrection of those in Christ.

Sheol is the place where Satan and the lost experience God's punishment. But the body of death from Adam would not last a second, much less arrive into sheol. That is why only the soul enters sheol. The soul is what is eventually placed in the LOF.

 

[Timtofly]

Suppose a man took his family to an amusement park. And another man took his family to the same park. If the first man enters the park from the north, while the second man enters from the south, are they in the same place? Yes. They are both in the park.

Both Jesus and the man went to the same garden.

We don't need to assume.

And I have proof that the word Paradise has more than one meaning.

My opinion is based on the entire account as you should already know.


What does that matter? Jesus told the thief that they would be in the garden TODAY. Where did they place Jesus' body on that day? The garden tomb.

Did Jesus go to God's paradise that day? No, he didn't rise from the dead until 3-days later. Did Jesus go to God's paradise three days later? No, he told Mary that he hadn't gone yet. When did Jesus go to God's paradise? Not until just before Pentecost.

The thief was not asking Jesus to remember him in Paradise. He asked Jesus to remember him, "when you come into your kingdom." Did Jesus come into his kingdom on that day? I don't think so.

Where is this found in scripture?

I maintain that if the soul should exist apart from the body, the soul ceases to be alive, and it also ceases to be a person.

Did the witch see Samuel? If so, he had a body. But why do you believe that the witch actually saw Samuel? The passage records the activities of two evil, unrighteous, people. Why would you believe anything they said. The witch said she called up Samuel. But did she? Saul said he saw Samuel, but did he actually see what was real or what he wanted to see? Isn't it more likely that Saul was being duped?

The passage says nothing about a soul. But in the book of Isaiah, God exclaims, "Why do they consult the dead on behalf of the living?!" Isaiah 8:9 What is the alternative? To seek God's will in his law and the testimony instead. Those who seek the dead on behalf of the living have no dawn and remain in the dark.

I don't think we can prove that a person exists without a body from the testimony of a charlatan witch.

"There has been just one archaeological case of crucifixion published to our knowledge. Cases are rare, as most crucified people were not formally buried, but left on a rubbish dump to be eaten by wild dogs and hyenas."

Unless you can prove this thief was not a thief nor a common criminal, you have no evidence he was buried, much less the same area Jesus was temporarily placed.

Not to mention the question was not about death, but everlasting life in the kingdom of Christ.

Samuel did not have a body in Abraham's bosom. That would have been the soul. Samuel said Saul would die the next day in battle. That happened, so I don’t think he was duped. Just asking if you thought it was a parable.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I guess that explains everything, and why you don't accept the resurrection of those in Christ.

Sheol is the place where Satan and the lost experience God's punishment. But the body of death from Adam would not last a second, much less arrive into sheol. That is why only the soul enters sheol. The soul is what is eventually placed in the LOF.

Do you have any scripture to back this up?

 

[CadyandZoe]

"There has been just one archaeological case of crucifixion published to our knowledge. Cases are rare, as most crucified people were not formally buried, but left on a rubbish dump to be eaten by wild dogs and hyenas."

Unless you can prove this thief was not a thief nor a common criminal, you have no evidence he was buried, much less the same area Jesus was temporarily placed.

I take Jesus' word for it. He and the thief would be in a garden TODAY.

Not to mention the question was not about death, but everlasting life in the kingdom of Christ.

Try to see the entire account as a unified whole. The fact that Jesus was on the cross and about to die a criminal's death strongly implicates Jesus as a false messiah. Even as he hung there, some in the crowds were mocking him, saying, "He saved others, let him save himself IF he is the Christ." While the soldiers were mocking him, one of the criminals began to mock him also. The soldiers hoped to see a miracle; the criminal hoped to be removed from the cross.

From this, we understand the larger question. Is Jesus the Christ or not? He has a chance to prove himself (again) but it seems, from the current circumstances, that Jesus was a false messiah. In THAT context, the thief asks Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your kingdom."

On the face of it, this seems like an odd request, coming out of the blue. But if we consider the entire account as a unified whole, we understand why the thief's question follows logically from the crowd's responses.

Suppose that the "kingdom" is the sum total of all who believe. Then why does the thief ask to be remembered? Why does Jesus need to "come into the kingdom?"

