Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
We discussed this "latter rain" theology back in April.Dear Ronald David Bruno,
You said:
I don't know where you get your theology - it's off. Rev. 19 is during the Great Tribulation. The church has been raptured by this time period in this chapter.
I get my understanding from scripture. The "great tribulation" occurs to a believer when they are under Satan's deceptions and have fallen prey to the spirit of anti-Christ. The great tribulation is not some future time period that occurs out in the world. Christ's words are spirit and the spiritual happens within a person. Also, the "ends of the ages" ( what Christ was teaching in Mat 24), is referring to when a believer is converted. That's why Paul said this:
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
100% of "end time" prophecy is teaching about the "signs of the times" that lead up and include when Christ returns to an Elect believer with the Latter Rain of the Spirit to convert them. The end-time events DO NOT happen out in the world at the literal end of the age. Christ comes quickly to all of His Elect and not at the literal end of the age. When He comes to His Elect, He brings them their free gift of salvation:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
You said:
The Church consists of already born again believers, in Christ and there is no condemnation.
Yes, that is true of converted believers who have received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. However, all the 2,000 plus denominations/sects of Christianity in the world are made up of believers who are not converted. They have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. Because the Early Rain does not heal the spiritual blindness of a new believer, they have become deceived by Satan and have become apostate. They are experiencing their time of "great tribulation". If the apostate believer is not one of the chosen, they will die in their sins and be condemned to the Lake of Fire upon their resurrection. They are the "many" who are called but not chosen. Only a chosen "few" will receive the Latter Rain and be converted prior to their death.
You said:
Transformation is not triggered by chastisement. God chastises believes during our lives when we get out of line but this does not having anything to do with the gift of salvation. And we have nothing to donwith the Lake of Fire!
The transformation of the carnal mind into the mind of Christ requires "truth" and the chastisement of Christ. Christ only gives "truth" and chastisement to Elect believers who have been converted. When a person is converted, their heart is changed. From having a new heart, their carnal mind is transformed into the mind of Christ. It is a slow spiritual process.
The Lake of Fire is for judging and destroying the children of the Devil. But since the Elect are born as a child of God PRIOR to being judged in the Lake of Fire, they do not experience God's wrath in the Lake of Fire. However, for the condemned of the final age, they will experience wrath because they are still a child of the Devil during their time of judgment. But prior to the child of the devil's destruction though, Christ will have mercy upon the lost person and give them the free gift of salvation. The new child of God will then be born and come out of the Lake of Fire, leaving only the child of the devil there to be destroyed.
You said:
We do not suffer to be born again, we believe that Jesus died fir our sins was buried and rise from the dead on the third day. Jesus is the Author of our faith, it is a gift.
These scriptures say differently:
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Rev 7: 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they (the Elect) which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
You asked:
What Church did you go to???
I have not associated with any church since I was converted in 2005 (I was 44 years old at that time). At the time of my conversion, I found that all the church denominations/sects of Christianity in the world are apostate just as Paul said they would be (Acts 20:29-31). They all mix "works" with faith. After my conversion, my fellowship has been with my wife, the few converted believers I have met online, and with Christ & His Father.
Before I was converted, I grew up in the Church of Christ denomination. As an young adult, I attended a Baptist church and then onto a couple of non-denominational churches. Then, in the year and a half prior to my conversion, I attended a Pentecostal church.
All the churches that I attended were apostate churches - but this makes sense because I was an apostate believer.
I will post my conversion testimony in a second post which will explain what happened to my wife and I at that time.
Joe
Post in thread 'The Only Way We Will Ever Agree' The Only Way We Will Ever Agree
I have received the Holy Spirit 33 years ago. I pray and like all Christians, God answers our prayers. He loves us, teaches us, guides into all truth, edifies us, speaks, counsels, bears witness to and glories Christ, gives gifts, baptized us, makes promises, fellowships with us, sanctified us, justifies us, convicts us of sin and transforms us into the likeness of Christ.Conversion Testimony of Joe & Julie Edwards
In the year 2000, I relocated to Fayetteville, Arkansas with my wife and three sons. We visited many churches during those first years there but we never could find any that seemed to have a real love for the Lord. After our own personal study of the scripture, we decided that we wanted to be baptized in the name of Jesus instead of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit as we had done many years ago. We could not find any churches that would baptize this way until we talked to a friend who went to a Oneness Pentecostal church. They agreed to baptize us in the name of Jesus so we decided to go there and be baptized, even though we were from a Church of Christ/Baptist type background...
Now from scripture, we have come to understand what just happened in both our lives; the Lord had come to us a second time, baptized us with His Spirit ...
This verse applies as to why she ceased receiving "words":
1Cor 13:8 Charity never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Like many Christians, we all have wonderful stories of how Gid worked in our lives, messages He gives. I believe all the guidance and messages can be found in scripture ( though the personal guidance and stories of every Christian could not be contained in billions of books if ever they were written). For me, the Bible is sufficient and so I hold onto His Word.
Thanks for sharing your experience. My testimony would take too long.
*** Universalism is a false doctrine! Not all will he saved.
Our Father gives Jesus Only HIS Sheep, who hear His voice. Not all are His sheep. He made that clear with the Pharisees, whom He called a brood of vipers ( Satan is considered a venomous viper). Jesus condemned them: Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Matt. 23:33
Hell is the Lake of Fire.
The wages of sin is death!
We all suffer physical death, but there is the second death, destruction of both body and soul.
And these shall go away into everlasting (age-lasting or age- during) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matt. 25:46
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