The Wheel of Life

[Ronald Nolette]

These passages are describing those who are not reborn.

Of course!

God's mercy and compassion are only to those who choose to be saved. He already knows who will and will not believe, even before fashioning the clay (person). He knows most choose to be unbelievers when He is fashioning them in the womb (clay).

Well I have given you severral vers4es that explicitly say iot is God who chooses first.

Please cite some Scriptures that show that god chooses someone on the basis of their fist choosing God.

God makes people according to the way He knows they are going to choose when He is fashioning them.

So cite Scripture that says that!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So in that case.. @Netchaplain ..... .and because Calvinism does not teach that God chooses FAMILIES, but only some who are "elected.."
Then that means that John Calvinism, is teaching that God didnt choose some of your familiy for His Heaven, @Netchaplain .

You really need professional help! You are obsessed with Calvin and seems you cannot post on any thread without having a tantrum about Calvin or TULIP.

 

[Behold]

You really need professional help! You are obsessed with Calvin and seems you cannot post on any thread without having a tantrum about Calvin or TULIP.

You just tried to talk to me about Calvinism, in your last 3 posts, on 3 different Threads, as you chase me around.

I would say that based on the evidence you have just presented that you are one in dire need @Ronald Nolette

 

[Netchaplain]

Dear Netchaplain,
No person can "discover" the knowledge of the truth while they are still in their natural state they have from birth:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Let's just say "after they receive the knowledge the knowledge of the truth" and continued to willfully sin, which means they learned of the knowledge of the truth, but chose not to follow it.

 

[Behold]

Let's just say "after they receive the knowledge the knowledge of the truth" and continued to willfully sin, which means they learned of the knowledge of the truth, but chose not to follow it.

All born again believers....who indulge in carnal behavior, that you refer to as "sin"... , do it willfully.

Or they lie, willfully, and say..>>>>"well, it was an accident that i watched that soft porn movie on Netflix"

Stuff like that... they do it WILLFULLY< every time.

I use to talk about "Game of Thrones" and i could hear the Christians online, trying to hide .

Why? Because that show was rape and incest, "right after the commercial break" for 7 yrs, it was on, and Christian's worldwide were addicted to it... ."willfully".

 

[Netchaplain]

Do you believe that God has pre-destined some to not be chosen as the "elect"?

Understanding God's omniscience answers much of this issue. If God is forming one in the womb whom He knows is going to choose not to believe in Him, He is "fitting" him as a "vessel of wrath" (Rom 9:22). Don't know how else to share this, and it's ok if we have a different opinion about this.

 

[Netchaplain]

All born again believers....who indulge in carnal behavior, that you refer to as "sin"... , do it willfully.

Those who "willfully sin" are unbelievers, regardless of what the claim. Those who are believers will always "desire" to please God once they are reborn (Phl 2:13).

 

[Behold]

in Him, He is "fitting" him as a "vessel of wrath"

Thats Calvinism.

God does not choose the unborn, to end up in the lake of Fire.
God does not "fit"anyone to be a Christ rejector that is what pre-destines them to Hell, as Calvin teaches.

 

[Behold]

Those who "willfully sin" are unbelievers, regardless of what the claim.

You claim that you have never chosen to sin, to commit even one carnality by choice.... even once since you say you became a believer?

Be careful, as that is not reality.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Let's just say "after they receive the knowledge the knowledge of the truth" and continued to willfully sin, which means they learned of the knowledge of the truth, but chose not to follow it.

Dear Netchaplain,
The knowledge that Paul is referring to is the knowledge that Christ performs all the necessary work of saving a person. With this knowledge, the foundational belief of "repentance from dead works" is laid (Heb 6:1). When a person believes that they must add to Christ's work for their salvation, they are committing the sin that leads to death which will cause them to fall from grace (Gal 5:4).

Paul was not talking about willingly sinning in general terms. Paul was talking about a very specific sin - one which He fully explained earlier in Hebrews chapter 10.