And what about Jesus' response? Why did Jesus focus on TODAY rather than three days hence? It was well known by his disciples that Jesus would die and be raised after the third day as he often said. And yet Jesus was focused on TODAY. "“Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

You will say, "Jesus was giving comfort to the thief, letting him know that the thief would join him in heaven in the afterlife." But that is NOT what Jesus expected to happen. He expected to be in a grave for three days and three nights just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights. Jesus did NOT expect to be in heaven TODAY.

John 20:15-17

Jesus *said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing Him to be the gardener, she *said to Him, “Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away.” Jesus *said to her, “Mary!” She turned and *said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher). Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”​

Where was Jesus? In a garden. What does "paradise" mean? A garden. Did Jesus rise up to meet the thief in heaven? No. he had not yet ascended to the Father.

My understanding of Jesus' word to the thief is informed and colored by what actually happened as recorded in the gospel accounts.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you have any scripture to back this up?

Every single verse that has the word sheol in it.

 

[Timtofly]

I take Jesus' word for it. He and the thief would be in a garden TODAY.


Try to see the entire account as a unified whole. The fact that Jesus was on the cross and about to die a criminal's death strongly implicates Jesus as a false messiah. Even as he hung there, some in the crowds were mocking him, saying, "He saved others, let him save himself IF he is the Christ." While the soldiers were mocking him, one of the criminals began to mock him also. The soldiers hoped to see a miracle; the criminal hoped to be removed from the cross.

From this, we understand the larger question. Is Jesus the Christ or not? He has a chance to prove himself (again) but it seems, from the current circumstances, that Jesus was a false messiah. In THAT context, the thief asks Jesus, "Remember me when you come into your kingdom."

On the face of it, this seems like an odd request, coming out of the blue. But if we consider the entire account as a unified whole, we understand why the thief's question follows logically from the crowd's responses.

Suppose that the "kingdom" is the sum total of all who believe. Then why does the thief ask to be remembered? Why does Jesus need to "come into the kingdom?"

And what about Jesus' response? Why did Jesus focus on TODAY rather than three days hence? It was well known by his disciples that Jesus would die and be raised after the third day as he often said. And yet Jesus was focused on TODAY. "“Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

You will say, "Jesus was giving comfort to the thief, letting him know that the thief would join him in heaven in the afterlife." But that is NOT what Jesus expected to happen. He expected to be in a grave for three days and three nights just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days and three nights. Jesus did NOT expect to be in heaven TODAY.

John 20:15-17

Jesus *said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing Him to be the gardener, she *said to Him, “Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away.” Jesus *said to her, “Mary!” She turned and *said to Him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher). Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’”​

Where was Jesus? In a garden. What does "paradise" mean? A garden. Did Jesus rise up to meet the thief in heaven? No. he had not yet ascended to the Father.

My understanding of Jesus' word to the thief is informed and colored by what actually happened as recorded in the gospel accounts.

My response is based on the Fact that God became flesh and the thief was with God in Paradise that day. If you think God was stuck in a grave that is a poor perception of God.

Your response is limited to the heat of the emotional moment.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Every single verse that has the word sheol in it.

Name one verse where it says that Satan and the lost experience God's punishment. Perhaps you are thinking of Daunte's Inferno?

 

[CadyandZoe]

My response is based on the Fact that God became flesh and the thief was with God in Paradise that day. If you think God was stuck in a grave that is a poor perception of God.

Your response is limited to the heat of the emotional moment.

"My response was based on scripture. According to the Bible, after Jesus and the thief were taken down from the cross, they were placed in a tomb and remained there for the day. Later, when Jesus was raised from the dead, Mary saw him and tried to hug his legs and feet. However, Jesus told her that he had not yet ascended to the Father, indicating that he had not yet gone to heaven or God's paradise. Therefore, it can be concluded that neither Jesus nor the thief went to heaven or hell, and there is no evidence to support the claim that Jesus preached to those in hell."

 

[Timtofly]

Name one verse where it says that Satan and the lost experience God's punishment. Perhaps you are thinking of Daunte's Inferno?

In Luke 16, Jesus describes sheol as being the place of torment. And sheol has always been considered the place God sends created beings as punishment.

"And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice."

