Joe, why can't you just go by what the text says in Matthew 24:30 - instead of going off on tangents ?
The two witnessss
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Earburner
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I apologize for the confusion of our discussion. I never saw your post #11 that you said has disappeared.
I am not here to badger you or anyone concerning my beliefs as opposed to someone else's. I was only attempting to bring forward the fact that both John and Jesus are the only Two people who were ever filled with the Holy Spirit at birth.
1. John is the witness to Jesus as the Lamb of God, and
2. Jesus is the witness to who God the Father is.
That right there speaks volumes, especially in the time of their appearance, which was God ordained, according to Zech. 4:11-14.
Edit: if one would examine the gospels more closely, by the mind of Christ, they would agree that neither John or Jesus are dead and in their graves. Mat. 27:51-54
John 11
[25] Jesus said unto her, I am the [First] resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
[26] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
I thank you for our discussion. Hopefully in our future discussions, they will be more enjoyable and rewarding in the Lord.
In His Peace,
Earburner
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Dear Douggg,
I am not going off on tangents. You simply do not understand that Christ teaches the New Covenant truths in His spiritual language.
Christ teaches in this spiritual language to keep His truth concealed from everyone but His converted Elect. Because unconverted "babes" (Spirit of Faith/Early Rain only) are spiritually blind, they will NOT be able to understand Christ's spiritual teachings of the New Covenant. Why does Christ do this? Because Christ wants the babes to learn to trust Him for everything in their lives - and that especially includes their understanding of the truth and their salvation.
Christ is the only one who can teach a person "truth" and He is the only one who can do all the necessary works for their salvation. Mankind has no ability to contribute anything. Mankind is totally at the mercy of Christ to do it for them.
Christ is the one who gives a person their faith in Him. Christ is the one who causes them to accept Him as "Lord" and to make a confession of faith. Christ did this work in them through the Early Rain of the Spirit/Spirit of Faith that He freely gave to them. And He gave it to them WITHOUT their asking for the gift and without their permission. It truly was a free gift. This is what Paul received on the Damascus Road and is what made Paul a "babe".
However, the Early Rain of the Spirit/Spirit of Faith will not heal the new believer's spiritual blindness, nor will it destroy their carnal spirit which made them carnally minded. They will remain unconverted. However, the Spirit of Faith will give the person faith in Christ and certain spiritual gifts - but since they remain spiritually blind, they will only be able to see Christ in a carnal way (physically and outwardly). That is the way you are presently seeing Christ.
The prophecy of the Two Witnesses is one of the many places in scripture where Christ teaches how He saves one of His Elect. The prophecy is not about two specific individuals and what they will experience at some place in time. That understanding is a carnal (physical and outward) understanding of the prophecy.
When a person understands the prophecy in a spiritual way, they will see the events described in the prophecy as spiritual events that happen within a person. And since Christ's second coming is a reoccurring spiritual event (is, was and will be coming), they will know that the prophecy applies to all the Elect who must travel the same pathway to their salvation.
Below is where Christ teaches how He heals a person's spiritual blindness. It has two steps to it. If you cannot receive what Christ is teaching below, then you should ask Him for understanding. Christ is the giver of good gifts (the Spirit of Truth) to His sons who ask (Luke 11:9-13).
Mark 8:15 And he charged them, saying, take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod. 16 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, it is because we have no bread. 17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened? 18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve. 20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven. 21 And he said unto them, how is it that ye do not understand?
In the verses above, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on the spiritual language of God's Word - His language:
Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
At this point in time (before they were converted at Pentecost), the disciples had received the Early Rain of the Spirit but had not yet received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain of the Spirit/Spirit of Truth). And because of such, they were still spiritually blind and could not understand the spiritual language of Christ.
Christ ends His comments above by asking the disciples this question: “How is it that ye do not understand?” No response from the disciples is recorded in scripture. However, Christ answers His own question in the very next four verses.
Mark 8:22 And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him. 23 And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. 24 And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking. 25 After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.
