THE Trinity can Now be discussed.

[Ritajanice]

Here’s something to consider (& I hope I’m not going to “rile your feathers” by saying it):

Getting baptized, requires a lot of thought, and making changes.

At one period in time it would have ruffled my feathers, not now my friend , as I’ve grown in spiritual maturity, according to the Spirit who is at work in my heart, growing me into the image of Christ, that is a huge honour to know in one’s spirit that the Holy Spirit is at work in Gods children’s heart/ spirit.....he still has much to teach me as I surrender my will over to him.

We believe differently my friend.

Short commentary....

He has promised to forgive me for my hard heart but has also promised to soften it.” Ezekiel 36:26reveals God's desire towards men, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and you a heart of flesh

God is true to his word....in Jesus Name....Amen!

 

[TheHC]

At one period in time it would have ruffled my feathers, not now my friend , as I’ve grown in spiritual maturity, according to the Spirit who is at work in my heart, growing me into the image of Christ, that is a huge honour to know in one’s spirit that the Holy Spirit is at work in Gods children’s heart/ spirit.....he still has much to teach me as I surrender my will over to him.

We believe differently my friend.

Short commentary....

He has promised to forgive me for my hard heart but has also promised to soften it.” Ezekiel 36:26reveals God's desire towards men, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and you a heart of flesh

God is true to his word....in Jesus Name....Amen!

I only said that - the part in parentheses - because some support infant baptism (infants can’t make decisions); i didn’t know if you supported infant baptism or not.

Peace.

 

[Ritajanice]

I only said that - the part in parentheses - because some support infant baptism (infants can’t make decisions); i didn’t know if you supported infant baptism or not.

Peace.

No, I don’t support an infant becoming Born Again.

I don’t understand decision..as I never chose to become Born Again, I was chosen and predestined to become a child of the most high, it came by supernatural divine heart revelation...= Spirit gives birth to spirit...my spirit was reborn over 33 yrs ago..i continue to grow in Spirit knowledge as I continue to seek God out with all of my heart, he reveals more and more of himself to my spirit.

Born Again are in the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit permanently indwells our spirit.we are Born Again of imperishable/ incorruptible seed.the seed of God is a Living seed...which penetrates our heart/ spirit , it becomes reborn...we then start growing into Jesus image, by the Power who indwells our spirit.

The old man starts to die as soon as our spirit is Born Again..the Spirit is changing me in my heart..not my head..to become more and more like Jesus.

When I first came to this forum I was extremely immature, ask @Aunty Jane she will tell you, I was a loony...I’m nothing like that now, because the Spirit is maturing me and my mind is being renewed...

You and Aunty too imo are very mature in your spirit talk...you ain’t no babies that’s for sure.

Titus 3:5-7: He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

[Aunty Jane]

When I first came to this forum I was extremely immature, ask @Aunty Jane she will tell you, I was a loony...I’m nothing like that now, because the Spirit is maturing me and my mind is being renewed...

You and Aunty too imo are very mature in your spirit talk...you ain’t no babies that’s for sure.

Your relationship with God is yours and yours alone Ritajanice…..no one can tell you what to believe as it’s the heart that determines that. It’s nice that you feel yourself growing in knowledge and finding out things that resonate with you. Having left over hang ups from a traditional church upbringing can be a challenge but allowing God’s word to speak for itself is very liberating. God’s spirit works in many ways.

Thank you for your kind words….

Wishing you God’s wisdom and blessing…..always.

 

[Ritajanice]

Your relationship with God is yours and yours alone Ritajanice…..no one can tell you what to believe as it’s the heart that determines that. It’s nice that you feel yourself growing in knowledge and finding out things that resonate with you. Having left over hang ups from a traditional church upbringing can be a challenge but allowing God’s word to speak for itself is very liberating. God’s spirit works in many ways.

Thank you for your kind words….

Wishing you God’s wisdom and blessing…..always.