Paul also explained that sin in Hebrews chapter 6. In that chapter, Paul mentions it has the sin that causes a believer to "fall away":

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

In contrast to the sin that leads to death, Paul discusses sin in general terms in Romans chapter 6. No where in that chapter does Paul ever mention that a believer will lose their salvation for continuing in those sins. In that chapter, Paul also explains how the Old Man (a spiritual symbol for the carnal mind), who causes a believer to sin, dies. Paul says it is a slow death like being crucified on the cross with Christ.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our Old Man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Also, John the Baptist is a "type" for the Old Man. John made this statement below and it applies to the slow nature of transforming the carnal mind (Old Man) into the mind of Christ:

John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

This verse below also applies:

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments (chastisements of Christ) are in the (New) Earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

In case you are not aware, the New Earth is a spiritual symbol for the new spiritual nature that the Holy Spirit gives a believer. The Old (Natural) Earth is a spiritual symbol for man's carnal nature.

It is from the New Earth that the chastisements of Christ come into the believer's mind. When those judgments are complete, the believer's carnal mind will have been transformed into the mind of Christ.

Also, the Old Man’s time of judgment coincides with the maturing process of the new child of God.

As the new child of God matures (increases) from consuming bread and New Wine (knowledge of the truth), the judgment which comes from this new knowledge will decrease the influence of the Old Man. When this process is fully completed, the believer's carnal mind will be transformed into the mind of Christ:

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the Old Man (carnal mind) with his deeds; 10 And have put on the New Man (mind of Christ), which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

After the death of the Old Man, the believer will be a fully matured son of God.

Joe

 

[Netchaplain]

You claim that you have never chosen to sin, to commit even one carnality by choice.... even once since you say you became a believer?

Be careful, as that is not reality.

I appreciate all your replies, but it's obvious that we have different understandings of many Scriptures passages, but of course that's ok.

 

[Netchaplain]

After the death of the Old Man, the believer will be a fully matured son of God.

Hi, and thanks for your replies! Concerning the "old man," we died to it (Rom 8:9), but it is not dead to us. It continues to attempt to tempt us to want to sin and this is where the testing is; but those reborn only want to "please God" (Phl 2:13). We can't have the old man and not sin at all.

Nowhere does Scripture say the old man is dead, just crucified (Rom 6:6), to restrain it from having "dominion" over the believer (Rom 6:14). Dominion is the old man's ability to cause one to desire sin, so the believer doesn't desire sin.

It still causes us to sin, but now it's not intentional and the sins of the saint are more so impulsive, e.g. not "presumptuous" (Num 15:30), like anger, jealousy, etc., nothing like willful sin--big difference. I don't know any Christians that intentionally sin!

God bless!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

An unsaved individual will not choose God in and of themself.

Scripture says God draws all men to Himself. Obviously some resist and reject that calling up until death.
God enables man to come to Him and he resists until he finally is persuaded or he goes the other way and lives in darkness.

Romans 1:20 says "man is without excuse".
Given all creation and what God has revealed to them in nature and within their souls, man is without excuse.
"... men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:18-21

IF any man was not drawn to God (and let's reiterate Jesus' factoid that "no man can come to the Father unless He first draws them"), and knowledge about God was not manifest in him (God's invisible or visible attributes) were not shown to him - then he would have an excuse. He could say you made me this way ... you didn't reveal yourself to me in any way... so I'm not guilty of anything ... it is not my fault I don't know you or worship you!.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Hi, and thanks for your replies! Concerning the "old man," we died to it (Rom 8:9), but it is not dead to us. It continues to attempt to tempt us to want to sin and this is where the testing is; but those reborn only want to "please God" (Phl 2:13). We can't have the old man and not sin at all.

Nowhere does Scripture say the old man is dead, just crucified (Rom 6:6), to restrain it from having "dominion" over the believer (Rom 6:14). Dominion is the old man's ability to cause one to desire sin, so the believer doesn't desire sin.

It still causes us to sin, but now it's not intentional and the sins of the saint are more so impulsive, e.g. not "presumptuous" (Num 15:30), like anger, jealousy, etc., nothing like willful sin--big difference. I don't know any Christians that intentionally sin!