Since Christ is the Word of God, He teaches us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did. In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, Christ goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer in type by the healing of a blind man.
In verse 23, Christ leads a blind man out of the city. Once outside the city, Christ places spit on his eyes and touches him with His hands. These actions occur as the blind man is looking down which symbolizes the carnal aspect of His healing. Christ does not have to tell the blind man to look down, the blind man just does it naturally. The spit (water) symbolizes the blind man receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit with its accompanying vision (carnal understanding). This event represents the time when an unbeliever is called to be a saint and is when they will enter the church. With the Early Rain of the Spirit, they have become a babe in Christ (unconverted). In this condition, they must wait for the Lord to return to bring them their salvation/conversion.
After Christ asks the man what he could see, the man looks up and says that he could see men "walking as trees". "Walking as trees" is a spiritual symbol for babes who walk by sight (the flesh, carnal nature) rather than by faith & the Spirit. The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted and could only see Christ carnally. Paul stated that this near-sighted type of understanding will only allow a believer to see "Christ and Him crucified" (1Cor 2:2). This means that the new believer can see Christ's physical work that He did under the Old Covenant, but Christ's spiritual work that He is presently doing under the New Covenant will remain blurred.
This first healing of the blind man reflects the true spiritual condition of a new believer when they first enter the church. At this time, the believer is left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted. They can see a little, but that only opens the door to Satan's carnally based deceptions - deceptions which each new believer will readily accept due to their carnal nature still being in control of them (Mat 12:43-45, Mat 24:24 & Luke 5:39).
For a carnally minded and spiritually blind believer (Spirit of Faith/Early Rain only), the Old Wine still tastes better than the New Wine:
Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desires the new: for he says, The old is better.
The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is solely based on the spiritual works of Christ.
Peter says that this near-sighted condition is the same as being blind:
2Pet 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
Peter makes this statement because the believers to whom he was addressing were mixing their own works with faith. They were still preferring the Old Wine.
In the final verse of the story of the blind man, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again, but as He does, Christ has the man look up instead of down. This second healing represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to a believer. The man’s upward gaze represents the spiritual aspect of the healing in contrast to the carnal aspect when the blind man was looking down at the earth.
From that moment onward, we now know that the blind man is a type for a called AND chosen believer (the Elect) who has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit (James 5:7-8). The man has been given eyes that can see spiritually ("drawn from the breasts" Isa 28:9). From his new ability to understand God's Word, he will come out from Satan's deceptions and will begin walking by faith in Christ. He will be included in the resurrection of the First Fruits and will receive the reward of life during the ages.
Joe
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The topic of this thread is "The two witnesses". It not the "Early Rain and Latter Rain". Start another thread in a more appropriate forum.
The two witnesses are found in Revelation 11:9-13.
Instead of telling me that I don't understand this or that, as @ScottA also does, make a timeline chart of the two witnesses 1260 days of how it fits in the 7years that precede Jesus return.
You misunderstood, my post #11 is still there, its YOUR post that is quoted IN MY post # 11 is what has disappeared. Your post is gone, I just captured it before it disppeared.
You weren't only attempting that Earburner. If you were you were "only attempting" to do that you could have just posted without tagging my post to tailgator simply to pounce on the opportunity to tell me I am somehow wrong in my conclusion. Not only that but mockingly, that my false conclusion (which I never made) can be choked up to this "church-ianity" (as you call it here) which is as you defined as listening to "wisdom of men". But you come at me as if I was a stupid fool who couldnt perceive that your wisdom in this matter come from a much higher place then such "wisdom of men".
And you were not attempting to bring forward that John and Jesus were those only two people ever filled with the Holy Ghost. You were attempting to show that John and Jesus were the two witnesses in revelation simply because of this new discovery you had made. Something I could somehow not perceive because I might be bound by this churchianity (or "wisdom of men" thing).