Jonah was not even in sheol, but a fish, yet he likened the fish to being punished by God. When you say punishment I assume you mean pain, sorrow, suffering, and torment.

Do you think sheol is just a luxurious hotel with full accommodations, free of charge?

"But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

 

[Timtofly]

"My response was based on scripture. According to the Bible, after Jesus and the thief were taken down from the cross, they were placed in a tomb and remained there for the day. Later, when Jesus was raised from the dead, Mary saw him and tried to hug his legs and feet. However, Jesus told her that he had not yet ascended to the Father, indicating that he had not yet gone to heaven or God's paradise. Therefore, it can be concluded that neither Jesus nor the thief went to heaven or hell, and there is no evidence to support the claim that Jesus preached to those in hell."

No verse states the thief was buried in the same place as Jesus. That is projecting your opinion into Scripture.

I agree that the physical body of Jesus had not physically ascended to heaven.

God is always in heaven, on the earth, and even in sheol, omnipresent. That is Scripture: Psalms 139:7-12

"Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee."

You are still equating this kingdom, as merely a garden tomb. Paradise is that heavenly kingdom, the place one can physically enter, because the Cross did open up Paradise. Unless you deny humans physical access to heaven, you are saying the thief could not physically go until three days later. Some claim that physical access will only be available at the Second Coming which is now over 1994 years later. So some think the thief has not even entered Paradise yet. God said the thief would enter Paradise that day, that is entering the heavenly kingdom. God did not say in any verse the thief was buried in the same garden as Jesus was buried.


Luke 23:43 N-DMS
GRK: ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ
NAS: to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.
KJV: me in paradise.
INT: in Paradise

2 Corinthians 12:4 N-AMS
GRK: εἰς τὸν παράδεισον καὶ ἤκουσεν
NAS: was caught up into Paradise and heard
KJV: into paradise, and
INT: to Paradise and heard

Revelation 2:7 N-DMS
GRK: ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ τοῦ θεοῦ
NAS: which is in the Paradise of God.'
KJV: in the midst of the paradise of God.
INT: in the paradise of God

Strong's Greek 3857
3 Occurrences

παραδείσῳ — 2 Occ.
παράδεισον — 1 Occ.

According to Bible hub the same word and meaning is used in Luke and Revelation. Paul uses a slightly different spelling. Even if you go by context, the question was still about heavenly Paradise, the heavenly kingdom. It was not about being remembered when Jesus was placed in a tomb in a garden. Only the body of Jesus was placed in the tomb. The spirit and soul were not placed in the tomb. The thief's body would never enter Paradise, but return to dust. So unless the soul of the thief, which you declare cannot even exist, did not enter Paradise that day, the thief himself will never enter Paradise at any point in time. According to you the thief stopped existing that day, and literally went no where. The body stopped being the thief, the moment the thief physically died hours later, and started returning to dust, one molecule at a time. That body will never be anything more than dust. God said the thief would be in Paradise that day, the same Paradise of God mentioned in Revelation 2:7.

 

[Zao is life]

Of course, John does not say the first resurrection is of those martyred physical flesh! John isn't stupid! He understands there shall be none bodily resurrected before an hour coming, when the last trumpet sounds, that TIME shall be no longer! Why would John say they have been physically resurrected then they will be counted as those who HAVE LIVED and REIGNED with Christ in TIME, since John knows there will be NO physical resurrection of the physically DEAD until the end of TIME??? Like I said John is not stupid! That's why John writes he saw the "souls" which indicates alive or having life, AFTER they physically lived and reigned with Christ in TIME, alive in heaven after physical death.

In Rev 10 it makes no difference to write "there should be time no longer" or "there shall no more be delay"! They both mean the same thing. That the mystery of God should be fulfilled, and that is that Gentiles would be the last to come into the Kingdom of God and in this way time/delay should be no longer for this earth because Gentiles have completed the Kingdom of God.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So do you admit then that the text says that they lived in their bodies, and reigned with Christ for a thousand years after their bodily resurrection, and after the 7th trumpet had sounded, or do you continue to change the text to suit a millennium that begins before it began?

The rest of your doctrine when you talk about of "spirit bodies in heaven" or "spiritual bodies in heaven" in a "spiritual kingdom in heaven" is simply false and seeks to nullify the full meaning of the hope of the resurrection of the body from the dead, which is an integral part of the gospel, making you a false teacher of whoever you teach it to.