Thank you Aunty.,I can tell in my heart that what you spoke to me was sincere and straight from the heart, it’s a pleasure to read the maturity I see in your posts...maturity in your heart/ spirit.,you’re like a breath of fresh air..,,God Bless you Aunty.,

 

[Episkopos]

The one God formula for the Trinity skews the meaning of over a hundred scriptures and the storyline of the Gospels….
And then here are over a hundred scriptural reasons why the one God formula for the Trinity is false.

Note: Feel free to verify all scriptural references in your own favorite translation.
This is a topic that is easy to prove because it connects to so many scriptures, which will be referenced directly and or indirectly through this discussion as well as the obvious storyline of the Gospels. The topic as a whole is interesting because it involves the thoughts and beliefs of the Early Church Fathers and the Ecumenical Councils that eventually influenced Catholic and Protestant beliefs.

Most Christian denominations proclaim a belief in the Trinity, and its existence is certain, it is the details that vary. Some define the Trinity as three persons in one God, some turn the perspective around and believe that the Trinity is one God with three aspects. Some reduce the Trinity to a duo, the Holy Spirit merely being the projection of Yahweh or Yeshua’s spirit...not a God….a spirit, different in substance than Yahweh or Yeshua. Part of this was due to not giving the Holy Spirit a name.

Some definitions of the Trinity…
Baptist definition of the Trinity
We believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God and infinite, intelligent Spirit, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and Earth

Catholics believe in one single God, who made Himself known to the world (revelation) as three separate persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. This is known as the doctrine of the Trinity, and is a fundamental belief for all Catholics.

Pentecostal definition of the Trinity
The doctrine states that there is one God, a singular divine spirit with no distinction of persons….who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This stands in sharp contrast to the doctrine of three distinct, eternal persons posited by Trinitarian theology.

Then there are those that believe Yeshua is the “one” and only God... representing three aspects of God or even Christ being the God that created the Heavens and Earth. Which would pretty much invalidate the entire Old Testament and the Apostle’s Creed, where God the Father is the Creator, or even the concept of God being the Father.

Now this one God formula makes you wonder how God the Father fits in! Oddly enough, the “confusion factor” comes from a “qualifying condition” from the 4th century on, the thinking is if it makes no sense or cannot be understood, that is the qualifying factor that it is of God! This is an interesting topic in itself. Debates over what the Trinity meant, and or what it is, has continued throughout the centuries. The winning point always has been and is, that the Gospels clearly document the presence, actions, communications, and movements, of three persons (Gods). But the most commonly accepted doctrine of the Trinity, is that there are three persons in one God, called God, named God, as if the word God is a name. This is the larger intent and underlying reason for this doctrine of the Trinity, and that is to say “one God” not Gods. Because of this the reasons for and explanation of the errors with the one God formula for the Trinity starts with the removal of Yahweh’s name from the Old Testament. This was the event that set the stage for the one God formula and it started with the removal of God’s name from the Old Testament scriptures. That is to change the name of the Yahweh to God. Rather than “God” representing spiritual position, to change the word God to a proper name. At which point they could manipulate it very easily.

The truth is that God the Father's name at one time appeared around 6,800 times in the Old Testament and He was adamant that He was the only one and no one like Him existed. There are a few words in the OT that refer to Yahweh, like EL and Elohim and at times they referred to locations or holy sites, but they are references not proper names, or they could not say or write them. On the other hand YHWH does refer to the proper name of God the Father and at one time it appeared over 6.800 times in the Old Testament.

The exact pronunciation of Yahweh name is debatable but from around 840 BC on, His name was represented by the Tetragrammaton….YHWH. Then during the Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible (The Septuagint, beginning around 280 BC) they removed the Tetragrammaton and replaced it with the words Lord or God or both. So then during the Ecumenical Councils they could argue that the Trinity was a functional unnamed trio in the Old Testament ….because God was now all their names!
So now the bumper sticker “IN GOD WE TRUST” can mean any god.