So finally you have my attention and so I am curious how you make John and Jesus fit as the two witnesses in Revelation. Because in truth, THAT is really what you were trying to pass off on me ("this wisdom of men" follower). You have been dying to to give me what you believe I missed on this, and I asked you twice before, with no answer on this, so I would like to hear from you on this. Unless you have changed your mind and no longer believe Jesus and John are the two witnesses in Revelation, which is fine to change ones mind, I change my mind when someone can show me something more by the scriptures, there is nothing wrong with that.
I would actuallly prefer this Earburner
The gospel is
1 Cr 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
These two witnesses were NOT buried nor suffered that their dead bodies to be put in graves
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where ALSO our Lord WAS CRUCIFIED.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall SEE THEIR DEAD BODIES three days and an half, and SHALL NOT SUFFER THEIR DEAD BODIES to be put IN GRAVES.
Jesus
Matt 27:57 When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58 He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
Mat 27:60 And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed.
The Jews did not allow the bodies to remain on the cross but had them taken down. Jesus was then taken and then buried, whereas the witnesses are NOT suffered that their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Jesus resurrected from the grave with a stone rolled back from it, the two witnesses are not suffered to be put in graves.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
And if your timeline and doctrine is wrong...how would you like one to respond--how should any Christian responded to error in doctrine? Are you beyond reproach, beyond correction?
Dear Douggg,
The topic is about the Two Witnesses who experience the Early and Latter Rains along with them falling away and becoming apostate. The prophecy ends with their conversion. This is what I am discussing. If you have no ability to understand what this prophecy is actually teaching, you should not try and shut down those who do understand it. However, that is what apostate believers usually do:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
As for your understanding of Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy, your understanding of it is just as carnal and in error as your understanding of the Two Witnesses prophecy.
Here is the truth of Daniel's prophecy:
Abraham's covenant was confirmed by Christ when He was baptized by John. This commenced the last 7 years of Daniel's prophecy. Christ was then "cut off" at the cross in the midst of the week. This left 3 1/2 years for Christ to complete all the goals of Dan 9:24. The last 3 1/2 years are now being spiritually completed within each Elect person when they are converted. After the last Elect person is converted, the prophecy will be complete.
The last 3 1/2 years begins for an Elect person when they are given the Early Rain of the Spirit. It ends when they are given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and are converted. The time in between the two Rains of the Spirit was typed by Elijah's 3 1/2 years of drought. This time period (not literal time) is also presented as time, times and a half, 42 months and 1260 days or 3 1/2 days. Anytime you see those spiritual symbols, the scripture is teaching about the spiritual events that happen to an Elect believer between them receiving the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit.
This time period between the Early and Latter Rains applies to the prophecy of the Two Witnesses:
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
When an Elect person is converted, they will become a spiritual Jew. Until that conversion event happens to them, they are spiritual Gentiles who are not heirs of Abraham. When an Elect believer is given the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will still be a spiritual Gentile and will "tread under foot" the outer court and the holy city. Only converted believers who have become spiritual Jews can enter the inner court of the temple.
At this point in the prophecy, the Two Witnesses have received the Early Rain of the Spirit and are spiritual Gentiles. They cannot enter the inner court of the temple. However, this will all change for them when they are given the Latter Rain of the Spirit and are "born again" as a child of God.
These verses apply:
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half (same spiritual symbol as the 42 months) the Spirit of life from God entered into them (second coming of Christ with the Latter Rain), and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
The event described above is the salvation event when Christ returns and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit/Spirit of Truth. It is the same event described in Mat 24:29-31 and is the same event Paul mentions here:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Many of Christ's teachings of the New Covenant apply to the time period between the Early and Latter Rains (last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's prophecy/time of Elijah's drought). The Two Witnesses prophecy is one of those teachings whether you can see it or not.
If you can't receive any of the scriptures I presented above, there is no sense in continuing this discussion with you. You have no choice but to continue waiting for the Lord to return and bring salvation to you (if you are one of the Elect).
Joe
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quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The two witnessss
What are they a witness to?.....and why two?Some groups adopt the title of 'Witnesses'. Have you ever asked them to elaborate on who they claim to be a witness of?