God bless!

Dear Netchaplain,

Before I respond, I want to define certain "spirit" words along with their synonymous terms:

Old Man: Carnal mind. Called the head and also the "man of sin" after it has been made "worse than the first"). Typed by Adam.
Woman: Carnal spiritual nature. Also called the wicked heart/Old Earth/Harlot/Great Harlot/Old Jerusalem/Sodom/Damascus, etc. Typed by Eve.

When Adam and Eve were married, they become "one flesh". This "one flesh" consisted of a carnal mind and a carnal spiritual nature.

You said:
It (the Old Man) still causes us to sin, but now it's not intentional and the sins of the saint are more so impulsive, e.g. not "presumptuous" (Num 15:30), like anger, jealousy, etc., nothing like willful sin--big difference. I don't know any Christians that intentionally sin!

I have heard this argument many times before about there being two types of sin (non-intentional and intentional). However, this belief is not valid and has no scriptural support. If a believer knows something to be sinful and they do it anyway, their sin is intentional. Jealousy or anger are no different, because like all sin, they both originate from the heart and enter the mind which acts upon it.

To be able to stop sinning, our heart must be changed. For our heart to be changed, we must be converted. The work of conversion is solely the responsibility of Christ to perform - and He is the one who chooses when it will be done, not the individual. In this age, Christ is only converting the Elect who have been chosen for this blessing from the foundation of the world. No one else will be saved in this age.

Conversion occurs after Christ has given a person BOTH the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, immediately followed by judgment. The judgment portion of conversion is what removes and destroys our carnal spiritual nature/Great Harlot/wicked heart (shown in Mat 24:41 & Rev chapter 18). The Apostles experienced their conversion on the Day of Pentecost and Paul experienced his conversion after being in Damascus for three days.

After a person is converted, they are a new spiritual creation. However, since the carnal mind is not destroyed at the time of conversion, it still has many sinful habits and beliefs that must be judged and removed. That is the purpose of Christ's chastisements and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (when truth is fed to the believer). Those chastisements and knowledge of the truth come from the person's new heart/new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit (Isa 26:9). This spiritual process is slow (like crucifixion) and takes time to be fully complete. It is the same spiritual process that matures a child of God into a perfect man, full of age (Eph 4:13, James 3:2 & Heb 5:14). After it is complete, the person will only walk by the Spirit and will no longer sin. They will then be like Christ.

Again, the "willful sin" is when a believer mixes their own works with faith. It is the ONLY sin that leads to death because it removes a believer from being covered by the blood of Christ under the New Covenant. Man's "works" are what the Old Covenant is based upon and when a believer returns to works, they return to the Old Covenant. When a person is under the Old Covenant, they are still under the Law.

Scripture teaches that a person will only come out from being under the Law after they have received BOTH the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (taught by the story of the woman taken in adultery). That is why believers who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit remain under the Law. They always return to their dead works - even if it is only their belief in their free will ability to "receive" the gift of salvation. When a believer has accepted this false doctrine of free will, they believe that they are smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who reject Christ. But the truth is, they only accepted Jesus as their "Lord" because Christ chose to give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. And likewise, for those who reject Christ, it is only because Christ chose NOT to give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. In Christ' eyes, a fallen away believer (back to works) is "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43:45) and will receive a more difficult judgment in the Lake of Fire than the unbelievers.

Joe

 

[Behold]

I appreciate all your replies, but it's obvious that we have different understandings of many Scriptures passages, but of course that's ok.

There are vessels "fitted for destruction".....

That is everyone who is never born again, and dies. This does not include babies or small children.

So, John 3:36, says that God's Wrath is on unbelievers.. So THEY are the "vessels fitted", and waiting.

This is every unbeliever.......They are all the "vessels"... It was once you and me....... We were "fitted", but we didnt end up there...because we gave our faith in Christ to GOD..
Those "Vessels fitted, never do.. and their END, is pre-determined, based on their CHOICE to Reject Christ and die never born again.