The word Trinity is not in the Bible but it was coined by early Christian writers but they did not define the Trinity as three Gods in one person or entity. So why and when was the doctrine of the one God Trinity proposed? The doctrine of the one God Trinity was created by the Ecumenical Councils to settle irreconcilable arguments within the Council on the nature of God the Father and God the Son. Irreconcilable but Emperor Constantine commanded an agreement on this issue.

In and out of the Council, Christians had differing beliefs regarding Yahweh and Yeshua. The big topic was about some seeing a big difference in the character and nature and actions of Yahweh and Yeshua. Which was one of the concerns of the Gnostics. Now modern Christians believe as the Ecumenical Councils and the Roman Catholics believed that Gnostics were heretics and preached false beliefs, and that was correct, but some Gnostic beliefs were gaining popularity with Christians towards the end of the 1st century and beyond. The Gnostics believed that the Old Testament God was either evil or insane. So they believed that Yeshua was the Creator God and God Almighty, essentially the only true God.

Now beliefs are ideas and do not necessary commitment to a particular religion as a whole. And some Gnostic beliefs or similar beliefs were accepted by some “mainstream” Christians. Part of this may have been because of the Gospel of John. John’s writings came out towards the end of the 1st century when Christians were thirsty for more information. Now John’s writings seemed to have a Gnostic flavor. Not that He condemned God the Father but promoted Christ as the Creator God and God Almighty. He also embraced the concept of the Logos which was a Greek belief from 6 centuries prior that described a universal knowledge.

Continued.....

I never posted this before because of the forum rules, but here is a deeper take on the subject.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

After you answer my questions, I’ll answer yours.

I did. You have a view that there is an absence of concept and verses about the Trinity in scripture ( a contradiction as YOU see it) and I disagreed and gave you several. I also wasn't finished with my post when you responded ( accidently posting it before I was done).
Go back and read, there is another whopper in there for you to confound you!

 

[CadyandZoe]

I thought we were only supposed to worship God

We worship the Father and the Son.

 

[RedFan]

We worship the Father and the Son.

Which is the same as worshiping God.

 

[Taken]

This is another validation that the LORD is the only God, the only creator, and it is ridiculous and impossible for his created Son to be him.

Long response, but yet is brief, regarding the whole big picture.

God is Without A Beginning.

He can NOT reproduce an off-spring that is Without A Beginning.

(When you believe something AND convey that belief, You send Your WORD forth out of your mouth, to express YOU, and because YOU believe YOUR WORD, Your SENT WORD continues to Remain IN YOU.
Your WORD IS YOU. In as much as…
Your body is you…
Your soul is you…
Your spirit is you…
Your name is you…
Your blood is you…
Your belief is you…

All of those “things” ARE specific to Your Physical Being.

In contrast…
Your home is yours, but Not You.
Your vehicle is yours, yours but Not You.
Your children are yours, but Not You.

You had a beginning…And your children had a beginning.)

God is Spirit, without Beginning.
God CAN (and Does)…
call things that ARE NOT, AS Though They WERE…

Rom 17:
[17] (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Humans engage in copulation to Reproduce offsprings, Sons and Daughters.

God Calls those thing Which ARE NOT as though They Were….
By DECLARATION.

God DID NOT create A Son.
God DID NOT birth an Offspring.

*God DID open his mouth …Speak His Word.
*God DID send His Word forth, From Heaven, While His Word remained IN Him.
*God DID PREPARE “A” Body For His Word, FOR WHEN God would SEND His Word into The World….To the Lost Tribes of ISRAEL.
*God DID send His Word, In Gods Prepared Body, TO Earth, To a Virgins Womb, Of a Jewish female, Betrothed to Jewish man, Of the House of king David.
* Gods holy servant Angel notified the female of Gods Intent….and She Agreed to serve God in that Manner.
*Her Betrothed ALSO was visited by Gods holy servant Angel who ….And her Betrothed Also Agreed to serve God in that manner.
* For 30 Years, According to MANS LAW, the child Born, IN a Body, Prepared of God…. of that virgin and man, WAS CALLED “the Son of Man”.