Where in the text of Revelation 11:3-12 does it say the two witnesses become apostate ?
How about sticking to the text of Revelation 11:3-12 and making a timeline chart of the 1260 days of the two witnesses showing how those 1260 days fit in regards to Jesus's return. And post it.
click on my chart to see it in a larger view.
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Make a timeline chart of the 1260 days of the two witnesses showing how those 1260 days fit in regards to Jesus's return. And post it.
Dear Douggg,
You asked:
Where in the text of Revelation 11:3-12 does it say the two witnesses become apostate ?
Here is where:
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Since you understand the teachings of the New Covenant in the same manner as you do the teachings of the Old Covenant (carnally), you see the deaths of the Two Witnesses as being physical deaths. But under the New Covenant, the deaths are spiritual deaths (loss of salvation). Their spiritual death can be caused by only one sin - and that is the "sin the leads to death" (1John 5:16). It is by this sin that Satan deceives and kills the babes in the church. Paul prophesied that this would happen after his death:
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
The sin that leads to death happens when a babe accepts Satan's "another gospel" which mixes man's works (Old Covenant/Old Wine) with the works of Christ (New Covenant/New Wine). The apostate church's Doctrine of Free Will is the foundation for mixing man's works with the works of Christ. When a babe does this mixing, they are trying to serve two masters (Christ and Satan).
The scripture below describes the sin that leads to death:
Prov 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent (Satan), and stingeth like an adder.
Paul describes the sin that leads to death here:
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift (the Early Rain), and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance (from dead works): seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
The Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" and will only allow the new believer (a babe) to taste the "heavenly gift" and the "good word of God". When they start mixing their own works with the works of Christ, they are putting Christ to open shame and will fall from grace.
Paul mentions this sin again below:
Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Circumcision was the "work" of Paul's day that some of the Jewish babes were still believing that they needed to follow. The work that babes in the apostate church follow is that it is necessary for a person to make a "free will" decision to accept Christ. However, carnal mankind has no ability to make a free will decision to accept Christ. A person's faith is a gift from Christ and He gives it to them by giving the person the Early Rain of the Spirit/Spirit of Faith. With the small measure of the Spirit within the person, they will (100% of the time) make a confession of faith when presented the Gospel. Without the Spirit, they would never make a confession of faith.
These verses apply:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
When Christ is ready for a person to have faith and enter the church, He will (by His own choosing) come to them and freely give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The person's "will" plays no part in why they become a believer. But when a babe accepts the false teaching of the Doctrine of Free Will, they will claim the work that Christ did within them as their own work. In other words, they are stealing from Christ. When they do this, they are adding their own works to the works of Christ and are committing the sin that leads to death. This is how Satan killed the Two Witnesses and how Satan has built his apostate church in this world - all 2,000 different denominations/sects who call themselves "Christian".
When a believer accepts Satan's "another gospel" which mixes man's works with the works of Christ, it will cause the person to believe that they do have something to boast about concerning why they are saved. But Paul says this is not true:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Because of the apostate person's belief in "free will", they will think that they are smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who reject Christ. They then use this false belief as the reason for why unbelievers are worthy of the Lake of Fire and why they are not. The apostate believer will say that the unbeliever has no one to blame but themselves. But the truth is, the unbeliever is only an unbeliever because Christ chose not come to them before they died and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit.
But because Christ came to save all mankind, He will not forget about those who remain lost during their time of judgment in the Lake of Fire (this includes apostate believers). When Christ judges them, He will not omit mercy, faith and justice.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Before any of the lost perish (the true penalty of sin) from Christ's judgment, Christ will have mercy upon them. His mercy will come to them as the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit which will give them their faith. This will cause the lost person to be "born again" and become a child of God - just as it did for the Elect. Christ will then gather the newly born child of God to heaven. The child of the devil will remain in the Lake of Fire to perish. This death will satisfy justice.
As for your chart on Daniel's Seventh Week, it has no truth in it.