See, the confusion is.... when a teaching arrives that teaches that some people are destined to be those vessels.. and have no choice.
So, THAT is where the lie, comes into play..

How to get past that deception if a person is a Calvinist?

It like this.. There is a hell, and there is a pre-determined situation that is "ready to go", regarding everyone who dies as a Christ rejector, never born again.
So, everyone who decides to die in unbelief.......they are pre-destined to become the "Vessels fitted".. and that is not because God decided that for them to become........Its because there is a pre-determined outcome that awaits any and all who die, never born again.
So, because they chose that...they CHOSE to die never trusting in Christ........then God has a pre-determined outcome waiting for them, when they die.

The NT refers to them as "Vessels fitted".

So, when we read "vessels fitted"... that is simply another way of saying.. "Eternally Damned"..... "going to hell", then "the lake of Fire".
Its the same pre-destined outcome, that awaits every unbeliever who is currently breathing, that THEY destined upon themselves... by their unbelief..
But if they turn to Jesus, then they stop being the "vessel fitted" and become the "new creation In Christ".

That Pre-determined DAMNATION, that is defined as "vessel fitted" , is simply.. "you are going to hell, because you never trusted in Christ"...

That is all there is to it......yet the NT has... some nomenclature, connected to.. it.

Like.. "The 2nd Death".. .and "Vessels fitted for Destruction".. and "Under the Wrath of God". "Eternal Damnation"

Those are just phrases that really just mean....""""You are damned to Hell, because you chose to die in unbelief, never borm again".... .and Just like going to Heaven is the Pre-destined outcome, of FAITH IN CHRIST.. then going to Hell, as a "vessel fitted" that is the 2nd Death...is the predetermined outcome of choosing to die never born again... as a Christ Rejector.

Where Calvin stepped in and made it a "doctrine of Devils" is when he changed the REASON a person goes to Heaven or Hell.

So, instead of the Person, having that Choice, Calvin decided that God made that choice for them, (pre-determined) and THAT is the heresy.. that is the "doctrine of Devils"..
Calvin lays the blame on GOD, regarding why someone goes to heaven or hell.. and the Bible lays the Blame, on "FREE WILL", as you decided.

And just to try to deny that the Person chooses to be the "Saint" or the "Vessel Fitted"....... you have TULIP< that steps in and says that Total Depravity extends to the WILL... which is an attempt to get rid of Free Will, as without that Calvinism and Tulip can't BLAME GOD, and that is what it does most of All.
Its designed to get a person to BLAME GOD for everything.., as that is what a Calvinists does. He first blames God, if he becomes sick.. He first blames God if His kid is murdered. He first blames God for ALL THE BAD.........that ever happens.
And why?
Because that allows The DEVIL to become BLAMELESS and that makes Him very well pleased.. and that is why He created Calvinism and TULIP and that is why its Probably His Masterpiece, regarding "doctrines of Devils' other then the "Cult of the Virgin", or "ISLAM."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You just tried to talk to me about Calvinism, in your last 3 posts, on 3 different Threads, as you chase me around.

I would say that based on the evidence you have just presented that you are one in dire need @Ronald Nolette

Well youy can think what you wish fraud, but I am not the one who is posting anti Calvin vomit on threads first without any support from Gods Word. You are a fraud.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Scripture says God draws all men to Himself. Obviously some resist and reject that calling up until death.
God enables man to come to Him and he resists until he finally is persuaded or he goes the other way and lives in darkness.

Romans 1:20 says "man is without excuse".
Given all creation and what God has revealed to them in nature and within their souls, man is without excuse.
"... men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:18-21

IF any man was not drawn to God (and let's reiterate Jesus' factoid that "no man can come to the Father unless He first draws them"), and knowledge about God was not manifest in him (God's invisible or visible attributes) were not shown to him - then he would have an excuse. He could say you made me this way ... you didn't reveal yourself to me in any way... so I'm not guilty of anything ... it is not my fault I don't know you or worship you!.

YOu have this backwards. NO man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws them.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Then if the Father causes us to come to Jesus, Jesus says:

verse 37: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

So if we come to Jesus, He will not reject us, and we cannot come to Jesus until the Father causes us to come.