* Remembering…WHAT Gods servant Angel TOLD the female Virgin, Before she Agreed…
That the Son born forth from her womb
WOULD BE CALLED The SON of GOD.
*30 years Later..that Son visits John the Baptist and John Baptizes That Sons Body with Water.
AND?
That is the day, the Moment, That Son IS [/B]
Revealed, DECLARED[/B] to Be THE Son of God.

Did God, at that moment Birth A Son? No.
A Human? No.

*What happened at that moment…was God fulling His own Prophecy.
Foretold…
2 Sam 7…1 Chr 17…1 Chr 22
Repeated…
Heb 1:
[5] …. And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?


* Gods Word “a holy thing”…(Luke 1: 35) born of the Virgin.
In a body God Prepared…for His Word…

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

* Gods Word prophecy to be Sent…
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God Named His Word JESUS.
God Declared His Word ON EARTH would be called Son of God.

God ALSO Declared, Humans, who Trust to Believe IN God and the One God sent forth to the Earth, And such humans Declaring Their Heathful True Belief…
Will at that moment…BE DECLARED a son of God… and they forever WITH God and God Forever WITH Them…(ie the osas, premise)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

Dear CadyandZoe,

For God so loved @CadyandZoe and @David in NJ and @Ritajanice that HE sent His ONLY begotten Son to take upon Himself
the worse punishment = for us = what we deserved.

I agree.

No man could of endured the relentless beating that came upon Him.

Incorrect. Jesus is a man who endured it, which is why we admire him.

Be careful here. Remember what John said about the spirit of the antichrist.

HOW WAS HE ABLE TO DO THIS???
WHY DID HE DO THIS???

Would you like to answer your own fundamental questions? I give you the honor.

Is the LORD JESUS CHRIST your SHEPHERD???

Yes.

Have you humbled your heart and bowed your knee and confessed with your heart, OUT LOUD from your mouth
that JESUS CHRIST is your LORD and SAVIOR???

Yes. Many times.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Which is the same as worshiping God.

Granted. But it doesn't follow that since the Father and the Son are both God, they are both deity.

 

[CadyandZoe]

The idea that not over-valuing Christ is a bad thing is absurd.

I'm sure you are right. I'm just not able to articulate why this morning. :)

 

[Taken]

I thought we were only supposed to worship God

If you are worshiping God, you are worshiping the:
…………………..….Lord God Almighty
………………………Son, Father, Holy Spirit

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[RedFan]

Granted. But it doesn't follow that since the Father and the Son are both God, they are both deity.

Then my understanding of "deity" is messed up. God is deity by definition, isn't it?

 

[Wrangler]

He is an eternal being

This is an anti-truth. Jesus died. That's how you KNOW he is not an eternal being.

 

[RLT63]

We worship the Father and the Son.

So do I.

 

[Wrangler]

Omniscience:

Another anti-truth. He admitted not knowing as much as God.

 

[Wrangler]

Omnipotence:

Another anti-truth. Jesus could not even convince people of the truth of what he was saying.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Then my understanding of "deity" is messed up. God is deity by definition, isn't it?

Deity, in my view, indicates and implies all of the qualities of transcendence: eternal, self-existence, simplicity (never changing), all-powerful, all-knowing, ever-present everywhere, and creator.

The New Testament depicts Jesus as a creature, not a deity. He is not eternal; he was born of a virgin. He is not self-existent; his parents sustained his life when he was young. He is not "simple," i.e., unchanging; he grew in wisdom. He is not all-powerful: the Father performed the miracles. He is not all-knowing; only the Father knows the times and epochs. He is not ever-present everywhere because he walks around from city to city. At his resurrection, it was said of him, "He is NOT here; He is risen."

So then, it isn't true that Jesus is ontologically God; Rather, the New Testament teaches us that Jesus is representationally God.