Prior to my conversion in 2005, I used the teach end-time prophecy in the apostate church I attended. Back then, I would have agreed with most of your chart. But now I can see it for what it is: a carnal understanding of Christ's spiritual teachings.
Joe
The two witnesses will be physically killed because their bodies will lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem. And the world will celebrate over their physical deaths, making merry and exchanging gifts with one another.
And their enemies will see the two witnesses ascend up to heaven in a cloud. Followed by a physical earthquake within the same hour later, with 7000 in Jerusalem physically dying in the earthquake.
Neither I , nor any other Christian, believes the New Covenant in Christ is the same as the Old Covenant of the Law.
The two witnesses will be prophesying and testifying of what is in the New Covenant passages in the bible, commonly referred to as the New Testament.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Many prophecies touch on this subject, but it is Daniel's prophecy that most eludes to the truth. In addition to his other prophecies, Daniel also referred to those time formulas of days, and weeks, and years, simply by eliminating the numbers. But you are stuck on the numbers, so when I tell you that you are looking at it all wrong, I am referring to the same thing he said, that apparently you yourself have not equated in a way that is actually accurate. That is what I have been trying to tell you.
Daniel's numberless equation, was: "a time, times, and half a time" (meaning the same thing as the many numbered prophecies). To the contrary, he did not say, "Make a timeline." And you have been so adamant, I am not sure you even want to know the truth of it, or just want to hear your own assumed brilliance. Meanwhile, you are out in the weeds because you have not, and apparently will not hear the simple truth.
In case you are prepared to get off that high horse--this is the truth of it:
God gave the pattern in the 7 days of creation (--"Before they spring forth I tell you of them.”). Which was a preview of all of time. That, is the "time" in Daniel's numberless equation. Which is divided into 2 "times", the time before Christ from the beginning of time, and the time after Christ until the end of time. All of which is "divided" (as in "half a time") by the dividing of "the light from the darkness", as stated since the beginning.
That is the timeline of time in full--foreshadowed from the beginning and repeated in multiple ways by many prophets after the "confusion of all language" at Babel (--that same confusion of numbers and timelines that you have been stuck in).Dear Douggg,
There is nothing more I can do to try and help you understand. As with all mankind, you must wait on the Lord to heal your spiritual blindness and convert you - and God's Word promises that He will do just that:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe (the Elect). 11 These things command and teach.
Mankind's salvation is the responsibility of Christ to accomplish and He will accomplish it solely by His own "works". For that reason, mankind's salvation is said to be a "free gift" from God. And since Christ cannot fail at anything that He says He will do, the salvation of all mankind is certain to happen.
Joe
An "apostate", the term as used in Christianity, means someone who has fallen away from or departs in their faith, belief, in Jesus, and the gospel of salvation.
I don't think that your former church was an "apostate" church. You may have decided that their eschatology view was wrong. But to call that church an "apostate" church to me is inappropriate.
As far as the subject matter in your posts relating to Earlier Rain and Latter Rain, I suggest you start a thread in a different forum at this site (there are several forums that you might post that topic) - where the topic would be more appropriate to discuss.
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Here is a table I made of all the end times time frames given in the bible. Including those found in the book of Daniel. Daniel recorded what he was told and saw in a number of visions and encounters with angels. No, Daniel did not give instructions to write a book(s) like you did, nor make timeline charts. Nor participate in internet discussions. That Daniel did not give such instructions is irrelevant.
To be able to make timeline charts of the end times, requires study of the bible and much prayer to God asking for His help.
Work on some timeline charts. Perhaps make one that shows the path of events like I did in
my second chart below this table. When you have finished your charts, post them.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Scott, make some timeline charts of end times events like I did and post them.
The two witnesses, the topic of this thread, will prophesy and testify for 1260 days. Show the 1260 days on the charts that you make.
The two witnesses, the topic of this thread, will prophesy and testify for 1260 days. Show the 1260 days on the charts that you make.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
You are a broken record displaying blindness. I have done enough for someone who will not hear.
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