Being drawn is not the same as coming to Jesus. Since the birth of the church at Pentecost there have been untol billions who have never heard the name Jesus once or what He did at Calvary- they have had 0 opportunity to be saved or come to Jesus or even be drawn!

 

[Behold]

Well youy can think what you wish

The Devil is the "god of this world"..
He's in charge of the "world System".
He's the reason that "Globalism" is a universal mind set.

Calvinism, which is a product of Satanism, essentially teaches that God is causing you to suffer, and The Devil is on Vacation.
This is how effectively the Devil has inundated Calvinism + Tulip's doctrine into mainstream Christianity, as well as everywhere else.

Calvinism + TULIP will get you killed.

How?

Its because Calvin and TULIP, will have you lost inside a twisted hyper religious mindset that has you believing... "It was all meant to be". 'It was predestined to happen to me"...

Here are some Examples of CALVIN + TULIP... = Killing Christians :

1.) "Did your wife die of Cancer'? "Yeah, it was meant to be". "God gave it to her to test her faith, and to make her more like Jesus"...

2.) "Did someone burn down your business"? "Yeah, it was all a part of God's plan, as he wants me to live in my car, and cry myself to sleep, so that by carrying this Cross, im learning how to be a better person and more Christ-Like".

3.) "What did the doctor tell you"... ""He said that the painful knot on my knee is Tuberculosis of the Bone, and that there is no cure"... ""But that's ok, as ive had a good life, all 22 yrs.. .and im thankful that God found me worthy of this final test to death".


So, what is wrong with all that, READER?

A.) There is no real Christianity in any of it. Its all self inflicted "martyr syndrome".. that is Caused by : CALVINISM + TULIP infection of the mind.

So how does that Get you killed by = Calvinism?
Well, each of those cases, each of those dying TULIP + Calvinists, are going to suffer, and they Believe "" God caused it."", and that is what the Devil wants you to think and do.
The Devil wants you to RECEIVE From Him,... a death sentence, a life sentence...and then you complete it by believing that God is Killing you, or ruining your life to "make you better".

Notice what is missing in their reactions?

1.) Real Christianity, is missing.

Not one of them understands that the DEVIL is their mortal enemy for life....., as its the DEVIL who is the cause of DISEASES.... many times.
So, none of them are attributing to the DESTROYER = The DEVOURER = the Fact that its quite possible that HE IS Killing them.

And what else is wrong with these deceived Calvinist's - TULIP ????

= Where is their PRAYER LIFE?
= Why are they not asking GOD for HEALING... GRACE.....HELP?... ??

= Its because John The Devil Calvin, has convinced them that God is doing this to them, so they can't pray to God for Healing, when John Calvinism + TULIP has them believing that GOD is causing their DEATH as a "blessing" or "pre-destined".

A.) Calvinism will get you Killed.

Dont let it kill you, Reader.

 

[Netchaplain]

Scripture says God draws all men to Himself. Obviously some resist and reject that calling up until death.
God enables man to come to Him and he resists until he finally is persuaded or he goes the other way and lives in darkness.

Hi, and appreciate your reply! The passage that concerns "I will draw all men unto me" is Christ's words speaking about Himself. (Jhn 12:32); and the phrase "all men" is in reference to all kinds of men. It can't be supposed that the call intends everyone, because He doesn't need to draw those He already knows will never come. This will include only the saved, for the called are those who will choose the be right with God; we desire Him, then He calls us to salvation (Rom 8:30; 9:24; 1Th 5:24).

 

[Netchaplain]

There are vessels "fitted for destruction".....

That is everyone who is never born again, and dies. This does not include babies or small children.

So, John 3:36, says that God's Wrath is on unbelievers.. So THEY are the "vessels fitted", and waiting.

Right, it doesn't include children, just adults. There's no way God would send a child to the Lake of Fire if they die as a child. Only if they live long enough to willfully reject God; and He of course already knows all who will choose to be right with Him! Everybody that should be saved will be saved (Jhn 18:9).