Adam was created to live on earth, in a body. A human being is composed of a body [sōma], soul [psychḗ], and spirit [pneûma].

The Bible does not speak of the human spirit as having its own body, separate to the body that God created Adam with, which all humans have inherited from Adam. Nor will the human spirit have a body again after the death of the person (when your body dies), other than the body that the Bible tells us will be raised from the dead through Jesus the Messiah's death and resurrection from the dead:
​

"It is sown a body, natural [Greek: sōma psychikós],
it is raised a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós].
There is a body, natural [sōma psychikós],
and there is a body, spiritual [sōma pneumatikós]."
-- 1 Corinthians 15:44.​

The word psychikós is from the word psychḗ (soul / life / mind).
The word pneumatikós is from the word pneûma (spirit / breath).

In the Greek text the word sōma (body) precedes the words psychikós (natural) and pneumatikós (spiritual) each time in the above verse, making it clear that it's the body of humans, not the spirit of humans being spoken about, and the above verse is the only verse in the entire New Testament that speaks of a spiritual body. There is no talk in the entire New Testament of a "spirit body" that is another body, separate to the body (sōma) of humans.

Humans were not created to "go to heaven when we die", to "live" in heaven. That is not, and has never been God's purpose: In the ancient Greek language that the New Testament was written in, the words for "alive | living" (záō), and "life" (zōḗ) always imply life in the body, whether the verse or passage is talking about eternal life or not,

and with reference to being alive in the body, the Greek uses the word psychḗ interchangeably in reference to the life, the mind and the soul of an individual | individuals, while at the same time making a clear distinction (which is consistent throughout the New Testament) between the body [sōma] and the soul [psychḗ]. The New Testament also speaks about the spirit/s [pneûma] of individuals.

Therefore in the New Testament you will find a distinction made between the body (the flesh), the mind (life|soul), and the spirit.
​

MANKIND'S LOSS OF IMMORTALITY
and THE GOOD NEWS​

According to the New Testament, the only Man who is immortal | has eternal life in Himself, is Jesus, our Messiah.

"As it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one." "They are all gone out of the way, they have together become unprofitable, there is none that does good, no, not one." "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." Romans 3:10, 12, 23.

The good news is that through Jesus Christ and His bodily resurrection from the dead God imparts eternal life to us, and has made it possible for us to live forever in the body once again even if we have failed, and do fail to always do what is right and good in God's sight.

Through faith in Jesus, we can live in the confident assurance and knowledge that God can (and does) make humans alive again [zōopoiéō] so that we can once again be alive in the body.

-- "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth [anagennáō] into a living [záō] hope (hope of living forever in the body) THROUGH the bodily resurrection [anástasis] of Jesus Christ from the dead". -- 1 Peter 1:3.

When Jesus' friend Lazarus (whom Jesus raised from the dead), had died, Lazarus' sister, Martha, exclaimed to Jesus when He arrived,

John 11:21-27
-- Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But I know that even now, whatever You will ask of God, God will give You. --
​

[Note: The words "of the body" added to the word resurrection, and the words "in the body" added to the word live in the quote below do not appear in the English text, but are implied in the meaning of the Greek words they are translated from, as shown in the pages linked to in the quote]:

-- Jesus said to her, Your brother shall rise again [anístēmi]. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall rise again [anístēmi] in the resurrection of the body [anástasis] at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the Resurrection of the body [anástasis] and the (eternal) life [zōḗ]! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live in the body [záō]. And whoever lives in the body [záō] AND believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

She said to Him, Yes, Lord, I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who has come into the world. --

Note: The word záō used in John 11:25 and 26 means LIVING IN THE BODY.
​

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That's the good news, but the obvious question is, why do our bodies still die then, and what happens to our souls (psychḗ) and spirit after the death of our bodies?

The Bible does not say that our souls and spirits cease to exist when we die. But we are not alive after the death in our bodies in the BIBLICAL sense of being alive [záō].

The human spirit does not have another body, separate from the human body that dies. Your false doctrine that you keep mentioning about "spirit bodies" seeks to nullify the full meaning of the hope of the resurrection, which is an integral part of the gospel.​